PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m going to assume you’re correct, but the cost of seats in the current stadium isn’t really relevant. As I see it the PSL is way of hiding the actual ticket cost while at the same time getting a long term commitment upfront. A word to the wise: Your life is going to change drastically over the span of thirty years! Getting effectively married to a plastic seat with built in cup holders may not be the wisest commitment. 

It’s not hiding anything. It is done that way to avoid revenue sharing. The PSL offsets a portion of Pegula’s cost to build the new stadium. It’s the cost of entry if you want to be in. It’s not uncommon at all. The areas yet to be released will come with lower price tags. 
 

Are you going to get your money back out on the PSL? No. Maybe if you can buy those lower level clubs at midfield, that’ll keep some of its value. Ticket brokers could be interested in that because they can get a ton of money of a per ticket basis there. That’s the only place that will somewhat hold its value. No one is buying a PSL as an investment though. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So if these are being sold for a 30 year lifespan and there are 10 home games a year (300 total games) then a $20,000 PSL essentially raises your ticket price by $75.00 per game. 

 

Yes, IF you ignore these 3 factors:
 

1) If you count pre-season. I wouldn't.

 

2) And if you pay cash (most will finance is my guess). 

3) And if you don't take into account opportunity cost, which would be approximately $181,260 over 30 years. Some of this will be offset by hedging against inflation. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes, IF you ignore these 3 factors:
 

1) If you count pre-season. I wouldn't.

 

2) And if you pay cash (most will finance is my guess). 

3) And if you don't take into account opportunity cost, which would be approximately $181,260 over 30 years. Some of this will be offset by hedging against inflation. 

3 years and it is interest free. It’s like 10.5% if you do the 10 year finance. They said very few people have gone the finance route so far.

[plenzmd1]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

3 years and it is interest free. It’s like 10.5% if you do the 10 year finance. They said very few people have gone the finance route so far.

3 years interest  free is a no brainer

[papazoid]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s not hiding anything. It is done that way to avoid revenue sharing. The PSL offsets a portion of Pegula’s cost to build the new stadium. It’s the cost of entry if you want to be in. It’s not uncommon at all. The areas yet to be released will come with lower price tags. 
 

Are you going to get your money back out on the PSL? No. Maybe if you can buy those lower level clubs at midfield, that’ll keep some of its value. Ticket brokers could be interested in that because they can get a ton of money of a per ticket basis there. That’s the only place that will somewhat hold its value. No one is buying a PSL as an investment though. 

 

bills will be cracking down on ticket brokers/ frequent nfl ticket exchange listers....just like they recently did with sabres STH

 

anyone who thinks they will buy tix in the new stadium only to resell most of them are in for rude awakening

 

buy a NY State Brokers License or not be able to buy tickets....which may lead to losing your PSL

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

3 years interest  free is a no brainer

Yep, that’s the route that we are going to go when we eventually commit to something.

11 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

bills will be cracking down on ticket brokers/ frequent nfl ticket exchange listers....just like they recently did with sabres STH

 

anyone who thinks they will buy tix in the new stadium only to resell most of them are in for rude awakening

 

buy a NY State Brokers License or not be able to buy tickets....which may lead to losing your PSL

The people buying those will be some of their broker partners. The Bills have had some broker partner relationships that date back to the Super Bowl years. They will have a certain amount of seats that those people will have access to.
 

I’d venture to say that they are incentivized by discounting the PSL based on the number of seats that they buy. As an example, if they have someone that has 500 season tickets, they may only charge them for 400 PSLs. They may give them 10 years interest free or whatever. I don’t know exactly how they engage brokers but there is strategy to it in all cases. It’s tough in the NFL because you can’t discount tickets with revenue sharing. There’s no reason that you couldn’t make a deal on the PSLs though.

