8th late-game defensive meltdown this season

[Bruffalo]

37 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Maybe I should have had the statement "this failure is a team effort, Josh included". Josh gets all the excuses. 8 games in a row with a pick. Can't keep doing that. 

You can if you're throwing 40+ times a game, and scoring rushing TDs at an unmatched rate and are a top rusher for your team. 

 

The average NFL game ends around 20-17.  The average number of points scored by both teams is 46.  If you're scoring 30 points you should win the game. This was a failure on the defense and the head coach primarily.  It's a false equivalence to say the offense has equal blame.  

[PatsFanNH]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:24 AM, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

Pats game they were not good the entire game. That was the worst D game I have seen by the Bills this year.

 

Jets- come on man! Allen was god awful that game and special teams lost that game.

 

Cincy — Had Burrow and Chase and we’re playing well. Hard stop them when they are in a groove. 
 

Jax — I didn’t get to see so so will let you have that one.

 

Giants — umm the O scored only 14 points against a bad D!  That game shouldn’t have been that close.. so blaming a D that gave up less than 10 points is odd. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is bat feces crazy talk.  The suggestion that the INT against the Eagles was a killer when Allen drove the Bills down for what should have been the winning TD in the last 2 minutes is beyond stupid.

 

I guess by responding to you I'm feeding the trolls but damn there are a lot of trolls on 2BD recently.

 

Maybe I should have had the statement "this failure is a team effort, Josh included". Josh gets all the excuses. 8 games in a row with a pick. Can't keep doing that. 

As for bat feces crazy talk, are you suggesting that pick, at our 25 yd line didn't hurt our efforts in the game? It was killer. There is a reason Josh had to drive us down for the game winning TD. He had a hand in those 7 points Philly scored there. We lost by 3 points, that turnover was killer.

I'm one of the most "half glass full" posters here. I'm merely pointing out how Josh gets no blame when he had a direct hand in the loss. A lot of people use the troll moniker when a Josh mistake is brought up. Hardly a troll. I love Josh as our QB, but when he makes a mistake and it's called out "troll" is brought up. Some here act like he craps golden eggs or something. It's ok to call him out like we do to others. It really is.

[JohnNord]

49 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Nice backtrack, but I directly quoted you saying this: "You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB".  Your words, not mine.

 

Sounds pretty "binary" to me, son.

Oooh you really caught me!  Like I said, context matter

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Pats game they were not good the entire game. That was the worst D game I have seen by the Bills this year.

 

Jets- come on man! Allen was god awful that game and special teams lost that game.

 

Cincy — Had Burrow and Chase and we’re playing well. Hard stop them when they are in a groove. 
 

Jax — I didn’t get to see so so will let you have that one.

 

Giants — umm the O scored only 14 points against a bad D!  That game shouldn’t have been that close.. so blaming a D that gave up less than 10 points is odd. 

People don’t want to blame Josh or the players, so McDermott is the easiest target and will get blamed for everything since “he’s the head coach!”

 

I’d agree with your points.  Especially the NE game.  Injuries really killed the defense and it started with the front 7.  

[PatsFanNH]

15 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

People don’t want to blame Josh or the players, so McDermott is the easiest target and will get blamed for everything since “he’s the head coach!”

 

I’d agree with your points.  Especially the NE game.  Injuries really killed the defense and it started with the front 7.  

It always falls on the HC, because you can’t fire the entire team but you can fire the HC. Trust me I’m waiting for the word BB has been let go up here in NE and if anyone earned good will it’s a guy who was HC for 9 SB appearances.

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

You can if you're throwing 40+ times a game, and scoring rushing TDs at an unmatched rate and are a top rusher for your team. 

 

The average NFL game ends around 20-17.  The average number of points scored by both teams is 46.  If you're scoring 30 points you should win the game. This was a failure on the defense and the head coach primarily.  It's a false equivalence to say the offense has equal blame.  

