Einstein's Dog Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 6 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: We are drafting 28th. And I remember Brady making his wr's better. Exactly The 28th spot for the majority of us is being reserved for the Gabe Davis replacement. So with that in mind, how are we going to be better this year if we move Diggs? And I don't remember Brady in a year when the Pats* started two rookie WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 52 minutes ago, FireChans said: Nah, I think he’s declining. Not sure if he sucks yet. We will likely see in 2024 if his last ten games were an aberration or a reflection of his current ability. However, this phenomenon is well documented. If a player is purported to be “run out of town,” they do obviously suck. EJ got “ran out of town.” It’s the kiss of death for a career. Arguing that Diggs is being run out of town by the fans is very bad. The sister clause is “if there’s a huge amount topics about you being a franchise QB, you aren’t one.” When was the last time Josh had a “is he the guy” topic? Probably 2019? How many did Tyrod and Fitz get? Thousands. How many did Fields get? Thousands. Not always Lynch was ran out of town. He had his own issues but talent wasn’t one of them. If team deems player too big of a headache for what they bring to team they will look to move on. Teams that make any decisions based on what the fans think shouldn’t be in charge in the first place. Essentially if Diggs is no longer worth keeping they could look to get rid of him post June 1st. Don’t see it happening and they most likely look to part ways next year if salary no longer meets production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: On the flip side, the last year at Green Bay, A Rodgers did not make the playoffs- they were rebuilding. Rodgers simply wasn't a franchise QB anymore. He got old (which is why it was ludicrous for NYJ to pay him all that money). The last third of that season he had fallen off to such a point that he threw 7 TD's and 5 INT's in those games. It was at that point that they saw the writing on the wall and deciding to move toward Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, SCBills said: Yea, this is not it, but even if it was.. his play on the field last year didn’t come close to warranting his $$$. What do NFL teams usually do when that becomes the case? They move on, if possible. For us, it may or may not be possible. My guess.. Diggs is available, but due to the cap pain we’d face by trading him, it has to be worth it .. and I’m guessing we’ve gotten offers that aren’t worth it. Props to him for owning up publicly to the drop against KC.. a big part of my change in view from him post-CIN (favorable) to post-KC (unfavorable) is that he doesn’t step up in the biggest moments and, on top of it, seems incapable of owning up to that. Seeing some self-reflection from him is a welcome sight.. now if he’s here this season and could step up in a big playoff moment, that would be great. *In your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 5 minutes ago, Einstein said: Rodgers simply wasn't a franchise QB anymore. He got old (which is why it was ludicrous for NYJ to pay him all that money). The last third of that season he had fallen off to such a point that he threw 7 TD's and 5 INT's in those games. It was at that point that they saw the writing on the wall and deciding to move toward Love. Kind of circular out of you. A HOF QB is a franchise QB. That franchise QB was put in a rebuild type situation with rookie WRs (and no D Adams) - the result was not pretty. This, obviously, is a possibility, and it's up to the FO to make sure it doesn't happen. So lets please stop with the "all you need is Josh" nonsense. It's a team sport. Lets try and remember Josh pre-Diggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Just now, Einstein's Dog said: Kind of circular out of you. A HOF QB is a franchise QB. That franchise QB was put in a rebuild type situation with rookie WRs (and no D Adams) - the result was not pretty. This, obviously, is a possibility, and it's up to the FO to make sure it doesn't happen. So lets please stop with the "all you need is Josh" nonsense. It's a team sport. Lets try and remember Josh pre-Diggs. Allen pre Diggs was an ascending superstar, it was pretty easy to see 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Allen pre Diggs was an ascending superstar, it was pretty easy to see But it's hard to see the Bills listed as a contender if their starting WRs are penciled in as: WR1 rookie, WR2 - Samuel, WR3- Shakir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Allen pre Diggs was an ascending superstar, it was pretty easy to see Imo, there’s also the factor of diminishing returns. I firmly believe that Allen needed Diggs much more in 2020 than he does now. There’s plenty of QB’s that benefitted from an elite target earlier in their career, but needed it less as time went on. Stafford got a lot better post Megatron. Brady had Moss for those few elite seasons, then made due with a