boyst Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Beck Water said: Good stuff, Thanks. Question: Riverboat Ron said at times, he had to dial back Sean’s aggression. Could you see any hints what he meant by that? I ***** hate "riverboat" ron I used to watch a lot of panthers games. The Bills were crumby and panthers were entertaining, at the least. I would lurk the Panthers boards a lot, sometimes log in and mock them. But, when he came up with the Riverboat Ron schtick people laughed their ass off. His entire lackluster career has been conservative and boring. He skipped many chances to be aggressive, to go for the jugular, to be more than hovering over he win vs swoop in and take it. That he says Sean was more aggressive, and he did back in Carolina rings odd to me. Rivera was a kitty who had a weird reputation beyond his actual reality, ability. Rivera squandered talent on that roster with Newton, Smith, that TE, a very good OL, and 3 headed beast on offense. Their defense was stacked but could have been better. Rivera was rightfully moved out of Carolina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: That doesn’t mean every single players a superstar Coach McDermott has gotten a lot out of a little plenty … 1-52 he develops as good as anyone He coaches and develops 5th round milano into an All pro… He coaches and develops sixth round Christian benford into starting as a rookie coached up udfa Levi Wallace into a starter … 6th round Dane Jackson… we literally had nobody Justin zimmer playing meaningful snaps and making some plays.. McDermott can coach McDermott absolutely maximizes his coaching ability from player one through 52 but really coaches up the back end as good as anyone Every coach is forced to put backups in starter position every year due to injuries etc--they all have to take "meaningful snaps" at some point. When in, they are paid to make plays. Backups have to play in the NFL every week--it's not coaching genius that makes them functional. It's skill, preparedness and necessity. Wallace struggled his whole time here. He just had his best season in LV. Benford will be a backup to White. Jackson will go back to being a backup behind a second year player. Look, he's a good coach. Getting "a lot out of a little" is fine and all, but getting the most out of your best players in the most important games is the metric that actually separates the HCs in this league, not coaching up benchwarmers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Every coach is forced to put backups in starter position every year due to injuries etc--they all have to take "meaningful snaps" at some point. When in, they are paid to make plays. Backups have to play in the NFL every week--it's not coaching genius that makes them functional. It's skill, preparedness and necessity. Wallace struggled his whole time here. He just had his best season in LV. Benford will be a backup to White. Jackson will go back to being a backup behind a second year player. Look, he's a good coach. Getting "a lot out of a little" is fine and all, but getting the most out of your best players in the most important games is the metric that actually separates the HCs in this league, not coaching up benchwarmers. Wallace did not suck his entire time here All we did was try to replace him with veterans and young players and he continuously beat them out Nobody is saying he’s a top 15 corner in the league… But he absolutely was in the top 45 And that’s pure development from the practice squad on op and McDermitt knowing how to teach defensive backs Sure every team places out replacement level guys… and they usually are instantly exposed levi Wallace Never got torched for 200 yards and 3 touchdowns in a game… Not even a buck 50 Dane Jackson is extremely limited and While he has given up plays has never been exposed He doesn’t put a person out there that looks lost when they have time to prepare… You can’t say that about the rest of the league and I understand your point about getting the most out of your best when you need it… I do and the bills need that Edited June 16, 2023 by Buffalo716 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Wallace did not suck his entire time here All we did was try to replace him with veterans and young players and he continuously beat them out Nobody is saying he’s a top 15 corner in the league… But he absolutely was in the top 45 And that’s pure development from the practice squad on op and McDermitt knowing how to teach defensive backs Sure every team places out replacement level guys… and they usually are instantly exposed levi Wallace Never got torched for 200 yards and 3 touchdowns in a game… Not even a buck 50 Dane Jackson is extremely limited and While he has given up plays has never been exposed He doesn’t put a person out there that looks lost when they have time to prepare… You can’t say that about the rest of the league and I understand your point about getting the most out of your best when you need it… I do and the bills need that You are arguing against something I didn't say. But did struggle. How many CBs in the history of the game have "gotten torched for 200 yards"? What a bizarre measuring stick. How many times does that happen in the course of a 285 game season? How times in the past 10 years? Every backup will look lost in a game or two. Many others will also not be "instantly exposed"....but will be exposed at some point. This is all obviously true...and true no matter the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You are arguing against something I didn't say. But did struggle. How many CBs in the history of the game have "gotten torched for 200 yards"? What a bizarre measuring stick. How many times does that happen in the course of a 285 game season? How times in the past 10 years? Every