Impressions from game

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

You think the offense was flawless last year? Are you trying to imply the Bills offense can't improve? Surely you aren't...

 

How about limiting turnovers, possessing the ball more and thus limiting other offenses opportunities, being more balanced and even harder to stop, less reliance on Allen running the ball, improved RedZone offense, and scoring more than 10 points in the biggest home playoffs game in decades. 

To the bolded: That alone would be a significant benefit from a more balanced, or efficient run game.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You think the offense was flawless last year? Are you trying to imply the Bills offense can't improve? Surely you aren't...

 

How about limiting turnovers, possessing the ball more and thus limiting other offenses opportunities, being more balanced and even harder to stop, less reliance on Allen running the ball, improved RedZone offense, and scoring more than 10 points in the biggest home playoffs game in decades. 

I know the Bills had the fewest punts of any team in the NFL.  I know they were the number 1 offense outside of the redzone in the NFL last year.   They were mediorce in the redzone.  I don't see how a "more balanced attack" helps in the redzone, and there really is not room for improvement outside of the red zone.  Just kind of how math works. 

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

I know the Bills had the fewest punts of any team in the NFL.  I know they were the number 1 offense outside of the redzone in the NFL last year.   They were mediorce in the redzone.  I don't see how a "more balanced attack" helps in the redzone, and there really is not room for improvement outside of the red zone.  Just kind of how math works. 

You don’t? 

[Rocky Landing]

Just now, Shortchaz said:

You don’t? 

Beat me to it.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Shortchaz said:

You don’t? 

nope, i am willing to learn. 

[Shortchaz]

Just now, Chaos said:

nope, i am willing to learn. 

2nd & 5 at IND 8

(11:38 - 1st) J.Cook left end for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.T.Bass extra point is GOOD, Center-R.Ferguson, Holder-S.Martin.
 

Second play of offense in preseason game 1

[Rocky Landing]

2 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

2nd & 5 at IND 8

(11:38 - 1st) J.Cook left end for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.T.Bass extra point is GOOD, Center-R.Ferguson, Holder-S.Martin.
 

Second play of offense in preseason game 1

I'll bet we see Murray punch it in there a few times this year.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't want a balanced attack. They run the right amount. They need to run better not more.

 

I agree with the "better not more".  The Bills were actually running the league average # of attempts per game last season.

 

But part of "better" IMHO is less dependence on Allen as their best rusher, and more dependence on the backs. 

That may not actually be better in terms of improved Y/A or even as many Y/A, but if it's better in terms of Allen wearing down during the season, it's still an improvement.

 

Note that I'm not suggesting Allen not run, just that he not run as much.  I'd like to see him at the 2020 level of 6.4 attempts per game instead of last year almost 8 attempts per game.

[julian]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

This seems like a less public event, than one in front of 60000 people on national tv, but I don't know where you work, so I can't be sure. 

Lol yeah way less public, I understand happening on live TV in front of millions lends to prolonging of the curiosity.

 

 I was just stating the obvious, people are brought back with CPR everyday all over the world, that’s why it’s important to have the training.

[Thrivefourfive]

Cooks in a tradition RB role was cool. The defense is pretty deep. They have a lot of backups that could be starters elsewhere. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

I know the Bills had the fewest punts of any team in the NFL.  I know they were the number 1 offense outside of the redzone in the NFL last year.   They were mediorce in the redzone.  I don't see how a "more balanced attack" helps in the redzone, and there really is not room for improvement outside of the red zone.  Just kind of how math works. 

Your math if off. 

[Thrivefourfive]

It’s the game script. The play rhythms and rhymes. There needs to be a complete offensive drive play sheet, and then a connection of drive calls that fit together. 
 

I mean.. these OCs around the league.. they are not calling a play on 3rd and 5, in an isolated way. They’re calling that play with all the other game plays in mind. 
 

Just watch Carolina’s play calls with Bryce Young out there. Everything Reich designs and calls is for a reason. Young’s time in that game went about as well as it could possibly go. He got his feet wet, made the right decisions, and most importantly got hit. Now he has a clock in his head on those plays. I expect that he’ll push the ball more down the field next game, but again, won’t run. He won’t run in the pre season. 
 

