GQP: A 30 PERCENT NATIONAL SALES TAX

[Gene Frenkle]

 

And yes, I know exactly who I'm talking about and I don't trust ANY of them, especially when it comes to wealth distribution. Our lobbying laws are an abomination and enable the rich to get richer as they siphon off dollars from the rest of us. Lobbying enables them to make a ROI like nothing the world has ever seen. It's a national disgrace. 

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

Are you a billionaire who hangs out on a BB political mb every day? There are the wealthy and the poor. If you don't know which you are, it is the latter.

So Gene, you trust the system as it is NOW? Including the thousands of pages of tax code? As I’ve said, I’m not actually in favor of a national sales tax. It unevenly taxes those who spend almost of their monthly income on purchases. But….do you ever question your local sales tax? Nope. You just pay it. Everyone does. Why? Because there are little to no loopholes. Put another way; you’re swimming in water and don’t even realize you’re wet. 😉

[T master]

22 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

You lost me at MORALLY

 

You were lost morally long before reading my reply !

 

Oh and you laugh at Tenn. being a go to state both for those leaving other states & businesses moving here do some research num nuts & you'll see Tenn. is in a much better place fiscally than any states that you think are doing better or have your support like those i mentioned & after words let me know your findings .

 

I remember a day standing at a check out in Walmart 2 people had just moved from Cali & had said - "We had to get out of Cali the gov't there is so screwed up & we can no longer afford to live there due to the high taxes & gas prices we looked & Tenn. was one of the best states to move to" .

 

Which now because of so many people wanting to move here the prices of real-estate & rent is out rageous & people are now looking to move out side of the Nashville area but i believe that is in part a lot to do with the greed of developers charging prices well above what properties a really worth .

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, T master said:

 

You were lost morally long before reading my reply !

 

Oh and you laugh at Tenn. being a go to state both for those leaving other states & businesses moving here do some research num nuts & you'll see Tenn. is in a much better place fiscally than any states that you think are doing better or have your support like those i mentioned & after words let me know your findings .

 

I remember a day standing at a check out in Walmart 2 people had just moved from Cali & had said - "We had to get out of Cali the gov't there is so screwed up & we can no longer afford to live there due to the high taxes & gas prices we looked & Tenn. was one of the best states to move to" .

 

Which now because of so many people wanting to move here the prices of real-estate & rent is out rageous & people are now looking to move out side of the Nashville area but i believe that is in part a lot to do with the greed of developers charging prices well above what properties a really worth .

 

Yeah, I have family that moved to Tennessee last month. They checked out the local schools and saw how nuts they are about banning books and decided to home school their children.

 

Hugging Sea Horse Book Is Too Racy For Schools

 

Priorities.

 

 

[Gene Frenkle]

51 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So Gene, you trust the system as it is NOW? Including the thousands of pages of tax code? As I’ve said, I’m not actually in favor of a national sales tax. It unevenly taxes those who spend almost of their monthly income on purchases. But….do you ever question your local sales tax? Nope. You just pay it. Everyone does. Why? Because there are little to no loopholes. Put another way; you’re swimming in water and don’t even realize you’re wet. 😉

 

Aboso-effing-loutely NOT. Do you think that changes to the system, as proposed by billionaires and big money lobbying interests, are likely proposed to help the poor/middle class or to further enrich the wealthy? I'll hang up and listen.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

Aboso-effing-loutely NOT. Do you think that changes to the system, as proposed by billionaires and big money lobbying interests, are likely proposed to help the poor/middle class or to further enrich the wealthy? I'll hang up and listen.

So here’s the thing, if you’ll actually listen. All EVERYONE really cares about is their take home pay. This is true whether you are rich, poor, or somewhere in the middle. If we evolve to a national sales tax, which I don’t support, everyone’s take home pay would evolve to compensate for the significant change in our system. Would it be done without a ton of jabbering…nope. But it would evolve.  Once again, you pay a local sales tax every single day and you don’t give it a moments thought. You just pay it. Why? Because over time it’s become part of the built-in American taxation system. 
 

