Jump to content

The Bills need worse recievers


Zerovoltz

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

After Kelce retires there will be other guys that Mahomes (along with Reid’s offense) will elevate. Other team fans will say if Mahomes doesn’t have so and so he won’t be as productive. All the while missing the point that Mahomes is the reason his receivers are productive. 

 

Kelce had two 1,000 yard seasons before Mahomes. Tyreek Hill and Marquez Valdes-Scantling had the best yardage seasons of their career with a different QB throwing them the ball. It's a myth that great QBs can turn WRs into somebody they aren't. Of course a great QB will elevate their weapons' production simply because the QB's added production has to show up somewhere, but WRs are who they are regardless of who's throwing them the ball. For example Gabe Davis is a limited WR that only runs one type of route at a high level and has a bizarre catch technique that leads to more drops than average. He will always be that receiver whether Allen is throwing him the ball or Mahomes or Nate Peterman. And if you do a modicum of research you'll see that Allen has elevated all of his targets throughout his career too.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

There's some misperception here that in order to succeed a QB seems to need two of the five top WRs in the league or the like.  

 

No, just that Super Bowl caliber teams need a better #2 receiving target than Gabe Davis. That has been the case for all 12 teams that participated in each of the last 6 Super Bowls, at least. I don't need Chase and Higgins. I think Diggs and Beasley in their prime is likely the minimum standard for what a Super Bowl contender needs, and it's no coincidence that the one time we reached the AFCCG in the Allen era we had that minimum standard met. Davis is below that standard.

  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

No, just that Super Bowl caliber teams need a better #2 receiving target than Gabe Davis. That has been the case for all 12 teams that participated in each of the last 6 Super Bowls, at least. I don't need Chase and Higgins. I think Diggs and Beasley in their prime is likely the minimum standard for what a Super Bowl contender needs, and it's no coincidence that the one time we reached the AFCCG in the Allen era we had that minimum standard met. Davis is below that standard.

 

OK, let's start here.  What has Diggs done in our last five playoff games that Davis has not done? 

 

Secondly, what's your explanation of our 2021 season KC playoff game?  

 

Thirdly, back to my point, taking simply Brady's second and third Super Bowl seasons, Brady had as his second WRs in those seasons, first in one of them, Patten and Givins.  Are you suggesting that either one of those was better than Davis?  Before you answer that you may want to take a look at their career stats, catch%, etc.  

 

What you said is simply mimicking the narrative.  There's little behind it.  

 

Remember, our problem is in the playoffs, not in the regular season racking up stats.  

 

 

Edited by PBF81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

OK, let's start here.  What has Diggs done in our last five playoff games that Davis has not done? 

 

Diggs gets punished in the playoffs because defenses know if they stop him no one else behind him will pick up the slack. That was a problem for the entire second half of this past season too. Analytics shows that the #2 target is almost just as important as the #1 target in the modern NFL when it comes to reaching and winning the Super Bowl. The reason is because of what I just decribed... defenses are better and smarter in the playoffs so it's harder to funnel the whole offense through one guy.

 

27 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Secondly, what's your explanation of our 2021 season KC playoff game?  

 

My explanation is that Mike Hughes had one of the worst individual performances I've ever seen from a player in a playoff game. That and Tyrann Mathieu was out of the game for the entire second half. Davis was the beneficiary of these factors, plus of course Allen played out of his mind. But if we want Davis consistently facing #3 and lower quality DBs on the depth chart in playoff games we can't hope for injury. We have to put players above him on OUR depth chart so that he automatically gets more favorable matchups. Like he did in 2020 which for my money is still the best season of his career when you account for target share (best yards per target, best TDs per target, and best catch percentage of his career).

 

27 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

taking simply Brady's second and third Super Bowl seasons

 

I mean this is ancient history. It's meaningless to even bring up. Recent NFL history shows that Davis is not worthy of being the #2 target for a Super Bowl participant. I already put this in another thread, but this is a list of the #2 receiving targets of the most recent 6 Super Bowl participants, the winners and the losers:

 

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Devonta Smith

OBJ

Tee Higgins

Chris Godwin (in an almost dead heat with Rob Gronkowski)

Tyreek Hill

Tyreek Hill

Deebo Samuel

Julian Edelman

Brandin Cooks

Zach Ertz

Rob Gronkowski

 

As I said the last time I posted this, JuJu is likely the weakest link on that entire list and even he has a 1,400 yard season on his resume. This is the standard of the modern NFL era. Davis doesn't belong on that list. And unless something changes before December we will have to hope that the rest of our team is good enough to break a six-season trend.

