Movin The Chains is in the process of evaluating the offensive lines these two weeks

[Punching Bag]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:35 AM, Chandler#81 said:

How can that be? I read right here our OLine sucks and is nearly everybody’s biggest concern and fear.

We have such a knowledgeable group here. 🤦‍♂️

 

We certainly have experts at sucking.

[machine gun kelly]

I started this dialogue for discussion.  I think if you have Sirius and listen you’ll enjoy some of the topic.  I’ll add as the NFC posts.  I don’t disagree after

listening to all four shows of the AFC once they explained their findings.

[Paul Costa]

19 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I started this dialogue for discussion.  I think if you have Sirius and listen you’ll enjoy some of the topic.  I’ll add as the NFC posts.  I don’t disagree after

listening to all four shows of the AFC once they explained their findings.

Pat & Jim are a good listen. They have pride in their job.They try and be as objective as possible. They have their favorites like anyone else. They have tremendous respect for Coach McDermott & Brandon Beane. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, eball said:

First of all, I think Kirwan and Miller do a very in-depth job when they take on a “league-wide ranking” exercise such as this one.  It’s not fluff.  They also value OL play quite highly and have frequent guests/experts on their show on the topic.  If they believe the Bills have the 2nd best OL in the AFC it’s not a snap judgment.

 

I believe the overall discussion of the OL on this board, however, reinforces a couple of common tendencies among football fans in general:

 

1 - fans who tend to focus on “areas to improve” almost always bemoan the team’s OL play and don’t seem to take a big picture view (i.e., compared to the league); and

2 - fans tend to forget (or ignore) that every team in the league has issues with consistent OL play.

 

I bet if you visit the other 31 teams’ primary fan message boards you’ll find 31 fan bases who gripe and moan about their team’s OL.  It’s just what we as fans do.

 

I’m always an optimistic fan, but getting rid of Bobby Johnson and bringing in Beach Chairs is still the most important move the Bills have made for the offense this offseason.

 

 

 

I slighlty challenge this. This time last year I was bullish about our OL (wrongly, as it turned out). I don't think this can just be put down to "normal OL chatter by fans." This is based on actual play on the actual field last season. And I watch lots of other teams. The Bills OL was bottom half of the league in 2021. 

 

Are there reasons to think it will be better in 2022? Yes - Kromer's addition, Dawkins at full health, year 2 for Spencer Brown, hopefully fewer musical chairs required among the starting 5. But it isn't a given. The concerns are legit. 

[eball]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I slighlty challenge this. This time last year I was bullish about our OL (wrongly, as it turned out). I don't think this can just be put down to "normal OL chatter by fans." This is based on actual play on the actual field last season. And I watch lots of other teams. The Bills OL was bottom half of the league in 2021. 

 

Are there reasons to think it will be better in 2022? Yes - Kromer's addition, Dawkins at full health, year 2 for Spencer Brown, hopefully fewer musical chairs required among the starting 5. But it isn't a given. The concerns are legit. 

 

That's my point.  Concerns about the OL are always legit -- for the Bills and for 31 other NFL teams.  But if a couple of guys who study the game do a deep dive into all 32 teams' lines and come out saying the Bills look to be pretty good, we can take some comfort in that.

 

[Don Otreply]

“Concerns” can be had for every position group, be it backups to cover for injury or potentially poor play, etc etc, these “concerns” are the same for every team, one can pick and choose a player at any position and come up with pros and cons on them, Bates is a common target, he plays well the majority of the time when he has had the opportunity, some here think he is little better than a jag, even though he has proved otherwise repeatedly, Much of these “concerns” are not more than hyperbole in many cases, we see it expressed (the concerns) throughout  out the season on any number of players.. There is damn little to be done about personal acquisitions from now through the season, its time to get comfortable with the players we have, because there’s  not going to be a lot of changes forthcoming…, mid to bottom of the roster guys is likely all we will see moving around.

 

Go Bills!!!

[teef]

i don't know the first thing about the technical side of line play, but i really enjoyed listening to their breakdowns this past weekend.  jim and pat are great.

[LabattBlue]

Jim and Pat are definitely the most enjoyable hosts on Sirius NFLR. 

 

IMO the least enjoyable host….Bruce Murray.  Just comes across as a miserable prick. 
 

Charlie Weis has even grown on me. 😂

Edited May 24, 2022 by BTB

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Which played games, earlier or later in the season? Or are we just picking the ones that suit our arguments 😁👍

You don’t see the irony in that post?

