The criticism of Josh Allen

[Professor Worthington]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Why do you pretend that this is an “either-or” situation? The team leaders set the standards and expectations. Among players Allen is far and away the Bills’ most influential leader. 

Where did I write “either-or”?  You’re making incorrect assumptions.  I’m all for Josh coaching up players and setting high expectations.  That doesn’t change the fact that someone other than 17 needs to be on the team who plays at an elite level.

[BarleyNY]

10 minutes ago, Professor Worthington said:

Where did I write “either-or”?  You’re making incorrect assumptions.  I’m all for Josh coaching up players and setting high expectations.  That doesn’t change the fact that someone other than 17 needs to be on the team who plays at an elite level.

 

If that’s really what you think, then you should stop lambasting people who question Allen’s change in off-season regimen and say that he should work harder to improve and stay sharp. No one here has said that the rest of the roster or coaching should not be doing the same. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 4/1/2024 at 9:21 PM, Mister Defense said:

Hey, are you almost done with the information I and others requested to back up your original post?

 

Seems like it should be extremely easy for you to find, as you actually quoted some of it.

 

Looking forward to you providing the details, evidence, you mention, so that we can more realistically and adequately answer the questions you pose in your OP.

 

Thanks in advance, once again, for getting that information out asap, info that was clearly needed in the original post. But, better late than never!

 

Otherwise you merely smear our quarterback with BS nonsense, when you propose to be defending him...

 

If you had any doubt before, look at all the anti-Allen crap coming out since the Diggs trade. 
 

Edit: sure didn’t affect Mahomes when Tyreek Hill left 

Edited April 10 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Mister Defense]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

If you had any doubt before, look at all the anti-Allen crap coming out since the Diggs trade. 
 

Edit: sure didn’t affect Mahomes when Tyreek Hill left 

 

 

So, no information, facts, details forthcoming.

 

Instead, more of the same--what does this post mean, what are you speaking of, specifically??

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

If you had any doubt before, look at all the anti-Allen crap coming out since the Diggs trade. 
 

Edit: sure didn’t affect Mahomes when Tyreek Hill left 

 

FWIW, I share @Mister Defense's question about where and what is this anti-Allen criticism?  Don't tell me it's all over, show me what you mean.

 

Thanks.

[Thrivefourfive]

We don’t want Josh to dip when that opportunity presents itself. Something is going to have to happen in a Bills uniform very soon for him to feel like he’s got a foot in the ground of this city and football community. I don’t think he’s there yet, so that’s an unknown that itches me.
 

Obviously, a Super Bowl win and we’re all happy. But if he doesn’t have some unique game or season or playoff win, or a streak or something more than what’s already been a brilliant statistical career,, I’m a little concerned. What’s going to make him say that he wants to retire a Buffalo Bill? 
 

If he goes 15 years without a Super Bowl win here in Buffalo, I’ll be okay because the alternative would be quarterback searching. Basically, I want Josh to get this done. And I don’t want a lack of appreciation from true Bills fans to screw that up. 

[Goin Breakdown]

46 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

We don’t want Josh to dip when that opportunity presents itself. Something is going to have to happen in a Bills uniform very soon for him to feel like he’s got a foot in the ground of this city and football community. I don’t think he’s there yet, so that’s an unknown that itches me.
 

Obviously, a Super Bowl win and we’re all happy. But if he doesn’t have some unique game or season or playoff win, or a streak or something more than what’s already been a brilliant statistical career,, I’m a little concerned. What’s going to make him say that he wants to retire a Buffalo Bill? 
 

If he goes 15 years without a Super Bowl win here in Buffalo, I’ll be okay because the alternative would be quarterback searching. Basically, I want Josh to get this done. And I don’t want a lack of appreciation from true Bills fans to screw that up. 

I agree here. I've thought about this before and wondered if there is anytime soon that the fan base turns on Josh or at least the loud online crowd. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

FWIW, I share @Mister Defense's question about where and what is this anti-Allen criticism?  Don't tell me it's all over, show me what you mean.

 

Thanks.

I’m not going to screen shot every comment I see. A ton of people here agree that Allen has been criticized allover social media. Anybody that spends a decent amount of time online reading tweets, FB/IG, and reads articles are aware of this. A lot of journalists have held onto their hate since Allen was drafted because they ended looking so stupid afterwards. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I’m not going to screen shot every comment I see. A ton of people here agree that Allen has been criticized allover social media. Anybody that spends a decent amount of time online reading tweets, FB/IG, and reads articles are aware of this. A lot of journalists have held onto their hate since Allen was drafted because they ended looking so stupid afterwards. 

 

OK, I read articles, but I don't have Twitter or IG or Tiktok accounts so I spend very little time online. The only social media I have is Facebook, and I use it to stay in contact with rellies and friends and some local or hobbie groups.

 

So I'm honestly asking.  You don't have to screenshot every comment you see, but some general insight rather than "trust me it's out there", would be helpful.

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I’m not going to screen shot every comment I see. A ton of people here agree that Allen has been criticized allover social media. Anybody that spends a decent amount of time online reading tweets, FB/IG, and reads articles are aware of this. A lot of journalists have held onto their hate since Allen was drafted because they ended looking so stupid afterwards. 

 

 

Lol

 

So, nothing! You have nothing, again, to back your statement--just a bunch of general nonsense?

 

Yikes, and almost funny--if this exact kind of behavior wasn't becoming a way of life for about 30% of Americans.