And for what it’s worth, the reason we have the system we have now is NOT to benefit the rich! It’s to allow the political class to hold power over the electorate by using the tax rates as campaign fodder.

Edited February 22, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[T master]

29 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Yeah, I have family that moved to Tennessee last month. They checked out the local schools and saw how nuts they are about banning books and decided to home school their children.

 

Hugging Sea Horse Book Is Too Racy For Schools

 

Priorities.

 

 

 

As i said your morality is short sighted to say the least !! Seeing as you or your family are so short sighted & can not see the implications of this or what types of questions innocent children could ask because of this type of book i'll just leave it right here because neither you or your family have a clue !! 

 

It's apparent your boundaries are much different from those with higher moral standards for the children they raise & then we wonder why society has went straight to hell in a hand basket .

 

This is a starting point of such things & goes right along with those that want no gender assignments at birth & think it's okay for young kids to decide before they are of a age that they can make a responsible adult like & moral decision that can totally change their future .

 

This which you will never see or understand is the beginning of indoctrination of young children minds rather than letting them just be children & play with blocks or ride tricycles .

 

So please don't move to Tenn. stay in you liberal state & state of mind where you are at because we here in Tenn. don't need you to come here & change the direction of this state to be the same as your interpretation of what is good . 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, T master said:

 

As i said your morality is short sighted to say the least !! Seeing as you or your family are so short sighted & can not see the implications of this or what types of questions innocent children could ask because of this type of book i'll just leave it right here because neither you or your family have a clue !! 

 

It's apparent your boundaries are much different from those with higher moral standards for the children they raise & then we wonder why society has went straight to hell in a hand basket .

 

This is a starting point of such things & goes right along with those that want no gender assignments at birth & think it's okay for young kids to decide before they are of a age that they can make a responsible adult like & moral decision that can totally change their future .

 

This which you will never see or understand is the beginning of indoctrination of young children minds rather than letting them just be children & play with blocks or ride tricycles .

 

So please don't move to Tenn. stay in you liberal state & state of mind where you are at because we here in Tenn. don't need you to come here & change the direction of this state to be the same as your interpretation of what is good . 

What’s really funny is that according to BillStime, his family members left the school because of a book that was NOT in the library. Couldn’t they have just gotten that book for their children on their own? Now they have to buy them ALL the books, even the ones that ARE in the school library. Oh well. 

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, T master said:

 

As i said your morality is short sighted to say the least !! Seeing as you or your family are so short sighted & can not see the implications of this or what types of questions innocent children could ask because of this type of book i'll just leave it right here because neither you or your family have a clue !! 

 

It's apparent your boundaries are much different from those with higher moral standards for the children they raise & then we wonder why society has went straight to hell in a hand basket .

 

This is a starting point of such things & goes right along with those that want no gender assignments at birth & think it's okay for young kids to decide before they are of a age that they can make a responsible adult like & moral decision that can totally change their future .

 

This which you will never see or understand is the beginning of indoctrination of young children minds rather than letting them just be children & play with blocks or ride tricycles .

 

So please don't move to Tenn. stay in you liberal state & state of mind where you are at because we here in Tenn. don't need you to come here & change the direction of this state to be the same as your interpretation of what is good . 

 

Were you educated in Tennessee?

 

[Gene Frenkle]

21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So here’s the thing, if you’ll actually listen. All EVERYONE really cares about is their take home pay. This is true whether you are rich, poor, or somewhere in the middle. If we evolve to a national sales tax, which I don’t support, everyone’s take home pay would evolve to compensate for the significant change in our system. Would it be done without a ton of jabbering…nope. But it would evolve.  Once again, you pay a local sales tax every single day and you don’t give it a moments thought. You just pay it. Why? Because over time it’s become part of the built-in American taxation system. 
 