I bring up Reich and Young because they are very smart, and know exactly what they’re doing. This is the sort of thing Dorsey and Allen better be doing. It’s all got to be part of the plan. Not… *****, we haven’t gone deep in a while, let’s try that!

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I agree with the "better not more".  The Bills were actually running the league average # of attempts per game last season.

 

But part of "better" IMHO is less dependence on Allen as their best rusher, and more dependence on the backs. 

That may not actually be better in terms of improved Y/A or even as many Y/A, but if it's better in terms of Allen wearing down during the season, it's still an improvement.

 

Note that I'm not suggesting Allen not run, just that he not run as much.  I'd like to see him at the 2020 level of 6.4 attempts per game instead of last year almost 8 attempts per game.

This is what it’s about. Sustained offensive success without depending on Allen to gain so many yards / first downs on the ground - or to absorb so many hits to get them. 

[Ralonzo]

Might as well drop the 2nd half here too. Lotta mo O-snaps here.

 

1st series Offense 74-65-62-70-72
1st & 10) Boettger whiffs, Allen gets sacked and Doyle gets hurt in the pileup.
2nd & 20) Incomplete, drop by Shavers. Good pass by Allen tho. Doyle actually singles the edge rusher.
3rd & 20) Hell of a completion to Ateman. Colts ran a left end stunt, it was swallowed by the Bills interior.
1st & 10) Swing to Mims for big gain. Anderson got beat but it was a quick throw.
1st & 10) Handoff Mims for 2. Good push from the IOL and Doyle pulls to pop the end.
2nd & 8) The Pick Six. Allen double-clutches because Van Demark and Boettger let 91 go to get out for the screen and he jumps. Doyle ends up 5 yards downfield because of that too. Gotta put that one on Allen, you can't double-clutch a WR screen.

 

2nd series Offense 75-65-62-70-74
1st & 10) Handoff for loss, Trips tight right in 12, some people think Van Demark whiffs on this but he blocks down on the tackle, the TEs just let the backer shoot the gap.
2nd & 11) Quick pass to KeeSean, you can see Van Demark's pass pro at RT is technically lacking. Gouraige handles his edge.
3rd & 2) Crosser to Ateman, Van Demark is again struggling with the power rush but does enough. Gouraige really handles his edge.
1st & 10) Looked almost like an RPO, Barkley's inc. Some of the linemen were firing downfield so hell if I know.
2nd & 10) A goofy looking screen with a double-clutch as Gouraige is blocking an upfield rusher.
3rd & 5) Isabella catch. The interior was getting worked a little, Boettger was losing his man but it came out quick.
1st & 10) Mims for a couple, which is the minimum he could have gotten. He had room to go.
2nd & 7) Hard count offside, Van Demark whiiiiiiffed setting for a power move as the end just shimmied around him and killed Barkley.
2nd & 2) Evans for the 1st going left behind the TE's. Line moved people that time.
1st & 10) Play action, quick to KeeSean. Darn close to a max protect there, no Colt got a sniff.
1st & 10) Evans loses. Boettger does get walked back but Sternberger misses his guy completely who makes the play.
2nd & 12) TD Shavers. Van Demark almost bit on the same move but just hooked the edge. Anderson just THROWS his guy down as I think he was trying a spin move or something.

 

1st series Defense
1st & 10) Handoff. Ankou penetrates upfield again. 63 Jarvis slides down the line to make the play.
2nd & 7) 96 Cline is unblocked and whiffs on Ehlinger who scrambles. Ankou in on the stop.
3rd & 4) Bills show blitz but rush 4 and don't get home.
1st & 10) WR screen. Dale got stacked and pushed back.
1st & 10) Short run, Broughton and Ray clogging their side and leaving the LB clean for the stop.
2nd & 8) Single blitzer, Cline and Dale both win and meet at the QB where Dale loses.
3rd & 15) Cline & Ray flips sides, Ray gets around the edge and hits the QB's arm to deflect the pass.

