Did we do enough at wide receiver?

[LABILLBACKER]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:40 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think I see what Beane is trying to do with WRs. A great ability to have is unpredictability. It's good to have the ability to spread the ball around, find the mismatches and exploit them. 

 

However, I'm kind of tired of the constant questions at WR. Last year was "hoping" Sheffield and Harty were more than they had ever been. They weren't. Or "hoping" John Brown or Cole Beasley could be brought back mid season and regain their past play. They didn't. "Hoping" Gabe Davis could take the step to be a consistent #2 WR and possibly one day a #1. He couldn't. So on and so forth.

 

I get it, not every spot can be filled with an NFL All-Pro. Role players are useful. Just once though I would love to have more answers than questions at WR. This year it's "How will Coleman fit?" It's "Man, maybe Shavers or Short can step up". "Can Andy Isabella have a late age growth spurt and make it to 5'5" tall?" "Can KJ Hamler (who I do think at least has some potential skill) stop doing Marquise Goodwin impressions?"

 

Just one year can we not have Josh Allen throwing to the Island of the Misfit Toys?

I will always go on record as saying it was imperative to double dip in last week's wr rich draft. We won't see that deep of a wr draft for awhile. And all of this is amplified by losing Diggs/Davis.  We had realistic bites at the apple with Thomas, Mitchell, Leggette,  McConkey,  Franklin & Walker.  I'll give Keon the benefit of the doubt and completely ignore his 40.  I've been told by half this board that 40 times are irrelevant. But we still needed that 2nd rookie wr. If for no other reason as insurance if Hollins, Hamler, Shorter, Shavers, Cephus flame out. We all saw how useless Sherfield and Harty were last season. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, amprov56 said:

Your wrong as usual, Diggs could not carry Andre Reeds jock strap, your a Doctor, come on!

Lol...I don't feel like arguing as I'm trying to be positive. Just will list dispassionate stats.

Andre never  had back to back 1000 yard seasons. He was a great great player. Tough and excellent run after catch.

 

But what Diggs did in his four years here was better than any WR in Bills history. His reception totals per season are the four highest. He had the top two yards in a seson and 4 of the top 12. Andre's top yards in a season were 5th and 6th and those are the only two in the top 12. 

 

Of course Andre did it longer. Different era. Rice Brown Irvin and several others of his contemporaries were as good or better. Yada yada yada

 

They are both great and I'm still sad Diggs is gone

 

I'm moving on though

 

Go Bills 

 

 

[amprov56]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lol...I don't feel like arguing as I'm trying to be positive. Just will list dispassionate stats.

Andre never  had back to back 1000 yard seasons. He was a great great player. Tough and excellent run after catch.

 

But what Diggs did in his four years here was better than any WR in Bills history. His reception totals per season are the four highest. He had the top two yards in a seson and 4 of the top 12. Andre's top yards in a season were 5th and 6th and those are the only two in the top 12. 

 

Of course Andre did it longer. Different era. Rice Brown Irvin and several others of his contemporaries were as good or better. Yada yada yada

 

They are both great and I'm still sad Diggs is gone

 

I'm moving on though

 

Go Bills 

 

 

In ten years, Andre will be the only one in the HOF, sorry, Im not arguing either, just stating facts!

9 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lol...I don't feel like arguing as I'm trying to be positive. Just will list dispassionate stats.

Andre never  had back to back 1000 yard seasons. He was a great great player. Tough and excellent run after catch.

 

But what Diggs did in his four years here was better than any WR in Bills history. His reception totals per season are the four highest. He had the top two yards in a seson and 4 of the top 12. Andre's top yards in a season were 5th and 6th and those are the only two in the top 12. 

 

Of course Andre did it longer. Different era. Rice Brown Irvin and several others of his contemporaries were as good or better. Yada yada yada

 

They are both great and I'm still sad Diggs is gone

 

I'm moving on though

 

Go Bills 

 

 

Oh ya, Andre was a great teammate!

[BuffaloBillyG]

28 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I will always go on record as saying it was imperative to double dip in last week's wr rich draft. We won't see that deep of a wr draft for awhile. And all of this is amplified by losing Diggs/Davis.  We had realistic bites at the apple with Thomas, Mitchell, Leggette,  McConkey,  Franklin & Walker.  I'll give Keon the benefit of the doubt and completely ignore his 40.  I've been told by half this board that 40 times are irrelevant. But we still needed that 2nd rookie wr. If for no other reason as insurance if Hollins, Hamler, Shorter, Shavers, Cephus flame out. We all saw how useless Sherfield and Harty were last season. 

