FA Cameron Fleming RT Why don't we go get him?

[LABILLBACKER]

49 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I keep hearing this Narrative that Beane and McD are stubborn and stuck with Brown, yet no one has any proof, any voice conversation or video of them saying this.. So, to me because of what I just said, It feels to me like a false narrative. The fact is right now he is as good as Dawkins as you say then at 1.8 mil he would be an easy decision to add to the roster yes? 

Dude first of all I'm agreeing with you. I don't trust Brown's ability. He's been a 62 and 51 pff rated RT for 2 years regardless how you feel about pff. We do need to bring in competition desperately at RT.  And if you're waiting for some video, documentation proof,  you'll be waiting a long time. I don't know if it's Fleming or someone else but I would welcome someone other than Q pushing Brown.  Sooner than you might like the same will go for Dawkins. Unfortunately I think the FA spending is over. I hope I'm wrong but I think it's on to the draft.

[PrimeTime101]

40 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

We want to improve the line, and my point is that this guy would just be a lateral move without the chance for improvement.  I'm hoping we get a starter at RT, and Brown becomes the backup (again, with upside).

 

Maybe he'd be a great candidate for a move to RG though, but we already added two OG's.  I'm not opposed to something like that, if he's a vet minimum kind of guy.  

sometimes you need to make lateral moves in order to survive bad cap situations. 

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Dude first of all I'm agreeing with you. I don't trust Brown's ability. He's been a 62 and 51 pff rated RT for 2 years regardless how you feel about pff. We do need to bring in competition desperately at RT.  And if you're waiting for some video, documentation proof,  you'll be waiting a long time. I don't know if it's Fleming or someone else but I would welcome someone other than Q pushing Brown.  Sooner than you might like the same will go for Dawkins. Unfortunately I think the FA spending is over. I hope I'm wrong but I think it's on to the draft.

i got so many against this idea i miss read your original post. Thanks... I hope your wrong too ha ha... we will see

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

To the bolded, this is how I feel and I feel like I am being slammed for it.  Is this not a win now team? does this GM like drafting defense in early rounds? 1-2? Why not plug what many feel is a hole at RT? IDK if it would turn him off or not.. I think at that age at this point.. its just about getting the money and finishing his career on a strong note. 

Have you noticed what might be a trend with the Bills free agent signings so far? Young FAs signing their second NFL contract. 

What do you think he would cost? Beane likely will only pay close to minimum so as not to ness up the comp picks 

[Einstein's Dog]

45 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm going to disagree even though I agree.  It does bother me that Beane tries to build the OL with jags.  

 

Nonetheless, a GM who produces 4 consecutive 10+ winning seasons is, in fact, good at his job.  Either that, or his Head Coach is a freaking genius.  

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

sometimes you need to make lateral moves in order to survive bad cap situations. 

This is such a poor excuse. Beane and McD decided where they wanted to spend on this team. They chose to address positions other than OT and roll with Brown and Quessenberry. The same holds true for the positions they’ve addressed in the draft. It is what it is.

[HOUSE]

I am broke and so are the Bills

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

Because Beane and the Bills brass have already expressed their belief in Brown and regardless what many fans think, he is their guy at RT moving forward. 

Sad... but true

[MrEpsYtown]

Fleming is a journeyman jag. I question whether he is even better than Quesenberry. Brown could be something special, is cheap, and still

young. 
 

I would take a 1.77 million dollar flyer on Isaiah Wynn. Young guy in his second contract needs a change of scenery and a chance to prove himself. But Fleming is a no for me. Fleming was interesting 5 years ago. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[mrags]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Sad... but true

Yes. Exactly. 

[BarleyNY]

36 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

Dawkins was a 2nd round pick, but your point largely stands. Paying Saffold $6M was sheer stupidity - and I said so at the time. Matching the Bates offer wasn’t as bad of a move, but overpaying him was still pretty bad. Morse was an overpay too, but they kinda had to do that at the time.

 

Putting themselves in a position where they had to count on a player as raw as Brown was dumb too. He was the 3rd OT his rookie year. Last season his competition for RT was Quessenberry. The we-didn’t-expect-him-to-have-to-play garbage from Beane is ridiculous. There’s a good chance that any 3rd OT will have to play a lot of meaningful snaps. Having poor competition (Q) pretty much seals it.

 

I don’t know how McGovern will work out, but OT needs some real help. Dawkins is above average, Brown is below, Q is well below and Doyle shouldn’t be in the NFL. That means that at present we are a Dawkins injury away from hot garbage at OT and Allen getting pummeled by DEs. Beane has to do better than that. 

 

14 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I am broke and so are the Bills

If you need some quick cash I have an acquaintance in Youngstown that needs a package hand delivered to New Jersey. I hear the job pays pretty well.

Edited April 3, 2023 by BarleyNY

[1st&ten]

Hopefully the Bills are serious about drafting a really good tackle this year--someone who could start at RT & maybe move to LT next year & then move Dawkins to guard.

[BillsFanForever19]

We signed our RT FA - it's David Quessenberry. They decided with what they could pay and the options that are out there that he was who they wanted.

 

Beane was never going to outright replace Spencer Brown. He's consistently said he feels he had a down year due to not having a Training Camp after having Back surgery and was dinged up throughout the year.

 

So a low level Free Agent and a mid round pick was always my guess for what his competition would be. I'd be surprised if they Drafted a Tackle in Round 1 because to me that's Beane giving up on Brown, which I don't think he's ready to do this season.

 

Expect an OT somewhere between Rounds 2-4 to join Brown and Quessenberry. There will be a competition. One will start, one will be our backup Swing Tackle, and one will replace Tommy Doyle.

 

27 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

Hopefully the Bills are serious about drafting a really good tackle this year--someone who could start at RT & maybe move to LT next year & then move Dawkins to guard.

 

Dawkins isn't moving to Guard. He's being paid good LT money. He's a 28 year old 2 time Pro Bowler that could play LT elsewhere.

 

We're not going to pay him what we're paying him to play Guard and he's not going to take a big pay cut and a demotion to Guard willingly.

 

He's locked in at LT this season and he'll either be the LT in 2024 (the last year of his deal) or he'll be released or traded to play LT elsewhere.

Edited April 3, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

We signed our RT FA - it's David Quessenberry. They decided with what they could pay and the options that are out there that he was who they wanted.

 

Beane was never going to outright replace Spencer Brown. He's consistently said he feels he had a down year due to not having a Training Camp after having Back surgery and was dinged up throughout the year.

 

So a low level Free Agent and a mid round pick was always my guess for what his competition would be. I'd be surprised if they Drafted a Tackle in Round 1 because to me that's Beane giving up on Brown, which I don't think he's ready to do this season.

 

Expect an OT somewhere between Rounds 2-4 to join Brown and Quessenberry. There will be a competition. One will start, one will be our backup Swing Tackle, and one will replace Tommy Doyle.

 

 

Dawkins isn't moving to Guard. He's being paid good LT money. He's a 28 year old 2 time Pro Bowler that could play LT elsewhere.

 

We're not going to pay him what we're paying him to play Guard and he's not going to take a big pay cut and a demotion to Guard willingly.

 

He's locked in at LT this season and he'll either be the LT in 2024 (the last year of his deal) or he'll be released or traded to play LT elsewhere.

If LT and RT and swing T are already on the roster then I assume you think we’re drafting a Guard or two? 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

If LT and RT and swing T are already on the roster then I assume you think we’re drafting a Guard or two? 

 

We usually keep 9-10 OL on the 53. Generally, 4-5 OT's. We have Brown, Quessenberry, and Doyle (not to mention Dawkins locked in at LT). My guess is we Draft our 4th OT around the same area we Drafted Brown to compete with Brown and at least replace Tommy Doyle. 

 

As for Guard, we have Connor McGovern locked in at LG. I think Ryan Bates is safer at RG than most give him credit for. But it wouldn't shock me to see him usurped by David Edwards or a high Draft Pick.

