Justice Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Andy1 said: Just presenting this for historical context. There is a reason why there are walls over there today. Please tell me. I went there in 86 and seen for myself why the intifada started. But I’m sure you know more than me…. F’n bot On 2/28/2024 at 2:59 PM, sherpa said: When do they hold Hamas accountable for starting this? It is always the same. Start a war, get your ass kicked, appeal to the world for sympathy. I hold them accountable. And so do many others. I also understand why they did it even though it was stupid AF. When will it be enough though? The Bill has been paid. How many have to die before you change your tune? You… not the govt… not Israel. You. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 8 minutes ago, Justice said: Please tell me. I went there in 86 and seen for myself why the intifada started. But I’m sure you know more than me…. F’n bot I hold them accountable. And so do many others. I also understand why they did it even though it was stupid AF. When will it be enough though? The Bill has been paid. How many have to die before you change your tune? You… not the govt… not Israel. You. I do agree with your last point. Quite some time ago this clearly shifted from "elimination of Hamas weapons/tunnels" to full-on vengeance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, Justice said: When will it be enough though? The Bill has been paid. How many have to die before you change your tune? You… not the govt… not Israel. You. Easy question. It will be enough when they are gone. The "bill" will come due again and again until they are gone. This ends today if Hamas releases all the hostages and their leaders get on the next transportation to Iran, or wherever they can spend their acquired wealth, which is apparently significant, from years of abuse. They can then spend their lives looking over their shoulders, because Israel is know for settling scores. (See the Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team and what happened those those involved). It is not enough to allow them to retool and do what they did again. Netanyahoo will be gone and some new dynamic will emerge, but to leave Hamas in charge is not wise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, sherpa said: Easy question. It will be enough when they are gone. The "bill" will come due again and again until they are gone. This ends today if Hamas releases all the hostages and their leaders get on the next transportation to Iran, or wherever they can spend their acquired wealth, which is apparently significant, from years of abuse. They can then spend their lives looking over their shoulders, because Israel is know for settling scores. (See the Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team and what happened those those involved). It is not enough to allow them to retool and do what they did again. Netanyahoo will be gone and some new dynamic will emerge, but to leave Hamas in charge is not wise. This is also true. Part of being a serious person is the ability to hold that both sides here speak important truths. An old Jesuit teacher put it this way: think about whether you should be saying "and" instead of "but." The instinct is to say something like, "Israel is exacting extreme death and destruction on Gaza, but that is only because Hamas has not unilaterally surrendered." To the Jesuit, the proper formulation was more like this: "Hamas needs to surrender for the good of the people it supposedly represents, and Israel's campaign of total war on Gaza is morally repugnant." 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 Oh yes, those cancer medications are for sure duel use items! Dates? Can't they be made into bombs? https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/01/middleeast/gaza-aid-israel-restrictions-investigation-intl-cmd/index.html Al-Zarqa, Jordan — Humanitarian workers and government officials working to deliver urgently needed aid for Gaza say a clear pattern has emerged of Israeli obstruction, as disease and near-famine grip parts of the besieged enclave. The Israeli agency that controls access to Gaza for the multi-billion-dollar aid effort has imposed arbitrary and contradictory criteria, according to more than two dozen humanitarian and government officials interviewed by CNN. CNN has also reviewed documents compiled by major participants in the humanitarian operation that list the items most frequently rejected by the Israelis. These include anesthetics and anesthesia machines, oxygen cylinders, ventilators and water filtration systems. Other items that have ended up in bureaucratic limbo include dates, sleeping bags, medicines to treat cancer, water purification tablets and maternity kits. In a January 13 press conference, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu boasted about permitting “minimal humanitarian aid” to enter Gaza. “We provide minimal humanitarian aid,” Netanyahu said. “If we want to achieve our war goals, we give the minimal aid.