How clutch was Josh in 2023? No other QB even came close

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

This is what we've all seen since day 1 when Josh stepped on a field in a Bills uni. He's always had that "it" factor, his teammates love him, and you know he's going to leave everything on the field. In most instances he walks off the field having led his team to a lead, or put them in position to take it, or at least tie (unless we're already up substantially). Those with a basic understanding of football know he's clutch if they watch him play. The 🤡's on TV can nitpick all they want, and try to claim lesser QB's are better, but the eye test doesn't lie. Josh is not the reason we're out here losing games.

 

This is probably also why he was in Tiger's group at Riviera during the Genesis pro-am a few days ago. That pairing only happens because Tiger wanted it to happen, which speaks volumes about what he thinks of our guy that wears 17.

 

Woods probably catches only a small fraction of Bills games, and he sees what we all see. And what an unbelievable experience that had to be for Josh, playing with your idol at the tourney he hosts!

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Josh is not the reason we're out here losing games.

Agreed. Bills need more playmakers on both sides. With that said, he is part of the reason why they haven’t advanced further. There are improvements to be made on his part, especially seeing the game better. 

[Frostbite]

On 2/16/2024 at 8:59 AM, Bob Jones said:

Just stop. Did not even make it to the AFCCG. Stats like this mean squat. Just win, baby.

Stats like this mean anyone blaming Josh for the Bills falling short every year are lazy and follow whatever random narrative is thrown out there instead of coming up with their own analysis. 

[Success]

Allen didn't get anywhere near the defensive support that most of the other playoff teams got.  Watching KC & SF in the Super Bowl was eye-opening.  That was much more of a defensive game.

 

And it's really been like that almost every time in the playoffs.  The Bills D is usually ranked high and plays well most of the regular season, but disappears in the playoffs.  Against KC, the pressure was on almost every drive to score, because our D could not get stops.

[Freddie's Dead]

Yet another scathing indictment of McDummy.

[Jimmy Harris 69]

This kid will get his trophy. He is just too good. I’m doubtful that it will be with McD. Dude still wants to win 20 to 17 in a league that is more interested in 31 to 28.

[Billever76]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:11 AM, Bob Jones said:

But in the NFL, QB is BY FAR the most important position, and that one player can make WORLDS of difference. See Tom Brady with the Bucaneers, for example.

Allen makes worlds of difference lol TF

9 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Agreed. Bills need more playmakers on both sides. With that said, he is part of the reason why they haven’t advanced further. There are improvements to be made on his part, especially seeing the game better. 

27 touchdowns 5 total turnovers

Only post season player in history to average over 250 yards passing and over 50 yards rushing every playoff game..5th rated post season qb in NFL History..No allen isn't part of the reason...last 4 playoff losses Bills defense has forced 6 total Punts...that's 6 PUNTS in 4 games Total!

[Matt_In_NH]

12 hours ago, Billever76 said:

Only post season player in history to average over 250 yards passing and over 50 yards rushing every playoff game..5th rated post season qb in NFL History..No allen isn't part of the reason...last 4 playoff losses Bills defense has forced 6 total Punts...that's 6 PUNTS in 4 games Total!

Correct, not in the playoffs.   It would be nice if he can clean up his regular season turnovers some but this is just another example of feeding the narrative that isn't actually all that true.

[Unforgiven]

Not as clutch as Mahomes.

[Bob Jones]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:23 AM, CincyBillsFan said:

Where stats do matter is when you're trying to determine where you are falling short and how you get over the hump to "just win, baby".  And Allen's stats are a reminder that he is the Bills best player.  Stats also provide compelling evidence to disprove the morons constantly claiming that "Allen has to do more".

Against the Chiefs, in the final drive, he DID need to do more. On 2nd and 3rd downs, he threw incompletions. If Mahomes was our QB in that situation, he would have thrown a completion (or ran for a 1st down like he did in the SB multiple times), kept the drive moving downfield, and either got close enough for a chip shot FG or got the go ahead TD. If you don’t agree with the latter, you’re lying to yourself.