 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

Lol

So, nothing! You have nothing, again, to back your statement--just a bunch of general nonsense?

Yikes, and almost funny--if this exact kind of behavior wasn't becoming a way of life for about 30% of Americans.

 

I mean, I'm sure criticism is out there - always is, somewhere - but the OP was pretty specific in his OP post:

 

"the criticism of Josh Allen by the media and non-Bills fans seems to be the trend this offseason. He’s getting the label of a guy that can’t and never will get it done. A “poor man’s Roethlisberger” or Phillip Rivers (who I think he’s already surpassed in 6 years.) Guys like Lamar Jackson get flack, but the flat out hating of Allen has been absolutely ridiculous lately and it’s everywhere"

 

I tried googling those terms and the first hit I got was a reddit post "This week's match-up is clearly amplifying the Roethlisberger comparisons, but I don't see it."
The second hit was OP's post on this board

The third was what seems like another bulletin board called "LetsRun.com "Josh Allen is Trash" dated JUST AFTER THE 1st JETS GAME where his play ...looked like it.

 

The fourth was a positive article on the board "Steelers Depot" titled "Josh Allen 'very humbled' to be named in the same conversation as Ben Roethlisberger' "

 

It's just pretty disappointing to ask for examples and get Strawman responses like "I'm not going to screenshot every comment I see".  No one asked this, but if it's everywhere, coming up with, say, 3 or 4 links that seem representative doesn't seem like too big of an ask.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Beck Water

[Aimee75]

I am also lowkey terrified he may want to dip as well. Suddenly he seems to be turning into a scapegoat and I feel like people need to point their fingers somewhere, so why not him?

 

The off season stuff is wild to me. He always delivers during the season, and yes, I realize turnovers are a problem and it would be great if he could cut those down, but he's a risk taker. I don't think working out more in the off season is going to change his game that much. He puts his body through brutal punishment. He had a UCL injury in 2022 and instead of sitting out for four weeks, he got plasma injections and played through it. He leg could almost be severed off and he would still fight to stay on the field. He went into a blue tent a few times last season, with a shoulder injury, and still played through it. He puts his own body through a lot in the regular season. He is about to turn 28. If he wants to heal mentally and physically in the off season, I am not mad at it. On the surface maybe it looks like he doesn't care as much as other players out there, but that doesn't mean it's true. Life is short and he, like all the players, have limited time to spend time with loved ones, traveling, doing things they love before the season begins again. 

 

Again, I am not saying he can't do more,or that he is above constructive criticism, but I think going after him is not the answer. He has pretty much been asked to put the team on his back since he got here and often does, but this year is going to be even harder. Considering what he puts his body through during the season and playoffs, he could grow to be a little resentful to this market if he is being nitpicked at over his off season regime.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

 

Lol

 

So, nothing! You have nothing, again, to back your statement--just a bunch of general nonsense?

 

Yikes, and almost funny--if this exact kind of behavior wasn't becoming a way of life for about 30% of Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

Knock yourself out, buddy. This is what I found in 3 minutes of searching. 

 

Everybody here knows how much Allen has been criticized about being a turnover machine despite those interceptions usually not having an effect on the Bills winning games. Their record for the past 5 years speaks for itself. 
 

What’s really funny is you judging me because of a disagreement on a message board. 

[Fan in San Diego]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:28 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Based on?

PFF has Josh Ranked #1 for 2023

 

[dma0034]

Allen would make any team not named the Chiefs better immediately today (and maybe even the Chiefs with his running ability). 

 

This all happened because everyone had him as a bust coming out of college, especially going to Buffalo, and then he becomes elite so they change their views and looks like the best QB in the league on the Pats/Chiefs playoffs and then fails to get past Burrow and Mahomes so now all those people who named him as a bust are trying to validate what they said: you know coming out of college there were questions about accuracy and could he win the big game. Peyton got a ton of grief too until he won one (and ended up having a winning record vs Brady in the playoffs). I can see that for Allen too, they'll get past the Chiefs once and it's over (unfortunately I think the Bills will need a new coach though)

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

 

 

 

Knock yourself out, buddy. This is what I found in 3 minutes of searching. 

 

Everybody here knows how much Allen has been criticized about being a turnover machine despite those interceptions usually not having an effect on the Bills winning games. Their record for the past 5 years speaks for itself. 
 

What’s really funny is you judging me because of a disagreement on a message board. 

 

I don't want to appear ungrateful, since you did follow through, and I realize you're not talking to me but:

1) your first link is apparently "just a guy" named Skap Attack who says he provides "Essays, arguments, fact checks, parodies and ***** talk".  Does anyone care what a JAG with 39k subscribers, providing "parodies and ***** talk" says?

2) your 2nd link is a JAG called "Bills Bunker" with 4k subscribers who evidently hunted up a bunch of negative talk about Allen he could object to?

3) First Things First and Nick Wrong are long time Josh Allen Haters (and I'm not one who uses the word lightly); any criticism they have is Business as Usual for the last 7 years, Nothing to See Here, Move Along

4) "Get Up" on NFL Network with Kimberley Martin, Mel Kiper Jr., Louis Riddick and Field Yates have 419 subscribers (a more reasonable # to pay attention to) and seem to be more nuanced discussing Josh.  Is there some criticism?  Yes.  As a scientist, I want to kind of reach through the screen and give them a little shake while I chant "Correlation is Not Causation" in their ears about 300 times.  And the first guy (Riddick?) who said Josh is not going to have the same stats he did last season without a material addition to their WR room, which hopefully we'll get through the draft, is probably correct!