 

3rd series Offense 75-65-62-70-74
1st & 10) Mims short run. Formation penalty. Line had good push, again Mims coulda shoulda gained more looking at it a second time.
1st & 15) Barkley to KeeSean. He had time and a great pocket, Colts rushed 4 and never got close.
1st & 10) Mims over RG, as the Bills moved people. Anderson is a strong son of a gun.
2nd & something) Barkley sacked. Van Demark beat around the edge, he has had problems with the upfield power rush in his RT set all day. 
3rd & 14) 1st down sling to Steenbergen, who fumbles after getting hit by Cousin Itt. Gouraige barely recovers as he's initially beat to the inside.

 

2nd series Defense
1st & 10) Inside run Drake, dragged down by Ankou.
2nd & 5) QB option run gets past Ankou for the 1st.
1st & 10) WR screen, and split screen, so not much to glean there.
2nd & 4) Pitch left, linebackers are kept clean again.
3rd & 2) Option given to RB, Ankou and Spector stack the middle and Ray comes down the line for the stop.
4th & 1) Drake is stuffed for the TOD, Ankou is this game's honorary German as he rolls right over French.

 

4th series Offense 75-67-70-63-74
1st & 10) Evans off tackle left for very little. Went behind Broeker and Anderson and they didn't get much.
2nd & 9) Good pocket allows Barkley to lob a carrier pigeon to Patmon.
1st & 10) Evans turns a possible negative play into positive, big whiff by the inline TE on right. 
2nd & 4) Nice catch Patmon. Colts send 5 and it's eaten up.
1st & 10) Barley with ALL DAY despite a corner blitz and overthrows Shavers because he's being held.
1st & 10) Audible pitch right. Decent pull from Van Demark to try to give Mims the corner but once again he finds a defender instead.
2nd & 8) Hitch to Isabella, if it was a longer pattern one of the edges might have gotten home.
3rd & 3) TD Patmon. Once again the line identifies a blitz and picks it up perfectly (Gouraige again). Van Demark miiiight have gotten away with one again, the power-to-speed rush by their edges is definitely troubling him.

 

3rd series Defense
1st & 10) Quick throw, who can tell.
2nd & 1) Cline runs several loops around the QB before the throwaway. Coaches need to train him chasing chickens. Broughton gets double-teamed and eliminated.
3rd & 1) Slow developing run. Vickers fired through but they run at Jonathan and get it.
1st & 10) Quick out for a couple. Jonathan and Ray both doing the Von stand-up rush but getting nowhere.
2nd & 7) Quick dig for 6. Same story.
3rd & 1) Fake into the line and a short throw with long RAC. Ankou doesn't seem to notice people in blue trying to block him, he just wades right through them.
1st & 10) Run 999 and throw it the **** down the field and hope for a flag. DL was getting good push tho.
1st & 10) Cline german suplexes the runner into the end zone instead of stopping him.
2PC) Howard channeling Mike Stratton.

 

5th series Offense 75-67-70-63-74
1st & 10) Rollout toss to the TE. Most of the line just stood there, nothing to do, lol.
2nd & 8) Evans behind Broeker and Gouraige for a nice gain.
3rd & 3) Evans weaves throw a mess of blockers and blockees and then a big pig pile push for the 1st.
1st & 10) Play action to Shavers. Well-blocked by everyone, just a big mass of white stopping a big mass of blue.
1st & 10) Mims for 9 with a nice cut left behind the trip-TE bunch.
2nd & 1) Mims dances around the guys 48 and 83 pretended to block for the 1st down to ice it.
1st & 10) Victory formation, etc.
 

[BigAl2526]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:50 PM, Kmart128 said:

 

The 3rd string OLine was pretty bad. Allen had no time that first series. He didnt play horribly. Barkley obviously looked awesome vs 3rd stringers and seemed to have timing perfect.

 

Allen still has work to do but i would say solid. Colts had their starters out ther longer than us so he played a lot with our backups and their starters. And he had to deal with some pretty bad crucial drops from Shakir and Morris that would have extended drives.