 

Btw, I’m not a moron, and have been closely watching NFL football for 50+ years, so I have an “educated” opinion. OTOH, regardless of what all these stats say, people who think JA has no faults are blinded by homerism. I understand the latter, but it doesn’t make it right.

[Ya Digg?]

41 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Against the Chiefs, in the final drive, he DID need to do more. On 2nd and 3rd downs, he threw incompletions. If Mahomes was our QB in that situation, he would have thrown a completion (or ran for a 1st down like he did in the SB multiple times), kept the drive moving downfield, and either got close enough for a chip shot FG or got the go ahead TD. If you don’t agree with the latter, you’re lying to yourself.

 

Btw, I’m not a moron, and have been closely watching NFL football for 50+ years, so I have an “educated” opinion. OTOH, regardless of what all these stats say, people who think JA has no faults are blinded by homerism. I understand the latter, but it doesn’t make it right.

On 3rd down yes he could’ve done more, on 2nd down it’s an emphatic NO, he didn’t need to do more. Sure we all see Diggs was open but A) no one knows if he was the first, second, third read and B) if Dawkins holds his block just a half second longer it’s a touchdown 

[Bob Jones]

13 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

On 3rd down yes he could’ve done more, on 2nd down it’s an emphatic NO, he didn’t need to do more. Sure we all see Diggs was open but A) no one knows if he was the first, second, third read and B) if Dawkins holds his block just a half second longer it’s a touchdown 

I have watched the replay of that 2nd down play numerous times, and my opinion is that the bump from Jones/Dawkins was not that strong, and didn’t affect the throw as much as many people think it did. ALSO, could JA have sensed the pressure coming there (it was the ONLY pressure getting close to him) and stepped up a bit, or stepped to the right a bit, to give himself more room, and time, to throw? Of course the answer is YES.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

I have watched the replay of that 2nd down play numerous times, and my opinion is that the bump from Jones/Dawkins was not that strong, and didn’t affect the throw as much as many people think it did. 

Right. The ball just randomly was thrown 10 yards short for no reason at all. 
 

You are definitely in the minority with that opinion including the opinion of former players who have seen the play. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:47 AM, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

This is probably also why he was in Tiger's group at Riviera during the Genesis pro-am a few days ago. That pairing only happens because Tiger wanted it to happen, which speaks volumes about what he thinks of our guy that wears 17.

 

Woods probably catches only a small fraction of Bills games, and he sees what we all see. And what an unbelievable experience that had to be for Josh, playing with your idol at the tourney he hosts!

It was reported and confirmed that Tiger and his people invited Josh. Not the other way around.  That says alot.

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

Not as clutch as Mahomes.

True. But not many are. Also not necessary to get a championship. 

[Bob Jones]

36 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Right. The ball just randomly was thrown 10 yards short for no reason at all. 
 

You are definitely in the minority with that opinion including the opinion of former players who have seen the play. 

Your first sentence above insinuates that JA never makes an inaccurate throw, which of course is nonsense.

 

As for the other sentence, people can also tell me the sky is green, even though I can plainly see that it is blue. So I normally go with what my eyes actually see. 😉

 

Edit to Add: just went and rewatched the 2nd & 9 play AGAIN. The throw lands about 2-3 yards in front of Shakir, in the end zone, NOT TEN YARDS.

Edited February 18 by Bob Jones

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Against the Chiefs, in the final drive, he DID need to do more. On 2nd and 3rd downs, he threw incompletions. If Mahomes was our QB in that situation, he would have thrown a completion (or ran for a 1st down like he did in the SB multiple times), kept the drive moving downfield, and either got close enough for a chip shot FG or got the go ahead TD. If you don’t agree with the latter, you’re lying to yourself.

 

Btw, I’m not a moron, and have been closely watching NFL football for 50+ years, so I have an “educated” opinion. OTOH, regardless of what all these stats say, people who think JA has no faults are blinded by homerism. I understand the latter, but it doesn’t make it right.