I had a good laugh when the host said next season, in November when the Bills are 5-5 we'd have a bar "what's wrong with Josh Allen?" because of course, WITH Stefon Diggs, the Bills were 5-5 this November.  I liked Mel Kiper saying " I don't think the sky is falling" mentioning Kincaid, Shakir, Knox, Curtis Samuel, Cook, and a draft pick".  Then it was pointed out by Field Yates, 13 games without Diggs >100 yds vs. Lou saying, Diggs was having an impact just being on the field, vs Kiper saying "look, the #1 receiver's job is to be the #1 receiver, not just to be on the field opening things for other guys". 

 

I thought it was actually a pretty good balanced discussion. 

If this is what ya got as far as widespread critique of Josh Allen it's either 1) by JAGS 2) by a known extremist Allen Hater Nick Wright or 3) Huh, a lot of good points back and forth, except for the ijit who kept talking about "if the Bills are 5-5 in November" without recognizing that hey, the Bills WERE 5-5 in November in 2023 WITH Stefon Diggs.

I don't agree with the statement "despite those interceptions usually not having an effect on the Bills winning games".   

Anyway, thanks for providing some info.  You said "by the media and non-Bills fans seems to be the trend this offseason. He’s getting the label of a guy that can’t and never will get it done".  The non-Wrong media you sampled here was actually pretty fair I thought.  As for the JAG "non bills fans" in your first sample, Explain to me Why I Care.

Edited April 11 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

OK, now if you want to find criticism of Josh Allen, Florio of PFT just rips his leadership to shreds.  This seems like as good a place as any to put this.

 

My jaw dropped.  Wait, wait, hear me out here.

 

Prior context, About 9:30 in:

Simms: "Everything I know from some people in the league there ....this was a mutual parting of ways.  That much I do kinda know.  Both sides were done with each other.  Now, to your point......Buffalo is obviously so annoyed and couldn't deal with it any more, that they were willing to give away a #1 receiver for next year's 2025 2nd round pick and take a $31M cap charge?  That needs to be in blinking lights.  That tells you how sick they were of Stefon Diggs. [Simms goes on about this for a while.  Note that Joe Buscaglia, who is very in to cold hard facts of cap and trade value, thinks the Bills got a fair or even a good deal for an almost-31 yr old WR]
Florio: "Well, it's their (the Bills) own fault, it's their own fault.  They knew what they were getting.  They knew they were getting a guy, who if you don't handle him a certain way he's not going to be happy.  And he has a way of pressing YOUR buttons, until you get to a point of 'FINE, let's move ON! And at the end of the day, he got what he wanted."

Simms: "I don't know how you can say it's their fault though.  I don't know how you can say that."

Florio: "Because they knew what they were getting, they knew that they were getting a guy who potentially was going to Wear Them Out."

Simms: "I don't know how you can say that.  By all due accounts, the Bills did everything they could, Josh Allen, the team itself, to make it work for Stefon Diggs.  Nobody has had the ball thrown to them more in the last 4 seasons, than Stefon Diggs.  I mean, they made him the guy, just feed him everything, all the time.  Yeah, you know what you're getting into there, and hopefully Houston lucks out and gets a different Stefon Diggs who realizes 'wait, I'm not a top-5 or top 10 talent any more, I am getting up there in age a little bit, and if I keep having these antics, nobody's gonna want me any more.  I would hope that helps him and his approach to things."

[Yes and no, Simms.  Stefon Diggs is in no way not acknowledging he's not a top-5 or 10 talent any more.  And he was a great teammate his first 2 years in Buffalo, so sure, he'll be good in Houston for a single year.  Count on it.]

Florio at 12:30 in: "Antics is the key word.  You're acknowledging there are things about Stefon Diggs that need to change.  So, what a team can do is either come up with a plan for changing him and implement it effectively, or get to a point where they say 'we can't take him any more'.  So the Bills, knowing or should have known, they're getting a guy you have to tread a little lightly with, and it's going to get difficult.  What is our plan for when it gets difficult?  What is our plan to coax him to mature into something else than what he's been? Where he WILL rush out of the locker room without talking to reporters?  Where he WILL gesture in the face of Josh Allen on the sideline during a 27-10 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals"

Simms: "Those are the things where I'm gonna blame Stefon Diggs a little bit there.  I mean, just looking at it from outside, the year was great, all of a sudden he's mad in a playoff game because he didn't get the ball enough [Fact: 4 receptions on 10 targets, led the Bills in targets by a lot] and then the offseason became a disaster...I don't know the details or the fighting or the conversations that went on there and I'm not trying to act like I do"