I get what you're saying and agree with a lot of it. I absolutely get the thought process. 

 

The main place where I'll zig where your zag is with the bolded. It seems just going off the top of my head I've heard...I'll say 3 out of the last 5 years that the "WR class is special this year. We may not see one like this for a long long time" and then wash/rinse/repeat a year or two later. 

 

It really does seem the college game is producing NFL caliber WRs at a pretty good clip. 

 

The other thing that at least makes sense in my mind is that while Beane pretty much flat out said there would be no WR trade anytime in the foreseeable future...we have a LOT of draft picks for 2025. It's plausible to me that if the WR room is hampering the offense early this year, he may move that extra second rounder for a proven guy. He has made trade deadline moves the last 2 years. 

[soflabillsfan1]

Why do people think Shorter is going to do anything?  He wasn't even good in college.  The last time he was anything, was high school.

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Lol...I don't feel like arguing as I'm trying to be positive. Just will list dispassionate stats.

Andre never  had back to back 1000 yard seasons. He was a great great player. Tough and excellent run after catch.

 

But what Diggs did in his four years here was better than any WR in Bills history. His reception totals per season are the four highest. He had the top two yards in a seson and 4 of the top 12. Andre's top yards in a season were 5th and 6th and those are the only two in the top 12. 

 

Of course Andre did it longer. Different era. Rice Brown Irvin and several others of his contemporaries were as good or better. Yada yada yada

 

They are both great and I'm still sad Diggs is gone

 

I'm moving on though

 

Go Bills 

 

 

The game has changed a lot since Andre played. Andre now would have matched Diggs production especially with Allen. The bills were more balanced back then too I believe with Thurman.

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Cash said:

Good call bringing up MLB.  I was among the many who were shocked all offseason that they weren't adding more... then it turned out Bernard was really good, and I think the Bills knew it was a matter of when, not if for Bernard.

 

Any chance we've got one of those in the WR room already?

• Mack Hollins - No way.  He might be a nice addition in terms of attitude, etc, and maybe he can show the young guys the right way to work, but if he was gonna be a thing, it would've happened before he got here.
• Andy Isabella - Let's be real, people.  Isabella is very fast, and he's the same size/skin color as a lot of our fans, and it's always fun to root for someone who looks like you.  But he can't change direction at an NFL level - he can't run routes, can't return kicks, can't make anyone miss.  He's had plenty of chances and there is no breakout coming.
• Justin Shorter - I'll believe it when I see it, and not a second sooner.  When the #1 selling point of an NFL player is his recruiting rank out of high school, I tune out.  (This is also why I was never sold on Trevor Lawrence as a "generational" QB prospect - I never once saw an argument for him as generational that didn't prominently feature his recruiting rank from 3 years prior.  Who cares???)  The track record for "top HS recruit who doesn't do much in college" is pretty weak IMO.  Robert Foster had a few nice games when we were beyond desperate, but ultimately was not an NFL receiver.
• Tyrell Shavers - On their last podcast, Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot noted that Beane mentioned Shavers before Shorter when talking about how they like the guys in the room.  And IIRC, Beane also made a point of saying Shavers has been in the building almost every day in the offseason.  This is a longshot, but it's not completely crazy.  Like with Shorter, I'll believe it when I see it, but there is some precedent for super hard-working undrafted WR to develop into a legit player.  And depending on what Shavers is doing in the building every day, it's possible the coaching staff knows that they've got something there.
• KJ Hamler - Beane talked him up a bit in his last presser as well.  I think it's about 95% chance that he's just a bust a la Andy Isabella.  But given Hamler's injuries, there's a chance he could still turn it around.  Again, I'll believe it when I see it.
• Quintez Cephus - including him even though he wasn't "in the room" yet during Beane's press conference, but he's the guy Beane said they were about to sign.  Even before the gambling suspension, he wasn't anything special.  I wouldn't be shocked if he makes the team as backup X receiver or something, but I would be extremely shocked if he broke out.

 

Of these guys, I'd say Shavers and Hamler are the only ones with a realistic chance of a Bernard-like season in 2024, with maybe an outside outside shot for Shorter.  Of course, we don't have the info we need to make a real guess, but hopefully the coaching staff has a better idea based on seeing guys work in the offseason.

