Why is this team, and staff, so dumb?

[Bermuda Triangle]

Why must the same mistakes be made over and over and over again?  Is there any accountability for the players and coaches?

 

Examples:

1. Gabe Davis fumbles against NYG 2 weeks ago, because he failed to shift the ball from his inside hand to outside hand.  He did the same thing today, in the second quarter.  This is basic, fundamental football.

2. Taron Johnson:  how many weeks in a row has he committed a crucial penalty on 3rd or 4th down?

3.  How many times does McDermott need to see Taron Johnson get beat on the same play in the end zone?

4. Dorsey, and his affinity for the shotgun on 3rd and short plays, deep in enemy territory.  Second time in 3 weeks.  

5. The horrible job on the Hail Mary - again.  Got burned on Hail Murray, and almost inexplicably, the very next week (maybe the Chargers?)

6. Dumb penalties, poor tackling and lack of discipline.

 

Why did McDermott have the offense take its foot off of the gas after the score became 24-10?  With this defense - its lack of playmakers and anemic pass rush - the margin of error will be thin, so it's imperative that the offense score early AND often.  This game shouldn't have been close.  

[WotAGuy]

The game was scripted for the Bills to win; McD was tasked with making it look close. Mission accomplished.  
#NFLisrigged

[Franco_92]

It is absolutely insane that Bills fans think there is something uniquely horrifying about the way their team wins games. It makes every place you can go to read about the Bills on the internet completely insufferable. 

 

Tonight is a game that looked EXACTLY like the VAST MAJORITY of games (especially Thursday games) between a good team and a decent team. This was an ARCHETYPE of an NFL football game. And your team won! ***** enjoy it! Holy *****! 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Franco_92

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, Franco_92 said:

It is absolutely insane that Bills fans think there is something uniquely horrifying about the way their team wins games. It makes every place you can go to read about the Bills on the internet completely insufferable. 

 

Tonight is a game that looked EXACTLY like the VAST MAJORITY of games (especially Thursday games) between a good team and a decent team. This was an ARCHETYPE of an NFL football game. And your team won! ***** enjoy it! Holy *****! 

And yet you're here.  

 

You think this should have been a close game?

[Simon]

17 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

And yet you're here.  

 

You think this should have been a close game?

 

I'll bet you my house he already regrets posting in this thread. 

I know I do.

[Franco_92]

18 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

And yet you're here.  

 

You think this should have been a close game?

I am as surprised that a 14 point late 4th quarter lead turned into a 6 point 4th quarter lead against a decent but not great team tonight, as I was when Denver had the ball down one score late in the 4th quarter against KC two weeks ago, yes. Or that Houston took them to OT last year. Because I watch NFL football. This was an NFL football game, that the Bills won. Like all NFL teams in all NFL games, they have a lot they can work on, but unlike some teams, they won the game, and unlike most teams in the entire history of the league, the Bills get an obscene number of blowout wins that fans have decided are the only acceptable way to experience an NFL game. 

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I'll bet you my house he already regrets posting in this thread. 

Hand it over, I'm having a blast! 

 

Unless that means you're gonna warn me. Please don't I will behave I"m sorry!!

Edited October 27, 2023 by Franco_92

[Solomon Grundy]

Back to the opening question. This coaching staff, IMO, is the most bullheaded, egotistical staff I've seen in a while. The dumbass fakes on 4th and short really fooled the Bucs 😳. Josh Norman being in uniform while their 1st round pick is inactive 😳. They try to run a play with time running down to end the 3rd qtr and your QB takes a sack losing field position 😳. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

Hand it over, I'm having a blast! 

 

OK, but I haven't vacuumed since Monday.

 

3 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

Unless that means you're gonna warn me. Please don't I will behave I"m sorry!!

 

Not at all.

Just suggesting there is more interesting conversation in other places that might be closer to your standards.

[What a Tuel]

24 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

It is absolutely insane that Bills fans think there is something uniquely horrifying about the way their team wins games. It makes every place you can go to read about the Bills on the internet completely insufferable. 

 

Tonight is a game that looked EXACTLY like the VAST MAJORITY of games (especially Thursday games) between a good team and a decent team. This was an ARCHETYPE of an NFL football game. And your team won! ***** enjoy it! Holy *****! 