[NoSaint]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Basically, and the ticket prices in the new stadium are roughly double what they are now for these same seats. I think that the face value of my seats now are about $300 a game. In the new stadium they are like $550 I think (plus the license fee). 

ouch. That’s a steep jump. Essentially tripling your cost?

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

ouch. That’s a steep jump. Essentially tripling your cost?

I haven’t done all of the math yet but yeah. It’s not pretty

[JimmyNoodles]

Air is so good!

[Einstein]

41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

3 years and it is interest free.

Oh I missed that. That is not a bad offer.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s not hiding anything. It is done that way to avoid revenue sharing. The PSL offsets a portion of Pegula’s cost to build the new stadium. It’s the cost of entry if you want to be in. It’s not uncommon at all. The areas yet to be released will come with lower price tags. 
 

Are you going to get your money back out on the PSL? No. Maybe if you can buy those lower level clubs at midfield, that’ll keep some of its value. Ticket brokers could be interested in that because they can get a ton of money of a per ticket basis there. That’s the only place that will somewhat hold its value. No one is buying a PSL as an investment though. 

Kirby, I’m not trying be snarky, but isn’t Pegula avoiding revenue sharing the very definition of ‘hiding’? 😉 And as regards the price to the ticket holder there’s a reason why when you see a car lease offer the monthly payment is shown in BIG bold font, and the down payment is ‘hidden’ in LITTLE hard to read font. 
 

So unless your private seat license allows you to go in and eat cheese sandwich in your private seat on an odd Thursday in May, when there isn’t a game/event happening….then it really is nothing more than a hidden ticket price. No? 

[PromoTheRobot]

25 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

bills will be cracking down on ticket brokers/ frequent nfl ticket exchange listers....just like they recently did with sabres STH

 

anyone who thinks they will buy tix in the new stadium only to resell most of them are in for rude awakening

 

buy a NY State Brokers License or not be able to buy tickets....which may lead to losing your PSL

 

Sports teams need brokers and resellers to insulate franchises from large swings in ticket sales during down years.

[JDHillFan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I haven’t done all of the math yet but yeah. It’s not pretty

What are your impressions of the stadium outside of seat cost? The model??

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kirby, I’m not trying be snarky, but isn’t Pegula avoiding revenue sharing the very definition of ‘hiding’? 😉 And as regards the price to the ticket holder there’s a reason why when you see a car lease offer the monthly payment is shown in BIG bold font, and the down payment is ‘hidden’ in LITTLE hard to read font. 
 

So unless your private seat license allows you to go in and eat cheese sandwich in your private seat on an odd Thursday in May, when there isn’t a game/event happening….then it really is nothing more than a hidden ticket price. No? 

The Bills aren’t avoiding revenue sharing in the least because revenues from the sale of PSLs are not subject to sharing with the league. The league still gets their 40% share of the gate revenue for any particular game just like it’s been for decades. 

[WotAGuy]

16 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Bills aren’t avoiding revenue sharing in the least because revenues from the sale of PSLs are not subject to sharing with the league. The league still gets their 40% share of the gate revenue for any particular game just like it’s been for decades. 

I read that the PSL sales can only go toward the stadium construction costs, but it was probably here that I read it so YMMV. 

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Kirby, I’m not trying be snarky, but isn’t Pegula avoiding revenue sharing the very definition of ‘hiding’? 😉 And as regards the price to the ticket holder there’s a reason why when you see a car lease offer the monthly payment is shown in BIG bold font, and the down payment is ‘hidden’ in LITTLE hard to read font. 
 

So unless your private seat license allows you to go in and eat cheese sandwich in your private seat on an odd Thursday in May, when there isn’t a game/event happening….then it really is nothing more than a hidden ticket price. No? 

I mean, not really. Most owners go that route with new stadiums. It isn’t a secret that the PSLs come off of the owner’s contribution to the stadium. It isn’t ideal but we knew a decade ago that this would eventually be the case. 
 