relatively rag tag WR group. Mahomes got better as a QB without Tyreek. If you had the choice between Diggs (still assuming elite play) or Tee Higgins + Devonta Smith, who would you take in 2024. For me, it’s option 2 by a mile. I’d rather surround Allen with a bunch of good targets than 1 great one and a bunch of bums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) At least all the posters in this thread spreading misinformation and fake drama have totally exposed their agenda is all total BS just to manufacturer a narrative to try and manipulate other "fans" to join their minority of their PERSONAL desire for Diggs to be traded. Ironic thing is that THEY are actually the drama, not Diggs. So that is at least one good thing is that the same few keep posting and further exposing their agenda. And yet there is no actual evidence of any drama of Diggs wanting out or the Bills actively trying to trade him. Edited March 17 by Alphadawg7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: At least all the posters in this thread spreading misinformation and fake drama have totally exposed their agenda is all total BS just to manufacturer a narrative to try and manipulate other "fans" to join their minority of their PERSONAL desire for Diggs to be traded. Ironic thing is that THEY are actually the drama, not Diggs. So that is at least one good thing is that the same few keep posting and further exposing their agenda. Despite the stupidity of this thread title, there is no actual evidence of any drama of Diggs wanting out or the Bills actively trying to trade him. He knows his posts cause NFL circles to run wild with speculation. He does it anyway. You’re right, his weird vibes - on and off X - combined with his meh play when we’ve needed him are why I want him traded. It’s not personal.. I don’t know him. He plays for my team and he’s not as good as he thinks he is when it matters. Fans simping for him like everyone else is crazy are just as annoying to us as those like me who want him gone for shrinking in big moments are to you. Edited March 17 by SCBills 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: At least all the posters in this thread spreading misinformation and fake drama have totally exposed their agenda is all total BS just to manufacturer a narrative to try and manipulate other "fans" to join their minority of their PERSONAL desire for Diggs to be traded. Ironic thing is that THEY are actually the drama, not Diggs. So that is at least one good thing is that the same few keep posting and further exposing their agenda. Lucky for everyone else there is no actual evidence of any drama of Diggs wanting out or the Bills actively trying to trade him. my 'agenda' of hoping the Bills make moves I think help win a Super Bowl has been totally exposed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 13 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: Kind of circular out of you. Wasn't circular at all. My argument is that there are no rebuilds when you have a franchise QB. You always make a run for the Super Bowl, every year. You responded by talking about a team that had a nearly 40 year old, rapidly declining QB, that was once great but is no longer considered a top tier NFL player. Perhaps you are confused by my definition of "franchise" QB. To me, that is not just a guy you have for a while. Its meaning is a top tier NFL QB. 13 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: A HOF QB is a franchise QB. Is Jim Kelly a franchise QB right now? Of course not. But he was once. Age diminishes skill. Just as it did with Rodgers. There is a reason why the Jets are the only team in the entire NFL who was interested in trading for him. 10 years ago, there would have been half a dozen suitors all bidding against each other for Rodgers services. But there wasnt last year - because he was turning 40 years old and the NFL had seen a decline in his play. 13 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: Lets try and remember Josh pre-Diggs. You mean like when he took the team to the playoffs in his second year and had 350+ yards by himself against Houston in a game where McD's defense crapped the bed on the final drive? A game where we were up by 2 scores at one point? The game where his top receivers were John Brown and Duke Williams? Diggs didn't make Allen. Just like Hill didn't make Mahomes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: At least all the posters in this thread spreading misinformation and fake drama have totally exposed their agenda is all total BS just to manufacturer a narrative to try and manipulate other "fans" to join their minority of their PERSONAL desire for Diggs to be traded. Ironic thing is that THEY are actually the drama, not Diggs. So that is at least one good thing is that the same few keep posting and further exposing their agenda. And yet there is no actual evidence of any drama of Diggs wanting out or the Bills actively trying to trade him. @Einstein 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: my 'agenda' of hoping the Bills make moves I think help