 

All they do is see the highlights of opposing teams and win/loss, they don't see all the nitty gritty stuff like the Chiefs leading the Broncos by one possession all the way until 1:55 in the 4th quarter.

 

Or the Eagles going tit for tat with the Commanders and into OT.

 

Or the 49ers being up 27-17 in the 4th and letting the Rams hang around 27-20 until 1:49 left in the 4th.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, Franco_92 said:

I am as surprised that a 14 point late 4th quarter lead turned into a 6 point 4th quarter lead against a decent but not great team tonight, as I was when Denver had the ball down one score late in the 4th quarter against KC two weeks ago, yes. Or that Houston took them to OT last year. Because I watch NFL football. This was an NFL football game, that the Bills won. Like all NFL teams in all NFL games, they have a lot they can work on, but unlike some teams, they won the game, and unlike most teams in the entire history of the league, the Bills get an obscene number of blowout wins that fans have decided are the only acceptable way to experience an NFL game. 

Hand it over, I'm having a blast! 

Maybe it's me, but I'll give a Super Bowl Champion a little more leeway and benefit of the doubt than I do the Bills.  Of course, contextually, you're ignoring last week's Bills debacle 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

35 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Why must the same mistakes be made over and over and over again?  Is there any accountability for the players and coaches?

 

Examples:

1. Gabe Davis fumbles against NYG 2 weeks ago, because he failed to shift the ball from his inside hand to outside hand.  He did the same thing today, in the second quarter.  This is basic, fundamental football.

2. Taron Johnson:  how many weeks in a row has he committed a crucial penalty on 3rd or 4th down?

3.  How many times does McDermott need to see Taron Johnson get beat on the same play in the end zone?

4. Dorsey, and his affinity for the shotgun on 3rd and short plays, deep in enemy territory.  Second time in 3 weeks.  

5. The horrible job on the Hail Mary - again.  Got burned on Hail Murray, and almost inexplicably, the very next week (maybe the Chargers?)

6. Dumb penalties, poor tackling and lack of discipline.

 

Why did McDermott have the offense take its foot off of the gas after the score became 24-10?  With this defense - its lack of playmakers and anemic pass rush - the margin of error will be thin, so it's imperative that the offense score early AND often.  This game shouldn't have been close.  

Yeah this is a good point. 

 

You see how long Baker Mayfield holds the ball, and that allowed the pass rush to finally get there. 

 

They won't be so lucky with Burrow. 

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

OK, but I haven't vacuumed since Monday.

 

 

Not at all.

Just suggesting there is more interesting conversation in other places that might be closer to your standards.

This board is amazing, but like all other places, the game ends and a flood of new names you don't remember from all week tells you why your win sucks in a unique way that other good teams are capable of avoiding when they win their many close games. To a degree that makes you think we lost if you take in the overall volume. I think this string of success has made us a worse and dumber fanbase collectively. 

3 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

All they do is see the highlights of opposing teams and win/loss, they don't see all the nitty gritty stuff like the Chiefs leading the Broncos by one possession all the way until 1:55 in the 4th quarter.

 

Or the Eagles going tit for tat with the Commanders and into OT.

 

Or the 49ers being up 27-17 in the 4th and letting the Rams hang around 27-20 until 1:49 left in the 4th.

 

 

 

 

 

Right, it's every week. I'm not in here saying the Bills are the best team ever, they need to seal the deal soon here or I'll be ready to move on too. But people just don't know what they're looking at, yet will talk to you like you're a dumb toddler for not being as angry as they are, and when they articulate, they expose how little ball they actually know.

[Simon]

Just now, Franco_92 said:

This board is amazing, but like all other places, the game ends and a flood of new names you don't remember from all week tells you why your win sucks in a unique way that other good teams are capable of avoiding when they win their many close games. To a degree that makes you think we lost if you take in the overall volume. I think this string of success has made us a worse and dumber fanbase collectively. 

 

We sound more like entitled asshats at times, that's for sure.

Imagine how bad we'll be if we ever actually win a Super Bowl. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, Franco_92 said:

This board is amazing, but like all other places, the game ends and a flood of new names you don't remember from all week tells you why your win sucks in a unique way that other good teams are capable of avoiding when they win their many close games. To a degree that makes you think we lost if you take in the overall volume. I think this string of success has made us a worse and dumber fanbase collectively. 