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 25 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I do agree with your last point. Quite some time ago this clearly shifted from "elimination of Hamas weapons/tunnels" to full-on vengeance. There is a whole lot of history that might suggest your opinion is not correct. If this recent conflict was the start, I would agree with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 53 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: To the Jesuit, the proper formulation was more like this: "Hamas needs to surrender for the good of the people it supposedly represents, and Israel's campaign of total war on Gaza is morally repugnant." There is no one here who can judge Israel's response. not me or anyone else. I always think it's funny when Americans voice opinion on situations they think they are informed of, but actually know nowhere near enough to justify opinion. Thirty years of international travel taught me that, so I simply don't judge based on exposure to what the US media reports. What happened on Oct 7 was sub-human. The Israelis have had enough, and Hamas needs to be eliminated, or this happens again and again. The Israelis are attempting to eliminate Hamas, not do some kind of proportioned response, which is idiotic, and given Hamas' and other similar strategies employed in that region, Hamas is quite happy to sacrifice civilians to protect themselves and garner international sympathy after their deeds are responded to. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 16 minutes ago, sherpa said: There is no one here who can judge Israel's response. not me or anyone else. Why not? How come they get a blank check to commit genocide? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why not? How come they get a blank check to commit genocide? One of the interesting things about your posts is that they almost always contain a false premise, or accusation. If anyone is interested enough to respond, they have to respond to that nonsense. It's quite similar to the "have you stopped beating your wife" query. This one is typical. They don't get a blank check to commit genocide. Nobody here, me included, has any idea what is going into their planning and execution. They are determined to get rid of Hamas, and whatever Netanyahu eventually completes, it will be his last action. A huge proportion of the Israeli population that serves is involved in this. Way more than any ignorant American can surmise. But....To the point, getting rid of Hamas is going to be incredibly ugly, because that's the way they, (Hamas), have structured it, as always. They structured the chessboard. Quit complaining when the other side plays it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 7 minutes ago, sherpa said: One of the interesting things about your posts is that they almost always contain a false premise, or accusation. If anyone is interested enough to respond, they have to respond to that nonsense. It's quite similar to the "have you stopped beating your wife" query. This one is typical. They don't get a blank check to commit genocide. Nobody here, me included, has any idea what is going into their planning and execution. They are determined to get rid of Hamas, and whatever Netanyahu eventually completes, it will be his last action. A huge proportion of the Israeli population that serves is involved in this. Way more than any ignorant American can surmise. But....To the point, getting rid of Hamas is going to be incredibly ugly, because that's the way they, (Hamas), have structured it, as always. They structured the chessboard. Quit complaining when the other side plays it. It's very much turning into a genocide It just is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 9 minutes ago, sherpa said: One of the interesting things about your posts is that they almost always contain a false premise, or accusation. If anyone is interested enough to respond, they have to respond to that nonsense. It's quite similar to the "have you stopped beating your wife" query. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 24 minutes ago, Tiberius said: It's very much turning into a genocide It just is Sure. You would know. The Holocaust was genocide. Ridding an aggressive enemy, determined to exterminate you, capable of inhuman actions against women and children, including the unborn, and all of your people is not genocide. It is survival, and I'm all for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 hours ago, sherpa said: Easy question. It will be enough when they are gone. The "bill" will come due again and again until they are gone. This ends today if Hamas releases all the hostages and their leaders get on the next transportation to Iran, or wherever they can spend their acquired wealth, which is apparently significant, from years of abuse. They can then spend their lives looking over their shoulders, because Israel is know for settling scores. (See the Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team and what happened those those involved). It is not enough to allow them to retool and do what they did again. Netanyahoo will be gone and some new dynamic will emerge, but to leave Hamas in charge is not wise. You live in a false reality. They made that place uninhabitable. Who are you kidding? Nobody, not Hamas, not the civilians can live there after this is all done. Netanyahu said returning of the hostages won’t end this. Stop playing yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, sherpa said: There is no one here who can judge Israel's response. not me or anyone else. I always think it's funny when Americans voice opinion on situations they think they are informed of, but actually know nowhere near enough to justify opinion. Thirty years of international travel taught me that, so I simply don't judge based on exposure to what the US media reports. What happened on Oct 7 was sub-human. The Israelis have had enough, and Hamas needs to be eliminated, or this happens again and again. The Israelis are attempting to eliminate Hamas, not do some kind of proportioned response, which is idiotic, and given Hamas' and other similar strategies employed in that region, Hamas is quite happy to sacrifice civilians to protect themselves and garner international sympathy after their deeds are responded to. Lots of lies are being exposed about that date. Lots. Too bad you have blinders on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, Justice said: Lots of lies are being exposed about that date. Lots. Too bad you have blinders on. Ya. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 3 hours ago, sherpa said: Sure. You would know. The Holocaust was genocide. Ridding an aggressive enemy, determined to exterminate you, capable of inhuman actions against women and children, including the unborn, and all of your people is not genocide. It is survival, and I'm all for it. So genocides just happen in one way? We can agree that this is group punishment, right? People that had nothing to do at all with attacking Israel are being starved, bombed, and shot, right? 3 hours ago, sherpa said: Ya. Too bad. Sub human? Like the people that funneled money to Hamas? And did not have a watch on a group sworn to destroy Israel? Netanhoo let them attack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 15 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So genocides just happen in one way? We can agree that this is group punishment, right? People that had nothing to do at all with attacking Israel are being starved, bombed, and shot, right? Sub human? Like the people that funneled money to Hamas? And did not have a watch on a group sworn to destroy Israel? Netanhoo let them attack. The claim that Netanyahu allowed them to attack is stupid and ignorant. Stop with that nonsense, Nope. Nope and nope. Genocide is your assertion. Not mine, and not factual or supported. Hamas has set things up to ensure that civilians get killed. That's how they play their game. That is a universal strategy among Islamic military planning. Start a war, which they did. Get you ass kicked, which they are doing. Appeal to the international community for mercy, claiming war crimes/genocide/whatever, from the entity that you attacked. Rinse repeat, over and over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 24 minutes ago, sherpa said: Hamas has set things up to ensure that civilians get killed. That's how they play their game. Yes. But again: that doesn't mean that ostensibly civilized nations need to play their game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Yes. But again: that doesn't mean that ostensibly civilized nations need to play their game. And do what? Continue to put up with this? Their game doesn't need to be played with. It needs to be eliminated, or this never ends. Nobody away from Israel knows what their situation is. Ergo, in my view, nobody in the US can judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 15 hours ago, sherpa said: The claim that Netanyahu allowed them to attack is stupid and ignorant. Stop with that nonsense, Nope. Nope and nope. Genocide is your assertion. Not mine, and not factual or supported. Hamas has set things up to ensure that civilians get killed. That's how they play their game. That is a universal strategy among Islamic military planning. Start a war, which they did. Get you ass kicked, which they are doing. Appeal to the international community for mercy, claiming war crimes/genocide/whatever, from the entity that you attacked. Rinse repeat, over and over. You’re a perfect example of being brainwashed. Who said Hamas is getting their ass kicked! Who?? How do you even know that? I’ll tell you how. It’s because you’re a sheep. You believe everything they tell you. You have no clue if Hamas is getting touched. Unless you equate civilians with Hamas. it is a genocide. They called Oct 7th a genocide and you ate that ***** right up probably. I never heard you debunk that claim. You’re incapable of having critical thought. There’s no way Oct 7th happened the way they said it did. Why else would they make it a 5 year prison sentence if you question it? Innocent people don’t behave that way. Edited March 2 by Justice 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The ***** IDF slaughtered 104 starving people and not a peep from you guys. SMH. You lie to yourselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 44 minutes ago, Justice said: You’re a perfect example of being brainwashed. Who said Hamas is getting their ass kicked! Who?? How do you even know that? I’ll tell you how. It’s because you’re a sheep. You believe everything they tell you. You have no clue if Hamas is getting touched. Unless you equate civilians with Hamas. it is a genocide. They called Oct 7th a genocide and you ate that ***** right up probably. I never heard you debunk that claim. You’re incapable of having critical thought. There’s no way Oct 7th happened the way they said it did. Why else would they make it a 5 year prison sentence if you question it? Innocent people don’t behave that way. Sure. I'll continue to watch what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Religious zealotry and provocation is not limited to one side: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-unlikely-role-red-cows-play-in-war-between-israel-and-hamas/ Or this, from a source that seems to think this is a wonderful thing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Yes. But again: that doesn't mean that ostensibly civilized nations need to play their game. like murdering babies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, Pokebball said: like murdering babies? Right. Not sure of your point here. My point is simple: just because they murdered Israeli babies doesn't mean it's ok to kill Gazan babies through reckless targeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 36 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Right. Not sure of your point here. My point is simple: just