Fox News- Josh Allen's spiritual awakening

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I respect that you at least have the humility to say you don't have all the answers. I grew up in a Christian setting and that was always so maddening to me. They didn't want to hear my questions and just couldn't admit that all the answers weren't in the Bible. And the evangelical side of it and people seemingly being OK with others being sent to Hell specifically not for being Christian was always a big turnoff for me. 

 

I'm firmly agnostic, I believe anything is possible and love to debate about it but I appreciate that you see that other side of it that it's incredibly hard to make sense out of all of it rather than having a condescending view that you just "know" God and others don't. 

I appreciate this. Everything you said. Yeah I just can't go around acting like I have it all figured out. I do believe that God has a purpose and I do not have a revelation as to what it all is. I have His word and need to respect that as I am on a "journey of faith", so are others. I can't expect another person to be where I am at or to put pressure on myself to be where they are either. My hope is that others know Christ, but I know that not everyone does and I can't put disrespect upon them for not believing what I do. I believe that God is love and that I have to be loving as an example. Yelling at people doesn't create any kind of change but relationships and patience with love can. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Goin Breakdown

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Anyone who would imply that...does not know God.

 

The belief that that faith, expressed through prayers, declarations of faith, and donations to the church—draws health, wealth, and happiness into believers' lives is a Thing (especially the health and wealth).  Prosperity Gospel is alive and well in many churches, sometimes subtly and between the lines, sometimes explicit.

My BIL was for many years, the minister of a series of small country fundamentalist Christian churches.  That's what he felt called to do, though it paid poorly and he supported his family running a business.  But he (and we) heard with our own ears people who identify as Christians implying he did not know God or have strong enough faith, because God had not blessed him with wordly goods.  And yeah, when my niece's FIL passed from a disease I won't mention, it was implied by some that his faith, and the faith and prayers of his family were not sufficiently pure or strong.

 

I respect faith, and I believe that prayer has a real power, but I feel that interpreting football success as divine favor is a form of Prosperity Gospel.   You might grasp from the above, I am not a fan of that in any form.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[wppete]

Amazing article. Great to see. 

[WotAGuy]

38 minutes ago, NUT said:

While we don't fully understand the universe, I think we can guarantee there is no dude in a white toga and white beard out there making sure a kickoff return happens three years and three months later. 

 

Humans need to do better.

Agreed. That toga was Royal Bills Blue baby!

[Johnny Bravo]

13 hours ago, Trock said:

Oh, the old guilt trip from some guy in the sky looking down on us making sure we behave. Repent!!

Yeah, because that is what he said.

[WotAGuy]

I wonder if the Bills locker room has had these very same discussions. I’m sure not every player is a Christian and there are likely agnostics and atheists on the team.
 

McDermott talked openly about God’s presence in the Damar situation last week.  I wonder how much of that he presents to the team and how that is received by those that don’t hold the same beliefs.

 

I can see that there have been some deep and maybe contentious discussions in the locker room the past couple weeks. Hopefully, they are able to make it all work together. 

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why is this still a thread? 

I was wondering how it made it this far as well. Hopefully it’s because people are being civil and carrying on with some Bills relevance sprinkled in. 

[Beck Water]

44 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Uhh, they did a whole Saturday Night Live skit mocking him (which was funny by the way)

 

I thought that SNL skit was hysterical.

 

But were they mocking Tebow for being a Christian, or for Tebow and other Christians attributing the Broncos wins to divine favor and otherwise making a huge public deal out of his beliefs, as though (paraphrasing the skit) Jesus was in fact dropping everything else going on in the world to "bail out the Denver Broncos in the 4th Q"?

 

I think the latter, because at the time there had been other publicly professed Christians prominent in the NFL, like Kurt Warner in '08-09, and I don't recall their beliefs being parodied by comedians.  I could mis-remember.

 

Again, I respect faith as a personal belief, I respect professions of belief, and I do believe that prayer has a real, positive power.  But I don't like Prosperity Gospel and I feel attributing football success to prayer or divine favor is a form of Prosperity Gospel like God is a kindergarten teacher putting gold stars on the best coloring page. 

