Criticism of McD and coaching has reached insanity level…

[Big Turk]

Not many coaches would have been able to win two games in 5 days dealing with everything they dealt with. 

 

We should be a little more appreciative of what we have instead of always looking at what he did wrong. He has done far more right than wrong since he has been here.

 

Some people quickly have forgotten what it was like to be wandering around aimlessly for 17 years.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

At the end of the half against the lions the primary issue was that the Bills ran out of downs not time. Maybe that is on Allen for not taking the open looks over the middle of the field or tucking and running since the Bills had timeouts left to take advantage of.

 

Either way, the Bills have not been a great red zone offense this year I don’t  think but they did manage to easily get a Fg at the end of each half against the lions. Bill seem to be very good at doing that which is still a lot better than no points at all. Drought era Bills it always seemed like a miracle just to get three points on those situations. With this team three points is the minimum expectation. 
 

I remember in the loss to the Jets being shocked that we couldn’t get a drive going. I think there was a big penalty that hurt too?

 

Against Miami they got a few plays but everyone was too gassed. I think a big penalty also may have come into play as well.

[Coach Tuesday]

McDermott starting next year will be coaching a team with a huge QB cap number, forcing them to start replacement-level vets or young players at various positions throughout the roster, with very little depth.  It will look a lot like this injury-depleted stretch has looked.  He is going to have to coach better to get a roster like that to perform at a high level for 17 games and the playoffs.  

[PJBrown7]

On 11/26/2022 at 6:51 AM, eball said:

I know, I know, it’s a message board and not everyone has to agree about everything.  Debate and discussion are good.  It just seems to me that the coaching of this team is being questioned at an insane level.  The Bills are 8-3 and within 11 points of being undefeated.  Every starter on defense has missed time; they have not played ONE game with their presumed starting secondary intact.  Allen has a bum elbow.  They got a total of TWO full practices in over the past two weeks and yet won two games in five days.

 

They beat the Rams on the road (before we knew the Rams would stink).  They crushed the Titans.  They won at Baltimore in a gritty way.  They won at KC.

 

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

Should he be calling plays?  Is it Dorsey everyone is really upset about?  Well, Dorse is also learning on the job, and maybe I’m naive but I think it has been hard to gameplan the past two weeks with only two practices.  And yet, the offense is still putting up yards and points at very high levels.  The last couple of weeks the running game has showed up as well.

 

Summing up — I don’t get it.  At all.  And as far as I know, not one of you is in the locker room or on the practice field with this team.  My conclusion is that there are a lot of keyboard warriors with way too much time on their hands who expect 14-point wins weekly.  I would love to hear, specifically, what decisions some believe McD has made or not made that are responsible for the “predicament” we find ourselves in (tied for 1st).

 

I’m going to continue to enjoy this ride, knowing my team is one of the best in the league and still has every opportunity to bring home the ultimate prize.  I’m thrilled McD is our HC and Beane is our GM.

 

Go Bills!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!

 

Here here!

[JimmyNoodles]

10 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

As an outspoken critic of McD, I'll cherry pick the issues that I've seen.  I'll start with the time management at the end of both halves of the DET game.  At the end of the first half, 1st & 10 at BUF 25, (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards.  CALL TIMEOUT!!!  Instead, they ran 32 seconds off the clock before an incomplete pass to Diggs stopped the clock at 1:20.  The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.  In the 2nd half, the Bills panicked by calling the last TO with 7 seconds instead of 3 or 4 so that the FG attempt would be the last play of the game.

 

Let's look at the Minnesota game.  Dorsey took an eminently winnable game and threw it away.  Here's the series from the play-by-play:

 

(4:34 - 4th) G.Joseph kicks 59 yards from MIN 35 to BUF 6. D.Johnson to BUF 28 for 22 yards (T.Jackson; T.Dye).

1st & 10 at BUF 28

(4:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to D.Singletary to BUF 28 for no gain (D.Hunter).

2nd & 10 at BUF 28

(3:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-S.Diggs, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 28 - No Play.

2nd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short left to S.Diggs.

3rd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to S.Diggs (H.Smith).