Unmatched rate?!?!? 15 td passes to 9 ints in the past 8 games. 😂

 

The league leader in turnovers 3 years straight and that's not a problem?!? Since 2020 he's thrown more picks than Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff. You name him and Josh has him beat. That pick in the Philly game was VERY costly. It was in the 4th qtr, at OUR 25 yd line. We HAD the lead at the time.  

[Bruffalo]

17 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Unmatched rate?!?!? 15 td passes to 9 ints in the past 8 games. 😂

 

The league leader in turnovers 3 years straight and that's not a problem?!? Since 2020 he's thrown more picks than Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff. You name him and Josh has him beat. That pick in the Philly game was VERY costly. It was in the 4th qtr, at OUR 25 yd line. We HAD the lead at the time.  

"scoring rushing TDs at an unmatched rate" is what I said that you conveniently ignored.

 

He's scored more touchdowns than anyone. You'd have a point if that wasn't the case. The pick was costly, then we marched down the field and took the lead again.  Know what was more costly? The defense failing to get two stops in a row to end the game.

 

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Bruffalo said:

You can if you're throwing 40+ times a game, and scoring rushing TDs at an unmatched rate and are a top rusher for your team. 

 

The average NFL game ends around 20-17.  The average number of points scored by both teams is 46.  If you're scoring 30 points you should win the game. This was a failure on the defense and the head coach primarily.  It's a false equivalence to say the offense has equal blame.  

 

The offense left three TDs off the board, the Cook drop, and the Sh/t twin and Gabe running the wrong routes.  We needed just one of those plays, and we win.

[Billsfan1972]

59 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The offense left three TDs off the board, the Cook drop, and the Sh/t twin and Gabe running the wrong routes.  We needed just one of those plays, and we win.

The D did not make a stop when needed.  This is an old story.  Yep 0-6 in OT too because not a single D stop.

[Bruffalo]

58 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The offense left three TDs off the board, the Cook drop, and the Sh/t twin and Gabe running the wrong routes.  We needed just one of those plays, and we win.

We needed McDermott to call a competent 4th quarter and we win. 32nd in the league during the 4th quarter over the last 8 games from our defensive head coach. 
 

Instead of blaming the side of the ball who got the lead with 1:45 left on the clock let’s call a spade a spade here.
 

If the offense needs to be so much better then the defense is in the dumpster. 

[Freddie's Dead]

29 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

We needed McDermott to call a competent 4th quarter and we win. 32nd in the league during the 4th quarter over the last 8 games from our defensive head coach. 
 

Instead of blaming the side of the ball who got the lead with 1:45 left on the clock let’s call a spade a spade here.
 

If the offense needs to be so much better then the defense is in the dumpster. 

 

Dave Mason time.  Both O and D came up a play short.

 

[Jauronimo]

56 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

We needed McDermott to call a competent 4th quarter and we win. 32nd in the league during the 4th quarter over the last 8 games from our defensive head coach. 
 

Instead of blaming the side of the ball who got the lead with 1:45 left on the clock let’s call a spade a spade here.
 

If the offense needs to be so much better then the defense is in the dumpster. 

Why can't we blame the side that played from behind for 58 minutes while turning the ball over, forcing our defense to defend short fields, and generally doing nothing productive?  The offense was SUPPOSED to be so much better than it was.  Good offense beats good defense in the modern NFL.  The offense was a healthy unit with a top 3 QB and was struggling to keep pace with Tyrod, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, and whatever is left of Russ Wilson.  The offense was equal to or worse than the "dumpster" defense missing half its starters during the losing streak.  

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The D did not make a stop when needed.  This is an old story.  Yep 0-6 in OT too because not a single D stop.

