Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28. The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". Edited October 23, 2023 by Chaos 6 1 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Chaos said: Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". The Bills brass knows they honestly can’t win a single game without him and are probably terrified of him getting hurt. So they are asking him to be Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco. That’s not Josh teams have figured out Josh just isn’t going to take off anymore. How much different would this offense look with just one guy who can make contested catches? Edited October 23, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 41 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: How much different would this offense look with just one guy who can make contested catches? I don't know. If the defense is going to play at a level that allows Mac Jones to put up a 127 passer rating, I am not sure a few contested catches more or less is going to make a huge difference. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 The Josh who stays in the pocket area is not the best version of Josh. He was juking around to buy time yesterday since the line caved in, but ultimately when he doesn't run, drives tend to stall out eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 It was a team loss, and Josh had a part in it. Start with the D. Albeit missing 4 Pro bowl guys with Oliver out, you simply cannot have Mac Jones look like an All Star. And the last drive was ridiculous. Where is the pride for God sakes? You can’t get a stop there? Now as to offense, Dorsey is not adjusting at all. Defenses know what is going on, and he’s not done much the last three games to challenge that. When you supposedly spend a lot of time during the week scripting plays, figuring out your best calls, and crap the bed like yesterday it is clear you need to wake the hell up. Which brings us to Josh. Where is his head right now? He has way too much talent to play the way he did the first half, then just go to the bench and stare into space. If he does not like the calls, then demand changes or audible. Go back to runs but slide and avoid contact. Do something. But as QB you have to lead, and I don’t see him doing that right now. Bad times at 1BD right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 Just now, oldmanfan said: Which brings us to Josh. Where is his head right now? He has way too much talent to play the way he did the first half, then just go to the bench and stare into space. If he does not like the calls, then demand changes or audible. Go back to runs but slide and avoid contact. Do something. But as QB you have to lead, and I don’t see him doing that right now. I think Josh is following coaching orders on the sideline. There is an irrational fear of Josh playing with emotions. He is most likely doing what he is told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 This game is not his floor. If you wanna go by passer rating then he’s already had 3 below average games this year. He’s been an average NFL QB (and probably the most inconsistent) for an entire calendar year now. 91.5 passer rating and 26 turnovers since the bye week last year. Nobody is blaming him solely for our woes, but he has not consistently played like a $250M QB in a while. He needs to be better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Good post. I agree. This game was reminiscent of 13 seconds rather that Josh stinking up the game. That said, if Josh demoralized them in the 1st half, rather than keeping them in the game, we may have won. Instead, we opted to play catch-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I think a big part of all the offensive talk is two things: 1. The defense is banged up and we have Josh Allen with a healthy offense. There’s a reasonable expectation to carry the load while missing Oliver, Jones, Tre, Milano. Especially vs. a bad team. 2. The offense left a lot of plays on the field. Missed receivers, dropped balls, Offside, illegal formation. The offense was capable of a lot more yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, gobills404 said: This game is not his floor. If you wanna go by passer rating then he’s already had 3 below average games this year. He’s been an average NFL QB (and probably the most inconsistent) for an entire calendar year now. 91.5 passer rating and 26 turnovers since the bye week last year. Nobody is blaming him solely for our woes, but he has not consistently played like a $250M QB in a while. He needs to be better. Just not true. Coming into the game Allen is too 5 in every improvement passing stat this season 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Chaos said: Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28. The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". Honestly, great post. That said.. Allen takes up a massive portion of the cap, which restricts our ability in other places. This will truly be the case moving forward. However, to your point, yesterdays loss was a complete organizational failure. In a big game, coming off back to back weeks where everyone in the building acknowledged things need to change … it was more of the same, and McDermott’s Defense decided to join the party. And spare me the injuries. Yes, we are very banged up on defense. The Patriots are one of the worst offenses in football and have injuries to their OL and skill positions as well. About to be benched Mac Jones played his best game of the year against us and led a game winning drive. This entire team is a let down right now, and we’re hoping our cover of Madden QB can save us… but he’s also part of the problem. Not to the same extent, but by elite QB standards… They have to elevate teams. Allen currently is not. He’s missing a lot of big throws and not seeing the field very well. He’s caught up in the storm of organizational failure when we need him to rise above it. Fair or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, Mango said: I think a big part of all the offensive talk is two things: 1. The defense is banged up and we have Josh Allen with a healthy offense. There’s a reasonable expectation to carry the load while missing Oliver, Jones, Tre, Milano. Especially vs. a bad team. 2. The offense left a lot of plays on the field. Missed receivers, dropped balls, Offside, illegal formation. The offense was capable of a lot more yesterday. Regarding item 1. That is a polite way of saying we don’t have the talent to win. If our defense is not capable of holding the NFLs worst offense to less than 29 points in 27 minutes of possession time, we can’t beat good teams. The defense played badly yesterday. If they can’t