4th & 15 at BUF 23

(3:26 - 4th) S.Martin punts 53 yards to MIN 24, Center-R.Ferguson, fair catch by J.Reagor.

   

When the above bolded plays were run, MIN had one timeout left.  You run the ball twice, and take up to 1:20 off the clock, or about 45 seconds if MIN uses their last TO.  Either scenario wins you the ballgame.

 

Let's go back to the earlier in the 4th QTR (this is a theme I'll show from games earlier in the season):  

 

1st & 10 at MIN 15

(11:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to I.McKenzie to MIN 7 for 8 yards (C.Bynum).

2nd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:49 - 4th) J.Allen pass incomplete short left. Thrown into ground at line.

3rd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie.

4th & 2 at MIN 7

(10:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for D.Knox INTERCEPTED by P.Peterson at MIN -5. P.Peterson to MIN 34 for 39 yards (J.Allen).

 

This is a pattern from previous games.  2nd and 2 at the MIN 7, and you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  Run the ball, keep the clock running, and don't be ATL handing the Cheats a Super Bowl by not running the ball in the 2nd half.  But we saw this pattern in previous weeks.

 

Bills v. Chefs, Week 6

 

1st & Goal at KC 10

(7:27 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Singletary right end to KC 3 for 7 yards (J.Williams).

2nd & 3 at KC 3

(6:45 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to G.Davis (D.Harris).

3rd & 3 at KC 3

(6:41 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Singletary (C.Jones) [J.Thornhill].

4th & 3 at KC 3

(6:37 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie. BUF-S.Brown was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

 

This is where the pattern started.  2nd and Goal at the 3 yard line.  Motor just ran for 7 to get you there.  Yet you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!! (McKittrick haterz will be jumping all over this, they just can't help themselves).  Luckily, we won the Chiefs game so this series did not cost us the game.  Dorsey did the same thing against the Pack:

 

1st & Goal at GB 7

(10:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Cook left guard to GB 3 for 4 yards (A.Amos).

2nd & 3 at GB 3

(10:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Hart reported in as eligible. J.Allen pass incomplete short right to S.Diggs.

3rd & Goal at GB 3

(10:02 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for G.Davis INTERCEPTED by J.Alexander at GB 3. J.Alexander to GB 5 for 2 yards (G.Davis).

 

Once again, you had a nice running play to get you to 2nd and Goal at the 3, yet you call THRE....er.....TWO STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  The problem I have with Dorsey is that he is not learning from his mistakes, because we saw this in Detwah: 

 

Bills are down 3 points after the DET TD, but Motor is averaging 5+ yards/carry.  Motor gets 1 and 8 yards on the 1st and 4th plays of the 8-play series that ends in a punt.  Every other play is a pass.  For those of you at home, that's 6 passes to 2 runs, in a game where Motor is kicking the crap out the Lions and JA is struggling.  No need to go so pass happy when you're only down 3.

 

McD needs to rein Dorsey in.  When the running game is working, lean on it.  Give your injured QB some help, instead of saddling him up and needing him to play hero ball to pull the team's ass out the fire.

I agree with all your examples and remember yelling at the TV myself during some them. If they decided it’s four down territory and have second down and two or three, I’m running three times to get two yards.  But, that’s me and maybe you, but not how Dorsey is seeing it.  There’s always second guessing when things don’t work. If they ran three times and got stuffed the story would be why didn’t they throw it. I see what i would define as questionable decisions every weekend with all teams including coaches like Reid and Bellycheat. Clock mismanagement is rampant across the league IMO, but as another poster stated this may be some analytics thing. I’d rather have more downs (chances) to score even with less or no timeouts. Ultimately, what I’m saying is the Bills screw up sometimes but so does everyone else. Winning washes away everything. Reid was a big loser in Philly. Couldn’t win the big one. Now that narrative has changed completely. The Bills story for this year has yet to written.  

[Freddie's Dead]

8 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I don’t really feel like going through everything else right now, but they didn’t panic. 
 

It was 1st and 10. They called a timeout with 7 seconds left to give them another chance at a FG if there was a botched snap or anything of that nature. Actually a smart football move that you didn’t recognize. 
 

