2023 NFL Combine Results and News

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Mike Schopp and Sal Capaccio are now pushing for a Tight End after Darnell Washington's combine performance. 

 

But I'm not sure how that would work. 

 

This offense has not historically revolved around Tight End usage, Allen has not thrown to the Tight End often. 

 

So now we take a Tight End at 27 over a slot WR, over an Offensive Lineman, he has to be on the field. 

 

With an investment already paid to Dawson Knox, now we'd have two large investments into Tight End, similar to running back, a position that the Bills have not used offensively in the Daboll/Dorsey offense. 

 

It's just not as clean of a fit. 

 

Awhile back I was pushing for Darnell Washington, though I was hoping to grab him in the second round. I think he will be an exceptional blocker and help solidify the oline. He would fill the role of TE#2. At 27, that is a pretty rich price. Kincaid and Mayer are more dangerous offensive weapons at the position who are plausibly available there as well. The problem is the value of the olinemen and wr might not be there at 27. This is probably a year to trade down and pick up another day two pick, but you can't count on a reasonable deal, so you better have a plan to make the pick. I personally hope it doesn't default to defense, though there's a decent chance that's where the value is. I can't afford to throw a brick at the telly, so I will probably go outside and yell at the clouds.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Awhile back I was pushing for Darnell Washington, though I was hoping to grab him in the second round. I think he will be an exceptional blocker and help solidify the oline. He would fill the role of TE#2. At 27, that is a pretty rich price. Kincaid and Mayer are more dangerous offensive weapons at the position who are plausibly available there as well. The problem is the value of the olinemen and wr might not be there at 27. This is probably a year to trade down and pick up another day two pick, but you can't count on a reasonable deal, so you better have a plan to make the pick. I personally hope it doesn't default to defense, though there's a decent chance that's where the value is. I can't afford to throw a brick at the telly, so I will probably go outside and yell at the clouds.

I don't see how Darnell Washington helps the Bills more than Zay Flowers if he is there. 

 

The Bills need someone to take hold of the slot position. 

 

A backup TE that is on the field 30% - 40% of snaps and requires an offensive philosophy change is not a great value. 

 

We all saw the sled drill where Washington picked that up like a folding chair, and Mayer struggled to move it like a couch in the living room. 

[gonzo1105]

8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don't see how Darnell Washington helps the Bills more than Zay Flowers if he is there. 

 

The Bills need someone to take hold of the slot position. 

 

A backup TE that is on the field 30% - 40% of snaps and requires an offensive philosophy change is not a great value. 

 

We all saw the sled drill where Washington picked that up like a folding chair, and Mayer struggled to move it like a couch in the living room. 

 

The Bills wanted to change their philosophy last year which is why they signed OJ Howard then realized he was awful and went away from that. Howard was known as a good blocker and they were trying to unlock him in the passing game. I think they realized he didn't have the juice to be that guy. They want to be a 12 personnel team. Its in Dorseys past DNA, it fits the system Dorsey has run, that Daboll has run in the past with the Patriots, and the University of Miami had stud TE's. 

 

The problem with needing two TE's is you need both who can block and be able to stretch the seams. Most of the TE's in this class either fit one or the other. Kincaid and Musgrave are pure pass catchers, Washington is a great blocker but he is not a dynamic pass catcher despite his athletic numbers, Mayer, after his testing might not be either. I keep coming back to Tucker Kraft as that guy. Probably have to take him in round 2. He can block, he can stretch the field, he can work underneath, had really solid combine numbers. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

The Bills wanted to change their philosophy last year which is why they signed OJ Howard then realized he was awful and went away from that. Howard was known as a good blocker and they were trying to unlock him in the passing game. I think they realized he didn't have the juice to be that guy. They want to be a 12 personnel team. Its in Dorseys past DNA, it fits the system Dorsey has run, that Daboll has run in the past with the Patriots, and the University of Miami had stud TE's. 

 

The problem with needing two TE's is you need both who can block and be able to stretch the seams. Most of the TE's in this class either fit one or the other. Kincaid and Musgrave are pure pass catchers, Washington is a great blocker but he is not a dynamic pass catcher despite his athletic numbers, Mayer, after his testing might not be either. I keep coming back to Tucker Kraft as that guy. Probably have to take him in round 2. He can block, he can stretch the field, he can work underneath, had really solid combine numbers. 

I'll believe that when I see it. 

 

I've heard Capaccio make that argument too that the Bills really tried to bring in other Tight Ends with Kroft and Howard. 

 

Both of those guys were long-shot veterans. 

