BillStime Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, daz28 said: The only problem with your argument is that it's punitive in that it's to punish the behavior as well as compensate the victim. Sort of the same issue as there is with bail. Would a $5000 fine punish trump or curb the behavior? A $5000 fine would, however, cripple anyone living check to check. So the question is, what really is "excessive"? One could argue that because his wealth is excessive, the damages are not excessive to him. What is the basis for the judgment? Considering no one got hurt and no one involved is complaining? Why is $400+M enough punishment but $100M isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 minutes ago, Doc said: What is the basis for the judgment? Considering no one got hurt and no one involved is complaining? Why is $400+M enough punishment but $100M isn't? I don't have any idea what to go by. That was up to a judge, and will be up to an appeals judge now. My comments are basically that if a punishment isn't enough, then the wealthy are basically above the law. I already said that what excessive means is the question. I certainly don't have the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 minute ago, daz28 said: I don't have any idea what to go by. That was up to a judge, and will be up to an appeals judge now. My comments are basically that if a punishment isn't enough, then the wealthy are basically above the law. I already said that what excessive means is the question. I certainly don't have the answer. Neither did they. They just made up a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Neither did they. They just made up a number. I would assume that because a rich person pays the same parking ticket fine that a poor person pays would mean the appeals court will find it wildly excessive. My personal opinion is that the damages should be punitive in relation to the individual instead. Either way if he's as rich as he says he is it won't hurt him that much. If I went from having $5B to $4.5B I wouldn't be missing meals and having to fly coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 23 minutes ago, Doc said: Neither did they. They just made up a number. If it's all fabricated, any competent legal representation should be able to assist him with the appeal. $168 million from lower interest rates, which were based on Trump’s personal guarantee to repay loans based on his false statements of net worth. $126.8 million in profit from converting the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C. into a hotel, under a contract obtained through his use of false financial statements. $60 million in “windfall profit” from selling Ferry Point golf course in the Bronx, whose license agreement relied on his false financial statements, to Bally’s Corp. Trump expected to argue 'no victims' in appealing New York fraud case (usatoday.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 31 minutes ago, daz28 said: I would assume that because a rich person pays the same parking ticket fine that a poor person pays would mean the appeals court will find it wildly excessive. My personal opinion is that the damages should be punitive in relation to the individual instead. Either way if he's as rich as he says he is it won't hurt him that much. If I went from having $5B to $4.5B I wouldn't be missing meals and having to fly coach. What "damages"? Again, who was hurt? And making him have to come up with $400+M in 30 days was a real dick move and shows you their true nature. But hey, Trump's a jerk so it's all good, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 16 minutes ago, Doc said: What "damages"? Again, who was hurt? New York's anti-fraud civil law does not require victims, Doc. And what would happen to you if you repeatedly misrepresented your financial statements? 17 minutes ago, Doc said: And making him have to come up with $400+M in 30 days was a real dick move and shows you their true nature. But hey, Trump's a jerk so it's all good, right? Hey Doc - keep whining over this pathetic billionaire you pathetic simp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 13 minutes ago, Doc said: What "damages"? Again, who was hurt? And making him have to come up with $400+M in 30 days was a real dick move and shows you their true nature. But hey, Trump's a jerk so it's all good, right? It's just a legal term, AGAIN don't blame me for it. I believe 30 days is fairly standard. Yes, he's a jerk. Again, poor people often have to come up with money they don't have. He supposedly has $5B. If he can't get a bond, that tells you they either feel he's not trustworthy or he doesn't really have the assets, which would be rich seeing that's why he's here in the first place. BT showed you how the number maybe isn't actually that far-fetched, harmed party or not. if he gained an unfair advantage, he should pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 4 minutes ago, daz28 said: It's just a legal term, AGAIN don't blame me for it. I believe 30 days is fairly standard. Yes, he's a jerk. Again, poor people often have to come up with money they don't have. He supposedly has $5B. If he can't get a bond, that tells you they either feel he's not trustworthy or he doesn't really have the assets, which would be rich seeing that's why he's here in the first place. BT showed you how the number maybe isn't actually that far-fetched, harmed party or not. if he gained an unfair advantage, he should pay for it. There needs to be a harmed party. Otherwise it's partisan chicanery with a crooked judge and DA who are no better than Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 40 minutes ago, Doc said: There needs to be a harmed party. Otherwise it's partisan chicanery with a crooked judge and DA who are no better than Trump. idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Two days to go ! Meanwhile: How would this tactic play out? Is it a trick? Link. https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/ I've been thinking about this. Trump could let the March 25th deadline arrive and force James to act. Let her seize Trump Tower. How will that look? How can she manage the place? What will people think? Is he calling her bluff? The 91 felony indictments helped Trump in the polls. His popularity could skyrocket if James confiscates his tower. The political value might exceed the half a billion dollars in wealth it will cost. In any case, it would be chaotic. One "insider" said: Click for more » https://althouse.blogspot.com/2024/03/how-would-this-tactic-play-out-is-it.html . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 On 3/18/2024 at 5:57 PM, daz28 said: I don't have any idea what to go by. That was up to a judge, and will be up to an appeals judge now. My comments are basically that if a punishment isn't enough, then the wealthy are basically above the law. I already said that what excessive means is the question. I certainly don't have the answer. The wealthy are often above the law. Our highest ranking politicians are often above the law. You just have to be the wrong type of wealthy, or the oppo politician at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 19 minutes ago, B-Man said: Two days to go ! Meanwhile: How would this tactic play out? Is it a trick? Link. https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/ I've been thinking about this. Trump could let the March 25th deadline arrive and force James to act. Let her seize Trump Tower. How will that look? How can she manage the place? What will people think? Is he calling her bluff? The 91 felony indictments helped Trump in the polls. His popularity could skyrocket if James confiscates his tower. The political value might exceed the half a billion dollars in wealth it will cost. In any case, it would be chaotic. One "insider" said: Click for more » https://althouse.blogspot.com/2024/03/how-would-this-tactic-play-out-is-it.html I think he should do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 On 3/18/2024 at 7:07 PM, daz28 said: It's just a legal term, AGAIN don't blame me for it. I believe 30 days is fairly standard. Yes, he's a jerk. Again, poor people often have to come up with money they don't have. He supposedly has $5B. If he can't get a bond, that tells you they either feel he's not trustworthy or he doesn't really have the assets, which would be rich seeing that's why he's here in the first place. BT showed you how the number maybe isn't actually that far-fetched, harmed party or not. if he gained an unfair advantage, he should pay for it. With respect to a bond, it may well be that the fear of retaliation by NYS (or the Feds) drives the decision. There are a number of articles, and a number of commentators offering the opinion that what transpired was egregious. Corporations and wealthy people are not dumb, they know that what passes for justice is often malleable, and that Trump is public enemy number one. Who wants that heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 One day to go. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 21 minutes ago, B-Man said: One day to go. I’ve been hearing he has until Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 1 minute ago, Doc said: I’ve been hearing he has until Monday. That's not what i was referring to Doc. (check the o.p.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) On 3/18/2024 at 5:46 PM, Doc said: What is the basis for the judgment? Considering no one got hurt and no one involved is complaining? Why is $400+M enough punishment but $100M isn't? The judge added it all up and that’s what the amount is. They didn’t just make up a number. It’s listed in the case paperwork. There’s 400 million in fraud. He also owes 200 million on Trump tower so they will have to take a bunch of his properties. He took loans out on all of them. I don’t think the banks should get anything. They knew he was a fraud and still gave him money. They should lose their ass for that decision. Edited March 21 by Governor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 If every Trumper gave him $6.25 he could pay it off so check your inboxes for that email that dropped this morning and help the guy out. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 4 hours ago, Governor said: The judge added it all up and that’s what the amount is. They didn’t just make up a number. It’s listed in the case paperwork. There’s 400 million in fraud. He also owes 200 million on Trump tower so they will have to take a bunch of his properties. He took loans out on all of them. I don’t think the banks should get anything. They knew he was a fraud and still gave him money. They should lose their ass for that decision. This makes no sense. The transactions were between Trump and banks. Trump gave them property values and they gladly accepted the numbers he provided. They never bothered to check his numbers and got paid, so therefore no one got hurt. And consequently the number the judge provide is wholly invented. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 https://www.yahoo.com/news/dumbest-thing-couldve-done-experts-143415803.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Trump is an idiot of epic proportions. What does that tell you about his supporters? The worst part is he is dangerous for the country as a president. Don’t take my word for it, listen to the people that were in his cabinet! No one supports him. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 3/18/2024 at 7:16 PM, Doc said: There needs to be a harmed party. Otherwise it's partisan chicanery with a crooked judge and DA who are no better than Trump. What a whiner! The law says he can’t do that. This is a country of laws right? or is it ok for the Orange Jesus to commit crimes but no one else can? Where is all your crying for all the other white collar crimes that “don’t hurt anybody”? let me ask you and others this? would you do business with trump? I wouldn’t. That pos would screw his own mother to make a buck and he would screw his own daughter to get off! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 The banking institutions are telling all of us what they think of Don the con. There is a reason why they won’t lend him money. His former closest coworkers, his cabinet members and VP are telling us what they think of him when they refuse to endorse him. No one would hire a guy like this anywhere for any job. He treats people like crap. If you knew a guy like this in your life, you would think he is an ass. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 10 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: https://www.yahoo.com/news/dumbest-thing-couldve-done-experts-143415803.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall Yes because a stay had a snowball's chance in Miami of happening, right? Right? But looks like he had the money anyway. And after Truth Social goes public, he'll certainly have enough if they seize anything. 