 

Good post. 
 

The bottom line is Beane has a mixed track record with the out come of these kind of statements (or with just putting players who have been in a secondary role, into the lineup).  He made comments about Cody Ford being hampered by injuries and "his best football is ahead of him"; next training camp, Ford was traded away.  Nothing was said, but obviously Davis and McKenzie were expected to step up at WR in 2022; that didn't work out very well.  In contrast, MLB worked out splendidly and there have been some other instances - I think Beane expressing confidence in Damar after Hyde went down, and Damar played decently enough "until".

 

FWIW, I started a thread on this after Beane made a comment about "sometimes the answer is already on the roster" with a reference to last year's MLB situation.

Basically my conclusion is pretty much the same as yours, except I included Bryan Thompson, an UDFA last season who quietly spent last season on the PS, just as Shavers did. 

I do think KJ Hamler has a better set of physical tools to start with than Isabella did - longer arms, bigger hands, similar size and speed - but I think the real Achilles heel for both of them is lack of ball-tracking skills and hands.  And when a guy has been injured as repeatedly in different body parts (hammy, ACL, pec, pericarditis), you kind of got to wonder if his body is just not made to hold up to football.

I think it's notable that of the Isabella/Shorter/Shavers/Thompson pack, Isabella is the only one who got the call and spent time on the active roster last season.

 

As far as Coleman mentioning Hamler, Hamler attended IMG for HS and trained at EXOS pre-draft - so perhaps they encountered each other training in Florida?

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

The main place where I'll zig where your zag is with the bolded. It seems just going off the top of my head I've heard...I'll say 3 out of the last 5 years that the "WR class is special this year. We may not see one like this for a long long time" and then wash/rinse/repeat a year or two later. 

 

It really does seem the college game is producing NFL caliber WRs at a pretty good clip. 

 

I agree with questioning the concept that this WR class is a WR draft to end all drafts.  Two parts to that: 1) are the WR really all that and a bag of chips at the NFL level?  Experience suggests "maybe not"  2) is the class talent really something that won't be seen for years?

 

Example: 2018 was said to be one of the most talented QB classes in years.  5 QB were drafted in the 1st round.  2 were offered 2nd contracts, with a 3rd who has shown some ability to play.  2020, which seemed to have less fanfare, had 4 QB drafted in the 1st round and 1 in the second - of whom all 5 are still starting in the league and have shown the ability to play well, 2 having played in (and lost) the Superbowl.

 

Anyway, 2020 was a great year for WR with 6 drafted in the 1st, 2 more at the start of the 2nd; of those 7, the 1st and the 4th drafted didn't work out and the 2nd is only OK, maybe hampered by his QB.  2021 saw 5 drafted in the 1st, top 3 look great (drafted 5,6, and 10 overall) but so does some guy drafted midway thru the 4th.  2022 saw 6 drafted in the 1st plus another at the top of the 2nd.  Top 3 look great, but so does some guy drafted at #52, halfway through the 2nd.  

 

It just seems as though pretty deep talented WR drafts are coming along pretty regularly, and that drafts where one position is super-hyped may not wind up producing the expected number of successful NFL players.

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I will always go on record as saying it was imperative to double dip in last week's wr rich draft. We won't see that deep of a wr draft for awhile. And all of this is amplified by losing Diggs/Davis.  We had realistic bites at the apple with Thomas, Mitchell, Leggette,  McConkey,  Franklin & Walker.  I'll give Keon the benefit of the doubt and completely ignore his 40.  I've been told by half this board that 40 times are irrelevant. But we still needed that 2nd rookie wr. If for no other reason as insurance if Hollins, Hamler, Shorter, Shavers, Cephus flame out. We all saw how useless Sherfield and Harty were last season. 

 

I'm on record as agreeing that we did not do enough at WR.

 

I'm a little puzzled as how you see us having a realistic bite at Thomas, who was drafted at 23?  We'd have had to go up at least 6 slots - would Philly have been willing?  Detroit took a DB at 24 and Baltimore at 30 (so might have hopped up).  Then there's the cost - in Beane's 2 recent 1st round trades, it cost him a 4th rounder to move up 2 spots.  So what would we have had to pay for 6?  The trade value chart suggests maybe a 3rd round pick - we didn't have a 3rd round pick.  Our 2nd round pick, and maybe get a late 3rd or early 4th as change?  I don't know if that's realistic.  