 

Howard was a bust, and had a major mid-career injury. 

 

Kroft is a JAG.

 

Those aren't serious attempts to get better, and Kroft they miscalculated value on. 

[gonzo1105]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I'll believe that when I see it. 

 

I've heard Capaccio make that argument too that the Bills really tried to bring in other Tight Ends with Kroft and Howard. 

 

Both of those guys were long-shot veterans. 

 

Howard was a bust, and had a major mid-career injury. 

 

Kroft is a JAG.

 

Those aren't serious attempts to get better, and Kroft they miscalculated value on. 

 

Tucker Kraft, not Tyler Kroft, he's a TE from South Dakota State. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

Tucker Kraft, not Tyler Kroft, he's a TE from South Dakota State. 

No I understand. 

 

I'm saying when people say the Bills have shown you they want a better Tight End #2 because they signed OJ Howard and Tyler Kroft, I don't see that as a honest attempt to do anything. 

 

That's garbage bin shopping. 

 

You want Kraft, that's fine, provided a WR comes first. 

 

I just don't see how a #2 TE gets on the field that much on this team, let alone gets enough passes to warrant high selection. 

 

Why did we pay Knox? 

 

Find another Lee Smith if the #2 just has to block well. 

 

 

[Maine-iac]

Washington and that kid from Princeton at WR.  He could push for time outside with Davis, back up Diggs, and let Shakir run inside. 

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No I understand. 

 

I'm saying when people say the Bills have shown you they want a better Tight End #2 because they signed OJ Howard and Tyler Kroft, I don't see that as a honest attempt to do anything. 

 

That's garbage bin shopping. 

 

You want Kraft, that's fine, provided a WR comes first. 

 

I just don't see how a #2 TE gets on the field that much on this team, let alone gets enough passes to warrant high selection. 

 

Why did we pay Knox? 

 

Find another Lee Smith if the #2 just has to block well. 

 

 

Maybe they play more 12 with a 2nd TE they want on the field and let Knox actually play pass catcher?  I wouldn't bet on it but just throwing it out there.

[Motorin']

A few guys popped up on the radar for me:

 

Fastest wr was Trey Palmer at 6' 192lbs running 4.33, he has better size than and speed than Flowers, Hyatt, Downs ect. 

 

That's Jon Brown speed in Stefon Diggs frame... watching his highlights he's a big time vertical threat... 

 

And could Deneric Prince be this year's Isaiah Pacheco? 

 

6' 216lbs running 4.4 is a load to try to take down.

 

I'm all for picking up and extra pick or two, and spending our very last one on a RB. 

 

 

[CapeBreton]

I'm pretty intrigued by Jonathan Mingo, amazing combine and the tape looks very good. No idea where he's projected right now though. 

 

 

[section122]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Mike Schopp and Sal Capaccio are now pushing for a Tight End after Darnell Washington's combine performance. 

 

But I'm not sure how that would work. 

 

This offense has not historically revolved around Tight End usage, Allen has not thrown to the Tight End often. 

 

So now we take a Tight End at 27 over a slot WR, over an Offensive Lineman, he has to be on the field. 

 

With an investment already paid to Dawson Knox, now we'd have two large investments into Tight End, similar to running back, a position that the Bills have not used offensively in the Daboll/Dorsey offense. 

 

It's just not as clean of a fit. 

 

 

The argument for Washington is that he helps the run game and can also help the pass game by freeing up Knox to run routes.  He then is also a tremendous red zone threat.  It makes the offense less predictable while offering protection for Josh and opening running lanes.  The Bills (I think) ran a lot of tackle eligible plays.  Washington removes the need to do so.  

 

I won't disagree that 27 is likely too rich for a blocking te.  Looking at the trade chart, Seattle would be a great team to trade down with.  They could give 37 and 83 for 27.  Then the Bills would have 2 2nds and 2 3rds.  Washington is a lot more palatable at 37 and the Bills would have an extra top 100 pick to bolster the team.

 

Best case scenario is somehow one of the top 4 qbs (would have to be Levis) is still sitting there and someone wants that 5th year option.  Unfortunately I think the floor for the top 4 qbs is Tampa Bay at 19.

[Fleezoid]

On 3/6/2023 at 2:14 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

There will be a whole lot of teams with multiple late round pick and comp picks who will swing the bat on him before the 7th.

 

What's with the bat? He's already got an injured knee. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

52 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

The argument for Washington is that he helps the run game and can also help the pass game by freeing up Knox to run routes.  He then is also a tremendous red zone threat.  It makes the offense less predictable while offering protection for Josh and opening running lanes.  The Bills (I think) ran a lot of tackle eligible plays.  Washington removes the need to do so.  