backup will look lost in a game or two. Many others will also not be "instantly exposed"....but will be exposed at some point. This is all obviously true...and true no matter the coach. A decent amount of cornerbacks give up 150 yards during the course of the season… They have a bad day at the office… Especially when you’re a back up role player Justin rodgers was forced to play outside corner vs the jets in 2013… Where he single-handedly gave up over 200 yards… I will never forget that That’s being a mismatch on the field… Wallace wasn’t that bad of a player Wallace rarely even got beat over the top in his time here … He gave up some yards in between the 20s But wasn’t that much of a liability… Even as an undrafted free agent rookie he wasn’t getting torched like that He’s an NFL level corner who is scheme specific who is replaceable simple as that… that’s not a bum tho Nathan peterman …. Terrible , sure Edited June 16, 2023 by Buffalo716 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 The big question. Will we have more or less bizarre ill-timed defensive timeouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: A decent amount of cornerbacks give up 150 yards during the course of the season… They have a bad day at the office… Especially when you’re a back up role player Justin rodgers was forced to play outside corner vs the jets in 2013… Where he single-handedly gave up over 200 yards… I will never forget that That’s being a mismatch on the field… Wallace wasn’t that bad of a player Wallace rarely even got beat over the top in his time here … He gave up some yards in between the 20s But wasn’t that much of a liability… Even as an undrafted free agent rookie he wasn’t getting torched like that He’s an NFL level corner who is scheme specific who is replaceable simple as that… that’s not a bum tho Nathan peterman …. Terrible , sure no one said he’s a bum or that he sucked. He struggled often. but I get it, you feel McDs talent is very unique. Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: no one said he’s a bum or that he sucked. He struggled often. but I get it, you feel McDs talent is very unique. Ok. I’m not saying coach McDermott is the best coach I’ve ever seen or the best in the NFL right now But I do think he’s squarely in the top 8-9 And he has some really positive traits that outweigh his current faults 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reks Ryan Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The Bills had the #1 Defensive in DVOA Metrics last year, and were 2nd in DVOA behind Dallas in 2021. The Bills have had a consistent top defense, and were able to withstand several key injuries, until the Bengals game. We can count on McDermott & co having a disciplined top tier D, the question is can they produce the game changing plays and big stops against the best QBs to take the team over the top this year? For example, I would argue that Philly, SF and maybe Cinci were more effective big play Defenses last year. Checking DVOA stats an interesting fact is that the BIlls were the first team since 2015, and only the 7th in the last 40 years to be ranked in the top 5 DVOA in all 3 phases. 2022 Bills were #1 D, #4 Offense, #1 ST. You don't achieve that if you are not a well coached team with effective play calling. Teams with Top 5 DVOA in All 3 Phases, 1981-2022 1985 CHICAGO 1991 WASHINGTON 1992 PHILADELPHIA 1996 GREEN BAY 2012 SEATTLE 2015 SEATTLE 2022 BUFFALO 3 of those teams won the SB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo44 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Honestly, I have a hard time forgiving him for 13 seconds, especially if he took over gamecalling as rumored. That was our best chance for a championship and was a total choke job from the lack of pooch kick to the defensive formation. He literally had to do 10 things wrong to lose the game and proceeded to do those 10 things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Justin rodgers was forced to play outside corner vs the jets in 2013… Where he single-handedly gave up over 200 yards… I will never forget that Me neither. That was ridiculous. @Mark Vader and I were watching at the local bar and I blame that performance for my poor attendance from there on out lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 22 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Good stuff. Found an interview from 2011 when he was first hired as he explained trying to blend the Jim Johnson defense with the Ron Rivera defense. He mentions a lot of the things you referenced. It's going to be interesting to see the degree to which this defense changes. It may not look that much different but I'm intrigued none the less https://www.panthers.com/video/sean-mcdermott-interview-3338560 22 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Everybody on this board needs to listen to Sean here vintage McDermott, scrawny voice and all… the only thing he didn’t do is clap he is a very smart defensive coach and I always loved that he WANTS TO DICTATE… no vice versa you force your opponent into doing what you want … not play into his hand "Well...we don't sit back very much; we're an attack-oriented defense." McDermott has pretty consistently defined his ideal philosophies on both sides of the ball as aggressive, attacking, dictating. It seems to most that when he has overtly intervened on in-game defensive play-calling/coaching, McDermott has sought more aggression. Sometimes that means the calls look similar pre-snap, but he urges the players to trust their reads/keys more and play downhill. Him pulling aside Milano during the Patriot MNF wind game and gesturing to knife through the gaps is my best anecdotal evidence of not changing the play calls, exactly, but changing the player's mindset/approach within that