 

Edited by HappyDays
  • Awesome! (+1) 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Kelce had two 1,000 yard seasons before Mahomes. Tyreek Hill and Marquez Valdes-Scantling had the best yardage seasons of their career with a different QB throwing them the ball. It's a myth that great QBs can turn WRs into somebody they aren't. Of course a great QB will elevate their weapons' production simply because the QB's added production has to show up somewhere, but WRs are who they are regardless of who's throwing them the ball. For example Gabe Davis is a limited WR that only runs one type of route at a high level and has a bizarre catch technique that leads to more drops than average. He will always be that receiver whether Allen is throwing him the ball or Mahomes or Nate Peterman. And if you do a modicum of research you'll see that Allen has elevated all of his targets throughout his career too.

Do you have any examples of this or is this myth your opinion? Of course any great receivers will be great (meaning getting open) regardless of who’s throwing the ball. But the better the qb the more balls those receivers will get. It’s useless to get open but the qb can’t get you the ball. Look at Hill during the Smith years with KC.

 

Diggs and Davis is a dynamic combo. It’s up to Allen (and Dorsey) to unlock that. There has been flashes but nothing consistent. Hoping for more consistency this coming season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Diggs gets punished in the playoffs because defenses know if they stop him no one else behind him will pick up the slack. That was a problem for the entire second half of this past season too. Analytics shows that the #2 target is almost just as important as the #1 target in the modern NFL when it comes to reaching and winning the Super Bowl. The reason is because of what I just decribed... defenses are better and smarter in the playoffs so it's harder to funnel the whole offense through one guy.

 

 

My explanation is that Mike Hughes had one of the worst individual performances I've ever seen from a player in the a playoff game. That and Tyrann Mathieu was out of the game for the entire second half. Davis was the beneficiary of these factors, plus of course Allen played out of his mind. But if we want Davis consistently facing #3 and lower quality DBs on the depth chart in playoff games we can't hope for injury. We have to put players above him on OUR depth chart so that he automatically gets more favorable matchups. Like he did in 2020 which for my money is still the best season of his career when you account for target share (best yards per target, best TDs per target, and best catch percentage of his career).

 

 

I mean this is ancient history. It's meaningless to even bring up. Recent NFL history shows that Davis is not worthy of being the #2 target for a Super Bowl participant. I already put this in another thread, but this is a list of the #2 receiving targets of the most recent 6 Super Bowl participants, the winners and the losers:

 

JuJu Smith-Schuster

Devonta Smith

OBJ

Tee Higgins

Chris Godwin (in an almost dead heat with Rob Gronkowski)

Tyreek Hill

Tyreek Hill

Deebo Samuel

Julian Edelman

Brandin Cooks

Zach Ertz

Rob Gronkowski

 

As I said the last time I posted this, JuJu is likely the weakest link on that entire list and even he has a 1,400 yard season on his resume. This is the standard of the modern NFL era. Davis doesn't belong on that list. And unless something changes before December we will have to hope that the rest of our team is good enough to break a six-season trend.

 

I can see a little merit in what you say, but that last part I'm not seeing.  Let's look at the 2018 season, Brady still posted top numbers with Edelman, Josh Gordon, and Chris Hogan as his top-3 WRs, he won the Super Bowl.  Which validates that point alone.  Rodgers is another great example, he's hardly had great talent and generally not much more than Brady had, but he's posted very good passing numbers.  

 

As to the rest, I would agree entirely if the opponents that we played all had top passing defenses, but they didn't.  Last season Cincy had the 16th ranked passing D and Miami the 27th, which allowed both Diggs and Davis to post good games vs. Miami.  It's not as if Cincy's passing D was "unsolveable," right?  That's what good coaches do.  

 

In 2021 NE had the 2nd ranked passing D and KC the 27th ranked passing D, and against KC, one of the worst passing Ds in the league, Diggs had 3 catches for 7 yards.  Chase, Burrow's #1 had 6 for 54 and a TD against the same team in the playoffs.  In KC's game vs. Pittsburgh in the same playoffs, the washed up Roethlisburger's #1 also had a better game with 5 for 34 and a TD with Roeth spreading the ball out efficiently, which also feeds into the greater point.  

