What do you think of when you see this pic?

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

This is wrong

Kelce was on HoF trajectory before playing w Mahomes

 

You can project that, but the fact is, Kelce had been in the league for 5 years and had 2 - 1000+ yd seasons before Mahomes took the reins.

 

Do you really want to try to make the argument that every 5th year player with 2 seasons with 80+ receptions and 1000+ yds is "on a HoF trajectory"?

Do you know how many receivers would be placed on that track with those parameters?

 

Mahomes took over and Kelce had an immediate bump - from 80+ to 100+ receptions, from 1000+ to 1200, 1300, 1400 yds.

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

You can project that, but the fact is, Kelce had been in the league for 5 years and had 2 - 1000+ yd seasons before Mahomes took the reins.

 

Do you really want to try to make the argument that every 5th year player with 2 seasons with 80+ receptions and 1000+ yds is "on a HoF trajectory"?

Do you know how many receivers would be placed on that track with those parameters?

 

Mahomes took over and Kelce had an immediate bump - from 80+ to 100+ receptions, from 1000+ to 1200, 1300, 1400 yds.

Do you realize he's a TE lol

 

Antonio Gates had two 1000yard seasons in a sixteen year career

Gronkowski and Gonzales both only had four 

 

[julian]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You can say anything you like, and stand by anything you like, but you need to bring some receipts to show that Andy Reid was regarded as a HOF offensive HC before Mahomes.  

 

Same with Kelce and Hill - they were regarded as talented, but factually Kelce had 1 - 1000+ yd season in 4 years before Mahomes was drafted.  That ain't the Highway to the Hall.   Similar with Hill - his rookie year, before Mahomes was drafted, 61 receptions for 595 yds.  They both had good years while Mahomes was 'watching and learning' on the bench his rookie season, but a single 1183 yd, 75 reception season for Hill and 2 1000+ yd seasons in 5 years does not make a HOF receiver.  

 

It's a bit of a strange "Hill to die on" for making your "factual statement" stake

What lol, do you believe Mahomes didn’t inherit a much more advantageous situation than Allen ?

 

 Hill to die on lol, it’s you on an island here if you believe Mahomes hasn’t been in the better situation from day 1.

 

 I can’t believe my original response to this thread is seen as not factual, it’s bizarre.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, julian said:

What lol, do you believe Mahomes didn’t inherit a much more advantageous situation than Allen ?

 

 Hill to die on lol, it’s you on an island here if you believe Mahomes hasn’t been in the better situation from day 1.

 

 I can’t believe my original response to this thread is seen as not factual, it’s bizarre.

It's not just you fwiw

I have no idea what they're talking about about

[muppy]

I don't honestly know enough about this guy to say much beyond what i've seen on the football field. I'm assuming they are claiming he is influential due to football success.

 

I think TIME magazine was going for controversial.  Not having read the thread yet Im assuming this pic has gone over like a lead balloon here at TBD

 

Influence, Influencer. yeah whatever. What did we all do before we had magazines and social media to tell us who we should be influenced by.

 

@-@ 

11 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Time is supposedly a global magazine. 

Mahomes is a sportsman and entertains  sports fans. His influence is in a sports world. In the grand scheme of things, with so many social and political things going on in the normal world, the importance of his zone of influence is miniscule. 

 

For Time to name him a top 100 influential person (of the world) is an indication of how far that magazine has fallen. 

BINGO

[Wizard]

I think of Mike Tyson's voice being married to a female horse. 🤔

 

 

[90sBills]

56 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You can say anything you like, and stand by anything you like, but you need to bring some receipts to show that Andy Reid was regarded as a HOF offensive HC before Mahomes.  

 

Same with Kelce and Hill - they were regarded as talented, but factually Kelce had 1 - 1000+ yd season in 4 years before Mahomes was drafted.  That ain't the Highway to the Hall.   Similar with Hill - his rookie year, before Mahomes was drafted, 61 receptions for 595 yds.  They both had good years while Mahomes was 'watching and learning' on the bench his rookie season, but a single 1183 yd, 75 reception season for Hill and 2 1000+ yd seasons in 5 years does not make a HOF receiver.  

