Education in America

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

She must have a hell of a food budget...

Careful, over-eaters are now classified an oppressed and marginalized group.  And I understand exercise is a racist activity so if you can bench press your own weight, you're a bigot!  

[Orlando Tim]

There are two large realities we must face when trying to improve education in the future:

1) the lockdowns did a huge amount of damage but trying to "repair" that damage is impossible. We go from here trying to set up a solution from here now, not where we were.

2) separating children by academic ability is overall a good thing. Slow kids don't learn because a quicker learner is in the room. Pushing kids who can barely do simple algebra into higher math is detrimental to the lower kids, especially since they might just need more time to get there.

[Tiberius]

42 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

 

2) separating children by academic ability is overall a good thing. Slow kids don't learn because a quicker learner is in the room. Pushing kids who can barely do simple algebra into higher math is detrimental to the lower kids, especially since they might just need more time to get there.

What if a "slow" kids demands he take higher level classes? Is it just on the teacher to fail the kid or should the administration require the student to show in advance he can handle the work? 

[Tommy Callahan]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

What if a "slow" kids demands he take higher level classes? Is it just on the teacher to fail the kid or should the administration require the student to show in advance he can handle the work? 

I would imagine some kind of IQ test is involved.

 

Same way schools here test kids to see if they should be placed in special classes. 

 

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

What if a "slow" kids demands he take higher level classes? Is it just on the teacher to fail the kid or should the administration require the student to show in advance he can handle the work? 

 

If the kid can't do well in the standard level classes, the answer would be "no, you can't take higher level classes."

[Tiberius]

Just now, Doc said:

 

If the kid can't do well in the standard level classes, the answer would be "no, you can't take higher level classes."

But they have a new attitude and they--actually their parents--believe the challenge of harder course work will transform little Johnny into an academic all-star! 

[B-Man]

 

 

When all students fail, all students are equal

REAGAN REESE

 

https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/19/teachers-union-exec-defends-remote-schooling-learning-loss-equal/

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

What if a "slow" kids demands he take higher level classes? Is it just on the teacher to fail the kid or should the administration require the student to show in advance he can handle the work? 

We have that in Florida, anyone can be in any class they want, so long as they completed prerequisites, and kids end up with C's and D's who can't compete. At this point it really hard to fail, the only students who failed my class accomplished all these things: at least 40 absent classes, caught cheating on a test, and missed 50% or more of homework. I will repeat they did ALL of these because if you do half the homework and show up everyday with minimal effort you get a D. If you do 80% of the homework and don't cheat the minimum you can get is a C. I had a lot of C's

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

I’VE SEEN THE LOCKDOWNS AND THE DAMAGE DONE: 

 

What the New, Low Test Scores for 13-Year-Olds Say About U.S. Education Now.

 

The math and reading performance of 13-year-olds in the United States has hit the lowest level in decades, according to test scores released today from the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the gold-standard federal exam.

 

The last time math performance was this low for 13-year-olds was in 1990. In reading, 2004.

 

Performance has fallen significantly since the 2019-2020 school year, when the coronavirus pandemic wrought havoc on the nation’s education system.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/21/us/naep-test-results-education.html

 

 

 

The pandemic didn’t wreak the havoc. Government and our educators did.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

In FL we had the option of staying home for the 2020-2021 school year and the difference between the kids is substantial even at this point. One of the biggest differences is that kids who were in class had to try and learn on their own while most the kids who stayed home learned how easy it is to cheat by using Google or other software. Many kids understand 80% of what I teach in geometry easily and those with the willingness to finish that other 20% is clearly evident. 

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[Doc]

LOL!  He's talking about Dems right now.

[Big Blitz]

Where in the world would kids have learned “meh, we don’t really need to be here anyway.”  
 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

 

[The Frankish Reich]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:54 AM, Orlando Tim said:

We have that in Florida, anyone can be in any class they want, so long as they completed prerequisites, and kids end up with C's and D's who can't compete. At this point it really hard to fail, the only students who failed my class accomplished all these things: at least 40 absent classes, caught cheating on a test, and missed 50% or more of homework. I will repeat they did ALL of these because if you do half the homework and show up everyday with minimal effort you get a D. If you do 80% of the homework and don't cheat the minimum you can get is a C. I had a lot of C's

Wow. That's depressing.