play better, then the Bills likely miss the playoffs. If they can play better, then the need to own yesterday’s performance, which lost a very winnable game. Regarding item 2, this is all true. In a different thread someone made the observation that Kincaid needs to be TE1 and we need to move back to 11 personnel as the primary package. This solves the single biggest dropped pass problem. If the coaches don’t make this change for th next game, we will know that winning competes with other “process” priorities, or the coaching staff is not competent to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanSD Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 40 minutes ago, Mango said: I think a big part of all the offensive talk is two things: 1. The defense is banged up and we have Josh Allen with a healthy offense. There’s a reasonable expectation to carry the load while missing Oliver, Jones, Tre, Milano. Especially vs. a bad team. 2. The offense left a lot of plays on the field. Missed receivers, dropped balls, Offside, illegal formation. The offense was capable of a lot more yesterday. Sure, but the offense did score 25 points. That should be plenty to secure a comfortable win against a team like NE. If you're saying that the offense needs to score 30+ every week, then we might as well just concede that the season is over. That isn't a realistic expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Chaos said: Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28. The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". Now what really matters Josh Allen’s offense of production 1st half last 3 games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Chaos said: Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28. The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". the Bills offense had 10 points with 5 min left in the 4th Q. Enough with this. 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Now what really matters Josh Allen’s offense of production 1st half last 3 games Kenny boi and his elite production statistically! Look at the advanced advanced EPA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 52 minutes ago, gobills404 said: This game is not his floor. If you wanna go by passer rating then he’s already had 3 below average games this year. He’s been an average NFL QB (and probably the most inconsistent) for an entire calendar year now. 91.5 passer rating and 26 turnovers since the bye week last year. Nobody is blaming him solely for our woes, but he has not consistently played like a $250M QB in a while. He needs to be better. He’s the tenth highest paid qb in the league so therefore he is just playing like the tenth best and soon to be 12th when Prescott and Lawrence get their new deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Yeah I had redzone on while watching the Bills game and caught the rest of football that day. Joshs game looked about the average top 10 qb performance. He didnt look great by no means...but compared to the rest of the league....Lamar and Mahomes were the only ones that looked clearly better than Allen yesterday. Nice to have a QB that plays at such a high standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Chaos said: Regarding item 1. That is a polite way of saying we don’t have the talent to win. If our defense is not capable of holding the NFLs worst offense to less than 29 points in 27 minutes of possession time, we can’t beat good teams. The defense played badly yesterday. If they can’t play better, then the Bills likely miss the playoffs. If they can play better, then the need to own yesterday’s performance, which lost a very winnable game. Regarding item 2, this is all true. In a different thread someone made the observation that Kincaid needs to be TE1 and we need to move back to 11 personnel as the primary package. This solves the single biggest dropped pass problem. If the coaches don’t make this change for th next game, we will know that winning competes with other “process” priorities, or the coaching staff is not competent to adjust. I think there’s some nuance to the defense; for me it’s not as simple as pass/fail. We’re missing our three best players in the front 7. So I can forgive some things. But I was also really unimpressed by the secondary. I’m disliked the defensive game plan. We brought a lot of pressure that never got close to getting home, and a super soft zone that was getting picked apart. I would have preferred to either go press man, and at least give the blitz a shot at getting home. Or we stopped bringing pressure and clogged the passing lanes. I may be in the minority here, but I thought the offensive game plan was ok and yesterday was an execution issue. Granted I watched this game at a friends house, which I dislike for this exact reason I’ll have to rewatch when the A-22. But that’s my knee jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: the Bills offense had 10 points with 5 min left in the 4th Q. Enough with this. Kenny boi and his elite production statistically! Look at the advanced advanced EPA! 25 points and a lead with two minutes to go is what mattered yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Chaos said: Dak Prescott has a season long passer rating of 91 - ranked 14th - Dallas is 4-2 Baker Mayfield has a rating of 89 - ranked 15th. - Tampa is 3-3. Yesterday Allen had a passer rating of 90. If you compare Josh to peak Josh it was not good. If you compare Josh to other NFL QBs, it was slightly above average. If you are a fan of ESPN's QBR (I am not), Allen had a 68.9 rating yesterday which as a season average would place him fifth overall. Despite Allen's slightly above NFL average results, the Bills lost to a 1-5 team. This loss is an indictment of the whole team. Josh is not paid to be average. But during the course of 17 games, if his floor is average, that is pretty damn good. If the expectation is that everytime Josh has an NFL average game we should be expected to lose, then we are barely a playoff contender let alone a championship contender. Look at Mac Jones passer rating. Look at Buffalo rushing yards /carry. Look at the Patriots rushing yards per carry. Then explain how the defense's effort for the full 60 minutes, is not the primary cause of the loss. It is worth nothing also that the Bills possessed the ball for 32 minutes to the Patriots 28. The defense was highly protected. And given a lead with less than two minutes to go. No intelligent person could conclude "the loss is Allen's fault". Bills were giving Jones far too many easy completions with nobody around the receiver, and they threw a lot of short stuff as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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