 

It's a bit of a strange "Hill to die on" for making your "factual statement" stake

Very well stated. I don’t know why some fans get triggered at the mentioned of Mahomes turning the fate of KC from good playoffs team to what they are today. I guess they feel in some way acknowledging that is a slight towards Allen. When in reality Mahomes being what he is and Allen being great for the Bills are independent of each other.

[BADOLBILZ]

39 minutes ago, julian said:

You’re arguing that Andy Reid isn’t an excellent HC , a HOF HC who’s light years ahead of McDermott, which was the point I made with my original response to the question about the picture, it was in fun, but nothing I said wasn’t true.

 

 I made a factual statement, Mahomes lucked his way into 2 HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC, while Allen lucked into McDermott.

 

 I’ll stand by that.

You are serious, I can tell lol, there’s no reasoning with this take my goodness lol

 

if people actually believe Mahomes hasn’t benefited from a great situation compared to what Allen was blessed with.. There’s nothing else to say lol

 

 

It's not "factual"........because it wasn't "luck".   

 

Mahomes made it possible.   Without a truly great QB, Kelce and Hill are more likely to have finished in the Hall of "Good" along with a guy like Eric Moulds who has never really sniffed the HOF.

 

Pre-Mahomes Andy Reid was 11-13 career in the playoffs and 1-4 in conference championship games.    Then he got upset WITH Mahomes in his first title game.   Obviously Reid is the only HC to blow an 18 point lead or greater in the playoffs more than once.   And he did it thrice!

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's not "factual"........because it wasn't "luck".   

 

Mahomes made it possible.   Without a truly great QB, Kelce and Hill are more likely to have finished in the Hall of "Good" along with a guy like Eric Moulds who has never really sniffed the HOF.

 

Pre-Mahomes Andy Reid was 11-13 career in the playoffs and 1-4 in conference championship games.    Then he got upset WITH Mahomes in his first title game.   Obviously Reid is the only HC to blow an 18 point lead or greater in the playoffs more than once.   And he did it thrice!

I won't speak for Reid, but Kelce was averaging almost 1000yards a season w Alex Smith...Hill has two absolutely elite seasons in Miami w Tua post KC...the argument that they aren't two all time greats w/out Mahomes doesn't hold water

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So tell me - what's your take on McDermott?  Is he good enough to win one, with mostly bad luck?  He's had 2 playoff losses against the eventual conf. champs and 1 conf. champ loss?  How do you decide what is "bad luck" (injuries to key players, maybe 1-2 penalty calls that don't go your way or a mistake), and what is "not good enough", and be sure it isn't "hindsight bias" now that Reid has achieved what he has with Mahomes in KC?

 

'Cuz at the time, I can promise there were plenty in Philly and elsewhere in the league who weren't saying "Reid is good enough to win one, it's mostly bad luck".

I do think there had been some bad luck along the way. I've never seen a team get ravaged with injuries as bad as we have the last 2 years. Yes, injuries happen to every team but when it's all mainly on one said of the ball, it takes a toll. I think the Hamlin thing took it's toll on the team in 22 as well and put the nail in their season. Outside of 13 seconds, I don't think everything that has went wrong was in McDermott's control. And as far as Andy Reid having bad luck. I say yes, he had QBs that were good enough, to get him to the playoffs, just not over the final hurdle with Mahomes. I've never seen a guy have some much success with average to mediocre QB play as much as Andy Reid did and took it about as far as he could. If he even had a QB a little bit better than McNabb, he probably wins a ring or 2 in Philly. And he squeezed as much as he could get out of Alex Smith to but again, I don't think anyone on the planet wad winning a Super Bowl with Alex Smith as QB but yet Andy Reid got the most put of Alex Smith of anyone in Smith's career. All it took for Reid was they final push he needed with a QB like Mahomes and he finally got there. What McDermott has had with Allen and not done anything with, is nowhere near the comparison of Andy Reid had to deal with in Philly and KC before Mahomes because he never had a QB of that caliber. McDermott does. And if we can stay healthy for once all season, maybe things can he a little different 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

14 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

 

 

 

Dad?