If someone like say, Sean McVay did this, people would be licking his wee-wee. 

 

It was their last timeout.  If they had another one left, it would have been a smart move.

[Freddie's Dead]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

For the criticism from @Freddie's Dead (above) over the end of half play calling against Detroit I think it is slightly out of date thinking. 

 

The Bills took a timeout home at the end of the first half.  That's bad clock management.  If I'm outta date thinking that, then so be it.  Just call me T-Rex.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The Bills took a timeout home at the end of the first half.  That's bad clock management.  If I'm outta date thinking that, then so be it.  Just call me T-Rex.

 

They took a timeout home because they threw two incompletions. Not because of bad time management. 

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

There was no elbow injury in the second half of the Green Bay game

 

 

We all sure about that?

[PrimeTime101]

14 minutes ago, NUT said:

I really hate when people say stuff like this. Meaningless.

stats are not meaningless, but one stat does not tell the whole story

[Freddie's Dead]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They took a timeout home because they threw two incompletions. Not because of bad time management. 

 

Dave Mason time.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We all sure about that?

 

YUP, 1,000%

 

 

[SoTier]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:57 AM, JerseyBills said:

Very well said op

 

I actually like the adversity and the fact we're not blowing out teams still. I think it'll be a blessing in disguise come January. 

Shoot it wasn't even a week ago ppl were questioning if we'd even make the playoffs 🤣

 

This is exactly how I feel.  The Bills will be a better team in January for winning tight games in November and December.   My sense is that good teams that have to scrap to get into the playoffs or to get high seedings seem to do better in the playoffs that teams that coast in.

[PrimeTime101]

19 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

There was no elbow injury in the second half of the Green Bay game or the time in the Jets game where he threw the ball right to Sauce Gardner as well... some here forgot those convenient facts.

 

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

;

We all sure about that?

 

3 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

YUP, 1,000%

 

 

you made me think about this game 1:55  Josh gets hit square in the elbow.  I remember him shaking it off and they never went to tent or ace bandaged it after.  interesting convo to have though

 

FYI just because he was not listed for anything does not mean there was not a slight issue.

Edited November 27, 2022 by PrimeTime101

[Simon]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

This is extreme wishful thinking…

 

That is not wishful thinking, it something teams practice and prepare for.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

you made me think about this game 1:55  Josh gets hit square in the elbow.  I remember him shaking it off and they never went to tent or ace bandaged it after.  interesting convo to have though

 

FYI just because he was not listed for anything does not mean there was not a slight issue.

 

Being deceptive about injuries is what the Cheatriots do, not the Bills. If they did hide this then it's not good.

[cgg716]

Allen has had to be other worldy for wins so many times, when he's average the defense and this defensive coach can't help him. The frustration is in the absolute certainty that the D will collapse when the chips are down, and how over the course of several years this has proven unfixable

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Being deceptive about injuries is what the Cheatriots do, not the Bills. If they did hide this then it's not good.

the point being, maybe it was a slight tweak that game that Josh really never mentioned cause it did not feel like something to tell a trainer. happens every day. then the next game, the same elbow gets tweaked harder and becomes an issue... again this happens often. The NFL rules dictate reported injuries. Players get tweaked all the time and do not say word one to a trainer.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

the point being, maybe it was a slight tweak that game that Josh really never mentioned cause it did not feel like something to tell a trainer. happens every day. then the next game, the same elbow gets tweaked harder and becomes an issue... again this happens often. The NFL rules dictate reported injuries. Players get tweaked all the time and do not say word one to a trainer.

 

That kind of stuff is what hurt the Browns with Baker. I am in no way saying Josh is Baker, but if toughing it out hurts the team and hurts the player, it makes no sense for Josh to do that again.

[PrimeTime101]

17 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

That kind of stuff is what hurt the Browns with Baker. I am in no way saying Josh is Baker, but if toughing it out hurts the team and hurts the player, it makes no sense for Josh to do that again.

I agree, and I am not saying this happened... no true proof.. but lets fact facts.. after that hit is when his throwing got silly right? its just a fun conversation to have more than anything else.