 

Again thought, fairly, there is some validity to your point in general.  

 

Let's also not lose sight of the original argument, the better QBs do more with what they do have.  It also hasn't escaped notice that every single offseason we talk about how our WRs suck as if we can only be good enough if we have several of the top-10 WRs or something.  It makes me wonder that if a QB really needs all the best WRs then how can he be that good.  

 

I digress on Brady and the "ancient history" argument to an extent as well.  It's not as sexy to have a bunch of average WRs, but the emphasis in the league these days is passing, but that doesn't mean that a team cannot succeed without a "top-5" WR.  

 

To me, my argument from the onset is the lack of properly optimizing our WRs.  I wasn't happy that they released Beasley, who was Allen's outlet during his best season easily, but most disturbing re: that was that they made no backup plan, at least not a good one, to take his place.  I understand the negative sentiments, which wouldn't have made me get rid of him or renegotiated his contract, but if you do that you should at least have a plan in replacement, we did not, at least not a good one.  

 

Then there's Hines, who was the Colts 3rd leading receiver in his rookie season in 2018, their 2nd leading receiver in 2019 & 2021, and leading receiver in 2020, and here he had 9 targets in as many games, catching 5 of them, whereas in Indy he averaged 68 targets and 52 catches/season.  You're never going anywhere if that's how your talent is managed.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/1/2023 at 8:10 PM, Zerovoltz said:

That isn't a typo.

 

Josh Allen is elite now.  Diggs served his purpose, much like Tyreek Hill served his in Kansas City.  They gave shooting star QB's reliable, talented targets they could confidently throw to, helping to establish confidence and develop the QB's mental game.  

 

Hill complained after being traded (at least he watied to make this public when he was already gone) that he wasn't being focused on enough, or getting enough targets...etc.

The Chiefs traded him away, used the assets and cap space to improve other parts of the team, AND then went out and performed even better on offense.  I strongly believe that a reason why this happend is becasue Mahomes was entirely free to run each and every play with the idea that making the most optimal throw is what mattered.  Not to massage an ego or placate a guy wanting a larger role etc.  You can make a strong case KC's WR room isn't any great shakes.  I'd agree with that.  They don't need to be.  Zach Wilson isn't our QB....and he's not the Bills QB either.  Josh Freaking Allen is.  Allen doesn't need elite, high cots WR's to shine now.   

 

I know the Bills are committed to this season as an all in, all chips to the middle of the table type season....that's fine.  I wouldn't even say that it's a bad idea....but I think it would be better if you moved Diggs for all you could possibly get, go sign a couple vets who need to prove it, who have maybe some low self esteem because they've fallen out of favor due to injury etc....get a couple mid level guys who you know are good pros.  Let ALLEN run the team.. let HIM dictate the best place for the ball to go.  It's his job to run as efficient, well managed offense as he possibly can....not make sure pouting WR's see the ball X number of times a game.

 

Use the resources to add to your team in areas that Allen doesn't directly impact, like the defense etc.  If the guys work out...they move on, sign big deal somewhere else...and you reload with a couple more dudes who need to prove it again.  There is never a shortage of these guys and they overplay their contracts consistantly.  Plus, you'll be supplimenting these WR's with WR's you draft who are cheap and cost controlled.  

 

ALLEN is it. He's why you are 3rd best odds to win Super Bowl this upcoming season.. LEAN INTO IT.

* RECEIVERS * 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, let's start here.  What has Diggs done in our last five playoff games that Davis has not done? 

 

Secondly, what's your explanation of our 2021 season KC playoff game?  

 

Thirdly, back to my point, taking simply Brady's second and third Super Bowl seasons, Brady had as his second WRs in those seasons, first in one of them, Patten and Givins.  Are you suggesting that either one of those was better than Davis?  Before you answer that you may want to take a look at their career stats, catch%, etc.  

 

What you said is simply mimicking the narrative.  There's little behind it.  

 

Remember, our problem is in the playoffs, not in the regular season racking up stats.  

 

 

 

@HappyDays has thoroughly answered your question marked sentences.

 

But to your last point........

 

The problem has shown up in the playoffs.........but not only there.