Florio: "Hang on.  We've talked about this before.  You know what Josh Allen needs to do in that moment [when Diggs is yelling at him on the sideline]?  He needs to throw off his vest, he needs to stand up, he needs to grab Stefon Diggs, and they need to go have a conversation, and he needs to tell Stefon Diggs what's what.  [yells over Simms, tells anecdote about Warren Moon going to Cris Carter, "you pull that ***** again and I'm never going to throw you the ball again as long as I'm the quarterback of this team, do you got it?"]  I love Josh Allen, you love Josh Allen, you call him 'Boy Blue'.  Sometimes I think he goes through life as an overgrown boy and doesn't really embrace what it means to be the Quarterback of the Team and I think that's what a lot of this is, Chris; I think this is Josh Allen being positioned, as he enters the back half of his prime, he's still in his prime, I think this is the Bills recognizing they have to put guys around Josh Allen that he's COMFORTABLE leading.  Because I think he's a big part of this.  And maybe nobody could properly get through to Stefon Diggs.  But I think that relationship was too much of Diggs doing whatever he wanted, saying whatever he wanted, and Josh Allen never calling him on it.  Not knowing how to do it.  Not wanting to do it. 'Cuz it's awkward.  A lot of people don't like confrontation.  
Simms: "No, and this is a guy that likes it [I think he means, Diggs likes confrontation] and if he [Allen] did that on the sideline, he [Diggs] would blow it up and make it worse and it would be a bigger spectacle.  And I think Josh Allen is smart enough to say 'you know what, if I go do what Mike Florio says right now, everyone's going to go crazy on this subject, and people are going to be saying Josh Allen can't handle his team and all that, Josh Allen is losing his cool at the end of a playoff game, hey, you can't lead your team.  That's just TALK, MIke, that's not really the reality of that way."

Florio: "Chris, Chris, Chris.  You can get him in the locker room and do it there"

Simms: " You don't know that he hasn't.  You don't know that"

Florio:  "I guarantee you he hasn't.  I guarantee you.  I guarantee you that never happened."

Simms: "Come On, Mike" (disgusted)

Florio: "We've never seen any hint.  We've never seen Josh Allen talk about it.  Josh Allen always has his back.  There's never been a hint of any effort, or any frustration, or any attempt by Josh Allen to take over that relationship.  That relationship was dominated by Stefon Diggs.  As long as Diggs got what he wanted eveyrthing was fine, and Josh Allen never pushed back against that disrespect that we've seen from time to time"

Simms: "You're ...you're"

Florio: "I'm making inferences based upon what we've seen"

Simms: "I know, and I'm just telling you, nobody ought to call out a player at a post game press conference" (said while Florio is talking over him and won't let him get a word in edgewise)  If he did that, you'd say he's a Bad Leader.  You're putting him in a no-win situation.  Who comes into a press conference and says that stuff?"

Florio: "Aaron Rodgers says it."
Simms: "When? As a team thing?  He never calls someone out..he says cryptically coded stuff. That's not a cool way to do it either, and YOU AGREE WITH THAT.  And that's why he's out of Green Bay, 'cuz everybody was sick of it.  Stop.  Stop!"

Florio: "Ok, you talk.  I won't talk until the break.  You take it over."

Simms: "Be a baby"

Florio: "I'm not being a baby"

Simms: "You are being a ***** baby"

Florio: "Let me talk"

Simms: "You talked a LOT.  Get out of here.  Shut up, ya baby."

Florio: "OK. See, this is what Josh Allen should do.  (Laughs)  I feel like, at the heart of this, there was a failure to manage Stefon Diggs."

Simms: "Sure."

Florio: "Whether it was  Josh Allen not managing it the way Tom Brady would have, the way Peyton Manning would have..."

Simms: "Tom Brady couldn't handle Antonio Brown...couldn't handle it"

Florio: "Well...well...he wasn't there long enough

Simms: "WHAT?  They were living together!  They were living together!  I mean, *****, Holy Crap!  It's just not always fixable with these guys."

 

So if y'all want an example of the craziness of Media Criticism, There You Go.

 

Here we have Mike Florio, who has never been in an NFL locker room as a player, led an NFL huddle, or appeared in a post-game press conference - I don't even think he spends much time interacting with players or visiting locker rooms as a member of the press - criticizing Josh Allen for being an 'overgrown boy who doesn't really embrace what it means to be the Quarterback of his team' (essentially, for not leading), for not calling Diggs out in front of the public on the sideline, for not calling him out in a press conference, for not privately in the locker room reining him in.

 

And we have Chris Simms, who started 16 games for 2 different teams, played for 3 teams, and has actually done all of those things as well as been a coaching assistant on a 4th team, who has to basically talk over Florio because Florio won't let him get a word in edgewise to point out that the things Florio suggests would have major pitfalls and that Florio really doesn't know what Josh has or hasn't done behind closed doors.

 

My jaw dropped and I'm shaking my head at how BLATANTLY SILLY this was.  Yeah, Simms wasn't a great QB, but he understands actual locker room and player to player dynamics, he's been there.  He understands the unwritten rules about what QB can or can't do.  It was nuts.
 

 

Edited April 13 by Beck Water

[90sBills]

Florio just say things to stir up controversies. I’m glad Simms called him out on it this time. Simms usually just rolls over. 

[ToGoGo]

On 4/11/2024 at 10:42 AM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

 

 

 

Knock yourself out, buddy. This is what I found in 3 minutes of searching. 

 

Everybody here knows how much Allen has been criticized about being a turnover machine despite those interceptions usually not having an effect on the Bills winning games. Their record for the past 5 years speaks for itself. 
 

What’s really funny is you judging me because of a disagreement on a message board. 

None of the things you originally said are in there. 
 

Nobody disagrees that Allen has been criticized. They just rightfully called out the made up things you said. 
 

Nice sleight of hand though. 

[Chaos]

On 4/11/2024 at 4:37 PM, Fan in San Diego said:

PFF has Josh Ranked #1 for 2023

 

This may not be as valid as the BBBS scale.

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Florio just say things to stir up controversies. I’m glad Simms called him out on it this time. Simms usually just rolls over. 

 

Simms was really riled up.  You can watch his facial expression when Florio shuts him up and talks over him to blather on about how Josh never called Diggs on anything (Simms, who has been in the Bills locker room as a journalist and knows a lot of guys, admits he does not know; Florio "infers").