And for what it’s worth, the reason we have the system we have now is NOT to benefit the rich! It’s to allow the political class to hold power over the electorate by using the tax rates as campaign fodder.

 

Just like everyone's pay will eventually catch up to the inflation caused by the massive amount of dollars printed since 2020. In the meantime, suffering. The people most affected by these insane policies are not the people who implemented them. The people who implemented them are profiting now. It sounds like you're saying "Hey, it'll all work out. Trust the process. Trust the people in charge." Sorry, I don't. At all.

 

I agree with your second point.

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, T master said:

 

As i said your morality is short sighted to say the least !! Seeing as you or your family are so short sighted & can not see the implications of this or what types of questions innocent children could ask because of this type of book i'll just leave it right here because neither you or your family have a clue !! 

 

It's apparent your boundaries are much different from those with higher moral standards for the children they raise & then we wonder why society has went straight to hell in a hand basket .

 

This is a starting point of such things & goes right along with those that want no gender assignments at birth & think it's okay for young kids to decide before they are of a age that they can make a responsible adult like & moral decision that can totally change their future .

 

This which you will never see or understand is the beginning of indoctrination of young children minds rather than letting them just be children & play with blocks or ride tricycles .

 

So please don't move to Tenn. stay in you liberal state & state of mind where you are at because we here in Tenn. don't need you to come here & change the direction of this state to be the same as your interpretation of what is good . 

When you get right down to it the debate isn't so much about what books get approved or banned.  It comes down to who gets to decide which is which.  Until recently school boards and educators such as teachers had free reign to decide.  And then parents got involved, raised their concerns and objections, organized and then began to get some say which resulted in the transfer of control and power to make those choices of the hands of schools and districts.  What the people supporting the schools and districts, and in most cases they're liberal educators or their supporters, are really pissing and moaning about isn't in opposition to some form of censorship.  They're mad because power has been taken away from them.  

[Gene Frenkle]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

When you get right down to it the debate isn't so much about what books get approved or banned.  It comes down to who gets to decide which is which.  Until recently school boards and educators such as teachers had free reign to decide.  And then parents got involved, raised their concerns and objections, organized and then began to get some say which resulted in the transfer of control and power to make those choices of the hands of schools and districts.  What the people supporting the schools and districts, and in most cases they're liberal educators or their supporters, are really pissing and moaning about isn't in opposition to some form of censorship.  They're mad because power has been taken away from them.  

 

🤡

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

Just like everyone's pay will eventually catch up to the inflation caused by the massive amount of dollars printed since 2020. In the meantime, suffering. The people most affected by these insane policies are not the people who implemented them. The people who implemented them are profiting now. It sounds like you're saying "Hey, it'll all work out. Trust the process. Trust the people in charge." Sorry, I don't. At all.

 

I agree with your second point.

As I keep saying, I’m not in favor of this idea, but to think that everything else in our system will just the same is ridiculous. It obviously won’t. For starters, the entire tax code would evaporate, and with it, all the exemptions (loopholes) deductions, etc. So would all the pitting of one group against another. Think about it…..Have you ever heard ANYONE speak out against their ‘fair share’ when they buy a power tool at Home Depot? I never have. You just pay it, whether you’re rich or poor. 

[Gene Frenkle]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

As I keep saying, I’m not in favor of this idea, but to think that everything else in our system will just the same is ridiculous. It obviously won’t. For starters, the entire tax code would evaporate, and with it, all the exemptions (loopholes) deductions, etc. So would all the pitting of one group against another. Think about it…..Have you ever heard ANYONE speak out against their ‘fair share’ when they buy a power tool at Home Depot? I never have. You just pay it, whether you’re rich or poor. 

 

If you're not in favor of it, why defend it?

 

Do you believe that any radically-different tax system implemented by our paid-for leaders will be fairer? I certainly don't. It's funny to me reading this when the Libs are usually the ones painted as trusting idealists.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

If you're not in favor of it, why defend it?