I don't buy this.  In the 4th quarter Allen drove the Bills 54 yards in 14 plays using 6:23 BEFORE he threw those 2 incompletions.  On that drive Diggs dropped what would have been at minimum a 60 yard completion.  Allen converted one 3rd down and one 4th down on that drive. The FACT remains that while the ending wasn't perfect Allen put the Bills in position to tie the game with less then 2 minutes remaining.  Missing a 44 yard FG in today's NFL is inexcusable.

 

You are criticizing Allen for not being perfect on that last drive where "perfect" in your mind was to score a TD to go up by 4 with less then 30 seconds to play.  That is an amazingly unrealistic expectation for someone who has been watching football for 50+ years.

 

For nearly three quarters of the Super Bowl Mahomes could only lead his team to 2 FG's while throwing a bad INT.  He was gifted a TD late in the 3rd quarter after a terrible special teams play by the 49's.  The idea that if Mahomes were the Bills QB playing against the KC defense we would have achieved the PERFECT outcome (TD with very little time left) is purely hypothetical.

 

Finally, the charges of "homerism" by you and others because some of us debate what we think are your awful takes on Allen is getting old.  NO ONE is saying Allen is perfect and can't improve his game.  What we are saying is that the extent to which Allen can further improve his game is minuscule compared to the other places that the Bills need to improve their play & coaching.  The problems preventing the Bills from becoming a perennial AFC Championship/Super Bowl games participant and winner has almost nothing to do with Allen and almost everything to do with other aspects of the Bills.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Your first sentence above insinuates that JA never makes an inaccurate throw, which of course is nonsense.

 

As for the other sentence, people can also tell me the sky is green, even though I can plainly see that it is blue. So I normally go with what my eyes actually see. 😉

There you go again.  Where in that sentence does it remotely suggest Allen NEVER makes an inaccurate throw?  Rib's point, which is difficult to rationally dispute is that pressure as Allen released the ball impacted the throw and caused him to miss Shakir.  A reasonable & defensible criticism here is that Allen should have stepped up in the pocket a half second sooner and made the throw. But again you demand PERFECTION from Allen and no one else on the team - it's crazy to me.

 

 

Edited February 18 by CincyBillsFan

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

ALSO, could JA have sensed the pressure coming there (it was the ONLY pressure getting close to him) and stepped up a bit, or stepped to the right a bit, to give himself more room, and time, to throw? Of course the answer is YES.

This. He needs to work on feeling pocket pressure and adjust. Brady was a master at this. Now Mahomes is getting to that level as well. Stepping away from pressure plus all the different delivery angles he has. No reason Allen can’t do all that. Just need to dedicate time to work on it. 

[BearNorth]

On 2/16/2024 at 8:46 AM, finn said:

Screw the defense. Give this man three top receivers, good protection, and a run game, and he will score 75 points a game. 

49'rs have all of that [good wideouts, good O-line, good RB's], and a QB on a 7th round rookie contract.  Tough to do when your QB is highly paid.  Also think that they fleeced Carolina on the Cmac deal.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:54 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

He’s the best in the league and we all know it. Needed to make one more throw and not rely on the field goal. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway with that defense out there crippled.

Exactly. It’s a team sport. Put Allen on the 49ers and he would have a couple rings by now. Beane needs to give him weapons 

[Sweats]

On 2/18/2024 at 9:14 AM, Ya Digg? said:

On 3rd down yes he could’ve done more, on 2nd down it’s an emphatic NO, he didn’t need to do more. Sure we all see Diggs was open but A) no one knows if he was the first, second, third read and B) if Dawkins holds his block just a half second longer it’s a touchdown 

 

 

 

 

A TD with almost 2 minutes on the clock and full timeouts to hand back to Mahomo to work his magic and we think we were in any position to win that game, when our D could do nothing all game long?

 

The way i see it, we were losing that game no matter what we did.