 

There's room for snark in this forum (and I'll admit I am a participant in that), but I actually check out these topics because it's kind of like a tiny reddit - there are people who actually have experience in a certain area who can provide some insight into things I don't know much about. 

So ... how did we get to this place? I know COVID made things worse, but the trend was already well in place. Checked out or entitled parents? Social media distractions? Bad/bloated school administrators? Burned out teachers? All of the above? 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Wow. That's depressing.

 

There's room for snark in this forum (and I'll admit I am a participant in that), but I actually check out these topics because it's kind of like a tiny reddit - there are people who actually have experience in a certain area who can provide some insight into things I don't know much about. 

So ... how did we get to this place? I know COVID made things worse, but the trend was already well in place. Checked out or entitled parents? Social media distractions? Bad/bloated school administrators? Burned out teachers? All of the above? 

 

This.  As a first-gen Indian American, I can tell you that the reason why Indians are so successful is because our parents stress/stressed the value of education and get/got on our asses to do well in school.  It all starts at home.

[The Frankish Reich]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This.  As a first-gen Indian American, I can tell you that the reason why Indians are so successful is because our parents stress/stressed the value of education and get/got on our asses to do well in school.  It all starts at home.

This has been our experience with our kids. Although not Asian-American, I think maybe my wife and I have a bit of the tiger mommy/daddy thing in us, so we really pushed commitment to schoolwork and excellence. So far, so good. 

Part of that was probably going the private/catholic school route. Not necessarily because the teachers are better (my impression: they aren't), but because your kid is with a similar group of kids with parents who are heavily committed to academic success. Kind of a self-selection thing. 

To get a little political here: this is one of the problems with our school boards/officials. We could do the same thing with public/charter schools, setting up some for the academically gifted (I hate that word; academically committed?). But that might require the dreaded "test-in" thing that the progressives hate. So we tend to settle for the lowest common denominator in the public system. 

[SoCal Deek]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This.  As a first-gen Indian American, I can tell you that the reason why Indians are so successful is because our parents stress/stressed the value of education and get/got on our asses to do well in school.  It all starts at home.

My wife has worked at a Middle School in the public school system in Southern California for decades. Her school and her school district looks like the United Nations when it comes to racial diversity. Most of the posters on here cannot even fathom a society with such diversity. Every year, the same ethnicity of students rise to the top in grades, and dominate the spelling bee. It isn’t a coincidence. There are virtually no exceptions. She will tell you that the parents of these students value and reinforce the need for a good education to get ahead. It’s cultural. It takes hard work and dedication day after day after day. I have no idea why anyone thinks there’s some magic bullet. 

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It isn’t a coincidence. There are virtually no exceptions. She will tell you that the parents of these students value and reinforce the need for a good education to get ahead. It’s cultural. It takes hard work and dedication day after day after day. I have no idea why anyone thinks there’s some magic bullet. 

There's some sacrifice by the parents too. I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I drive cars that are over 10 years old. I live in a big city with a big city school system that is, by any account, troubled. Yet I park next to coworkers with beautiful new $100,000 cars who send their kids to those same public schools. I could have had one or two of those if my kids had gone to public school ...

(Patting myself on the back)

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There's some sacrifice by the parents too. I mentioned in another thread that my wife and I drive cars that are over 10 years old. I live in a big city with a big city school system that is, by any account, troubled. Yet I park next to coworkers with beautiful new $100,000 cars who send their kids to those same public schools. I could have had one or two of those if my kids had gone to public school ...

(Patting myself on the back)

I suspect you've built up a substantial emergency reserve and retirement fund while those folks driving the $100K autos are stretched to the max and one missed paycheck away from trouble.  Lifestyle maximizers.   

 

My dad would call having a sizable rainy day fund as having some degree of financial independence and he would follow that up by saying "if you don't have some level of financial independence you'll never have any real freedom".  I think there's some truth to that statement.  Several years ago my previous assignment ended and as I had some emergency money I didn't have to jump at job opportunities or offers that didn't seem right.  I could wait until the right opportunity came along, which it did.  I haven't had a car payment for 10 years and don't miss it. 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills