BillsFanForever19 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Einstein said: Maybe you're right. But I always wondered whether McD and Beane were talking to Diggs about his media comments before training camp. Remember when he was sent home by McD and McD said he was "very concerned" etc? I don't think that had anything to do with his offseason game of "keep my name and brand relevant in the media". That was about how the season ended that year. And ultimately about him leaving. My take on the whole thing was he was pissed about the Bengals game plan of using him a decoy and their refusal to shift gears when it wasn't working. He showed up, got into a fight with McDermott, and left. That's where the "concern" was. McDermott then went into damage control and retconned it by saying he was "excused" after he made everything public, causing a media circus. Personally, I agreed with Diggs being angry about the Bengals game plan. He was right. As Diggs has said time and again, unless you hear him come right out and say something, you shouldn't read more into anything. That's what people do around here every year. This year it feels like fans want to do it more than ever bc they're upset with how things ended with him down the stretch and they want him gone. So they're manufacturing things more than ever. Nothing about what he said there is something to get concerned or upset about.... unless you're someone who's looking for reasons to be further upset with him. Edited February 5 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 45 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: A June 1st designation is not a magic wand that gets rid of dead cap. What it does is carry over the dead cap into 2025. So yay, the Bills STILL need to make the same cuts and restructures to get under the cap, and get the money after the top tier (and medium tier) free agents are gone. So, to recap, a Diggs cut: 1) will absolutely not get us under the cap 2) Removes a 1000 yard receiver from the roster 3) If it happens is a back breaker for bidding on new talent in 2025. Some people are going to need to wake up and smell the coffee. The numbers all but guarantee that Diggs will be on the team in 2024. Odds are, he's probably going to be here in 2025 as well. Make your peace with it. 1.) 19 mil is a lot 2.) If Diggs doesn't want to be here, get rid of him 3.) That's why you draft 2-3 WR's in Rounds 1-4. This is the best WR class in a long time! You could package a mid round pick with Diggs and have 2 1st Rounders to play with Imagine coming out this draft with 2 of Brian Thomas Jr / Troy Franklin / Xavier Worthy / Xavier Legette / whoever else you like Edited February 5 by Warriorspikes51 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 28 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: A June 1st designation is not a magic wand that gets rid of dead cap. What it does is carry over the dead cap into 2025. So yay, the Bills STILL need to make the same cuts and restructures to get under the cap, and get the money after the top tier (and medium tier) free agents are gone. So, to recap, a Diggs cut: 1) will absolutely not get us under the cap 2) Removes a 1000 yard receiver from the roster 3) If it happens is a back breaker for bidding on new talent in 2025. Some people are going to need to wake up and smell the coffee. The numbers all but guarantee that Diggs will be on the team in 2024. Odds are, he's probably going to be here in 2025 as well. Make your peace with it. I agree with you on the rest of your post but want to clarify the bolded. Maybe not for you, but others seem to conflate this point. Dead cap is not in addition to, it is in replacement of. So while a high dead cap number is bad in that it is a lot of money to not have a certain player on the roster. It is not necessarily bad when compared to its delta ($3M pre-June 1). Moving on from Diggs either post 6/1 2024 or to open the league year in 2025 isn't delaying anything. They are identical as far as the cap is concerned. It is a net savings for the team. We get $5M off the books if we move on between either of those dates. I don't think Stef will be on the roster to kick the season off in 2025. I think he will and should be on the roster this year. But there is something advantageous about a post June 1 trade now and that is if we don't spend that money ($19M) we can roll that $19M into 2025. Effectively giving the Bills $24M. I also would not be shocked if Mike Evans pulls a OBJ/Hopkins and signs a short term deal late/just before camp. If that became the case I think the Bills will start to ask some questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, Blank Stare said: I know it’s BR, and some of these are a bit pie in the sky, but provided the economics work, I’d be up for just about any one of these trades if he really wants out: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10107846-top-potential-nfl-trade-packages-for-bills-wr-stefon-diggs.amp.html I think Stef will be here next year, but I’d trade him yesterday for Brian Burns (or any of these first round pick ideas). No guarantee you’ll hit, but I’d invest heavy in WR in the draft under this scenario. Highly unlikely Diggs could be traded for anything close to what was suggested in article. However, if Beane could pull off something like that he would be a magician. I would be open to all those deals. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Personally I believe all of the following to be true 1. Diggs would prefer to not be in Buffalo 2. Diggs is an attention seeking drama queen whose act is getting tiresome 3. Diggs will be a Buffalo Bills in 2024 4. Diggs will give his all on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, billieve420 said: Highly unlikely Diggs could be traded for anything close to what was suggested in article. However, if Beane could pull off something like that he would be a magician. I would be open to all those deals. The right team like HOU or DAL with 23 or 24 may be willing to trade that pick for Diggs + 3rd + late rounder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, noacls said: Question Chubbs.if they did that with Diggs wouldn't the be able to roll savings into 25? That would help with the cap hell caused by 40, 27, and 88. This is only if they get Thomas or Franklin at 28 Yes you can always roll over unused cap space so in that sense it would help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: The right team like HOU or DAL with 23 or 24 may be willing to trade that pick for Diggs + 3rd + late rounder Please please let this happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I have a question. I’m not a cap expert. If the Bills trade Diggs isn’t the actual cash paid to Diggs a lot less for the team trading for him? Meaning the team trading for Diggs would get him at a much cheaper cost than what the Bills pay/paid for his services? This would make him a very attractive trade target. Maybe I’m totally incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 28 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: 1.) 19 mil is a lot 2.) If Diggs doesn't want to be here, get rid of him 3.) That's why you draft 2-3 WR's in Rounds 1-4. This is the best WR class in a long time! You could package a mid round pick with Diggs and have 2 1st Rounders to play with Imagine coming out this draft with 2 of Brian Thomas Jr / Troy Franklin / Xavier Worthy / Xavier Legette / whoever else you like OK, gonna blow by blow this 1) Yes. It is. However, and I need to make this a point: THE BILLS CANNOT USE THAT CAP SPACE UNTIL JUNE 1ST So, let's say the Bills pull the plug on their #1 receiver, getting back absolutely nothing for him. When free agency opens, the Bills must conduct their contract negotiations as if Diggs was still on the books for the full $27.8 million. The vast majority of free agents sign within the first month. They still must make roster cuts and restructures as if Diggs is getting the full amount. So great, the Bills now have $19 M to get street free agents. Whoopie, who gives a s*** Then they have to swallow the $19 million in 2025, effectively negating any savings from cutting Von or Knox. 2) This is a manufactured drumbeat. We are in silly season. Show me one direct quote where he says he wants out. 3) Sure. Not gonna fight that. Get a #2 who can take over for Diggs a year or two down the road. Stash a 4th rounder for a year. I could buy the idea that Beane is looking at his current roster, the Diggs contract (along with the Miller and Knox ones) and deciding that 2024 is a wash so they should swallow their medicine to cut or deal in 2025. I can maybe see an outside chance that maybe the Bills wait until training camp or midseason and fleece a team for picks. I doubt it, because that means a year of wasting prime Josh Allen, but I can see a logic to it. Cutting Diggs at the start of 2024 makes no sense. End of story. Not going to happen. 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Yes you can always roll over unused cap space so in that sense it would help. Not..really? I mean I am not a capologist, and there are people who do this full time but whatever would have been freed for a June 1st release would get rolled over to 2025, so we'd have even *less* cap space to deal with Von, Know and Tre. 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I have a question. I’m not a cap expert. If the Bills trade Diggs isn’t the actual cash paid to Diggs a lot less for the team trading for him? Meaning the team trading for Diggs would get him at a much cheaper cost than what the Bills pay/paid for his services? This would make him a very attractive trade target. Maybe I’m totally incorrect. That is true, like how Rasul Douglas looks like a steal for us. The problem is that the Bills would be taking a massive bath on 2024 cap space if done before the draft and a pretty terrible one in 2025. Are you getting multiple 1st round picks for Diggs? Do you believe he could command that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I have a question. I’m not a cap expert. If the Bills trade Diggs isn’t the actual cash paid to Diggs a lot less for the team trading for him? Meaning the team trading for Diggs would get him at a much cheaper cost than what the Bills pay/paid for his services? This would make him a very attractive trade target. Maybe I’m totally incorrect. Looks like his base salary is $18-19m the next three years… which would be picked up by he new team . No guarantees after 2024 …so you can move on after that… It’s not big WR money anymore ….but questionable if his form over the second half of the season warrants that… I’d be thinking more like a third round pick would be the ceiling for what his trade value would be for a team to roll the dice … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 