 

Do you believe that any radically-different tax system implemented by our paid-for leaders will be fairer? I certainly don't. It's funny to me reading this when the Libs are usually the ones painted as trusting idealists.

I’m not defending it. I’m explaining it. 

[Gene Frenkle]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not defending it. I’m explaining it. 

 

I don't need an explanation. I understand how they will spin it to make it seem fair and palatable for the masses. We won't know how we're getting screwed until long after the fact. Like I said, I don't trust any of them, simple as that.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said:

Inflation is raging. The Fed has continued to print dollars at an alarming rate. Salaries have not caught up to inflated prices.

 

 

So they want us to pay 30% on inflated prices instead of being taxed on our incomes, which are relatively deflated as more dollars are printed. As per usual, the 99% get screwed while the 1% presumably find ways around paying the new 30% sales tax? Call me a cynic,, but I feel like the average American is yet again taking it up the arse here. Thanks, old rich white guys!

 

What am I missing here?

other than missing that rich people buy a lot of stuff? A lot more stuff than poor people.

 

it is funny how viscerally opposed the lazy leaching, net consuming Americans are to such a concept. 
 

What? Instead of disincentivizing production and earning with taxation, penalize the people shoving Big Macs into their gullet over of making their own food??? 
 

deter buying a bunch of junk that ends up in a landfill?? 
 

make it more costly to own 50 pairs of shoes? 
 

that’s not ‘merikuh… 

oh the horror. The lazy and degenerate net takers have no issue with productivity being taxed… but don’t take muh stuff! 
 

I’m interested in the idea of a consumption tax structure, instead of supporting a bunch of deadbeats with my income, responsible spending habits and decisions would actually be rewarded with less taxation… Im in

 

[BillStime]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

other than missing that rich people buy a lot of stuff? A lot more stuff than poor people.

 

it is funny how viscerally opposed the lazy leaching, net consuming Americans are to such a concept. 
 

What? Instead of disincentivizing production and earning with taxation, penalize the people shoving Big Macs into their gullet over of making their own food??? 
 

deter buying a bunch of junk that ends up in a landfill?? 
 

make it more costly to own 50 pairs of shoes? 
 

that’s not ‘merikuh… 

oh the horror. The lazy and degenerate net takers have no issue with productivity being taxed… but don’t take muh stuff! 
 

I’m interested in the idea of a consumption tax structure, instead of supporting a bunch of deadbeats with my income, responsible spending habits and decisions would actually be rewarded with less taxation… Im in

 

 

Man - you sound like a communist.

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:20 AM, Tiberius said:

No, red states leach off of the productive states. The rural

areas of this country are really poor, in many instances. 

That at a minimum a partial fallacy.  Let's use NYS as an example.  These were NYS top 10 exports in 2021.  

1. Gold: US$14.7 billion (16.3% of New York’s total exports) - my notes this is the NY Fed & NYMEX
2. Diamonds (unmounted): $9.6 billion (10.6%) - my notes this is the diamond district in Manhattan
3. Hand-drawn paintings, drawings: $4.5 billion (5%)
4. Jewelry articles clad in precious metal: $3.9 billion (4.3%)
5. Rubies, sapphires, emeralds: $1.3 billion (1.4%)
6. Silver: $1.137 billion (1.3%)- my notes this is the NYMEX
7. Parts of assembly machinery: $1.135 billion (1.3%)
8. Aircraft including engines, parts: $1.06 billion (1.2%)
9. Integrated circuits (processors/controllers): $1.01 billion (1.1%)
10. Original sculptures, statues: $911.8 million (1%)

Here's Kansas 2021 as an example:

1. Aircraft, aircraft parts including engines: US$2.1 billion (16.7% of Kansas’ exports)
2. Beef (boneless, fresh/chilled): $1.1 billion (8.6%)
3. Soybeans: $607.3 million (4.8%)
4. Corn: $583.7 million (4.7%)
5. Wheat, meslin: $500.5 million (4%)
6. Beef (boneless, frozen): $472.9 million (3.8%)
7. Grain sorghum: $379.9 million (3%)
8. Ethyl alcohol, other denatured spirits: $232.9 million (1.9%)
9. Dog and cat food for retail sale: $214.6 million (1.7%)
10. Modems, similar reception/transmission devices: $155.8 million (1.2%)

 

 

NYS is a great example of a financialized economy where not much in terms of real good is produced.  Kansas is not.  Which has more "value"?

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

That at a minimum a partial fallacy.  Let's use NYS as an example.  These were NYS top 10 exports in 2021.  

1. Gold: US$14.7 billion (16.3% of New York’s total exports) - my notes this is the NY Fed & NYMEX
2. Diamonds (unmounted): $9.6 billion (10.6%) - my notes this is the diamond district in Manhattan
3. Hand-drawn paintings, drawings: $4.5 billion (5%)
4. Jewelry articles clad in precious metal: $3.9 billion (4.3%)
5. Rubies, sapphires, emeralds: $1.3 billion (1.4%)
6. Silver: $1.137 billion (1.3%)- my notes this is the NYMEX
7. Parts of assembly machinery: $1.135 billion (1.3%)
8. Aircraft including engines, parts: $1.06 billion (1.2%)
9. Integrated circuits (processors/controllers): $1.01 billion (1.1%)
10. Original sculptures, statues: $911.8 million (1%)

Here's Kansas 2021 as an example:

1. Aircraft, aircraft parts including engines: US$2.1 billion (16.7% of Kansas’ exports)
2. Beef (boneless, fresh/chilled): $1.1 billion (8.6%)
3. Soybeans: $607.3 million (4.8%)
4. Corn: $583.7 million (4.7%)
5. Wheat, meslin: $500.5 million (4%)
6. Beef (boneless, frozen): $472.9 million (3.8%)
7. Grain sorghum: $379.9 million (3%)
8. Ethyl alcohol, other denatured spirits: $232.9 million (1.9%)
9. Dog and cat food for retail sale: $214.6 million (1.7%)
10. Modems, similar reception/transmission devices: $155.8 million (1.2%)

 

 

NYS is a great example of a financialized economy where not much in terms of real good is produced.  Kansas is not.  Which has more "value"?

 

Everything needs finance to be successful 

 

Period 

[SoCal Deek]

59 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

I don't need an explanation. I understand how they will spin it to make it seem fair and palatable for the masses. We won't know how we're getting screwed until long after the fact. Like I said, I don't trust any of them, simple as that.

And in the other thread you’re criticizing someone for space lasers? You have a palpable fear of ‘them’. Gene….it’s a SALES TAX. You pay one now! 
 

The problems with shifting to a national sales tax are certainly significant but the concept remains a very simple one. 

[cle23]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:50 AM, Westside said:

Don’t you mean urban blue cities? Lots of generations bleeding the public dry.

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

[SoCal Deek]

23 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

And you think we should cut them off? I’m not sure where you’re going with this. 

[Precision]

I love how these "poor" posters think they're somehow entitled to money earned by rich people.  Do you folks have a job or do you just like to complain that you aren't capable of earning more money? 

 

I'm rich, let me know what you need and my friend in Sudan can wire the money to you!

[cle23]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And you think we should cut them off? I’m not sure where you’re going with this. 

 

Did you not see the other guy claiming that all the Democratic generations bleeding people dry?  Just pointing out that overall, that isn't the case.  Ask him where he's going with his false info.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, cle23 said:

 

Did you not see the other guy claiming that all the Democratic generations bleeding people dry?  Just pointing out that overall, that isn't the case.  Ask him where he's going with his false info.