[mjt328]

On 11/26/2022 at 6:51 AM, eball said:

I know, I know, it’s a message board and not everyone has to agree about everything.  Debate and discussion are good.  It just seems to me that the coaching of this team is being questioned at an insane level.  The Bills are 8-3 and within 11 points of being undefeated.  Every starter on defense has missed time; they have not played ONE game with their presumed starting secondary intact.  Allen has a bum elbow.  They got a total of TWO full practices in over the past two weeks and yet won two games in five days.

 

They beat the Rams on the road (before we knew the Rams would stink).  They crushed the Titans.  They won at Baltimore in a gritty way.  They won at KC.

 

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

Should he be calling plays?  Is it Dorsey everyone is really upset about?  Well, Dorse is also learning on the job, and maybe I’m naive but I think it has been hard to gameplan the past two weeks with only two practices.  And yet, the offense is still putting up yards and points at very high levels.  The last couple of weeks the running game has showed up as well.

 

Summing up — I don’t get it.  At all.  And as far as I know, not one of you is in the locker room or on the practice field with this team.  My conclusion is that there are a lot of keyboard warriors with way too much time on their hands who expect 14-point wins weekly.  I would love to hear, specifically, what decisions some believe McD has made or not made that are responsible for the “predicament” we find ourselves in (tied for 1st).

 

I’m going to continue to enjoy this ride, knowing my team is one of the best in the league and still has every opportunity to bring home the ultimate prize.  I’m thrilled McD is our HC and Beane is our GM.

 

Go Bills!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!

 

 

Fair or not... the expectations for the 2022 Buffalo Bills were probably higher than any other point in franchise history.  Coming into this season, Vegas had us as hands-down Super Bowl favorites.  Most of the media personalities also picked us to win it.  I don't recall that even happening during the 90s (when teams like the 49ers and Cowboys were considered better).  Fans who have been waiting 30, 40, 50+ years for a championship, spent the entire offseason building themselves up and saying "THIS IS OUR YEAR."

 

At this point, the team simply has not lived up to those high expectations.  Since the blowout in Tennessee, the team has been on a clear and obvious decline:  

 

-  First the offense started looking streaky and sloppy, leading to the Week 3 loss in Miami.  Although they are still putting decent points on the board, the fact remains:  The Bills haven't had 4 quarters of strong offense since the Titans game.  Even against the Steelers, the Bills only scored once in the second half.

 

-  Since the bye, the defense has struggled terribly.  They went from a strength to a liability.  It started with run defense, and has bled over to us getting torched in the secondary.  We almost let the Packers back into the game.  Lost two straight to the Jets and Vikings.  And then barely scraped out wins against the Browns and Lions.

 

Maybe the problem is injuries.  Maybe it's player talent.  Maybe it's coaching.

The fact remains, this team needs to turn things around ASAP.  The next three games will likely determine our season.

If we get the Bills from Weeks 8-12, our best bet will be a Wild Card spot.

 

[Beck Water]

On 11/27/2022 at 1:40 PM, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

YUP, 1,000%

 

 

 

Er...we do know that players don't appear on the injury report, unless they can't go, or they seek diagnosis and specific treatment for an injury and it limits them in practice?  Josh Allen said something to the effect of, at this time of year, everyone is pretty much playing through injury and if they tell you they aren't, they're probably lying."  Allen probably gets some form of training room treatment after every game for a bruise or for soreness in his legs, shoulder, and throwing arm.  And players aren't healed when they disappear off the injury report, they're just healed enough to practice and play and are still getting treatment.

 

And players don't like to publicize injuries.  Football is not a nice sport.  If a guy is known to have an injury, the other team will target it, You Betcha.

---------------

I thought it was interesting to hear Carson Palmer talk about his own UCL, which sounds more severe

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/analysis/carson-palmer-talks-josh-allens-ucl-injury-reflects-on-own-experience/

 

He said it didn't hurt, he finished the game, it wasn't something he reported or sought treatment for.  But in practice next week, he had balls just not go where he wanted - they would die and hit the dirt.  And not every ball - maybe 2 or 3 good balls then a dirter.  After watching that, the docs did a scan and found a serious tear that shut him down.