 

I won't disagree that 27 is likely too rich for a blocking te.  Looking at the trade chart, Seattle would be a great team to trade down with.  They could give 37 and 83 for 27.  Then the Bills would have 2 2nds and 2 3rds.  Washington is a lot more palatable at 37 and the Bills would have an extra top 100 pick to bolster the team.

 

Best case scenario is somehow one of the top 4 qbs (would have to be Levis) is still sitting there and someone wants that 5th year option.  Unfortunately I think the floor for the top 4 qbs is Tampa Bay at 19.

Absolutely that trade would have to be considered, taking into account what WRs are left at #27. 

 

If Hyatt or Flowers are still on the board, I'd be interested in selecting either because I still view WR as the easiest plug into our offense over a TE or RB. 

 

In the same vein, what offensive lineman are still left on the board there. 

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

I'm pretty intrigued by Jonathan Mingo, amazing combine and the tape looks very good. No idea where he's projected right now though. 

 

 

I know Greg Cosell likes him. 

[KingBoots8]

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

I'm pretty intrigued by Jonathan Mingo, amazing combine and the tape looks very good. No idea where he's projected right now though. 

 

 

“Why, Johnny Mingo… you look like someone just walked over your grave.”

 

I’m sorry, I’m dumb. I like Mingo too - I had him as a mid-3rd rounder - early 4th but I think he’s going late 2nd - early 3rd after the combine.

[Magox]

This guy could be available in the 4th or 5th round and looks like a potential TE sleeper.  Off-the-charts athleticism and size and had a really productive junior year.

 

Looks like he could turn out to be a good blocker and has some wiggle to his route running.

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

7 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No I understand. 

 

I'm saying when people say the Bills have shown you they want a better Tight End #2 because they signed OJ Howard and Tyler Kroft, I don't see that as a honest attempt to do anything. 

 

That's garbage bin shopping. 

 

You want Kraft, that's fine, provided a WR comes first. 

 

I just don't see how a #2 TE gets on the field that much on this team, let alone gets enough passes to warrant high selection. 

 

Why did we pay Knox? 

 

Find another Lee Smith if the #2 just has to block well. 

 

 

The way a #2 TE gets on the field is to move away from a 3WR set because they don’t have 3 good WRs.

[gonzo1105]

54 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

The way a #2 TE gets on the field is to move away from a 3WR set because they don’t have 3 good WRs.

Bingo. The Bills will be using Knox and a high pick more than 30% of the time if they go that route. Davis is also a good blocking WR and is excellent on play action passes(when he catches the ball) 

Edited March 8, 2023 by gonzo1105

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, Motorin' said:

A few guys popped up on the radar for me:

 

Fastest wr was Trey Palmer at 6' 192lbs running 4.33, he has better size than and speed than Flowers, Hyatt, Downs ect. 

 

That's Jon Brown speed in Stefon Diggs frame... watching his highlights he's a big time vertical threat... 

 

And could Deneric Prince be this year's Isaiah Pacheco? 

 

6' 216lbs running 4.4 is a load to try to take down.

 

I'm all for picking up and extra pick or two, and spending our very last one on a RB. 

 

 

Shopping just for fast 40 times is not the best way to scout (imho).  Palmer has some good traits, but I don’t think he is coming into the league and playing a lot on offense this season.

 

The RB. might have a chance to play some in the league as it is an easier position to make an impact.

[Motorin']

29 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Shopping just for fast 40 times is not the best way to scout (imho).  Palmer has some good traits, but I don’t think he is coming into the league and playing a lot on offense this season.

 

The RB. might have a chance to play some in the league as it is an easier position to make an impact.

 

It's always a crap shoot. But he's faster and has 20 pounds on late 1st/ 2nd round guys like Flowers and Hyatt. 

 

He also had better college production than Diggs had. 

[OldTimer1960]

27 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

It's always a crap shoot. But he's faster and has 20 pounds on late 1st/ 2nd round guys like Flowers and Hyatt. 

 

He also had better college production than Diggs had. 

I’m not saying that Tre Palmer might not be pretty good, but Flowers has much more proven ability to shake defenders with route running.  Hyatt has shown good hands on the few routes he was asked to run. 
 

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’m not saying that Tre Palmer might not be pretty good, but Flowers has much more proven ability to shake defenders with route running.  Hyatt has shown good hands on the few routes he was asked to run. 
 

 

Well we run four verts on nearly every play, and that seems to be Palmer's strength