 

And of course, there's the question of whether Thomas juice would have been worth that squeeze - sometimes when there are 2 or 3 really strong prospects, the 4th choice gets a bit of a "halo effect" bump-up (Kadarius Toney or Jameson Williams, anyone?)  

 

The bottom line is, the Bills didn't have Mitchell or Franklin high on their board, or maybe on their board at all.    We could have taken Leggette or McConkey sure, but that's instead of Coleman, not a double dip - and if we'd gone up for Thomas, we would have had probably no 2nd round pick so we're still not double dipping.

 

So who is our realistic double, that was apparently on our board?  Tez Walker we could have had - but not if we stayed pat in the 1st or traded up, because we wouldn't have had our 3rd rounder.  It's possible Beane tried to trade up in the 4th using some 5th round picks, and possible the reportedly "thin" draft left other GMs disinclined to trade.

 

And are we really persuaded, the 4th round talent in this draft is so very much better than last year, or next year?

 

I think there were guys Beane could have drafted in the later rounds, but I think it's a reasonable question if the late round talent was truly significantly better than previous years?

 

I understand your points, but at the same time it somewhat seems to me more like a different way of saying "Beane didn't trade up the way we wanted, or draft the guys we thought he should draft" vs. mapping out a path where Beane could realistically have traded up or kept our 1st round pick to draft one of those guys, AND made a double-dip that was early enough to be part of the clearly superior part of the WR talent.

Edited April 30 by Beck Water

[GASabresIUFan]

Other then injury replacements, do we really need any other receivers?  Last season our WR 4 & WR 5 had 21 & 22 targets  respectively.  In 2022 WR 4 had 20 targets and WR 5-9 had 30 targets total.  in 2021 Davis was WR 4 and had a banner year with 63 targets, McKenzie at WR 5 had 28.  

 

This coming season we already have 4 talented pass catchers and won't be relaying on the 4th WR to be Davis.  If I had to guess Kincaid, Coleman, Samuel & Shakir will take the vast majority of the targets (70 to 110 each) with Cook as the 5th most likely target (about 50-60 targets).  After them we have Knox who will see around 40 targets or more and Hollins who is perfectly capable of catching 30-40 balls as well if needed (he caught 57 w LVR in 2022).  So what do we really need beyond those 7 players?  That seems like more than enough depth for Josh.  

 

Shorter, Hamler, Cephus, and the rest of the cannon fodder are competing for the WR5 role, which is a nothing burger.  Over the last 5 years, the WR5 has averaged 23 targets a season.  Is this someone we are really worried about?

Edited April 30 by GASabresIUFan

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Other then injury replacements, do we really need any other receivers?  Last season our WR 4 & WR 5 had 21 & 22 targets  respectively.  In 2022 WR 4 had 20 targets and WR 5-9 had 30 targets total.  in 2021 Davis was WR 4 and had a banner year with 63 targets, McKenzie at WR 3 had 28.  

 

This coming season we already have 4 talented pass catchers and won't be relaying on the 4th WR to be Davis.  If I had to guess Kincaid, Coleman, Samuel & Shakir will take the vast majority of the targets (70 to 110 each) with Cook as the 5th most likely target (about 50-60 targets).  After them we have Knox who will see around 40 targets or more and Hollins who is perfectly capable of catching 30-40 balls as well if needed (he caught 57 w LVR in 2022).  So what do we really need beyond those 7 players?  That seems like more than enough depth for Josh.  

 

Shorter, Hamler, Cephus, and the rest of the cannon fodder are competing for the WR5 role, which is a nothing burger.  Over the last 5 years, the WR5 has averaged 23 targets a season.  Is this someone we are really worried about?

Well stated.  People just like to complain.

[MrEpsYtown]

Beane has talked a bunch about the new kickoff rules and how it could change your special teams corps a bit. It would seem that guys with super long arms are going to be more important than ever as they have to engage, disengage, and make a tackle. He mentioned this when talking about Olofosio with 32-inch arms as well as Javon Solomon with nearly 34 inch arms. Nicholas Morrow has freakishly long arms nearly 35. I just bring this up because it gives the Justin Shorters and Tyrell Shavers of the world a bit of an advantage in terms of how they can help on special teams. Cephus has long arms as well. 