Please, bestow us with your knowledge and wisdom.

 

Least you could do is address the specific examples in the original post in this thread.

[Freddie's Dead]

My favorite, 3rd and goal on the one inch line.  Butt shove, nah, we line up in shotgun and run Murray for a 2 yard loss.  We come away empty handed, and damn near lost the game because of it.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[What a Tuel]

Just now, Simon said:

 

We sound more like entitled asshats at times, that's for sure.

Imagine how bad we'll be if we ever actually win a Super Bowl. 

 

2 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

Right, it's every week. I'm not in here saying the Bills are the best team ever, they need to seal the deal soon here or I'll be ready to move on too. But people just don't know what they're looking at, yet will talk to you like you're a dumb toddler for not being as angry as they are, and when they articulate, they expose how little ball they actually know.

 

If we ever won a Super Bowl, I don't think this board would continue without a daily "we haven't won a 2nd super bowl tear it all down" thread every week 😂

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

My favorite, 2nd and goal on the one inch line.  Butt shove, nah, we line up in shotgun and run Murray for a 2 yard loss.  We come away empty handed, and damn near lost the game because of it.

It was 3rd goal, actually - but still an idiotic decision.  Same nonsense as in the NYG game.

[Franco_92]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

Please, bestow us with your knowledge and wisdom.

 

Least you could do is address the specific examples in the original post in this thread.

I could make an identical list from any good team's one-score win this year. Easily. Trivially. Twice as long. The context isn't that the Bills were perfect, it's that this is NFL football, and there are very few NFL football games that don't look like this. And the Bills are historically overrepresented in the games that are as flawless as we demand - massive blowout victories. No team in history, or very few, have done that with the frequency of the Bills of these last 4 years. 39% of their games in this struggle-session of a season have been exactly that! 

[Bferra13]

30 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

It is absolutely insane that Bills fans think there is something uniquely horrifying about the way their team wins games. It makes every place you can go to read about the Bills on the internet completely insufferable. 

 

Tonight is a game that looked EXACTLY like the VAST MAJORITY of games (especially Thursday games) between a good team and a decent team. This was an ARCHETYPE of an NFL football game. And your team won! ***** enjoy it! Holy *****! 

Ehhh not sure they are. They are in the bad pile for me. That's why this game was frustrating.

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

I could make an identical list from any good team's one-score win this year. Easily. Trivially. Twice as long. The context isn't that the Bills were perfect, it's that this is NFL football, and there are very few NFL football games that don't look like this. And the Bills are historically overrepresented in the games that are as flawless as we demand - massive blowout victories. No team in history, or very few, have done that with the frequency of the Bills of these last 4 years. 39% of their games in this struggle-session of a season have been exactly that! 

Yes, I assumed you wouldn't care to address the specific examples I recited or repeated mistakes and poor decisions

 

Also, all-knowing one, what is 39% of 8 games?

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bermuda Triangle

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Please, bestow us with your knowledge and wisdom.

 

Least you could do is address the specific examples in the original post in this thread.

 

I gave a bunch of examples of what are considered top teams struggling to close games against inferior opponents. No one is calling for Shanahan, Reid, or Sirianni's heads or want to blow up their org. I get it, we haven't won the big one yet (only Reid has out of that group and us) and its ok to critique but you have to admit the number of threads that want to tear it all down is straight absurd.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

It was 3rd goal, actually - but still an idiotic decision.  Same nonsense as in the NYG game.

 

Thank you, corrected.

[DrDawkinstein]

I dont agree with points 1, 2 and 3 at all. Especially Taron. He does enough to earn leeway on mistakes.

 

But completely agree with 4, 5, 6. This coaching is killing us.

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I gave a bunch of examples of what are considered top teams struggling to close games against inferior opponents. No one is calling for Shanahan, Reid, or Sirianni's heads or want to blow up their org. I get it, we haven't won the big one yet (only Reid has out of that group and us) and its ok to critique but you have to admit the number of threads that want to tear it all down is straight absurd.

I'm referring to repeated mistakes by players and staff.  I cited them above.  

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

It was 3rd goal, actually - but still an idiotic decision.  Same nonsense as in the NYG game.