 

I think a 1st Round OG is more likely than a 1st Round OT, but I still don't think that's very likely. I believe Round 1 will be a WR, LB, TE, or DL. 

 

But I digress, I think we'll Draft 1 IOL. We have McGovern, Bates, Edwards, and Boettger right now (not to mention Morse locked in at Center). We generally keep 5 Interior Lineman. I think McG, Bates, and Edwards (and of course Morse at Center) are locked in. 

 

So yeah, 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 6.

Edited April 4, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[BillsNutHawaii]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

accept they not overlooking the OL this year. What we did in FA proves that fact

used the wrong word in the middle of 3 nephews having a hissy fit. God I love babysitting lol. I did not mean that word. thanks i will edit. 

 

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

accept they not overlooking the OL this year. What we did in FA proves that fact

used the wrong word in the middle of 3 nephews having a hissy fit. God I love babysitting lol. I did not mean that word. thanks i will edit. 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

[BillsFanForever19]

7 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

 

What if they take 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 4, in addition to McGovern, Edwards, and re-signing Quessenberry and Boettger? This is my expectation.

 

Fact is, between our cap situation and what Beane has said about the OL postseason - the idea that we were going to completely overhaul the OL was just wishful thinking from certain fans.

 

He still has faith in Spencer Brown and there is merit to the idea that Back Surgery, the lack of an offseason, and being dinged up stunted his ability and growth. So outright replacing him was something he was never interested in.

 

You may look at McGovern as "mid level". But with how quickly he was signed and especially for what he was signed for says to me he was valued by our scouts and scouts around the league. We had to pay what we had to pay because there was competition.

 

Beane isn't sitting on his hands and doing nothing. He's covering his bases, filling the holes, and bringing in competition - and I'm expecting more in term of Draft Picks. But we were never going to overhaul the line and bring in Orlando Brown or Ben Powers level FA's. We couldn't, even if he wanted to.

 

Given we were able to get 24 million under the cap with 24 FA's, I think he's done a good job addressing the OL so far. 1 more OT and 1 more OG in the first 4 Rounds and I think he'll have done an even better job and maybe the best he could.

Edited April 4, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

Have you noticed what might be a trend with the Bills free agent signings so far? Young FAs signing their second NFL contract. 

What do you think he would cost? Beane likely will only pay close to minimum so as not to ness up the comp picks 

31 year old won't mess up the comps

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

This is such a poor excuse. Beane and McD decided where they wanted to spend on this team. They chose to address positions other than OT and roll with Brown and Quessenberry. The same holds true for the positions they’ve addressed in the draft. It is what it is.

yep

53 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

Me either

Edited April 3, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We usually keep 9-10 OL on the 53. Generally, 4-5 OT's. We have Brown, Quessenberry, and Doyle (not counting Dawkins locked in at LT). My guess is we Draft our 4th OT around the same area we Drafted Brown to compete with Brown and at least replace Tommy Doyle. 

 

As for Guard, we have Connor McGovern locked in at LG. I think Ryan Bates is safer at RG than most give him credit for. But it wouldn't shock me to see him usurped by David Edwards or a high Draft Pick.

 

I think a 1st Round OG is more likely than a 1st Round OT, but I still don't think that's very likely. I believe Round 1 will be a WR, LB, TE, or DL. 

 

But I digress, I think we'll Draft 1 IOL. We have McGovern, Bates, Edwards, and Boettger right now (not counting Morse kicked in at Center). We generally keep 4-5 Interior Lineman. I think McG, Bates, and Edwards (and of course Morse at Center) are locked in. 

 

So yeah, 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 6.

Just a side note....Edwards was a RT in college

[BillsFanForever19]

18 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

Just a side note....Edwards was a RT in college

 

Good to have flexibility if we're in a bind, but Edwards is a Guard. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

Unless RAS means " Really Ass Slow" feet then yes he is elite.  Just because your dumb enough to waste 6M on a scrub doesn't mean he's not a jag.