scheme. Don't play on your heels. Trust your eyes. Attack the play. We all of course hope for more aggressive plays called, too. Mug the A-gaps. Disrupt the timing. Disguise your pressures and coverages. Mix it up and don't let them dictate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 2:24 AM, Buffalo716 said: I’ve had some time in the last couple weeks… To review Sean McDermott the defensive coordinator Since he will be the guy most responsible for our success this season,.. As the head man and defensive shot caller I’ve seen a lot of snaps from McDermott from Philadelphia through Carolina and even watching how the defense has morphed in Buffalo I would not call him a schematic guru… but he learned from Jim Johnson … one of the best schematic blitzers Many of Seans principles that he learned from Johnson have become Staples in the game… Such as loading up the box in a duel a gap pressure… Vintage Johnson McDermott.. or feigning pressure Sean does rely on the talent of his front four… But as 4 doesn’t get home for a quarter and a half… He’s willing to bring five… And if five doesnt hit… 6 He will not let you sit back for 60 minutes and pick you apart while being comfortable… He hides combination coverages… And prefers press man on third downs… He also gets the most out of every player he has over 15 years nothing he does is super exotic.., but it serves a purpose… he will give you a look 4 times… and pull out and go coverage 4 straight … but the 5th… he brings 6 and you can’t block it his situational awareness stands out defensively… being complacent is a death sentence … he hides everything as good as anybody and don’t be surprised to see a lot more safety blitzes sprinkled in im 💯 confident with Sean and I’m excited to see our new look defense with new faces 23 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Everybody on this board needs to listen to Sean here vintage McDermott, scrawny voice and all… the only thing he didn’t do is clap he is a very smart defensive coach and I always loved that he WANTS TO DICTATE… no vice versa you force your opponent into doing what you want … not play into his hand If this is true, it's absolutely wild to me that he allowed Frazier to run a vanilla defense that didn't do any of these things for the last 6 years. I don't have any reason to doubt you, but basically everything you're saying he excels at is what this team has been lacking since he showed up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 51 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: "Well...we don't sit back very much; we're an attack-oriented defense." McDermott has pretty consistently defined his ideal philosophies on both sides of the ball as aggressive, attacking, dictating. It seems to most that when he has overtly intervened on in-game defensive play-calling/coaching, McDermott has sought more aggression. Sometimes that means the calls look similar pre-snap, but he urges the players to trust their reads/keys more and play downhill. Him pulling aside Milano during the Patriot MNF wind game and gesturing to knife through the gaps is my best anecdotal evidence of not changing the play calls, exactly, but changing the player's mindset/approach within that scheme. Don't play on your heels. Trust your eyes. Attack the play. We all of course hope for more aggressive plays called, too. Mug the A-gaps. Disrupt the timing. Disguise your pressures and coverages. Mix it up and don't let them dictate. The problem with plugging the A gaps and disguising pressure is you need a obvious passing situation for it to be effective 3rd and 3 it’s not as effective… you need a 3rd and 7+ So you can scheme up a combo coverage with simulated pressure to stress the QB and line 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 50 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Him pulling aside Milano during the Patriot MNF wind game and gesturing to knife through the gaps is my best anecdotal evidence of not changing the play calls, exactly, but changing the player's mindset/approach within that scheme. Don't play on your heels. Trust your eyes. Attack the play. He's made a lot of small adjustments like that over the years even though Frazier has called the plays. One other one I remember is the Giants running it down our throats on the opening drive in 2019 (I think). McDermott tells something to the LB's and the defense only gives up seven points the rest of the game. Anyways, since McDermott is getting blasted this week, I thought I'd point out some good stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: If this is true, it's absolutely wild to me that he allowed Frazier to run a vanilla defense that didn't do any of these things for the last 6 years. I don't have any reason to doubt you, but basically everything you're saying he excels at is what this team has been lacking since he showed up. Frazier is more of an aggressive play caller than is perceived and it's not a vanilla defense when he has the majority of his starters available. The problem is he's played too conservative against elite QB's in the playoffs and that's the lasting image we'll have of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Frazier is more of an aggressive play caller than is perceived and it's not a vanilla defense when he has the majority of his starters available. The problem is he's played too conservative against elite QB's in the playoffs and that's the lasting image we'll have of him. It’s far from a vanilla defense … I very rarely trash players or coaches because i know how hard it is Frazier wasn’t running a JV defense he ran a basic nickel package … aka 6 man box … 4 line 2 backers And he didn’t have a penchant for blitzing… BUT everything in the back end was very sophisticated… Your average two Bills Drive poster couldn’t