 

You could just tell Simms was piping-hot angry and trying to figure out how he could express himself in "airable" terms.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Beck Water said:

OK, now if you want to find criticism of Josh Allen, Florio of PFT just rips his leadership to shreds.  This seems like as good a place as any to put this.

 

My jaw dropped.  Wait, wait, hear me out here.

[my transcript deleted]

 

So if y'all want an example of the craziness of Media Criticism, There You Go.

 

Here we have Mike Florio, who has never been in an NFL locker room as a player, led an NFL huddle, or appeared in a post-game press conference - I don't even think he spends much time interacting with players or visiting locker rooms as a member of the press - criticizing Josh Allen for being an 'overgrown boy who doesn't really embrace what it means to be the Quarterback of his team' (essentially, for not leading), for not calling Diggs out in front of the public on the sideline, for not calling him out in a press conference, for not privately in the locker room reining him in.

 

And we have Chris Simms, who started 16 games for 2 different teams, played for 3 teams, and has actually done all of those things as well as been a coaching assistant on a 4th team, who has to basically talk over Florio because Florio won't let him get a word in edgewise to point out that the things Florio suggests would have major pitfalls and that Florio really doesn't know what Josh has or hasn't done behind closed doors.

 

My jaw dropped and I'm shaking my head at how BLATANTLY SILLY this was.  Yeah, Simms wasn't a great QB, but he understands actual locker room and player to player dynamics, he's been there.  He understands the unwritten rules about what QB can or can't do.  It was nuts.
 

 

 

I actually did the math, and Chris Simms would have been born just before his Dad Phil Simms 2nd year with the Giants.  So he would have been in his peak formative years, between 5 yrs and 13 yrs, when his Dad was QB'ing the Giants to winning seasons, playoffs, 2 Superbowls and then surely the focus of his Dad's attention when he was a young QB in HS and college.  So it's not just that Chris Simms has his own minor career in the NFL, he was around a winning lockerroom and two Superbowl teams.  

 

He knows what it takes, and what the QB can or shouldn't do on the sidelines, in the press conference, and in the locker room.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

26 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I actually did the math, and Chris Simms would have been born just before his Dad Phil Simms 2nd year with the Giants.  So he would have been in his peak formative years, between 5 yrs and 13 yrs, when his Dad was QB'ing the Giants to winning seasons, playoffs, 2 Superbowls and then surely the focus of his Dad's attention when he was a young QB in HS and college.  So it's not just that Chris Simms has his own minor career in the NFL, he was around a winning lockerroom and two Superbowl teams.  

 

He knows what it takes, and what the QB can or shouldn't do on the sidelines, in the press conference, and in the locker room.

The end of this exchange is the most animated and irritated I’ve ever heard Simms get with Florio—for good reason! 😁

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

None of the things you originally said are in there. 
 

Nobody disagrees that Allen has been criticized. They just rightfully called out the made up things you said. 
 

Nice sleight of hand though. 

This is stuff I’ve observed since the end of the season. You really expect me to dig up articles or comments some from months ago? What is my motivation for lying? The Josh Allen criticism is at an all time high. And the Roethlisberger comparison has been regurgitated about 1000 times. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

18 hours ago, Beck Water said:

OK, now if you want to find criticism of Josh Allen, Florio of PFT just rips his leadership to shreds.  This seems like as good a place as any to put this.

 

My jaw dropped.  Wait, wait, hear me out here.

 

Prior context, About 9:30 in:

Simms: "Everything I know from some people in the league there ....this was a mutual parting of ways.  That much I do kinda know.  Both sides were done with each other.  Now, to your point......Buffalo is obviously so annoyed and couldn't deal with it any more, that they were willing to give away a #1 receiver for next year's 2025 2nd round pick and take a $31M cap charge?  That needs to be in blinking lights.  That tells you how sick they were of Stefon Diggs. [Simms goes on about this for a while.  Note that Joe Buscaglia, who is very in to cold hard facts of cap and trade value, thinks the Bills got a fair or even a good deal for an almost-31 yr old WR]
Florio: "Well, it's their (the Bills) own fault, it's their own fault.  They knew what they were getting.  They knew they were getting a guy, who if you don't handle him a certain way he's not going to be happy.  And he has a way of pressing YOUR buttons, until you get to a point of 'FINE, let's move ON! And at the end of the day, he got what he wanted."

Simms: "I don't know how you can say it's their fault though.  I don't know how you can say that."

Florio: "Because they knew what they were getting, they knew that they were getting a guy who potentially was going to Wear Them Out."

Simms: "I don't know how you can say that.  By all due accounts, the Bills did everything they could, Josh Allen, the team itself, to make it work for Stefon Diggs.  Nobody has had the ball thrown to them more in the last 4 seasons, than Stefon Diggs.  I mean, they made him the guy, just feed him everything, all the time.  Yeah, you know what you're getting into there, and hopefully Houston lucks out and gets a different Stefon Diggs who realizes 'wait, I'm not a top-5 or top 10 talent any more, I am getting up there in age a little bit, and if I keep having these antics, nobody's gonna want me any more.  I would hope that helps him and his approach to things."

[Yes and no, Simms.  Stefon Diggs is in no way not acknowledging he's not a top-5 or 10 talent any more.  And he was a great teammate his first 2 years in Buffalo, so sure, he'll be good in Houston for a single year.  Count on it.]