 

To me it's different to thank God for a win out of the sincere belief that everything you do is as a servant of God and for His Glory.  I believe that when McDermott says "all Glory to God" after a victory, he's expressing thanks that he and his team have been given the physical and mental gifts to work hard and achieve a win and he's dedicating his part in that achievement to the Glory of God - he's not saying "we won because I believe, therefore God rewarded us with Divine Favor and gave us the victory"

 

I believe that because of little phrases McDermott drops that remind me of the way some of my family with those beliefs would phrase things.

 

I'm probably not expressing the difference I see very well.  I'm not used to talking about this stuff.  But it's a clear difference to my mind. 

 

And of course I could be wrong, not being personally acquainted with Coach McDermott or his personal beliefs.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[Trock]

53 minutes ago, Johnny Bravo said:

Yeah, because that is what he said.

Im not into cults nor fear mongering. 

[muppy]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Why is this still a thread? 

who are you the thread police? It's got 6 pages and civil.  You Can pass it on by if not your cuppa tea.

 

Peace.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

The belief that that faith, expressed through prayers, declarations of faith, and donations to the church—draws health, wealth, and happiness into believers' lives is a Thing (especially the health and wealth).  Prosperity Gospel is alive and well in many churches, sometimes subtly and between the lines, sometimes explicit.

My BIL was for many years, the minister of a series of small country fundamentalist Christian churches.  That's what he felt called to do, though it paid poorly and he supported his family running a business.  But he (and we) heard with our own ears people who identify as Christians implying he did not know God or have strong enough faith, because God had not blessed him with wordly goods.  And yeah, when my niece's FIL passed from a disease I won't mention, it was implied by some that his faith, and the faith and prayers of his family were not sufficiently pure or strong.

 

I respect faith, and I believe that prayer has a real power, but I feel that interpreting football success as divine favor is a form of Prosperity Gospel.   You might grasp from the above, I am not a fan of that in any form.

Neither am I.  God does not promise prosperity and churches that preach that are gaining prosperity from their attendees.  It's almost like they're turning religion into a ponzi scheme.  In the words of Tevya from Fiddler on the Roof..."Would it spoil some vast eternal plan, if I were a wealthy man?"

[JDHillFan]

34 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think it’s obvious the regime targets players of faith… so I would imagine a very large % of the locker room are devout believers in god.

Can you provide any examples of how they target players of faith? This would imply they exclude others. Any examples? Or is it just because the owner and coach aren’t bashful in speaking on matters of faith?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think it’s obvious the regime targets players of faith… so I would imagine a very large % of the locker room are devout believers in god.

Most of the NFL is very religious, IMO

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Uhh, they did a whole Saturday Night Live skit mocking him (which was funny by the way)

IIRC that skit did not mock him being a Christian, it mocked him for how vigorously he promoted that aspect of himself and how bad of a QB he was. 

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I pray for them every week. Also, of note, sometimes it takes darkness to see the light. That's how it worked with me.

 

 

Well whatever it was, welcome back to the light of TBD, Brother Joe!

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

The classic crutch from Christians who don't want to actually have a tough in-depth discussion..."you just don't know him like I do!"

 

That's not what I was saying at all.  My point was that anyone who would imply that a person died because someone who loved him/her didn't pray enough is just wrong and is attaching an aspect to God that is conditional.  I don't claim to know God any more than the next person.  But, I know whom I believe. 

 

I don't have the answers to all the questions nor do I claim to.  There is randomness in this world.  Bad things happen to good people and vice versa.  That's actually what the book of Ecclisiastes is about..."all is vanity and striving after wind."   Such things can drive one away from faith and believing that there even could be a God.  For others, the opposite conclusion is just as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Uhh, they did a whole Saturday Night Live skit mocking him (which was funny by the way)

He was anointed, he was mocked, and everything in between.  He received way more attention than a project QB would have ever received, both good and bad, due to his faith.  ESPN recognized it right away and Tebowed us to death.  Even when his sports career was reduced to special teams gadget player and semi pro baseball player, there was a 3 ring circus following him.  Tebow used his platform to evangelize.  People lapped it up and others grew weary of it. 