tell the difference between a cover 3 cloud masked in a 2 shell or a Tampa 2 and Frazier like McDermott hid everything… cover 3 looks would be Tampa 2 post snap… feigning dual a gap man could be press quarters … single high safety looks back out to 2 deep man on 1/3 of the field and bracket coverage on the other half very sophisticated coverages… we definitely couldn’t execute them last year while hurt 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 10:24 AM, Buffalo716 said: I’ve had some time in the last couple weeks… To review Sean McDermott the defensive coordinator Since he will be the guy most responsible for our success this season,.. As the head man and defensive shot caller I’ve seen a lot of snaps from McDermott from Philadelphia through Carolina and even watching how the defense has morphed in Buffalo I would not call him a schematic guru… but he learned from Jim Johnson … one of the best schematic blitzers Many of Seans principles that he learned from Johnson have become Staples in the game… Such as loading up the box in a duel a gap pressure… Vintage Johnson McDermott.. or feigning pressure Sean does rely on the talent of his front four… But as 4 doesn’t get home for a quarter and a half… He’s willing to bring five… And if five doesnt hit… 6 He will not let you sit back for 60 minutes and pick you apart while being comfortable… He hides combination coverages… And prefers press man on third downs… He also gets the most out of every player he has over 15 years nothing he does is super exotic.., but it serves a purpose… he will give you a look 4 times… and pull out and go coverage 4 straight … but the 5th… he brings 6 and you can’t block it his situational awareness stands out defensively… being complacent is a death sentence … he hides everything as good as anybody and don’t be surprised to see a lot more safety blitzes sprinkled in im 💯 confident with Sean and I’m excited to see our new look defense with new faces I would feel much better if Frasier stepped away right after the season and we brought in Fangio . I respect McD acumen on D but I have seen Fangio do more with less plus we could’ve kept him from going to Miami, which btw he’s going to have that defense humming ! On 6/16/2023 at 10:24 AM, Buffalo716 said: I’ve had some time in the last couple weeks… To review Sean McDermott the defensive coordinator Since he will be the guy most responsible for our success this season,.. As the head man and defensive shot caller I’ve seen a lot of snaps from McDermott from Philadelphia through Carolina and even watching how the defense has morphed in Buffalo I would not call him a schematic guru… but he learned from Jim Johnson … one of the best schematic blitzers Many of Seans principles that he learned from Johnson have become Staples in the game… Such as loading up the box in a duel a gap pressure… Vintage Johnson McDermott.. or feigning pressure Sean does rely on the talent of his front four… But as 4 doesn’t get home for a quarter and a half… He’s willing to bring five… And if five doesnt hit… 6 He will not let you sit back for 60 minutes and pick you apart while being comfortable… He hides combination coverages… And prefers press man on third downs… He also gets the most out of every player he has over 15 years nothing he does is super exotic.., but it serves a purpose… he will give you a look 4 times… and pull out and go coverage 4 straight … but the 5th… he brings 6 and you can’t block it his situational awareness stands out defensively… being complacent is a death sentence … he hides everything as good as anybody and don’t be surprised to see a lot more safety blitzes sprinkled in im 💯 confident with Sean and I’m excited to see our new look defense with new faces The problem is those blitzes get torched by the likes of Burrow and Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: It’s far from a vanilla defense … I very rarely trash players or coaches because i know how hard it is Frazier wasn’t running a JV defense he ran a basic nickel package … aka 6 man box … 4 line 2 backers And he didn’t have a penchant for blitzing… BUT everything in the back end was very sophisticated… Your average two Bills Drive poster couldn’t tell the difference between a cover 3 cloud masked in a 2 shell or a Tampa 2 and Frazier like McDermott hid everything… cover 3 looks would be Tampa 2 post snap… feigning dual a gap man could be press quarters … single high safety looks back out to 2 deep man on 1/3 of the field and bracket coverage on the other half very sophisticated coverages… we definitely couldn’t execute them last year while hurt The average poster here can’t tie their own shoes. Most complain of the result without understanding the nuance that sets up the result. I appreciate your insight to the game, and agree - McD has some very strong qualities to be a great defensive play caller and head coach next season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: I would feel much better if Frasier stepped away right after the season and we brought in Fangio . I respect McD acumen on D but I have seen Fangio do more with less plus we could’ve kept him from going to Miami, which btw he’s going to have that defense humming ! The problem is those blitzes get torched by the likes of Burrow and Mahomes. It’s not about blitzing 6-7 like a madman all game it’s about strategic timing and down and distance …. Frazier on 3 and 12 will feign pressure and drop 7 rush 4…. Not even a bad move with the bills ability to hide coverage McDermott and probably the correct answer in a big game is …. show pressure … press man … And bring six… They can’t block it and you’re getting home before they could get 12 yards … He’s gonna have to get rid of it for a 4 yard dink and dunk or get sacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.