 

It's easy for some to forget that the 21' team failed to earn home field advantage over KC(despite beating them in KC in the regular season) in great part because Beasley fell off greatly and they had also lost the explosiveness they'd had in John Brown during the first half of their 2020 season..........which was the high point for their receiving corps and a place in time where some Bills fans still think they are for some reason.   

 

They've had some horrible, inexcusable, damaging regular season losses......Jacksonville in 21' and NYJ in 22' in particular......... where they needed someone other than Diggs to step up and make plays in the passing game........clever defensive gameplans that allowed the far inferior teams defenses to dictate terms to the Bills offense.  

 

And in both games they also called on Gabe to catch an important pass late........and he instead spilled those catchable balls on the turf.  

 

Gabe has NOT been good enough.

 

The only argument against that is if someone thinks Gabe is going to be much better.   I don't know how anyone can have watched him play week-in and week-out and expect that.    It's not realistic.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have an issue w/ the premise.

 

Having top wideouts is enticing as a fan.  But I look at those Pats teams - the only time they really invested in WR was Moss, and that actually ended up not working out.

 

It's about the lines and protecting Allen. Give Allen time, and he can get the ball to anyone.

 

  • Agree 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

@HappyDays has thoroughly answered your question marked sentences.

 

But to your last point........

 

The problem has shown up in the playoffs.........but not only there.

 

It's easy for some to forget that the 21' team failed to earn home field advantage over KC(despite beating them in KC in the regular season) in great part because Beasley fell off greatly and they had also lost the explosiveness they'd had in John Brown during the first half of their 2020 season..........which was the high point for their receiving corps and a place in time where some Bills fans still think they are for some reason.   

 

They've had some horrible, inexcusable, damaging regular season losses......Jacksonville in 21' and NYJ in 22' in particular......... where they needed someone other than Diggs to step up and make plays in the passing game........clever defensive gameplans that allowed the far inferior teams defenses to dictate terms to the Bills offense.  

 

And in both games they also called on Gabe to catch an important pass late........and he instead spilled those catchable balls on the turf.  

 

Gabe has NOT been good enough.

 

The only argument against that is if someone thinks Gabe is going to be much better.   I don't know how anyone can have watched him play week-in and week-out and expect that.    It's not realistic.

 

Gabe has been fine in the playoffs.   Who cares about the regular season, that hasn't been a problem for us.  Why is that so difficult for people to grasp.  We can say "we've won the regular season" in essence.  17-0, 10-7, as long as a team makes the playoffs, it's what the team does therein that matters.  Every player on the team will tell you that.  

 

As to the playoffs, once again, we had the AFC Championship in '21 won!  ... and likely the Super Bowl as well.  The reason why we lost it wasn't because of talent; it wasn't because of Davis, to the contrary in fact regarding Davis;  it wasn't because of Allen, it was 100% because of McD, who, once again, snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, something that is difficult envisioning any other of the 31 coaches in the league doing.  The offense played lights out ball.  The D not so much, more impugning of McD, our marvy D-minded coach.  

 

What, it's a real reach to think that a new coach wouldn't do things that are that galactically stupid?  

 

I'm not sure how else to put it.  It was idiocy and/or incompetence at its finest.  We have a perpetual place now in the annuls of NFL playoff dunderheadedness as  direct result.  But we're expected to believe that someone that did that and other dunderheaded things in the playoffs will one day pull his head out of his a$$ far enough to be able to breath and see straight for 4 entire playoff games against the best teams in the league when we can't even get our O and D to both bring their A-games to any given game with even the remotest of regularity?  
 

IDK, that's simply seems like misplaced faith and hope if you ask me.  

 

Again, this season will spell out much.  We essentially have the Panthers' coaching staff from 2011-2016 guiding our team this season.  So should we expect more than they delivered during those six seasons in Carolina, which is about what we've gotten here to date?  

 

Other than this faith in completely nebulous things, I'm not sure what there is concrete to offer the hope that everyone has.  That's what many of us see.  Of course we hope that we're wrong, but there's nothing indicative that that's the case.  

 

Go Bills!!! 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Gabe has been fine in the playoffs.   Who cares about the regular season, that hasn't been a problem for us.  Why is that so difficult for people to grasp.  We can say "we've won the regular season" in essence.  17-0, 10-7, as long as a team makes the playoffs, it's what the team does therein that matters.  Every player on the team will tell you that.  

