Kurt Warner All22

[Scott7975]

It's in two parts about a half hour each but well worth the watch.

 

 

 

[Bob Jones]

Just watched part 1. My takeaways: the Bills' play designs suck (Warner even notes this), the Bills' receivers are not that good at separating from their defenders, and KC's secondary played very good/disciplined defense. Just as we've seen throughout the year, some of those plays put multiple receivers very close to each other down the field...not good.

Edited January 24 by Bob Jones
Grammar

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Just now, Bob Jones said:

Just watched part 1. My takeaways: the Bills' play designs suck, the Bills' receivers are not that good at separating from their defenders, and KC's secondary played very good/disciplined defense. Juat as we've seen throught the year, some of those plays put multiple receivers very close to each other...not good.

 

Hoping Brady designs is much better than Dorsey playbook. If he is OC.

[since79]

Watched both, good insight. Warner played under a different offense(Air Coryell). Although there were option routes they did not vary as much as the EP offense. 

From wiki.

”The Coryell offense is a combination of deep and mid range passing and power running. The offense relies on getting all five receivers out into patterns that combined stretched the field, setting up defensive backs with route technique, and the quarterback throwing to a spot on time where the receiver can catch and turn upfield. Pass protection is critical to success because at least two of the five receivers will run a deep in, skinny post, comeback, speed out, or shallow cross.”

 

What our offense lacks is route technique and discipline.   This is why you get guys so close they could be covered with a blanket.  What was quite obvious in the videos is this.  What you also see is the absence of guys making themself available. How many times do you see Allen with the ball and EVERY receiver with their back to him.

 

I think part of our lack of YAC can be due to Allen having to see the break, having to see how the receiver read the leverage. The miscues to Davis were anticipation misread throws.  This is why he holds the ball so long and has to create out of the pocket.

 

Maybe we need to reduce the read leverage concepts. Have some routes that are defined and have at least one guy always available. In the EP offense the route options are supposed to create unpredictability and variability. In another post I talked about defenders, if they know how our receivers will read leverage can force the decision to the route they want that is easier to defend.  In Warner’s analysis you could see KC may have been doing it.  He talks about how our receivers don’t force the leverage to their advantage. Again I said elsewhere it looks like we take the path of least resistance and are lazy with rounding of routes. 
 

We can benefit from some simplification and dedication to precision in our routes.  Allen cannot demand it out of his guys like Brady did ( he had a benefit of winning and a coach who demanded perfection).  Allen is too nice a guy and wants to be one of the boys.  We need someone on the O side to take that role. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Save yourselves some time.  The Bills have horrible route runners.  End of discussion.  

[Matt_In_NH]

50 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

KC's secondary played very good/disciplined defense

Joe Marino's breakdown of the all 22 concluded the Bills threw short all day because that is what was there, KC's defense took stuff down the field away.  Btw, they are an incredible defense, that seems to get lost in the mix as people just talk Josh and Mahomes and Bills injuries.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, since79 said:

Watched both, good insight. Warner played under a different offense(Air Coryell). Although there were option routes they did not vary as much as the EP offense. 

From wiki.

”The Coryell offense is a combination of deep and mid range passing and power running. The offense relies on getting all five receivers out into patterns that combined stretched the field, setting up defensive backs with route technique, and the quarterback throwing to a spot on time where the receiver can catch and turn upfield. Pass protection is critical to success because at least two of the five receivers will run a deep in, skinny post, comeback, speed out, or shallow cross.”

 

What our offense lacks is route technique and discipline.   This is why you get guys so close they could be covered with a blanket.  What was quite obvious in the videos is this.  What you also see is the absence of guys making themself available. How many times do you see Allen with the ball and EVERY receiver with their back to him.

 

I think part of our lack of YAC can be due to Allen having to see the break, having to see how the receiver read the leverage. The miscues to Davis were anticipation misread throws.  This is why he holds the ball so long and has to create out of the pocket.

 

Maybe we need to reduce the read leverage concepts. Have some routes that are defined and have at least one guy always available. In the EP offense the route options are supposed to create unpredictability and variability. In another post I talked about defenders, if they know how our receivers will read leverage can force the decision to the route they want that is easier to defend.  In Warner’s analysis you could see KC may have been doing it.  He talks about how our receivers don’t force the leverage to their advantage. Again I said elsewhere it looks like we take the path of least resistance and are lazy with rounding of routes. 
 