 

I'm glad my QB has real talent and a personality apart from whatever brand of faith he subscribes to.   

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I wonder if the Bills locker room has had these very same discussions. I’m sure not every player is a Christian and there are likely agnostics and atheists on the team.
 

McDermott talked openly about God’s presence in the Damar situation last week.  I wonder how much of that he presents to the team and how that is received by those that don’t hold the same beliefs.

 

I can see that there have been some deep and maybe contentious discussions in the locker room the past couple weeks. Hopefully, they are able to make it all work together. 

I was wondering how it made it this far as well. Hopefully it’s because people are being civil and carrying on with some Bills relevance sprinkled in. 

I think McD is a great leader of men in that locker room. I don't think he is concerned about someone's faith when it comes to taking care of them and loving them as people. We should all do the same, treat people with respect regardless of their beliefs. I'm confident a that his approach works. That being said you can't please everyone all the time. This team seems to really be a "family". It's something that I have never really seen in football. I mean you got Allen and Diggs telling each other they love each other in media clips. That's really cool. Enjoy your day! And Go Bills!

[LeviF]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I wonder if the Bills locker room has had these very same discussions. I’m sure not every player is a Christian and there are likely agnostics and atheists on the team.
 

McDermott talked openly about God’s presence in the Damar situation last week.  I wonder how much of that he presents to the team and how that is received by those that don’t hold the same beliefs.

 

I can see that there have been some deep and maybe contentious discussions in the locker room the past couple weeks. Hopefully, they are able to make it all work together. 

I was wondering how it made it this far as well. Hopefully it’s because people are being civil and carrying on with some Bills relevance sprinkled in. 

I would bet that NFL players are more religious than the general population. American blacks are more likely to be religious than the general population and obviously the NFL has more black people, by percentage, than the general population. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

The classic crutch from Christians who don't want to actually have a tough in-depth discussion..."you just don't know him like I do!"

 

So if you believe there's this loving, kind God...why would it matter if someone was wrong and Christianity or any other specific religion was real? Seems awfully petty to hold that against someone in a world where so little can make sense and there are no straightforward answers. 

Happy to always talk more in DM with you; I know faith discussions like this that go into detail are generally frowned on otherwise.   I don’t pretend to have all the answers but I’m always up for a tough in depth discussion on this topic. 👍🏻

[Billsatlastin2018]

I am a lapsed Catholic, even a former Altar Boy. The trials and tribulations of life have led me to question- everything and develop a titanium spine to deal with its adversities and vicissitudes. And question God, because he was not there.

 

Whatever you believe happened in Damar’s case .. something bigger than him occurred that night.   It created a unity in the country around prayer and re-examined the lost reliance in our country on God.  I’ve never seen anything like it. Josh noticed it, we all noticed it.. and Damar noticed it. 

Still, like so many around the sports world and the planet, I was drawn to the Damar, never before seen, life changing event. It so impressed me, that the HCs, star QBs, teams and many commentators just got it absolutely correct! 
As in perfect! Soooooo needed in America today or anywhere for that matter.
 

And kudos to the world class health professionals in Cincinnati, especially those in the time stood still, agonizing, first 9 minutes! And yes, the simple spirituality of the entire story, including prayers to every god and belief in the indomitable human spirit.

 

As for Sideshow Bob Tebow? Meh. I have always disliked these displays of public adoration, designed to focus on ONE God and pimping up one individual. I always respected the Pharisees- Publicans dichotomy… and you know which side I’m on!

 

Immediately below is an: “Act like you’ve been Barry Sanders before”, tell. It is the way, I want Christians… hell people to act in life. And they most assuredly did with the Hamlin tale.

 

“By their deeds you will know them.”

 

And how cool is this story, that Lamar may one day return to the football field for the Bills as the first person who literally returned from a death experience.

 

’Spiritual ’ indeed. ✔️

Edited January 14, 2023 by Billsatlastin2018