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You don’t see the irony in that post?

Hence the smile and thumbs up 😁👍

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, BTB said:

Jim and Pat are definitely the most enjoyable hosts on Sirius NFLR. 

 

IMO the least enjoyable host….Bruce Murray.  Just comes across as a miserable prick. 
 

Charlie Weis has even grown on me. 😂

Weiss is the worst.  It’s not even close.  Arrogant, not funny, and just an overall prick.  Especially to callers.

[teef]

11 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Weiss is the worst.  It’s not even close.  Arrogant, not funny, and just an overall prick.  Especially to callers.

i think weiss is the worst for me as well.  for starters his voice makes me sleepy, and if i hear him refer to brady as, "tommy" one more time, i'm going to lose my *****.

[machine gun kelly]

I know. Tahmy.  Makes me sick to my stomach.  Thank god we have the extra

point show now so we don’t need to listen to that tool.

[Robert Paulson]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:01 PM, machine gun kelly said:

Weiss is the worst.  It’s not even close.  Arrogant, not funny, and just an overall prick.  Especially to callers.

Tommy Tommy Tommy is all that jerk talks about

[machine gun kelly]

RP,  correction it’s Tahmy. What a tool.

[machine gun kelly]

On 5/25/2022 at 7:07 PM, Robert Paulson said:

Tommy Tommy Tommy is all that jerk talks about

Well the good news is they are on most of the year 10-12pm, but we have the extra point.  The sad thing is Bob Papa is one of the best on NFLR after the MTC guys.  When it was him with Ross Tucker, that opening drive was a great show.  Tuck is a good dude.  I occasionally listen to his podcasts, but not the same as he doesn’t take calls.  That was a real loss for NFLR.

For anyone, I hate doing things halfway and for some reason they didn’t re air the NFCS so I don’t know their rankings. If anyone listened to that show on Thursday, send me a PM or just post the four.  I’ll edit the original post.

[Sharky7337]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:02 AM, Don Otreply said:

There are “some” here who will always believe Beane is an awful GM and can’t assemble a quality O-line or D-line, or RBs room, etc etc etc, it’s like a running joke when they post, 😁👍

He deserves the criticism he has received. The first D line rebuild with Vernon Butler and Quinton Jefferson was garbage. The Zach Moss pick has been, a bust. Keeping TJ Yeldon for years with no use. Trading Wyatt Teller. Drafting Cody Ford.

 

I love beane as a GM but he earned that criticism. I still am glad he's our GM. But he's not perfect at all and has struggled on some position groups.

[Don Otreply]

7 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

He deserves the criticism he has received. The first D line rebuild with Vernon Butler and Quinton Jefferson was garbage. The Zach Moss pick has been, a bust. Keeping TJ Yeldon for years with no use. Trading Wyatt Teller. Drafting Cody Ford.

 

I love beane as a GM but he earned that criticism. I still am glad he's our GM. But he's not perfect at all and has struggled on some position groups.

It’s not about Beane being perfect, no one should be expecting perfect, in which humans don’t do perfect,  there is a difference between making a valid critique, and continuous complaining.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:35 AM, Chandler#81 said:

How can that be? I read right here our OLine sucks and is nearly everybody’s biggest concern and fear.

We have such a knowledgeable group here. 🤦‍♂️

 

just “here”  😆 

 

Quote

However, the rankings sees the other elements of the Bills offense as being just a shade above average. Buffalo earned a score of 3.5 for their running backs, play-caller, and offensive line.

 

Quote

Buffalo’s offensive additions could help the team climb the rankings in the near future. The Bills added Rodger Saffold on the offensive line and drafted the dynamic James Cook as a change-of-pace back to supplement Devin Singletary in the backfield.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/25/cbs-sports-buffalo-bills-second-tier-offense-josh-allen/?itm_source=parsely-api
 

 

[Don Otreply]

40 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line construction is certainly a valid critique…. As is the defensive lines and questionable high round picks on RBs. 

Context…, all those things you mention are part of one of the best teams in the NFL,  and a Super bowl favorite,  think about it from that perspective once in a while…, 

 

(folk really need to get past the idea teams can be perfect, it never happens) 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Tanoros]

On 5/23/2022 at 11:29 PM, GreggTX said:

How are we rated that high? Quessenberry is another Ty Nsehke. Brown and Bates would be backups on most rosters. Morse is a slice above average and both Saffold and Dawkins one more slice above that. All that considered, our OL is pretty average. This evaluation seems quite biased.