I'm not as ready to dismiss Kyle Allen as some are, but it was not a good outing for him.  He's unsure of himself and slow making reads post snap.  If the competition ended Saturday at 4 PM, Matt Barkley is the backup QB.  The competition is not necessarily over yet.  Matt Barkley is far more experienced in this offense.  Kyle Allen may improve enough over the next couple of preseason games to get McDermott's attention.  Kyle Allen's skill set is more similar Josh Allen's than is Matt Barkley's.  If Kyle can get the mental part of the game down, it means far less adjustment for the offense if Josh were to get hurt.  

 

As I understand it, Barkley was very successful in the pre-season game making passes to his first read.  Regular season games against first team defenses might require him to go to his second or third read.  That might muddy up the differences between them a bit.  

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Might as well drop the 2nd half here too. Lotta mo O-snaps here.

 

1st series Offense 74-65-62-70-72
1st & 10) Boettger whiffs, Allen gets sacked and Doyle gets hurt in the pileup.
2nd & 20) Incomplete, drop by Shavers. Good pass by Allen tho. Doyle actually singles the edge rusher.
3rd & 20) Hell of a completion to Ateman. Colts ran a left end stunt, it was swallowed by the Bills interior.
1st & 10) Swing to Mims for big gain. Anderson got beat but it was a quick throw.
1st & 10) Handoff Mims for 2. Good push from the IOL and Doyle pulls to pop the end.
2nd & 😎 The Pick Six. Allen double-clutches because Van Demark and Boettger let 91 go to get out for the screen and he jumps. Doyle ends up 5 yards downfield because of that too. Gotta put that one on Allen, you can't double-clutch a WR screen.

 

 

Please say that again, a little bit louder, for the people in the back of the room

 

I want to like "you say Boettger, I say Stallion" as Dion Dawkins said in 2021.  But man, he looked awful.  And in addition he had a terrible, no good, very bad day.

 

PS btw very very good capture, thanks a lot for these.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Beck Water

[Sierra Foothills]

13 hours ago, White Linen said:

I don't think he put on a masterclass but I don't think he was trash either.  He did more good than bad IMO and I was expecting something awful based on feedback here vs being able to watch at 7 am on Sundays replay.  My other two buddies and my 2 teenagers all felt that way.

 

We all said, man we were expecting much worse.   

 

12 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Helps to keep low expectations, I suppose...

 

Exactly Rocky.

 

The moral of the story isn't that Kyle Allen played well... it's that you (@White Linen) were expecting him to look worse.

 

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Your math if off. 

 

Your spelling is off.

 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Chaos said:

nope, i am willing to learn. 

 

Being able to run in the redzone definitely helps. Teams don't respect the Bills run game down there aside from the Josh keep and there were times (especially 2 years ago under Daboll) where they were seeing light boxes in the redzone, Josh was checking into runs and Singletary was getting dropped for a loss of 2 against a light box. 

 

Again it isn't about running more. It is about running better. If 1st and Goal from the 8 defenses feel they have to commit a 7th man to the box it stands to reason there is one fewer player in coverage if Allen drops back. 

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Being able to run in the redzone definitely helps. Teams don't respect the Bills run game down there aside from the Josh keep and there were times (especially 2 years ago under Daboll) where they were seeing light boxes in the redzone, Josh was checking into runs and Singletary was getting dropped for a loss of 2 against a light box. 

 

Again it isn't about running more. It is about running better. If 1st and Goal from the 8 defenses feel they have to commit a 7th man to the box it stands to reason there is one fewer player in coverage if Allen drops back. 

so you agree “ a more balanced attack” doesn’t have anything to do with improved res zone performance.   (Note- I already understood a better executed run game would improve red zone performance)

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Chaos said:

so you agree “ a more balanced attack” doesn’t have anything to do with improved res zone performance.   (Note- I already understood a better executed run game would improve red zone performance)

 

In which case yea, I take the point. More running isn't the answer for the Bills anywhere. They just have to run better.