B-Man Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 The Silent Death Toll in Israel BY ASHLEY MCCULLY https://pjmedia.com/columns/ashleymccully/2023/10/21/the-silent-death-toll-in-israel-n1736881#google_vignette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Joe Biden Is Trying To Get Israel To Delay Its Invasion Of Gaza. That’s A Mistake By Michael Rubin The Biden administration reportedly seeks to delay Israel’s ground offensive in the Gaza Strip in order to provide more time to win the release of hostage through negotiation. This is exactly the wrong move to make, and President Biden and his Middle East team have no moral authority to make it .https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/10/joe-biden-is-trying-to-get-israel-to-delay-its-invasion-of-gaza-thats-a-mistake/ . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Controversial? Yes. But here's what I really think is going on: 1. Gaza has been problematic for Israel for a long time. They were happy to sort of wash their hands of it back in 2006. Egypt doesn't want anything to do with it either. The whole concept of the "refugee camps" in Gaza is absurd. Nowhere else in the world do we have this concept of multi-generational refugees. Palestinians were forcibly relocated to Gaza when the Arab states attacked Israel shortly after its formation. The children, and children's children, and children's children's children of these refugees continue to reside there with some vague notion that they will be resettled somewhere (they think Israel, where they came from) at some time in the future. Many have left by immigrating to other places (hence the Palestinians in the US), but no Arab country has invited them to resettle in large numbers for what is now 75 years. In other words, they were not going anywhere. 2. Until now, that is. Israel already has forcibly evacuated half of Gaza. And they are systematically bombing both the north and the south. This is ostensibly to root out Hamas targets, but the bombing is so widespread that I find it difficult to believe that they have good Intel that Hamas terrorists or command/control are located in every bombed location. 3. Therefore, I think Israel's true purpose is to force - finally, after 75 years - a relocation of people out of Gaza. Face facts: those who have left the north have nowhere to return to. Their homes and infrastructure are destroyed. And I have to assume that sooner or later the same will happen in the South. Israel is forcing a mass relocation of people out of Gaza. Again, ostensibly they are trying to root out/kill Hamas terrorists, but I think that involves neutralizing the threat from Gaza entirely by essentially depopulating it. Gaza has been an impediment to any two-state solution. Look at the two-state maps that have been proposed: there is no good way to connect up Gaza to the West Bank while preserving Israel's territorial integrity and security. Israel is sick and tired of having to deal with Gaza. This provides the opportunity to make it go away. 4. The endgame: I have no idea. I don't know if Israel has an idea. Having created a new displaced persons crisis, I posit that Israel is hoping that other countries (particularly Arab countries) will resettled Gazans. No doubt western countries will do so too as the humanitarian crisis becomes more and more obvious. I don't know what they think the official status of Gaza will be after this is all done. Israel probably has no interest in annexing it and taking the blowback from the US and world community. So perhaps occupying it again even though they don't want to. Maybe some Gazans will resettle in the West Bank. Israel (not Netanyahu, but most Israelis) can live with a Palestinian state in the West Bank once the Gaza "problem" is gone. I know I am being deliberately neutral about whether these things are warranted or even in violation of international law. I am just suggesting that there is more here than simply neutralizing Hamas in Gaza and allowing Gaza to continue to exist in something like its current status. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 https://x.com/dizalifornia/status/1715940058036138454?s=46 “Are you really that stupid?” 55 minutes ago, B-Man said: Joe Biden Is Trying To Get Israel To Delay Its Invasion Of Gaza. That’s A Mistake By Michael Rubin The Biden administration reportedly seeks to delay Israel’s ground offensive in the Gaza Strip in order to provide more time to win the release of hostage through negotiation. This is exactly the wrong move to make, and President Biden and his Middle East team have no moral authority to make it .https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/10/joe-biden-is-trying-to-get-israel-to-delay-its-invasion-of-gaza-thats-a-mistake/ . Well maybe he’s just trying to prevent this conflict from widening. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: 4. The endgame: I have no idea. I don't know if Israel has an idea. Having created a new displaced persons crisis, I posit that Israel is hoping that other countries (particularly Arab countries) will resettled Gazans. Here's a list of countries that have expelled Palestinians since the creation of Israel. Iraq Saudi Arabia Libya Jordan Lebanon Kuwait In perhaps the largest displacement, (from over 400,000 to less than 20,000), Kuwait did so in 1991 following the US' and coalition forces forced the Iraqis out following their invasion of Kuwait. They did so because Arafat's PLO endorsed the Iraqi invasion. Looking at that list, and the undeniable history, I hold very little hope that Arab nations will resettle them in their lands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Justice said: https://x.com/dizalifornia/status/1715940058036138454?s=46 “Are you really that stupid?” If that's directed at me, well, no, I'm not that stupid. I don't believe that Israel was somehow behind terrorists raids that slaughtered hundreds of its citizens and took a couple hundred hostage. What I'm suggesting is that the Hamas raids have convinced Netanyahu that there is no such thing as peaceful coexistence with Gaza as it was before October 6, and that he is engaging in a scorched earth policy that will essentially eliminate Gaza as it was before October 6. There is no need for a conspiracy theory to explain the events of this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: If that's directed