win a Super Bowl has been totally exposed Very insidious of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: At least all the posters in this thread spreading misinformation and fake drama have totally exposed their agenda is all total BS just to manufacturer a narrative to try and manipulate other "fans" to join their minority of their PERSONAL desire for Diggs to be traded. Ironic thing is that THEY are actually the drama, not Diggs. So that is at least one good thing is that the same few keep posting and further exposing their agenda. And yet there is no actual evidence of any drama of Diggs wanting out or the Bills actively trying to trade him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: Imo, there’s also the factor of diminishing returns. I firmly believe that Allen needed Diggs much more in 2020 than he does now. There’s plenty of QB’s that benefitted from an elite target earlier in their career, but needed it less as time went on. Stafford got a lot better post Megatron. Brady had Moss for those few elite seasons, then made due with a relatively rag tag WR group. Mahomes got better as a QB without Tyreek. If you had the choice between Diggs (still assuming elite play) or Tee Higgins + Devonta Smith, who would you take in 2024. For me, it’s option 2 by a mile. I’d rather surround Allen with a bunch of good targets than 1 great one and a bunch of bums. If I could be sure that I was getting Higgins and Smith, sure. But what if instead it was a choice between Diggs and Jalen Reagor + Laviska Shenault? Kadarius Toney was a can't-miss prospect as was Elijah Moore. People are talking as if there are 15 future hall of fame WRs in this draft. History tells us that is not possible, and drafting at 28 you are just as likely to get a bust as a star. So, I want them to take that chance but to keep the sure 1,000 yards of production so as to not waste a year. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 6 minutes ago, Einstein said: Wasn't circular at all. My argument is that there are no rebuilds when you have a franchise QB. You always make a run for the Super Bowl, every year. You responded by talking about a team that had a nearly 40 year old, rapidly declining QB, that was once great but is no longer considered a top tier NFL player. Perhaps you are confused by my definition of "franchise" QB. To me, that is not just a guy you have for a while. Its meaning is a top tier NFL QB. I Age diminishes skill. Just as it did with Rodgers. There is a reason why the Jets are the only team in the entire NFL who was interested in trading for him. 10 years ago, there would have been half a dozen suitors all bidding against each other for Rodgers services. But there wasnt last year - because he was turning 40 years old and the NFL had seen a decline in his play. A Rodgers was a franchise QB while he was at Green Bay. There were more than just the Jets interested in his services, it was the Jets that were the highest bidders. He got more than Brady on the open market. Point is, it's a team sport. Good QBs can be on non-contenders. The idea of moving Diggs this offseason after moving on from Davis would not be smart. Replace Davis and worry about Diggs next year is just such a smarter strategy. The cap hit is less, and the progression makes more sense. Lets see how our first rookie does before penciling in major minutes for two unknowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 11 minutes ago, Einstein said: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: But it's hard to see the Bills listed as a contender if their starting WRs are penciled in as: WR1 rookie, WR2 - Samuel, WR3- Shakir. 1. I really dig your name 😁 2. It doesn't matter what experts think. To me this is a re tool year. Draft great, get the kids some reps. Do free agency smart and contend in 25'. I still think we are good enough to make the playoffs, but contend? Who knows. I feel there is no one on the DL in this draft that screams superstar. We should have offered our #2 for Mack if we were going all in again. I'm not thrilled with the DE class, but I love me the 2 DT's from Texas. Edited March 17 by SoonerBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 12 minutes ago, Low Positive said: If I could be sure that I was getting Higgins and Smith, sure. But what if instead it was a choice between Diggs and Jalen Reagor + Laviska Shenault? Kadarius Toney was a can't-miss prospect as was Elijah Moore. People are talking as if there are 15 future hall of fame WRs in this draft. History tells us that is not possible, and drafting at 28 you are just as likely to get a bust as a star. So, I want them to take that chance but to keep the sure 1,000 yards of production so as to not waste a year. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take. Toney was not CANT miss. Neither was Shenault. Or Reagor. Or Moore. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 1 minute ago, FireChans said: I want to give this post like 3-5 emojis lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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