[BullBuchanan]

GOAT.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Do you realize he's a TE lol

 

Antonio Gates had two 1000yard seasons in a sixteen year career

Gronkowski and Gonzales both only had four 

 

 

There's no talkin'

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I won't speak for Reid, but Kelce was averaging almost 1000yards a season w Alex Smith...Hill has two absolutely elite seasons in Miami w Tua post KC...the argument that they aren't two all time greats w/out Mahomes doesn't hold water

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree.    If the Chiefs don't get to Mahomes and Reid gets fired after blowing that 18 point lead at home to Mike Mularkey and Marcus Mariotta then who knows which way the Kelce/Hill careers go.    They weren't moving the needle.    I mean, it's false to claim that the Chiefs were seen as loaded with playmakers before Mahomes arrived.   They signed Watkins because even the Chiefs didn't think they had a WR1.   Mahomes changed the perspective on Kelce, Hill and Reid.   He made a lot of Chiefs players household names.

[julian]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I won't speak for Reid, but Kelce was averaging almost 1000yards a season w Alex Smith...Hill has two absolutely elite seasons in Miami w Tua post KC...the argument that they aren't two all time greats w/out Mahomes doesn't hold water

Hill has the Dolphins front office about to pay Tua 50+ mill lol, to suggest having Hill on the team when Mahomes showed up wasn’t an incredible advantage that Allen never had is crazy talk.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree.    If the Chiefs don't get to Mahomes and Reid gets fired after blowing that 18 point lead at home to Mike Mularkey and Marcus Mariotta then who knows which way the Kelce/Hill careers go.    They weren't moving the needle.    I mean, it's false to claim that the Chiefs were seen as loaded with playmakers before Mahomes arrived.   They signed Watkins because even the Chiefs didn't think they had a WR1.   Mahomes changed the perspective on Kelce, Hill and Reid.   He made a lot of Chiefs players household names.

Hill has back to back seasons of 119 catches and 1700+ with crap at QB in Miami. He is perfectly suited to the modern game and the lack of physicality in coverage. He is one of a few guys who in the 90s would have hardly stuck in the league as a a gadget guy if at all but today he is as elite as it gets at the game's second most important position. These guys show that the game has changed more than many fans care to admit IMO.

[bmur66]

I need a bucket

[Fleezoid]

They still print magazines??

[Fr. Jerk]

So many kids are rocking that haircut now. I don't dig.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Hill has back to back seasons of 119 catches and 1700+ with crap at QB in Miami. He is perfectly suited to the modern game and the lack of physicality in coverage. He is one of a few guys who in the 90s would have hardly stuck in the league as a a gadget guy if at all but today he is as elite as it gets at the game's second most important position. These guys show that the game has changed more than many fans care to admit IMO.

 

I'm not disputing that Hill isn't great now.   But he wasn't great before Mahomes.   Those guys were losing at home in the playoffs to the likes of Mike Mularkey and Marcus Mariotta despite having a QB who was considered a top 10-12 QB in the league at the very least.   They didn't have "IT" until Mahomes arrived.  

 

The Chiefs stuck with Hill thru a period of his life when he was liable to punch a pregnant women in the stomach or break his sons arm.   He could have easily washed out of the league if he were with other less-tolerant franchises or had even just had his career disrupted by suspensions or trades earlier in his development to places he didn't fit.  A LOT had to go right to get Hill to the past two seasons.    Even then,  there is the feeling that he could Antonio-Brown himself out of the league at any minute because he is still always a person of interest in some legal matter.  

 

 If Hill never plays another down do the pro football writer's ever vote him into the HOF?   No.  We can say that with certainty.  10K yards is a long way from the bar as an accumulator nowadays.   And don't forget,  he's not a 3 time SB winner.   He left KC and the team won 2 SB's.