 

I know that doesn't excite people, but the special teams corps is made up of Gilliam, linebackers, DBs and WRs so you do have to have depth receivers who can help on teams. At the end of the day, I do think they must really like Shorter or Shavers and I am guessing one of them makes the roster. 

 

ALso have to add Hollins to the list of long-armed guys who will be a factor on teams and is a deep threat. 

Edited April 30 by MrEpsYtown

[aristocrat]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Other then injury replacements, do we really need any other receivers?  Last season our WR 4 & WR 5 had 21 & 22 targets  respectively.  In 2022 WR 4 had 20 targets and WR 5-9 had 30 targets total.  in 2021 Davis was WR 4 and had a banner year with 63 targets, McKenzie at WR 3 had 28.  

 

This coming season we already have 4 talented pass catchers and won't be relaying on the 4th WR to be Davis.  If I had to guess Kincaid, Coleman, Samuel & Shakir will take the vast majority of the targets (70 to 110 each) with Cook as the 5th most likely target (about 50-60 targets).  After them we have Knox who will see around 40 targets or more and Hollins who is perfectly capable of catching 30-40 balls as well if needed (he caught 57 w LVR in 2022).  So what do we really need beyond those 7 players?  That seems like more than enough depth for Josh.  

 

Shorter, Hamler, Cephus, and the rest of the cannon fodder are competing for the WR5 role, which is a nothing burger.  Over the last 5 years, the WR5 has averaged 23 targets a season.  Is this someone we are really worried about?

 

Hollins has one season two years ago where he caught 57 balls. The next best season is a few with 16 grabs. We lost two receivers who combined for 15 tds on the year. We better hope Coleman can come in and replace Gabe's tds. Kincaid should be good for a few more and Samuel with a legit qb for the first time should put a good amount of tds.   I still think we need to add a vet wr outside like DJ Chark and we can really have an offense that can get into a shootout so we don't have to rely on Allen running so much. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Hollins has one season two years ago where he caught 57 balls. The next best season is a few with 16 grabs. We lost two receivers who combined for 15 tds on the year. We better hope Coleman can come in and replace Gabe's tds. Kincaid should be good for a few more and Samuel with a legit qb for the first time should put a good amount of tds.   I still think we need to add a vet wr outside like DJ Chark and we can really have an offense that can get into a shootout so we don't have to rely on Allen running so much. 

We need another vet who was a legit 1 or 2 to be a reliable option for Josh.  They don’t have to hold up the whole season, but you can’t rely on Shakir, Samuel, and a rookie Coleman to all step up their game not to mention injuries.  Hollins is another Sherfield.   If he’s one of your top 3 WR’s for any reason, we are screwed.  See Sherfield in KC playoff game.  I’m for bringing in OBJ to round out the WR room. 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Other then injury replacements, do we really need any other receivers?  Last season our WR 4 & WR 5 had 21 & 22 targets  respectively.  In 2022 WR 4 had 20 targets and WR 5-9 had 30 targets total.  in 2021 Davis was WR 4 and had a banner year with 63 targets, McKenzie at WR 3 had 28.  

 

This coming season we already have 4 talented pass catchers and won't be relaying on the 4th WR to be Davis.  If I had to guess Kincaid, Coleman, Samuel & Shakir will take the vast majority of the targets (70 to 110 each) with Cook as the 5th most likely target (about 50-60 targets).  After them we have Knox who will see around 40 targets or more and Hollins who is perfectly capable of catching 30-40 balls as well if needed (he caught 57 w LVR in 2022).  So what do we really need beyond those 7 players?  That seems like more than enough depth for Josh.  

 

Shorter, Hamler, Cephus, and the rest of the cannon fodder are competing for the WR5 role, which is a nothing burger.  Over the last 5 years, the WR5 has averaged 23 targets a season.  Is this someone we are really worried about?

 

I think we do need other receivers, yes.  It's a position at which injuries are common.  So far Shakir has been durable, but he's also not yet seen more than 50% of the snaps.  Samuel has been durable the last couple years but again, last year ~50% of the snaps.

 

Remember 2022 where the plan going into the season was evidently to platoon Crowder and McKenzie?  Then Crowder broke his leg, and it was all up to McKenzie.  That meant when Davis got dinged, we had Jake Kumerow, Isaiah Hodgins, and Tanner Gentry seeing playing time, and after we lost Isaiah Hodgins to an injury-crunch at DB waiver move and Kumerow went down, we were hauling Brown and Beas off the sofa (our WR equivalent of bringing in Klein).