I equate the PSL to buying a car new. Once you drive it off the lot it’s value drops drastically. You then put 20,000 miles a year on the first 3 years and it just isn’t close to what you paid. After a handful more years, it’s basically worthless. That’s why you aren’t buying it as an investment. You’re buying it because you want to be in the stadium for all Bills games. I guess by that logic, it is another ticket fee.

 

It’s like the initiation fee at a country club. You still have to pay your monthly dues, any assessments that come around and fees for different services. All that the initiation fee does is give you the right to pay those other fees.

34 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

What are your impressions of the stadium outside of seat cost? The model??

It looked awesome. They walk you through how it is built a certain way to redirect wind. They talk about how the appearance is inspired by Kleinhans and the Aud. I thought that was all pretty sweet. The attention to detail was so far beyond what we currently have. I guess that isn’t a surprise with a 52 year old stadium. It looks like it will be one of the nicer stadiums in the league. 

Edited April 9 by Kirby Jackson

[papazoid]

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Sports teams need brokers and resellers to insulate franchises from large swings in ticket sales during down years.

 

makes perfect sense

 

except the sabres seem to be in another down year.....and yet they are purging resellers

 

Buffalo Sabres Crack Down on Ticket Resales with License Requirement, Fans in Uproar Over New Season Shakeup

https://fanrecap.com/buffalo-sabres-crack-down-on-ticket-resales-with-license-requirement-fans-in-uproar-over-new-season-shakeup/

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I mean, not really. Most owners go that route with new stadiums. It isn’t a secret that the PSLs come off of the owner’s contribution to the stadium. It isn’t ideal but we knew a decade ago that this would eventually be the case. 
 

I equate the PSL to buying a car new. Once you drive it off the lot it’s value drops drastically. You then put 20,000 miles a year on the first 3 years and it just isn’t close to what you paid. After a handful more years, it’s basically worthless. That’s why you aren’t buying it as an investment. You’re buying it because you want to be in the stadium for almm on Bills games. I guess by that logic, it is another ticket fee.

 

It’s like the initiation fee at a country club. You still have to pay your monthly dues, any assessments that come around and fees for different services. All that the initiation fee does is give you the right to pay those other fees.

It looked awesome. They walk you through how it is built a certain way to redirect wind. They talk about how the appearance is inspired by Kleinhans and the Aud. I thought that was all pretty sweet. The attention to detail was so far beyond what we currently have. I guess that isn’t a surprise with a 52 year old stadium. It looks like it will be one of the nicer stadiums in the league. 

 

I like the new car and country club comparisons.  I decided to pay because it’s worth it to me. I think that’s pretty simple. 

 

Country clubs can be even more expensive than PSL’s and you can’t always just walk away. You might have to be paying dues indefinitely until someone will buy it, which brings me back around to timeshares, but that’s another topic. 

[SoCal Deek]

44 minutes ago, K-9 said:

The Bills aren’t avoiding revenue sharing in the least because revenues from the sale of PSLs are not subject to sharing with the league. The league still gets their 40% share of the gate revenue for any particular game just like it’s been for decades. 

Geeez we appear to be talking right past each other. Thats okay. 

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I read that the PSL sales can only go toward the stadium construction costs, but it was probably here that I read it so YMMV. 

Technically, the Bills can use PSL revenues for whatever they wanna use them for, but it makes sense to put it towards their share of the construction costs. The only point I was trying to make is that unlike revenues generated from ticket sales, which are shared 60/40 between the team/league, PSL revenues are not subject to revenue sharing so it’s not like the Bills are “hiding” anything from the league as was suggested in the post I responded to initially. 

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Geeez we appear to be talking right past each other. Thats okay. 

I have no idea why you’d say that as it seemed you weren’t sure when you suggested to @Kirby Jackson that Pegula was avoiding revenue sharing by hiding something and I only sought to clarify the issue for you. I have no idea how that’s talking past you, but yeah, that’s okay.