We can benefit from some simplification and dedication to precision in our routes.  Allen cannot demand it out of his guys like Brady did ( he had a benefit of winning and a coach who demanded perfection).  Allen is too nice a guy and wants to be one of the boys.  We need someone on the O side to take that role. 

 

It's been obvious just watching it over the past two months too.  

 

 

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Save yourselves some time.  The Bills have horrible route runners.  End of discussion.  

 

Your statement about the route runners is true.  The Bills need better receivers and maybe better coaching on the routes.  However, I think it's worth the watch for people to understand how bad it really is and how much harder Josh Allen's job is compared to other QBs.

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Your statement about the route runners is true.  The Bills need better receivers and maybe better coaching on the routes.  However, I think it's worth the watch for people to understand how bad it really is and how much harder Josh Allen's job is compared to other QBs.

 

A whole lot of that is creating your plays, play-calling, and overall scheme to match the talents of your WRs.  

 

Beyond that it's a Beane issue.  But hey, when you never draft a WR on days 1 or 2, ... 

 

As they say, you'll never hit unless you buy a ticket.  

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Your statement about the route runners is true.  The Bills need better receivers and maybe better coaching on the routes.  However, I think it's worth the watch for people to understand how bad it really is and how much harder Josh Allen's job is compared to other QBs.

I do agree.  Just sarcasm and being bitter.  It is worth the watch

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You watch this and should be amazed how Josh gets anything out of these dead plays. 

[JMM]

Ok my question is, is this route concept and design? In which case is that more on Brady? Or, are these option routes, where then that's more on the players in terms of poor decisions and route running? I seem to remember that Dorsey offense had a lot of option routes.  Anybody think they can tell? Thanks!

[Brand J]

Final 2nd & 9 and 3rd & 9 really illustrate how Josh got out of taking what the defense was giving him versus wanting to go for the kill shot TD. Both plays had available receivers for potential first down yardage. But, as Warner says, up until that point he had played virtually perfect football. To beat another QB playing close to perfect, it would’ve taken perfection all throughout. The lapse got us. To be clear, I don’t blame Josh, I blame the sieve of a defense. It’d be interesting to see how often we disrupted their routes. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Joe Marino's breakdown of the all 22 concluded the Bills threw short all day because that is what was there, KC's defense took stuff down the field away.  Btw, they are an incredible defense, that seems to get lost in the mix as people just talk Josh and Mahomes and Bills injuries.

Twice the Bills struck deep and Allen hit the WR in the hands.  BOTH were incomplete.  In a game where you must be patient Allen exhibited unnatural patience. The WR must make the catch on those two throws.  They would have been game changing.

 

[Steptide]

I didn't watch either part, but I think it's been obvious to most fans that their concepts have been crap since Dorsey took over. I don't know how much Brady could've possibly changed being thrown into the roll mid season. They need a serious offensive scheme over hall this offseason

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

And so much harder for OL due to Josh.

[Best Williams Available]

Why are people advocating for Brady as OC if this is what’s on tape? If he inherited bad routes from Dorsey a good OC wouldn’t keep them, right? If the excuse is our WRs, sorry but Shakir and Diggs are sufficient route runners and it was still figured out. Maybe he’s not the upgrade we think. How can you trust an OC that can’t manufacture production from Stef Diggs apart from LOS WR screens?

[Gunsgoodtime]

12 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

Why are people advocating for Brady as OC if this is what’s on tape? If he inherited bad routes from Dorsey a good OC wouldn’t keep them, right? If the excuse is our WRs, sorry but Shakir and Diggs are sufficient route runners and it was still figured out. Maybe he’s not the upgrade we think. How can you trust an OC that can’t manufacture production from Stef Diggs apart from LOS WR screens?

Well he can't exactly catch the ball for Diggs

Edited January 24 by Gunsgoodtime

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Well he can't exactly catch the ball for Diggs

Agree . 

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Just watched part 1. My takeaways: the Bills' play designs suck (Warner even notes this), the Bills' receivers are not that good at separating from their defenders, and KC's secondary played very good/disciplined defense. Just as we've seen throughout the year, some of those plays put multiple receivers very close to each other down the field...not good.

KC has s great D this year, that should be accounted for