 

So yes, I agree with you that last year's  bottom-of-roster WR and Cephus are competing for #5 and possibly #6 on the roster, but the quality of those guys can really make or break a season - just like the quality of the LB at the bottom of the depth chart.

 

And I'd really like an upgrade there.  I'd like to see Shakir-Coleman-Samuel-better receiver-Hollins-better receiver, albeit it's possible we only keep 5 WR on the roster and more TE depending upon what kind of offense Brady wants to run, in which case yeah, #6 is gonna have to be a guy we can keep on the practice squad.

 

But we still need one more guy, and not persuaded Quintez Cephus is The One rather than a chap competing for #6 with the rest of them.

 

I'm also not persuaded that Beane sees it that way, in which case Shades of 2019

Edited April 30 by Beck Water

[MasterStrategist]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think we do need other receivers, yes.  It's a position at which injuries are common.  So far Shakir has been durable, but he's also not yet seen more than 50% of the snaps.  Samuel has been durable the last couple years but again, last year ~50% of the snaps.

 

Remember 2022 where the plan going into the season was evidently to platoon Crowder and McKenzie?  Then Crowder broke his leg, and it was all up to McKenzie.  That meant when Davis got dinged, we had Jake Kumerow, Isaiah Hodgins, and Tanner Gentry seeing playing time, and after we lost Isaiah Hodgins to an injury-crunch at DB waiver move and Kumerow went down, we were hauling Brown and Beas off the sofa (our WR equivalent of bringing in Klein).

 

So yes, I agree with you that last year's  bottom-of-roster WR and Cephus are competing for #5 and possibly #6 on the roster, but the quality of those guys can really make or break a season - just like the quality of the LB at the bottom of the depth chart.

 

And I'd really like an upgrade there.  I'd like to see Shakir-Coleman-Samuel-better receiver-Hollins-better receiver, albeit it's possible we only keep 5 WR on the roster and more TE depending upon what kind of offense Brady wants to run, in which case yeah, #6 is gonna have to be a guy we can keep on the practice squad.

 

But we still need one more guy, and not persuaded Quintez Cephus is The One rather than a chap competing for #6 with the rest of them.

 

I'm also not persuaded that Beane sees it that way, in which case Shades of 2019

Agree with this.

 

Beane definitely sprinkles some "lies", along with truth.

 

Fairly certain, Beane will look to fill the WR4 role after June 1st.  Potentially DE as well, I'm concerned we don't gave a DE4 with run stopping/some pass rush.  Toohill/Solomon/Kingsley, run game is not a strong suit.  Ogbah would be a fit, if price is right.

 

Back to WR, I'm comfortable with Hollins as WR5/ST and if we keep 6, let Hamler/Shorter/Shavers/UDFA compete.

 

WR4 has to be a boundary/down field option. We don't need a star, nor am I expecting that, but a quality depth option.  MVS and Chark would fill that role.  Coleman is a rookie and will need some rampup time...I'm not confident that Shakir or Samuel take more than 50% snaps on the outside, let alone stay healthy all year.  

 

The thought of Hollins having to play significant snaps, due to injury/etc, is a depressing thought.  

 

Beane isn't giving his hand away, but he will definitely have $s after June 1 for MVS/Chark type.  Give MVS or Chark $6m on a 1 yr deal (but add a void yr to decrease 2024 cap to $3mish).  Along with a $3-4m type deal for Ogbah, potentially add a void year to his as well.  We will be in better cap position in 2025, so adding a $4-5m deferred dead cap won't break thr bank...especially compared to this yr.

 

 

[GASabresIUFan]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think we do need other receivers, yes.  It's a position at which injuries are common.  So far Shakir has been durable, but he's also not yet seen more than 50% of the snaps.  Samuel has been durable the last couple years but again, last year ~50% of the snaps.

 

Remember 2022 where the plan going into the season was evidently to platoon Crowder and McKenzie?  Then Crowder broke his leg, and it was all up to McKenzie.  That meant when Davis got dinged, we had Jake Kumerow, Isaiah Hodgins, and Tanner Gentry seeing playing time, and after we lost Isaiah Hodgins to an injury-crunch at DB waiver move and Kumerow went down, we were hauling Brown and Beas off the sofa (our WR equivalent of bringing in Klein).