 

Anyway give it a listen. 

--------------

It was notable to me that in the 2nd half of the GB game, the ball stopped obeying Allen's commands as usual.  Allen was 8/11 with 2 TD in the first half.  He was 5/14 with 0 TD and 2 INT in the 2nd half. 

 

And of course, in the Jets game. Allen was "off" before the injury, 18 of 34.  And it wasn't just fantastic pass defense, either.  Balls were overthrown, or hitting the ground in front of receivers, or thrown behind the receiver.

 

Clearly, that's not all that's going on, there is clearly bad judgement or not reading coverage the same way as the receiver etc., perhaps poor play design that doesn't scheme guys open,   But a previous time we saw a sudden plunge in Allen's completion percentage was in 2020 when Allen injured his shoulder during the Raiders game, so it had me going "hmmmm".

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Er...we do know that players don't appear on the injury report, unless they can't go, or they seek diagnosis and specific treatment for an injury and it limits them in practice?  Josh Allen said something to the effect of, at this time of year, everyone is pretty much playing through injury and if they tell you they aren't, they're probably lying."  Allen probably gets some form of training room treatment after every game for a bruise or for soreness in his legs, shoulder, and throwing arm.  And players aren't healed when they disappear off the injury report, they're just healed enough to practice and play and are still getting treatment.

 

And players don't like to publicize injuries.  Football is not a nice sport.  If a guy is known to have an injury, the other team will target it, You Betcha.

---------------

I thought it was interesting to hear Carson Palmer talk about his own UCL, which sounds more severe

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/analysis/carson-palmer-talks-josh-allens-ucl-injury-reflects-on-own-experience/

 

He said it didn't hurt, he finished the game, it wasn't something he reported or sought treatment for.  But in practice next week, he had balls just not go where he wanted - they would die and hit the dirt.  And not every ball - maybe 2 or 3 good balls then a dirter.  After watching that, the docs did a scan and found a serious tear that shut him down.

 

Anyway give it a listen. 

--------------

It was notable to me that in the 2nd half of the GB game, the ball stopped obeying Allen's commands as usual.  Allen was 8/11 with 2 TD in the first half.  He was 5/14 with 0 TD and 2 INT in the 2nd half. 

 

And of course, in the Jets game. Allen was "off" before the injury, 18 of 34.  And it wasn't just fantastic pass defense, either.  Balls were overthrown, or hitting the ground in front of receivers, or thrown behind the receiver.

 

Clearly, that's not all that's going on, there is clearly bad judgement or not reading coverage the same way as the receiver etc., perhaps poor play design that doesn't scheme guys open,   But a previous time we saw a sudden plunge in Allen's completion percentage was in 2020 when Allen injured his shoulder during the Raiders game, so it had me going "hmmmm".

 

 

I had already discussed this above and saw the point you were trying to make and I now appreciate the response you gave. It's just bizarre that a guy who is a franchise QB and Son of Buffalo would hide the injury and shrug it off, particularly since he had elbow issues before. 

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

I had already discussed this above and saw the point you were trying to make and I now appreciate the response you gave. It's just bizarre that a guy who is a franchise QB and Son of Buffalo would hide the injury and shrug it off, particularly since he had elbow issues before. 

 

Oh, sorry, I missed that.

 

I don't think it was hiding the injury, so much as I imagine it's a matter of degree. Allen is probably sore and hurting in various joints after every game.  Imagine his arm after throwing 63 times vs. Miami in that heat!  And remember Carson said his sprain didn't hurt, like at all!!!!  and it wasn't every ball.  Allen probably had 3-4 bruises in different areas that hurt worse.

 

So in my completely circumstantial theory, Allen would probably attribute problems with sending the ball where he wanted, consistently, in the 2nd half of the Packers game to improper technique maybe after getting hit hard a few times, and resolve to refocus on technique.  I don't think he was hiding anything.

 

Then in the Jets game, I think the injury may have zinged a nerve (not to mention showing up on national TV), which would alert the Bills medical Brain Trust to shove the Golden Arm into the Tappy Tube and devise a treatment and recovery plan for it.