18 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Not..really? I mean I am not a capologist, and there are people who do this full time but whatever would have been freed for a June 1st release would get rolled over to 2025, so we'd have even *less* cap space to deal with Von, Know and Tre. No, you can rollover any unused cap space the next year no matter what. By 4PM the day after the regular season finale, teams have to let the NFL know what unused cap space they are rolling over. So if we free up $19 million and don't use it we can roll that over to 2025 which would help to mitigate the $22 million dead cap hit we'd have for Diggs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsabillsfanz Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) One more question for cap experts . Can Buffalo negotiate a Diggs trade where the other team takes on at least some of Diggs dead cap $? If that’s possible, wouldn’t it be worth taking a lower round draft pick for Diggs if it significantly reduced the dead cap hit. Edited February 5 by Tulsabillsfanz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 ...I mean, yes but then what's the point? You free up $19 million at the start of summer that the team isn't going to spend to make up for the cap difference you'd have got my just waiting a year and keeping Diggs on the roster and cutting him then. The only way it makes sense is if a god tier WR somehow makes it to June 1st without being signed 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: No, you can rollover any unused cap space the next year no matter what. By 4PM the day after the regular season finale, teams have to let the NFL know what unused cap space they are rolling over. So if we free up $19 million and don't use it we can roll that over to 2025 which would help to mitigate the $22 million dead cap hit we'd have for Diggs. Just now, Tulsabillsfanz said: One more question for cap e parts. Can Buffalo negotiate a Diggs trade where the other team takes on at least some of Diggs dead cap $? If that’s possible, wouldn’t it be worth taking a lower round draft pick for Diggs if it significantly reduced the dead cap hit. Nope. Dead cap is money already paid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said: 1.) 19 mil is a lot 2.) If Diggs doesn't want to be here, get rid of him 3.) That's why you draft 2-3 WR's in Rounds 1-4. This is the best WR class in a long time! You could package a mid round pick with Diggs and have 2 1st Rounders to play with Imagine coming out this draft with 2 of Brian Thomas Jr / Troy Franklin / Xavier Worthy / Xavier Legette / whoever else you like Diggs hasn't said he doesn't want to be here. People who want him gone are just hearing what they want to here. On the contrary, a media member who has talked to Bills sources have said that he DOES want to be hear. As has been said, any money saved this season won't be able to be used until after June 1st. So you're getting rid of your WR1 and relying solely on Rookies to replace him. Draft prospects are fun to think about this time of year. But less than half are going to hit right off the bat. Josh has chemistry with Diggs that has been built up over years. It's less than a given that a Rookie is going to acclimate to the speed of the game immediately and Josh will be on the same page with them immediately. Look at Kincaid for example. He caught on quicker than others, but even he didn't get hot until the end of the season. Same with Rashee Rice for the Chiefs. Two of those players would be nice. But at the expense of a solid, known commodity? I don't think so. The idea of our WR core being two rookies, Shakir, and Shorter (essentially another Rookie), and what little we can afford in FA is just too much uncertainty for me. Maybe it would work out great. Or maybe both players bust or take a while to develop and we're in an even worse position than last year. Edited February 5 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Diggs hasn't said he doesn't want to be here. People who want him gone are just hearing what they want to here. On the contrary, a media member who has talked to Bills sources have said that he DOES want to be here. “Are you going to be part of the Buffalo Bills next year ?” “ I don’t know …” How hard is it to say “yes ,,, and I’m looking forward to it “… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: “Are you going to be part of the Buffalo Bills next year ?” “ I don’t know …” How hard is it to say “yes ,,, and I’m looking forward to it “… Let’s be honest, even if he did say yes, the people who want him gone would sit here and say “yeah but we all know the truth” so why difference does it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Ya Digg? said: Let’s be honest, even if he did say yes, the people who want him gone would sit here and say “yeah but we all know the truth” so why difference does it make? Would anyone be talking about it today ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Would anyone be talking about it today ? Absolutely, you don’t think there would be arguments over whether his statement was genuine and/or true or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 We will know more between March 11th and the 13th. Unless Beane moves his base salary to a bonus again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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