 

As to the playoffs, once again, we had the AFC Championship in '21 won!  ... and likely the Super Bowl as well.  The reason why we lost it wasn't because of talent; it wasn't because of Davis, to the contrary in fact regarding Davis;  it wasn't because of Allen, it was 100% because of McD, who, once again, snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, something that is difficult envisioning any other of the 31 coaches in the league doing.  The offense played lights out ball.  The D not so much, more impugning of McD, our marvy D-minded coach.  

 

What, it's a real reach to think that a new coach wouldn't do things that are that galactically stupid?  

 

I'm not sure how else to put it.  It was idiocy and/or incompetence at its finest.  We have a perpetual place now in the annuls of NFL playoff dunderheadedness as  direct result.  But we're expected to believe that someone that did that and other dunderheaded things in the playoffs will one day pull his head out of his a$$ far enough to be able to breath and see straight for 4 entire playoff games against the best teams in the league when we can't even get our O and D to both bring their A-games to any given game with even the remotest of regularity?  
 

IDK, that's simply seems like misplaced faith and hope if you ask me.  

 

Again, this season will spell out much.  We essentially have the Panthers' coaching staff from 2011-2016 guiding our team this season.  So should we expect more than they delivered during those six seasons in Carolina, which is about what we've gotten here to date?  

 

Other than this faith in completely nebulous things, I'm not sure what there is concrete to offer the hope that everyone has.  That's what many of us see.  Of course we hope that we're wrong, but there's nothing indicative that that's the case.  

 

Go Bills!!! 

 

 

 

 

Not having home field and a first round bye in any of these seasons has been very detrimental.   

 

Just because they lost at home in 2022........after a brutal year with, once again, no meaningless game and bye week to re-charge at the end..........doesn't mean that the regular seasons just don't matter.

 

In fact, if they had finished with the #1 seed last season they'd have had a bye week......not sustained injuries and been rested........and likely would have been playing the grass-green Jaguars in the divisional round instead of the bad matchup against Cinci.

 

We see teams play far below their standard at points in the playoffs and escape and then get their act together and win the SB.    Tampa in 2020 narrowly beating Washington in the wild card round and KC in the championship game versus Cinci this past season.  

 

Never having that #1 seed and that first round bye matter.    In 6 of their 9 losses the past two seasons they've failed to reach 20 points and a common theme has been the lack of playmakers around Allen on offense.

 

Trying to say it's not an issue because Gabe has had 3 very good playoff games out of the 7 he's played is by no means definitive proof that the Bills don't have a problem receiver 2.   It's just box score scouting.  

 

  

 

 

Edited by BADOLBILZ
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2023 at 2:16 PM, Zerovoltz said:

 

If you look at those seasons, Rodgers threw to Adams 169 times in 2020 and 149 times in 2021.  the next most targeted guys.  In those same 2 seasons, Tyreek Hill was targeted 135 and 159 times.  

 

When Mahomes lost Hill, he efficiently was able to distribute those lost targets to other players.  He actually had a career high comp% last season, without Hill.  as well as higher Y/A and YPG.  His QBR was up from 62 to 77, his QB Rating was up from 98.5 to 105.  NONE of Mahomes metrics got worse....they all got better after losing Tyreek Hill, who he threw to more than anyone on the team.  He threw for over 500 MORE yards, 4 MORE TD's  One fewer INT....

 

When Rodgers lost his leading WR (Adams)  ....all his metric got worse....

 

And so you might say that doesn't account for Kelce being gone....Rodger didn't have a Kelce.  We won't know for sure what Mahomes will do once Kelce declines/retires....but based on losing a top 5 WR and all those targets....Mahomes didn't have any trouble adjusting and distributing.  I'm confident that Mahomes will continue to play at a very high level.  I believe Allen is that same kind of player at this point.  If Diggs got hurt, holds out etc....Allen is going to deliver big plays, and get the ball into the right place at the right time most of the time.  

 

Excellent, so if Dawson Knox or Dalton Kincaid turn out to be the greatest Tight End of all time, yes maybe we'll consider dropping our star WR.