because they murdered Israeli babies doesn't mean it's ok to kill Gazan babies through reckless targeting. Civilized US murdering babies was my point 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, B-Man said: Gotta try and save Michigan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Religious zealotry and provocation is not limited to one side: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-unlikely-role-red-cows-play-in-war-between-israel-and-hamas/ Or this, from a source that seems to think this is a wonderful thing: This is terrifying. Every accusation is a confession with these people. They claim Hamas wants a holy war but here they are doing everything in their power to make sure that happens. They’re ready. They have the US under their feet, they have the weapons, the arsenal, hand picked governments all around the globe. They’ve been preparing for this for a long time. What’s the hurry for end times with these *****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 YGBFKM, CBS CBS Saturday Morning and foreign correspondent Chris Livesay sought to explain what drove Hamas to commit its October 7 attack on Israel and settled on “Jewish activists kicking a hornets' nest,” despite admitting these activists have no real power or significant influence within the Israeli government or Judaism. Livesay would also throw certain Christians into the blame game as well. One woman Livesay interviewed claimed she wanted to get rid of the Dome of the Rock, which led Livesay to reassure viewers that “to be clear, hers is a dream not shared by the Israeli government or by the vast majority of Israelis and Jews.” However, “it's enough to incite numerous Islamist groups. Hamas has dubbed its October 7 assault on Israel the Al-Aqsa Mosque Wave as the Dome of the Rock as its emblem, but this sacred ground to billions of Muslims globally, not just Hamas terrorists, stresses Iman Mustafa Abu Sway of Al-Aqsa Mosque.” Did Israel wear its skirt too short, too? This is stupidity on stilts. Hamas has attacked Israel almost continuously for the last 17 years, especially in rocket attacks on civilian areas, and has repeatedly crossed the Gaza border to conduct offensive operations on the ground. They planned the October 7 massacres for at least two years, in pursuit of their openly declared ambition to annihilate all of Israel and its Jews. https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/alex-christy/2024/03/02/cbs-asks-if-jewish-activists-kicking-hornets-nest-provoked-hamas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2024 at 11:18 AM, The Frankish Reich said: Religious zealotry and provocation is not limited to one side: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-unlikely-role-red-cows-play-in-war-between-israel-and-hamas/ Or this, from a source that seems to think this is a wonderful thing: Wow 🥺 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: I’m sure that you agree that if this doesn’t happen it’s further proof of Biden’s ineffectual foreign policy. Seems like it’s one failure after another. Sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Madam Vice President, there was a ceasefire. Hamas broke it, slaughtering women and unborn babies. Get rid of Hamas, then a ceasefire, but she it too stupid to understand that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 22 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: I’m sure that you agree that if this doesn’t happen it’s further proof of Biden’s ineffectual foreign policy. Seems like it’s one failure after another. Sad. Biden doesn't control the world, sh it happens 15 minutes ago, sherpa said: Madam Vice President, there was a ceasefire. Hamas broke it, slaughtering women and unborn babies. Get rid of Hamas, then a ceasefire, but she it too stupid to understand that. How do you get rid of "hamas" ? Kill all the young men in Gaza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: How do you get rid of "hamas" ? Kill all the young men in Gaza? I'll leave that to the Israelis. They have a history of getting rid of individuals. Far better a history than us and any other country. The long term mistake would be to allow them some kind of survival, so the Israeli citizenry can be slaughtered again. It is time to end Hamas. Soon enough, it will be time to end Hezbollah. Or, alternatively, end the Iranian Islamic regime, which would solve it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, sherpa said: I'll leave that to the Israelis. They have a history of getting rid of individuals. Far better a history than us and any other country. The long term mistake would be to allow them some kind of survival, so the Israeli citizenry can be slaughtered again. It is time to end Hamas. Soon enough, it will be time to end Hezbollah. Or, alternatively, end the Iranian Islamic regime, which would solve it all. It's like killing an idea. Not something you can just do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: It's like killing an idea. Not something you can just do I think you are remarkably naive about this issue. Iran is paying individuals a ton of money to do this wet work for them. There isn't some religious devotion to a cause here. The Israelis are pretty good at getting at the people responsible, and I support them terminating them with prejudice. I have no sympathy for Iranian paid murderers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 28 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Biden doesn't control the world, sh it happens There’s been no shortage of sh*t on his watch. I’m glad you agree. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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