I think you just did. 😉

 

But…to set up a bunch of ridiculous government programs and then club people over the head for accepting the money that comes from them, has always seemed a bit odd to me. If you don’t want to give ‘red states’ the money…kill the programs. 

[cle23]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I think you just did. 😉

 

But…to set up a bunch of ridiculous government programs and then club people over the head for accepting the money that comes from them, has always seemed a bit odd to me. If you don’t want to give ‘red states’ the money…kill the programs. 

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

Edited February 23, 2023 by cle23

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

[Tommy Callahan]

8 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

[cle23]

27 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

 

The "career" lifestyle was incentivized as well.  It was a cheap way to buy votes.  And everyone point fingers at the "welfare queen" Democrats, but it's a problem that both sides have taken advantage of for years.  No one has the balls to restructure because it WILL cost them votes.  There is no simple answer to solve all the problems, but we have to start heading that direction somehow.

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

The "career" lifestyle was incentivized as well.  It was a cheap way to buy votes.  And everyone point fingers at the "welfare queen" Democrats, but it's a problem that both sides have taken advantage of for years.  No one has the balls to restructure because it WILL cost them votes.  There is no simple answer to solve all the problems, but we have to start heading that direction somehow.

The ‘somehow’ is to cut off these programs, or at the very least slowly defund them. Although well intentioned when they begin, your assessment of what they become is spot on. 

[T master]

21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What’s really funny is that according to BillStime, his family members left the school because of a book that was NOT in the library. Couldn’t they have just gotten that book for their children on their own? Now they have to buy them ALL the books, even the ones that ARE in the school library. Oh well. 

 

His brilliance must be a family trait i'm thinking 🤔 .

21 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Were you educated in Tennessee?

 

 

No in a small farming town that had to use common sense to make every day life decisions . Did you get educated in NYC or LA ? 

[T master]

22 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

Were you educated in Tennessee?

 

 

Let me guess seeing as you won't answer a simple question with a simple answer .

 

I'm guessing given your history of answers you were born & raised in DC & you are now a lobbyist for the Democratic party . 

 

How'd i do BT ?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 hours ago, Buffarukus said:

 

im not sure why they arent at least partnered with community service. clean your community. mentor a kid. soup kitchen help. require them to do SOMETHING and society can actually get a return on its tax money.

 

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

Feel the same for local jails and first-time criminals.  Put them to work. Wake them up early. make them do manual labor like cleaning or community work to both pay back the community and teach them that a normal life with a job is better than prison. cause the next step is usually for them to go from county, to upstate..  Then its over.

 

Cle23 has a hell of a point. Many on all sides game these systems to create a lifestyle long term vs a safety net for hard times..

 

 

 

 

good luck with getting that by the equity police. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

8 of the top 10 states for federal tax deficit are Red.  Kentucky takes in $26.6B more per year in federal aid than they pay in.  Alabama.  Louisiana.  Mississippi.  All huge deficits.

Now do county.

[JaCrispy]

I would not mind something like this but they would have to guarantee that they would eliminate all federal income tax- which I am skeptical that they would…

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

13 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

I think most "welfare" programs need reigned in, but I don't care who they are benefitting more when saying it.  I believe our country should provide some kind of safety net for people who fall on hard times, but it shouldn't be a career, no matter which side of the aisle is taking advantage of it.

 

These programs have morphed over the years into something they were never intended to be, and both Red and Blue are responsible.

This is it.  I find it interesting that the social safety net seems to be the size of 36 of the 50 states combined, that the people “leading” us have been in office for decades, have historically used insider information and influence peddling to become quite wealthy, and are looked to as architects of future tax law.  
 

This is a shared problem, borne of people generally out of touch with the problems of regular people, and nothing symbolizes it more clearly than the student loan buyout.  Joe says $10k, Warren et al says it’s not enough, $50k is a more equitable number.  
 