Florio at 12:30 in: "Antics is the key word.  You're acknowledging there are things about Stefon Diggs that need to change.  So, what a team can do is either come up with a plan for changing him and implement it effectively, or get to a point where they say 'we can't take him any more'.  So the Bills, knowing or should have known, they're getting a guy you have to tread a little lightly with, and it's going to get difficult.  What is our plan for when it gets difficult?  What is our plan to coax him to mature into something else than what he's been? Where he WILL rush out of the locker room without talking to reporters?  Where he WILL gesture in the face of Josh Allen on the sideline during a 27-10 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals"

Simms: "Those are the things where I'm gonna blame Stefon Diggs a little bit there.  I mean, just looking at it from outside, the year was great, all of a sudden he's mad in a playoff game because he didn't get the ball enough [Fact: 4 receptions on 10 targets, led the Bills in targets by a lot] and then the offseason became a disaster...I don't know the details or the fighting or the conversations that went on there and I'm not trying to act like I do"

Florio: "Hang on.  We've talked about this before.  You know what Josh Allen needs to do in that moment [when Diggs is yelling at him on the sideline]?  He needs to throw off his vest, he needs to stand up, he needs to grab Stefon Diggs, and they need to go have a conversation, and he needs to tell Stefon Diggs what's what.  [yells over Simms, tells anecdote about Warren Moon going to Cris Carter, "you pull that ***** again and I'm never going to throw you the ball again as long as I'm the quarterback of this team, do you got it?"]  I love Josh Allen, you love Josh Allen, you call him 'Boy Blue'.  Sometimes I think he goes through life as an overgrown boy and doesn't really embrace what it means to be the Quarterback of the Team and I think that's what a lot of this is, Chris; I think this is Josh Allen being positioned, as he enters the back half of his prime, he's still in his prime, I think this is the Bills recognizing they have to put guys around Josh Allen that he's COMFORTABLE leading.  Because I think he's a big part of this.  And maybe nobody could properly get through to Stefon Diggs.  But I think that relationship was too much of Diggs doing whatever he wanted, saying whatever he wanted, and Josh Allen never calling him on it.  Not knowing how to do it.  Not wanting to do it. 'Cuz it's awkward.  A lot of people don't like confrontation.  
Simms: "No, and this is a guy that likes it [I think he means, Diggs likes confrontation] and if he [Allen] did that on the sideline, he [Diggs] would blow it up and make it worse and it would be a bigger spectacle.  And I think Josh Allen is smart enough to say 'you know what, if I go do what Mike Florio says right now, everyone's going to go crazy on this subject, and people are going to be saying Josh Allen can't handle his team and all that, Josh Allen is losing his cool at the end of a playoff game, hey, you can't lead your team.  That's just TALK, MIke, that's not really the reality of that way."

Florio: "Chris, Chris, Chris.  You can get him in the locker room and do it there"

Simms: " You don't know that he hasn't.  You don't know that"

Florio:  "I guarantee you he hasn't.  I guarantee you.  I guarantee you that never happened."

Simms: "Come On, Mike" (disgusted)

Florio: "We've never seen any hint.  We've never seen Josh Allen talk about it.  Josh Allen always has his back.  There's never been a hint of any effort, or any frustration, or any attempt by Josh Allen to take over that relationship.  That relationship was dominated by Stefon Diggs.  As long as Diggs got what he wanted eveyrthing was fine, and Josh Allen never pushed back against that disrespect that we've seen from time to time"

Simms: "You're ...you're"

Florio: "I'm making inferences based upon what we've seen"

Simms: "I know, and I'm just telling you, nobody ought to call out a player at a post game press conference" (said while Florio is talking over him and won't let him get a word in edgewise)  If he did that, you'd say he's a Bad Leader.  You're putting him in a no-win situation.  Who comes into a press conference and says that stuff?"

Florio: "Aaron Rodgers says it."
Simms: "When? As a team thing?  He never calls someone out..he says cryptically coded stuff. That's not a cool way to do it either, and YOU AGREE WITH THAT.  And that's why he's out of Green Bay, 'cuz everybody was sick of it.  Stop.  Stop!"

Florio: "Ok, you talk.  I won't talk until the break.  You take it over."

Simms: "Be a baby"

Florio: "I'm not being a baby"

Simms: "You are being a ***** baby"

Florio: "Let me talk"

Simms: "You talked a LOT.  Get out of here.  Shut up, ya baby."

Florio: "OK. See, this is what Josh Allen should do.  (Laughs)  I feel like, at the heart of this, there was a failure to manage Stefon Diggs."

Simms: "Sure."

Florio: "Whether it was  Josh Allen not managing it the way Tom Brady would have, the way Peyton Manning would have..."

Simms: "Tom Brady couldn't handle Antonio Brown...couldn't handle it"

Florio: "Well...well...he wasn't there long enough

Simms: "WHAT?  They were living together!  They were living together!  I mean, *****, Holy Crap!  It's just not always fixable with these guys."

 

So if y'all want an example of the craziness of Media Criticism, There You Go.

 

Here we have Mike Florio, who has never been in an NFL locker room as a player, led an NFL huddle, or appeared in a post-game press conference - I don't even think he spends much time interacting with players or visiting locker rooms as a member of the press - criticizing Josh Allen for being an 'overgrown boy who doesn't really embrace what it means to be the Quarterback of his team' (essentially, for not leading), for not calling Diggs out in front of the public on the sideline, for not calling him out in a press conference, for not privately in the locker room reining him in.