at me, well, no, I'm not that stupid. I don't believe that Israel was somehow behind terrorists raids that slaughtered hundreds of its citizens and took a couple hundred hostage. What I'm suggesting is that the Hamas raids have convinced Netanyahu that there is no such thing as peaceful coexistence with Gaza as it was before October 6, and that he is engaging in a scorched earth policy that will essentially eliminate Gaza as it was before October 6. There is no need for a conspiracy theory to explain the events of this month. No man. It’s not directed towards you. It was a quote from the tweet. I should’ve specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Seeing reports Hamas is going to release 50 dual citizen hostages. Not much for details/confirmation yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 So ethnic cleansing is what Israel is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So ethnic cleansing is what Israel is doing Allow me to respond with the sort of idiocy that you have made your trademark: you love hamas and should move to Gaza. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: you love hamas and should move to Gaza. Lies. You are lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So ethnic cleansing is what Israel is doing I wouldn't say that. "Ethnic cleansing" is a term that came out of the Balkan conflict, stemming from the idea that Serbia was attempting to eliminate its Muslim/Kosovar population. In other words, a country with a multi-ethnic population, trying to rid itself of one ethno-religious group. Gaza is, as I understand it, basically mono-cultural, so the idea of ethnic cleansing wouldn't apply. That's not to say that I think that what Israel is doing is just fine and dandy. There are good arguments that its certainly not. There is also a good arguments that Gaza is a semi-autonomous region governed by Hamas, a group that sent its fighters into Israel to kill and abduct civilians. In other words, it is, in fact, a country that started a war with its neighbor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I wouldn't say that. "Ethnic cleansing" is a term that came out of the Balkan conflict, stemming from the idea that Serbia was attempting to eliminate its Muslim/Kosovar population. In other words, a country with a multi-ethnic population, trying to rid itself of one ethno-religious group. Gaza is, as I understand it, basically mono-cultural, so the idea of ethnic cleansing wouldn't apply. That's not to say that I think that what Israel is doing is just fine and dandy. There are good arguments that its certainly not. There is also a good arguments that Gaza is a semi-autonomous region governed by Hamas, a group that sent its fighters into Israel to kill and abduct civilians. In other words, it is, in fact, a country that started a war with its neighbor. If that did actually kick the Palestinians out of Gaza, I think that would be considered ethnic cleansing. But toMAto / TOmato, or something like that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: If that did actually kick the Palestinians out of Gaza, I think that would be considered ethnic cleansing. But toMAto / TOmato, or something like that I'd agree if Israel's intention is to occupy Gaza AND "resettle" it with Jews, I'd agree with you. But I can't imagine (or at least I don't want to even consider) that that's the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I'd agree if Israel's intention is to occupy Gaza AND "resettle" it with Jews, I'd agree with you. But I can't imagine (or at least I don't want to even consider) that that's the plan. Oh, if its a buffer zone or something...that would be crazy. Prime real estate by the sea Amusement park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 19 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: I wouldn't say that. "Ethnic cleansing" ...... It is particularly curious that he would suggest that the Israelis are engaged in "ethnic cleansing," since the Hamas Charter specifically calls for that regarding the Jews, who they also blame for WWI and WWII, as well as the Russian and French Revolutions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I've been trying to come up with a similar situation for the US. In other words "Gaza is to Israel as [blank] is the the USA." The closest I can come up with: some of us remember (vaguely) the radical American Indian movement of the 1970s. Imagine if a radical faction committed to ejecting all people of European (and I suppose Asian/African too) ancestry from the United States had taken over the Navajo nation, and that some US adversary (the USSR) had taken to sending them arms. And imagine that this radical group didn't just run the Navajo tribal government; it also had an armed faction that carried out attacks against civilians in Arizona/Utah/Colorado/New Mexico, and that one of these attacks involved killing hundreds of civilians and taking a couple hundred hostage in the territory of the Navajo Nation. Q. What actions would the United States be justified in taking in response? What action would not be justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, sherpa said: It is particularly curious that he would suggest that the Israelis are engaged in "ethnic cleansing," since the Hamas Charter specifically calls for that regarding the Jews, who they also blame for WWI and WWII, as well as the Russian and French Revolutions. Dems don't even know what/who they are supporting anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 19 minutes ago, sherpa said: It is particularly curious that he would suggest that the Israelis are engaged in "ethnic cleansing," since the Hamas Charter specifically calls for that regarding the Jews, who they also blame for WWI and WWII, as well as the Russian and French Revolutions. Not really, Hamas obviously wants ethnic cleansing, too. Does Israel really want to have the same goal as Hamas? 1 minute ago, Doc said: Dems don't even know what/who they are supporting anymore. Ya, what's next, they won't be able to choose a Speaker of the House...oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ya, what's next, they won't be able to choose a Speaker of the House...oh wait... I'm not talking Congress Critters, I'm talking you and your ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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