Offense can score 6 sometimes.  Its allowed. Other teams do it to us.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Why can't we blame the side that played from behind for 58 minutes while turning the ball over, forcing our defense to defend short fields, and generally doing nothing productive?  The offense was SUPPOSED to be so much better than it was.  Good offense beats good defense in the modern NFL.  The offense was a healthy unit with a top 3 QB and was struggling to keep pace with Tyrod, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, and whatever is left of Russ Wilson.  The offense was equal to or worse than the "dumpster" defense missing half its starters during the losing streak.  

Offense can score 6 sometimes.  Its allowed. Other teams do it to us.

And that absolves the defence who has not made a single stop?  

 

I don’t  particularly care who is the Offensive or Defensive coordinator, as eventually the buck stops at the HC.

[TampaBillsJunkie]

I'm flat out disgusted with the teams performance this year. Inexcusable.

[HappyDays]

Just saw this on Twitter:

 

When we have a 1 score lead with 2 minutes or less remaining in regulation we are giving up an approximately 85% series conversion rate... which is worst in the league.

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Just saw this on Twitter:

 

When we have a 1 score lead with 2 minutes or less remaining in regulation we are giving up an approximately 85% series conversion rate... which is worst in the league.

This is a sample size of what?

[HappyDays]

53 minutes ago, FireChans said:

This is a sample size of what?

 

The y-axis is sample size. For us 6 games.

[Georgia Bill]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:40 AM, technobot said:

Injuries notwithstanding, we DOMINATED TOP yesterday:

 

40:30 (Bills) 26:53 (Eagles

 

Yet I had seen this movie before. The defense stopped making stops in the fourth quarter. Give them credit for holding the line, and tip my hat to Elliott for making an all-time kick.

 

But this kind of performance predates McDermott, it was a drought special. We've all seen it a million times. Defense plays above expectations for 3/4 of the game giving us a chance. They get trampled at the end anyway as the other side simply pulls away. Patriots with Brady were particularly cruel with this kind of letdown.

 

The difference is we clearly have a franchise quarterback. Like, Romo doesn't even try to hide his giant ***** man crush for Allen anymore. Two weeks ago he casually dropped "one of the all-time greats" referring to Allen, a player who is 27!!! You can hear Romo coaching Allen during the broadcasts because he knows #17 was sent to us on a rocket ship and the last son of Krypton is being wasted. He knows Allen is capable of being the most dominant player in the league.

 

Sincerely, thank you Sean McDermott for getting us to another tier. Hopefully we find the right OFFENSIVE coach to maximize our HOF QB's career.

I agree that our D looked great against Philly til about the middle of the 3rd quarter, and things started going downhill.  To your point we've seen the defense get soft at the end of games too many times before, leading to losses.  I just wonder what the cause of that is - is it a conditioning issue (tiring out), or is it that the opposing team figures out what we're doing and adjusts?  If it is the latter then what is apparent is that we don't counter adjust and then we get reamed.   

 

I'm mostly curious about your last sentence.  If the defense is the problem - why do we need an offensive minded coach?   We go through this a lot on this board : "it's the offense" or "it's the defense".  Last year there was talk that we should just focus completely on making the offense so strong it couldn't be stopped.  Now we're wanting the defense to be better.  It takes a balance of both and we'll never be a great team with just a great D or great O if the other side is lacking.

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Pats game they were not good the entire game. That was the worst D game I have seen by the Bills this year.

 

Jets- come on man! Allen was god awful that game and special teams lost that game.

 

Cincy — Had Burrow and Chase and we’re playing well. Hard stop them when they are in a groove. 
 

Jax — I didn’t get to see so so will let you have that one.

 

Giants — umm the O scored only 14 points against a bad D!  That game shouldn’t have been that close.. so blaming a D that gave up less than 10 points is odd. 

I am talking about ends of games. The defense made precisely zero stops vs the Jets in the last quarter and allowed them to convert a fourth on their final possession to bleed clock, preventing the Bills from trying for a TD in regulation. Allen and ST were bad, but the defense made precisely zero plays in the final quarter too.