 

And we have Chris Simms, who started 16 games for 2 different teams, played for 3 teams, and has actually done all of those things as well as been a coaching assistant on a 4th team, who has to basically talk over Florio because Florio won't let him get a word in edgewise to point out that the things Florio suggests would have major pitfalls and that Florio really doesn't know what Josh has or hasn't done behind closed doors.

 

My jaw dropped and I'm shaking my head at how BLATANTLY SILLY this was.  Yeah, Simms wasn't a great QB, but he understands actual locker room and player to player dynamics, he's been there.  He understands the unwritten rules about what QB can or can't do.  It was nuts.
 

 

Simms is right. Nobody knows what went on in the locker room. Josh could’ve pressed Diggs multiple times. He’s just smart enough not to throw him under the bus in front of the media. I think we as fans want somebody to put Diggs in his place in front of the cameras, that WOULD be satisfying, but what would it accomplish besides giving the media even more to ***** about? A 2nd rounder next year is a GOOD deal. We eat the money this year then we are home free. As much as I hate drafting somebody based on “character” I hope they grab a WR who’s not a cry baby. 

[Ya Digg?]

11 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Simms is right. Nobody knows what went on in the locker room. Josh could’ve pressed Diggs multiple times. He’s just smart enough not to throw him under the bus in front of the media. I think we as fans want somebody to put Diggs in his place in front of the cameras, that WOULD be satisfying, but what would it accomplish besides giving the media even more to ***** about? A 2nd rounder next year is a GOOD deal. We eat the money this year then we are home free. As much as I hate drafting somebody based on “character” I hope they grab a WR who’s not a cry baby. 

Exactly-Josh had been in the league 6 years now, and all we have ever heard is what a good leader he is. You would think if he wasn’t someone would’ve said something at some point over the last 6 years. I have said it 1,000 times on here and will continue to say it-SCREAMING AT YOUR TEAMMATES IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS DURING A GAME DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A GOOD LEADER

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The end of this exchange is the most animated and irritated I’ve ever heard Simms get with Florio—for good reason! 😁

 

That's to my mind the biggest issue with the media and social media these days.  It's really become an exemplar of the Lao Tzu dictum "He who knows, does not speak, and he who speaks does not know."

 

You would think that the hamster wheel would turn and the cluebird would drop a clue on Florio "here I am, a former Brown shoes Lawyer who talks for a living, telling an actual former NFL QB who started games and ran a huddle gave press conferences and sat on the sideline and lived in the locker room with teammates, AND who is the son of a successful NFL QB who won 2 Superbowls, how and when a current NFL QB ought to handle himself with a troublesome WR  - WAIT WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?"

Florio doubles down on Josh Allen the next day with Myles Simmons when Simms wasn't around

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by Beck Water

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The Josh Allen criticism is at an all time high. And the Roethlisberger comparison has been regurgitated about 1000 times. 

It will get worse with each passing non championship year. If Bills don’t win one in 3 years Allen will be Phillip Rivers in the media’s narrative. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

33 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It will get worse with each passing non championship year. If Bills don’t win one in 3 years Allen will be Phillip Rivers in the media’s narrative. 

Exactly and the Bills can do something about it by winning. Good thing the games are played on the field 

[tonawandarock]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:00 AM, 90sBills said:

One can only put it on the defense for so long. When Mahomes gets the ball with a chance to win at the end of playoffs games he usually finishes. The opponents know this. Fans know this. When Allen gets the ball at the end we’re often bracing for the inevitable wtf happened moment.

 

Regardless of how the defense played this past playoffs game Allen had the ball with a chance to knock off KC and couldn’t finish. If it was the reverse Mahomes would definitely finish that drive. We’ve seen it from him time and again in the biggest games. KC’s defense gave up 35 in the Superbowl. Mahomes found  way to score 38. That’s the level that Allen needs to operate at and he hasn’t.

no one will ever convince me that PM would be as great as he is without Reid coaching him. Reid worked wonders with mcnabb and alex smith(who was past his "prime.") Vick had his best passing numbers after his suspension under Reid. we will never see JA's ceiling unless the bills get a top 10 OC. losing the home playoff game against KC was nearly as bad as the 13s game. POOR COACHING!

[Norcalbillsfan]

90% of josh allen criticism is because of one reason, bills mafia. 

 

Nick Wright legitimately has made a career on hating josh allen. Why? Because he's a beloved qb of a diehard fan base. A fan base that can easily be triggered into a frenzy of tweets and views. Every time nick Wright bashes josh allen he's immediately trending on Twitter.

 

You really think Stephen a Smith hates the cowboys? Guarantee he doesn't give a rats ass, but it's the most popular team in America and hating on them gets views and tweets.

 

They can't bash on Desmond ridder every day, no one will tweet or watch the clips.

 

[Beck Water]

47 minutes ago, tonawandarock said:

no one will ever convince me that PM would be as great as he is without Reid coaching him. Reid worked wonders with mcnabb and alex smith(who was past his "prime.") Vick had his best passing numbers after his suspension under Reid. we will never see JA's ceiling unless the bills get a top 10 OC. losing the home playoff game against KC was nearly as bad as the 13s game. POOR COACHING!

 

Oh, I don't know, do you think, as @NoHuddleKelly12 said elsewhere, "the Order of Little Sisters of the Poor showed up to start at Linebacker for the Bills against KC in the playoffs" might have some impact on the results?  I don't think AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson (with one wing), and Dane Jackson, not to mention injured Rasul Douglas, exactly scared KC's offense.