 

Until then, the Rodgers scenario proved that you kinda need at least one elite pass catcher on offense to succeed. The arrogance in saying Mahomes was just fine without Hill and pass catchers are overrated ....when he had the greatest Tight End of all time... is pretty wild.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted to throw this in the mix.  The first tweet is Mahomes conversion rate on 3rd and 5 or more.  ......but the kicker is the following tweet and stat where he would have still been 2nd in the NFL if you only count throws to any but Kelce.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I wanted to throw this in the mix.  The first tweet is Mahomes conversion rate on 3rd and 5 or more.  ......but the kicker is the following tweet and stat where he would have still been 2nd in the NFL if you only count throws to any but Kelce.  

 

 

Yeah, well, your qb sounds like Kermit the frog.

  • Haha (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I wanted to throw this in the mix.  The first tweet is Mahomes conversion rate on 3rd and 5 or more.  ......but the kicker is the following tweet and stat where he would have still been 2nd in the NFL if you only count throws to any but Kelce.  

 

 

What does this have to do with the Bills needing new receivers?  
 

Why don’t you post this on a Chiefs forum?  People might actually give a ****
 

Mahomes is amazing-  we know this. Congrats.  Maybe the entire message board should give him a standing ovation for being so great.  Maybe we should have a sub forum discussing the greatness of Pat Mahomes.  
 

no one here cares Z

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What does this have to do with the Bills needing new receivers?  
 

Why don’t you post this on a Chiefs forum?  People might actually give a ****
 

Mahomes is amazing-  we know this. Congrats.  Maybe the entire message board should give him a standing ovation for being so great.  Maybe we should have a sub forum discussing the greatness of Pat Mahomes.  
 

no one here cares Z

 

My point isn't an argument for Mahomes.....it's an argument that Allen has reached a point at which you don't need to suffer a high priced diva WR to have a high powered, productive offense.  I post this about Mahomes, not to boast, but to illustrate that KC has reached a point in Mahomes development where he also doesn't need elite divas and is free to deliver a ball where it should go, and not worry about making sure WR X gets his stats.  Some argue here that Mahomes has Kelce and so the arguement doens't apply....I just threw this up to point out that while Kelce is awesome, Mahomes picks and chooses where to put that ball without considering that Kelce or anyone else gets numbers.  

 

The entire point of this post from start to finish is that Allen and the Bills would be better off at this point, without the drama of a Diggs...and that Allen is able to lead a high powered offense with lower priced, "good" WR.....I use the term low self esteem jokingly, but guys who are good players not elite, not expensive and not thin skinned complainers.  

 

There was a time when it was a plus to add Diggs.  I believe he really did help the team and Allen develop...and if the drama and price tag weren't so high...Diggs would still be a great piece.  At this point...when you have a QB the caliber of Allen.  Diggs isn't worth the cost in money and he isn't worth having in your locker room.

 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2023 at 5:58 PM, Success said:

I don't have an issue w/ the premise.

 

Having top wideouts is enticing as a fan.  But I look at those Pats teams - the only time they really invested in WR was Moss, and that actually ended up not working out.

 

It's about the lines and protecting Allen. Give Allen time, and he can get the ball to anyone.

 

We need competent and consistent WRs  TEs and RBs to catch the ball

and the play calling that allows the opportunities

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

My point isn't an argument for Mahomes.....it's an argument that Allen has reached a point at which you don't need to suffer a high priced diva WR to have a high powered, productive offense.  I post this about Mahomes, not to boast, but to illustrate that KC has reached a point in Mahomes development where he also doesn't need elite divas and is free to deliver a ball where it should go, and not worry about making sure WR X gets his stats.  Some argue here that Mahomes has Kelce and so the arguement doens't apply....I just threw this up to point out that while Kelce is awesome, Mahomes picks and chooses where to put that ball without considering that Kelce or anyone else gets numbers.  

 

The entire point of this post from start to finish is that Allen and the Bills would be better off at this point, without the drama of a Diggs...and that Allen is able to lead a high powered offense with lower priced, "good" WR.....I use the term low self esteem jokingly, but guys who are good players not elite, not expensive and not thin skinned complainers.  

 

There was a time when it was a plus to add Diggs.  I believe he really did help the team and Allen develop...and if the drama and price tag weren't so high...Diggs would still be a great piece.  At this point...when you have a QB the caliber of Allen.  Diggs isn't worth the cost in money and he isn't worth having in your locker room.

 

 

Understood- apologies for the rant.  
 

i feel that you should have included this description in your original post

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...