 

3rd and inches AND 4th and inches. TWO cracks from the half yard line, and we line up shotgun both times. Dont get. Leave 7 points on the board. Disgusting.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

3rd and inches AND 4th and inches. TWO cracks from the half yard line, and we line up shotgun both times. Dont get. Leave 7 points on the board. Disgusting.

Any time you can give the DL extra time, from their own 1-yd line, to attempt to penetrate into the backfield, you gotta do it.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

3rd and inches AND 4th and inches. TWO cracks from the half yard line, and we line up shotgun both times. Dont get. Leave 7 points on the board. Disgusting.

 

I swear when we first lined up in gun on that 3rd down, I immediately felt the collective anguish of 1,000,000 Bills fans like Obi Wan feeling a great disturbance in the force.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, Simon said:

 

I swear when we first lined up in gun on that 3rd down, I immediately felt the collective anguish of 1,000,000 Bills fans like Obi Wan feeling a great disturbance in the force.

Did you agree with the call, in live time?  

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I'm referring to repeated mistakes by players and staff.  I cited them above.  

 

Score 27-20 49ers vs Rams 4th Quarter

 

You have Christian McCaffrey and you throw 3 straight passes (edit 2 passes and 1 run but not with McCaffrey) and punt. Pretty sure you guys would be knocking our staff for that.

 

1st & 10 at SF 32

(7:13 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Purdy pass short right to D.Samuel to SF 32 for 7 yards (J.Fuller; C.Rozeboom). FUMBLES (J.Fuller), ball out of bounds at SF 33.

2nd & 3 at SF 32

(6:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Samuel left end to SF 33 for 1 yard (M.Hoecht; J.Fuller).

3rd & 2 at SF 33

(5:42 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Purdy pass incomplete short middle to D.Samuel [B.Young].

4th & 2 at SF 33

(5:29 - 4th) M.Wishnowsky punts 67 yards to end zone, Center-T.Pepper, Touchback.

Edited October 27, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Did you agree with the call, in live time?  

 

*****, no.

I dropped a string of fbombs that scared the dog.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Score 27-20 49ers vs Rams

 

You have Christian McCaffrey and you throw 3 straight passes and punt. Pretty sure you guys would be knocking our staff for that.

 

1st & 10 at SF 32

(7:13 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Purdy pass short right to D.Samuel to SF 32 for 7 yards (J.Fuller; C.Rozeboom). FUMBLES (J.Fuller), ball out of bounds at SF 33.

2nd & 3 at SF 32

(6:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Samuel left end to SF 33 for 1 yard (M.Hoecht; J.Fuller).

3rd & 2 at SF 33

(5:42 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Purdy pass incomplete short middle to D.Samuel [B.Young].

4th & 2 at SF 33

(5:29 - 4th) M.Wishnowsky punts 67 yards to end zone, Center-T.Pepper, Touchback.

Sounds like a run to me....

 

Also, does Shanahan make the same mistakes over and over and over again?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

*****, no.

I dropped a string of fbombs that scared the dog.

same here

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, Simon said:

 

*****, no.

I dropped a string of fbombs that scared the dog.

should've learned their lesson after the NYG game, right?

 

Funny thing is, they did sneak under center the following series after the 4th down incompletion to DK.

[Ralonzo]

20 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Back to the opening question. This coaching staff, IMO, is the most bullheaded, egotistical staff I've seen in a while. The dumbass fakes on 4th and short really fooled the Bucs 😳. Josh Norman being in uniform while their 1st round pick is inactive 😳. They try to run a play with time running down to end the 3rd qtr and your QB takes a sack losing field position 😳. 

How about snapping on 2? I don’t remember Allen ever doing that. If the first hut is a hard count, the snap is always on 3. Always.

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Yes, I assumed you wouldn't care to address the specific examples I recited or repeated mistakes and poor decisions

 

3 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

I could make an identical list from any good team's one-score win this year. Easily. Trivially. Twice as long. The context isn't that the Bills were perfect, it's that this is NFL football, and there are very few NFL football games that don't look like this. And the Bills are historically overrepresented in the games that are as flawless as we demand - massive blowout victories. No team in history, or very few, have done that with the frequency of the Bills of these last 4 years. 39% of their games in this struggle-session of a season have been exactly that! 

I am not pretending that the Bills win was perfect, it was far from it. Read the bold. But if you want me to read your post, I'll comment on your examples.