 

So yes, I agree with you that last year's  bottom-of-roster WR and Cephus are competing for #5 and possibly #6 on the roster, but the quality of those guys can really make or break a season - just like the quality of the LB at the bottom of the depth chart.

 

And I'd really like an upgrade there.  I'd like to see Shakir-Coleman-Samuel-better receiver-Hollins-better receiver, albeit it's possible we only keep 5 WR on the roster and more TE depending upon what kind of offense Brady wants to run, in which case yeah, #6 is gonna have to be a guy we can keep on the practice squad.

 

But we still need one more guy, and not persuaded Quintez Cephus is The One rather than a chap competing for #6 with the rest of them.

 

I'm also not persuaded that Beane sees it that way, in which case Shades of 2019

If you are a quality FA are you coming here to be the 6th and possibly the 7th receiving option behind Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, Coleman, Cook and possibly Knox? I wouldn’t.
 

If you are Beane, are you really going to invest a large amount of your limited cap space on a guy who would enter camp at the 6th or 7th receiving option after you invested in Hollins, plus you have a rookie draft pick in Shorter plus 2 guys with NFL experience in Cephus and Hamler already on your roster?  I think it’s much more likely that Beane spends his cap on upgrading S.  Adding someone like Simmons would have much more impact on the team than adding a 6th/7th receiving option
 

Given what Beane did last season with Douglas and our extra 2nd and 4th in 2025, I’d expect Beane to acquire a quality receiver in trade if one of top 3 wide receivers went down with a long-term injury then spending money on a guy now and not really play him.

[Logic]

Revisiting this issue a few days later, it still comes down to this for me:

Being one injury away from Mack Hollins or Justin Shorter playing significant starting snaps on offense is just not ideal in any way, shape, or form. Depending on a 20 year old rookie to be productive out of the gate and to be one of your starting three WRs when you play as much 11 personnel as the Bills do is not ideal in any way, shape, or form.

They HAVE to get one more legit guy for this WR room. Have to. It's impossible for me to believe that Brandon Beane really thinks a Shaver/Shorter/Hamler/Isabella/Cephus is the answer to this problem. 

If so, it's hard for me to conclude anything other than that this WR corps has the potential to be the worst since 2019. 

I have my fingers tightly crossed that there will be a post June 1st move of some kind.

[harmonkillebrew]

18 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

The game has changed a lot since Andre played. Andre now would have matched Diggs production especially with Allen. The bills were more balanced back then too I believe with Thurman.

yeah, as much as the Bills were the high-flying K-GUN, Kelly never threw for more than 4,000 yds in a season, only over 3500 once.

Was a different game

5 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree with this.

 

Beane definitely sprinkles some "lies", along with truth.

 

Fairly certain, Beane will look to fill the WR4 role after June 1st.  Potentially DE as well, I'm concerned we don't gave a DE4 with run stopping/some pass rush.  Toohill/Solomon/Kingsley, run game is not a strong suit.  Ogbah would be a fit, if price is right.

 

Back to WR, I'm comfortable with Hollins as WR5/ST and if we keep 6, let Hamler/Shorter/Shavers/UDFA compete.

 

WR4 has to be a boundary/down field option. We don't need a star, nor am I expecting that, but a quality depth option.  MVS and Chark would fill that role.  Coleman is a rookie and will need some rampup time...I'm not confident that Shakir or Samuel take more than 50% snaps on the outside, let alone stay healthy all year.  

 

The thought of Hollins having to play significant snaps, due to injury/etc, is a depressing thought.  

 

Beane isn't giving his hand away, but he will definitely have $s after June 1 for MVS/Chark type.  Give MVS or Chark $6m on a 1 yr deal (but add a void yr to decrease 2024 cap to $3mish).  Along with a $3-4m type deal for Ogbah, potentially add a void year to his as well.  We will be in better cap position in 2025, so adding a $4-5m deferred dead cap won't break thr bank...especially compared to this yr.

 

 

Also interesting that we don't really have a mentor for Coleman.

There's no one on the roster that can help him learn the ropes as a #1 or outside, boundary WR.  Tricks of the trade etc... Samuel and Shakir are slot guys.

Maybe they'll bring in OBJ for that role alone

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Enough? On paper, no.