9 hours ago, 4th&long said: What a whiner! The law says he can’t do that. This is a country of laws right? or is it ok for the Orange Jesus to commit crimes but no one else can? Where is all your crying for all the other white collar crimes that “don’t hurt anybody”? let me ask you and others this? would you do business with trump? I wouldn’t. That pos would screw his own mother to make a buck and he would screw his own daughter to get off! What law? This is a civil fraud case, not criminal. There was no crime because no one was harmed except the feelings of TDSers. And this will fail on appeal. And to answer your question, no, I would not do business with him. But that has nothing to do with anything. No one was forced to do business with him or to accept the appraisals for his property. That they did tells me they wanted to do business with him and were fine with what he told them. Again there was aggrieved party. The question is now will investors do business with NYC if they see they can screwed based on their politics? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 57 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes because a stay had a snowball's chance in Miami of happening, right? Right? But looks like he had the money anyway. And after Truth Social goes public, he'll certainly have enough if they seize anything. What law? This is a civil fraud case, not criminal. There was no crime because no one was harmed except the feelings of TDSers. And this will fail on appeal. And to answer your question, no, I would not do business with him. But that has nothing to do with anything. No one was forced to do business with him or to accept the appraisals for his property. That they did tells me they wanted to do business with him and were fine with what he told them. Again there was aggrieved party. The question is now will investors do business with NYC if they see they can screwed based on their politics? Either trump or his lawyers lied to the court about how much cash he has.. but that's ok with you cuz it's trump right? right? the crime is lying to banks to get a loan they wouldn't otherwise have given. If you did that for a mortgage and were caught, you would be prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 10 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Either trump or his lawyers lied to the court about how much cash he has.. but that's ok with you cuz it's trump right? right? the crime is lying to banks to get a loan they wouldn't otherwise have given. If you did that for a mortgage and were caught, you would be prosecuted. Look at what Mark Cuban, no Trump fan, said about even billionaires having hundreds of millions in cash ready to be handed over: they don't and they need to come up with it. Expecting almost $500M in 30 days is ridiculous. Meaning he managed to come up with it. So there was no lie. And again, a stay wasn't going to happen because this is vindictive. And no, lying to a bank about what your properties are worth to get a loan isn't illegal. And good luck lying to your bank about what your properties are worth because they don't take your word at face value and do their own appraisals. They didn't with Trump because they didn't care. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Look at what Mark Cuban, no Trump fan, said about even billionaires having hundreds of millions in cash ready to be handed over: they don't and they need to come up with it. Expecting almost $500M in 30 days is ridiculous. Meaning he managed to come up with it. So there was no lie. And again, a stay wasn't going to happen because this is vindictive. And no, lying to a bank about what your properties are worth to get a loan isn't illegal. And good luck lying to your bank about what your properties are worth because they don't take your word at face value and do their own appraisals. They didn't with Trump because they didn't care. he was found guilty of fraud. fraud is illegal. 2 days ago, trump couldn't secure a bond for half a billion. now he has it in cash? you're such a trump ass licker. you're as disgusting as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: he was found guilty of fraud. fraud is illegal. 2 days ago, trump couldn't secure a bond for half a billion. now he has it in cash? you're such a trump ass licker. you're as disgusting as he is. It's called a civil case. Look up the difference between that and a criminal case. Then take some Midol and lie down. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 7 hours ago, Doc said: Yes because a stay had a snowball's chance in Miami of happening, right? Right? But looks like he had the money anyway. And after Truth Social goes public, he'll certainly have enough if they seize anything. What law? This is a civil fraud case, not criminal. There was no crime because no one was harmed except the feelings of TDSers. And this will fail on appeal. And to answer your question, no, I would not do business with him. But that has nothing to do with anything. No one was forced to do business with him or to accept the appraisals for his property. That they did tells me they wanted to do business with him and were fine with what he told them. Again there was aggrieved party. The question is now will investors do business with NYC if they see they can screwed based on their politics? You couldn’t do it. I couldn’t do it, he can’t do it. That is my problem with it. I was in business for myself till my back went. When the govt wants their money the come take it. Doesn’t matter if you have 4 young kids and a stay at home wife. I went to work with a herniated disk! ***** trump. He gets no sympathy from me. If it wasn’t wrong she could not have taken him to court and got a judgment against his company! Get real! 1 hour ago, Doc said: It's called a civil case. Look up the difference between that and a criminal case. Then take some Midol and lie down. Who cares what it’s called? I thought all these charges were helping him? What is the problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 8 hours ago, Doc said: And after Truth Social goes public, he'll certainly have enough if they seize anything. DWAC dropped 14% Friday. I'm sure the investors will be thrilled that the stock will be his slush fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 minute ago, daz28 said: DWAC dropped 14% Friday. I'm sure the investors will be thrilled that the stock will be his slush fund. Looks like those that weren't already got out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 9 minutes ago, Doc said: Looks like those that weren't already got out. Possibly. Looks like the after-hours was buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Trump getting special treatment: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Trump getting special treatment: yes, yes he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 TAX DAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Trump getting special treatment: Yes "special" treatment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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