 

1. Gabe Davis fumbles against NYG 2 weeks ago, because he failed to shift the ball from his inside hand to outside hand.  He did the same thing today, in the second quarter.  This is basic, fundamental football.
I honestly don't remember Gabe fumbling in this one, but I was helping my wife with a project for part of it. Gabe is a flawed player I hope we move on from. If this happened it is unfortunate. It is not unique to the Bills. 

2. Taron Johnson:  how many weeks in a row has he committed a crucial penalty on 3rd or 4th down?

Taron Johnson has had a rough 2 weeks. He is a great slot corner. I think his job is a lot harder with shaky corner and OLB play around him. The dude basically plays two positions at once. But yes, penalties can't happen. This is again far from unique to the Bills. 

3.  How many times does McDermott need to see Taron Johnson get beat on the same play in the end zone?

-and goal plays are successful in the NFL. We were beat on this one but historically have been very good on average in these situations. Taron's coverage on this touchdown was fine, and Baker put that ball in the only place it could be completed. It sucks, but this is not something unique to the Bills. 

4. Dorsey, and his affinity for the shotgun on 3rd and short plays, deep in enemy territory.  Second time in 3 weeks.  

Again, shotgun formations work better in goal to go situations at the 1, data has proven this, google "the athletic shotgun goal line plays" for an article written last year that has the data. Allen is a shotgun quarterback. He prefers it, and will always take most of his snaps from the shotgun. Dorsey needs to, and does, keep him honest and get him under center sometimes. He threw a pick from under center in both of the last two weeks. I am materially unconcerned with this distinction , it is one of a million things bills mafia latches onto and pretends is a magic "fix everything" button. 

5. The horrible job on the Hail Mary - again.  Got burned on Hail Murray, and almost inexplicably, the very next week (maybe the Chargers?)

The hail mary coverage was bad, but whatever it did, not one Tampa player was within 5 yards of, or even looking at, the football. 

6. Dumb penalties, poor tackling and lack of discipline.

The Bills have been a historically poor tackling team under Sean, and of course I"d like that to get better, I'll give that to you. Part of this is that they prioritize slight, athletic players to shut down the passing attack, which is how teams win today. No team has allowed fewer passing yards or a lower QBR since 2017 than the Buffalo Bills. No team. No team has a better point differential than the Bills in the last 3.5 years. Only one team has more wins. This is a solid football operation, much better than the vast majority, and discussion of the things they need to do better is always necessary and is in fact the most interesting part of talking ball, but fans who pretend that the bills are the worst winners in the history of the world need to be stamped out, they are the worst.

[Simon]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

same here

 

Yeah, I actually said "Sorry, doggo". 

[RoyBatty is alive]

15 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

This board is amazing, but like all other places, the game ends and a flood of new names you don't remember from all week tells you why your win sucks in a unique way that other good teams are capable of avoiding when they win their many close games. To a degree that makes you think we lost if you take in the overall volume. I think this string of success has made us a worse and dumber fanbase collectively. 

Right, it's every week. I'm not in here saying the Bills are the best team ever, they need to seal the deal soon here or I'll be ready to move on too. But people just don't know what they're looking at, yet will talk to you like you're a dumb toddler for not being as angry as they are, and when they articulate, they expose how little ball they actually know.

you will be ready to move in if they don’t seal the deal soon, wow what tough statement.

 

hey move on now, don’t let the door hit you in the asd!

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

you will be ready to move in if they don’t seal the deal soon, wow what tough statement.

 

hey move on now, don’t let the door hit you in the asd!

oh man, the apologists are now attacking one another!

[Franco_92]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

you will be ready to move in if they don’t seal the deal soon, wow what tough statement.

 

hey move on now, don’t let the door hit you in the asd!

I"m talking about "From Sean", which is what every thread on this board has or will devolve into for the rest of time apparently. I'm not trying to be tough, I'm trying to emphasize that I'm not ass-kissing, just trying to ground people in some semblance of a reality of what NFL games are actually like between two teams trying to win

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Funny thing is, they did sneak under center the following series after the 4th down incompletion to DK.

 

I'm feeling pretty confident that Dorsey got a massive earful after that 3rd down call at the goalline.

It might have even been bad enough that we won't see it again.