 

We'll never quite be able to do the experiment, but it's a fact that KC had the #6 offense in the league on points, #5 on yards, Tyreek Hill (1083 yds), Travis Kelce (1038 yds), and Kareem Hunt (1327 rush yards) in 2017 while Pat Mahomes was sitting on the bench to "watch and learn" how Alex Smith prepared and played each week.  And the same supporting cast was there for his rookie year. 

Edited April 14 by Beck Water

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, tonawandarock said:

no one will ever convince me that PM would be as great as he is without Reid coaching him. Reid worked wonders with mcnabb and alex smith(who was past his "prime.") Vick had his best passing numbers after his suspension under Reid. we will never see JA's ceiling unless the bills get a top 10 OC. losing the home playoff game against KC was nearly as bad as the 13s game. POOR COACHING!

 

How was Alex Smith past his prime?  He was 27 ot 28 when he was traded to Kansas City, pretty much entering the prime years for a QB.  Secondly, it wasn't Andy Reid that worked the miracle with Alex Smith, it was Jim Harbaugh.   Harbaugh took someone who looked like a all-time bust and made Smith a pretty good QB before he was traded to KC.  As for McNabb, he was the #2 pick in his draft year.   Andy Reid did a great job with him, but it wasn't like McNabb was a unknown UDFA.

 

 

Edited April 14 by Billy Claude

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, tonawandarock said:

no one will ever convince me that PM would be as great as he is without Reid coaching him. Reid worked wonders with mcnabb and alex smith(who was past his "prime.") Vick had his best passing numbers after his suspension under Reid. we will never see JA's ceiling unless the bills get a top 10 OC. losing the home playoff game against KC was nearly as bad as the 13s game. POOR COACHING!

Ah yes. The legend of Reid grows and grows. Funny how that growth coincided with Mahomes arrival.

 

Bills coaching is definitely part of the blame. The other part would be the guys on the field. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

I figured this was a good place for this James Jones rant....idiots gonna idiot:

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 4/13/2024 at 7:35 PM, Norcalbillsfan said:

90% of josh allen criticism is because of one reason, bills mafia. 

 

Nick Wright legitimately has made a career on hating josh allen. Why? Because he's a beloved qb of a diehard fan base. A fan base that can easily be triggered into a frenzy of tweets and views. Every time nick Wright bashes josh allen he's immediately trending on Twitter.

 

You really think Stephen a Smith hates the cowboys? Guarantee he doesn't give a rats ass, but it's the most popular team in America and hating on them gets views and tweets.

 

They can't bash on Desmond ridder every day, no one will tweet or watch the clips.

 

Yes, but a lot more in recent times is coming from other fans. People keep harassing me for links when it’s stuff I’ve seen on Reddit, FB/Youtube comments, etc. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:00 PM, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, I don't know, do you think, as @NoHuddleKelly12 said elsewhere, "the Order of Little Sisters of the Poor showed up to start at Linebacker for the Bills against KC in the playoffs" might have some impact on the results?  I don't think AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson (with one wing), and Dane Jackson, not to mention injured Rasul Douglas, exactly scared KC's offense.

 

We'll never quite be able to do the experiment, but it's a fact that KC had the #6 offense in the league on points, #5 on yards, Tyreek Hill (1083 yds), Travis Kelce (1038 yds), and Kareem Hunt (1327 rush yards) in 2017 while Pat Mahomes was sitting on the bench to "watch and learn" how Alex Smith prepared and played each week.  And the same supporting cast was there for his rookie year. 

Chiefs could only put up 17 on Baltimore who had a relatively healthy defense. Bill Parcells couldn’t scheme an effective defense w/ the pieces that were missing/injured that game. 

[Beck Water]

49 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Yes, but a lot more in recent times is coming from other fans. People keep harassing me for links when it’s stuff I’ve seen on Reddit, FB/Youtube comments, etc. 

 

Dude, Stop.  You made statements, a couple of you asking you for sources is hardly "harassing you".  Were we following around asking you on your every post?  Following you around the site?  Hitting up your DMs (I know I haven't)? 

 

What is this "harassment" you have suffered?

 

If it's on Reddit or Youtube, it should be findable.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

38 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude, Stop.  You made statements, a couple of you asking you for sources is hardly "harassing you".  Were we following around asking you on your every post?  Following you around the site?  Hitting up your DMs (I know I haven't)? 

 

What is this "harassment" you have suffered?

 

If it's on Reddit or Youtube, it should be findable.

I’m not going to individually screen shot each comment. It’s just an observation I made over the past month frequenting other NFL social media. Most people seem to agree w/ me otherwise this thread wouldn’t have hit 12 pages. 

[transplantbillsfan]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:49 AM, Shaw66 said:

No, Transplant.

 

You're talking about what offense the Bills coaches choose to run.   I'm talking about how well Allen executes the offense he's given to run.  Those are two different things.   

 

The Bills do not give Allen plays with complex route trees and tell him to ignore half the routes.   They do not do that.  They give him plays just like the plays that every other team, including the Ravens, give to their QBs, and they expect him to execute those plays just like every other quarterback.   Yes, the Bills may have some plays they give to Allen that most other teams don't give to their QB, but whatever they give him, they expect him to execute the entire play.   The Bills offense is not sandlot football. 

 

Shaw, listen to Allen’s PC the other day. In fact, skip to the last few minutes he talks about Joe Brady and what he's excited about.

 

Allen directly says he was coached previously to run. It's revealing. Go listen because it completely contradicts this belief.