Meanwhile, a couple making $200k + is saved, and using sone basics planning tools, should be looking at family savings of $20,000 to $30,000 per year at a minimum. 
 

Unfortunately, ours is a consumption society where many people choose immediate gratification over doing some heavy lifting on their own, which in reality, is very light lifting. 

 

 

 

[cle23]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is it.  I find it interesting that the social safety net seems to be the size of 36 of the 50 states combined, that the people “leading” us have been in office for decades, have historically used insider information and influence peddling to become quite wealthy, and are looked to as architects of future tax law.  
 

This is a shared problem, borne of people generally out of touch with the problems of regular people, and nothing symbolizes it more clearly than the student loan buyout.  Joe says $10k, Warren et al says it’s not enough, $50k is a more equitable number.  
 

Meanwhile, a couple making $200k + is saved, and using sone basics planning tools, should be looking at family savings of $20,000 to $30,000 per year at a minimum. 
 

Unfortunately, ours is a consumption society where many people choose immediate gratification over doing some heavy lifting on their own, which in reality, is very light lifting. 

 

 

 

 

The student loan forgiveness thing is the dumbest course of action I've seen in a long time.  Are the loans predatory?  Absolutely.  So force the loans to be restructured to a reasonable situation, penalize the loan companies who intentionally caused the problem to enrich themselves, and then pay what you borrowed back with a reasonable interest situation.  The penalties should also pay back the loans that are paid in full, but that were forced to pay way more than a reasonable amount.  No student loan for $50K should take $120K to pay back.  I was lucky enough to pay mine and my wife's off within 5-6 years of graduation, but we sacrificed a lot in order to do that.

 

The loan forgiveness is just students and the loan companies benefitting from their dumb decisions, while the country eats it.

Edited February 23, 2023 by cle23

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:22 AM, Gene Frenkle said:

Inflation is raging. The Fed has continued to print dollars at an alarming rate. Salaries have not caught up to inflated prices.

 

 

So they want us to pay 30% on inflated prices instead of being taxed on our incomes, which are relatively deflated as more dollars are printed. As per usual, the 99% get screwed while the 1% presumably find ways around paying the new 30% sales tax? Call me a cynic,, but I feel like the average American is yet again taking it up the arse here. Thanks, old rich white guys!

 

What am I missing here?

 

It’s nothing more than political gamesmanship and posturing. The GOP is virtue signaling to its base so to keep them energized and active for the upcoming primaries. They’re also virtue signaling to undecided independents and economic libertarians alike, reminding them that the GOP is the purported party of fiscal responsibility and personal accountability while the Dems are the party of reckless spending and freeloading.

 

Now do I think this is an effective political strategy? No, absolutely not, because it will probably do more to energize the Dem base and because polling data indicates that Americans are strongly unreceptive to a 30% national sales tax replacement.

 

Moreover, economists will inevitably make their rounds in the media to obliterate the merit of this tax policy. And rightfully so…you can’t switch to a highly regressive taxation system in the midst of high inflation and low levels of personal/family unit savings. It will crush the working class, the poor, the retired, and significant portions of the middle class. We have an economy driven mostly by consumer spending, so this will halt/reverse economic growth and destroy investment portfolios.

 

If all this national sales tax talk somehow persists beyond the primaries and - even worse – actually gains traction in Congress, then our country needs to hold some earnest public debates on some very fundamental concepts, namely the diminishing marginal utility of wealth and the philosophy of “fair share” with regards to labor. Oh and throw in as much fiscal policy and monetary policy as possible, really, since we’re talking about taxes and inflation. Basically just a lot less drag queen story hour in the news and a lot more macroeconomics discussion.

 

EDIT: silly spelling mistake.

Edited February 27, 2023 by ComradeKayAdams

[sherpa]

Years ago, this issue actually got some reasoned, rational discussion.

The print number was discussed with an entire format of exclusions to protect the poor and eliminate the tax on certain necessities.

 

Sadly, that discussion is not possible now.