 

There were times last season when our RB's had no holes to run through, albeit with injuries. Allen was pressured more times than any other QB (185) and he was hurried way more than any other QB -- 95 times vs 76 for Hurts who was #2. The only significant upgrade was at LG and the RG position is even weaker than last year.

You’re also discounting Dion not being himself for the majority of the season. When healthy, he is the best player on our o-line and when he got better our o-line also did better last year. Sure he isn’t the sole the reason, but it’s also worth noting and not discounting as you did. 
 

It’s probably better to think of the additions we picked in regards to the end of the season o-line play. That was more in line with how our o-line should have played, and will play this year (+ the additions). 

[BillsShredder83]

By far the biggest thing this year is going to be the addition of BeachChairs Kromer. Our peak OL last year should be our new baseline IMO. There's enough continuity. Brown and Bates will have a full TC with starter reps. I feel good about it.

Side not, crazy how quickly KC turned over their OL from one of the worst to (considered) best in AFC

[Thurman#1]

I like our line quite a bit.

 

But tied for 4th in the league with only four teams left to be evaluated? IMO that's a bit high for the Bills OL.

 

I do agree with them that, strongly, that continuity has helped here and should continue to be a positive factor.

 

The last three or four games of the year, basically after Bates came in and Dawkins started playing at his capacity, this line looked like a top ten group. Throw in the rest of the year and it would be fair to put them as below average. 

 

But since the starters look likely (not surely, but likely) to be closer to the end of the year group than any other combo, it's fair to be really hopeful.

 

But 4th? Not based on what we've seen, I think.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Thurman#1

[machine gun kelly]

Guys, my point is they don’t have skin in the game, have an objective formula to assess and they are incredibly detailed looking at a lot of parameters.   A lot of opinions are armchair QB’s who didn’t take the time to put them on a chalk board vs, 31 other teams. I’ve already detailed a bunch of the stats they use.  Listen to the shows for all 8 divisions and then comment.

 

Im listening right now on RBs for Memorial Day and they rated our RBs even with Cook as a little over avg., to just avg.  15 out of 20.  That’s not even close to the top 10.  These guys aren’t doing the Bills hype tour like some analysts as we have a fantastic team on paper.  Then again McD was right, games aren’t won on paper.  Some here are just not looking at the line objectively. Listen to all 8 shows and then make you’re own opinion.   With rewind, you can skip to each team only download so you don’t have to listen to the calls.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

They just gave the top 5. Pat had the Bills at 3, Jim at 4.

 

Both had Detroit at 5. Jim had NO at 3 Pat had them at 4. Both had the Eagles at 2 and KC at 1.

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Guys, my point is they don’t have skin in the game, have an objective formula to assess and they are incredibly detailed looking at a lot of parameters.   A lot of opinions are armchair QB’s who didn’t take the time to put them on a chalk board vs, 31 other teams. I’ve already detailed a bunch of the stats they use.  Listen to the shows for all 8 divisions and then comment.

 

Im listening right now on RBs for Memorial Day and they rated our RBs even with Cook as a little over avg., to just avg.  15 out of 20.  That’s not even close to the top 10.  These guys aren’t doing the Bills hype tour like some analysts as we have a fantastic team on paper.  Then again McD was right, games aren’t won on paper.  Some here are just not looking at the line objectively. Listen to all 8 shows and then make you’re own opinion.   With rewind, you can skip to each team only download so you don’t have to listen to the calls.

They haven't done the Jerks yet but they have the Fish at 17 and Cheatriots at 15, tied with the Bills.

[machine gun kelly]

12 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

They just gave the top 5. Pat had the Bills at 3, Jim at 4.

 

Both had Detroit at 5. Jim had NO at 3 Pat had them at 4. Both had the Eagles at 2 and KC at 1.

They haven't done the Jerks yet but they have the Fish at 17 and Cheatriots at 15, tied with the Bills.

I listened, but was busy for the holiday and wasn’t able to update the final five.  Thanks.

 

I think that was fair at 3rd or 4th.  I would’ve even been happy at 5th.  They won’t make the top 10 at RB, which is also fair.  Their point yesterday was Cool hasn’t proven anything yet and they are right.

 

They had us right at the top at QB last year not Just for Allen, but depth with MT.  I expect the same with Keenum.

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Guys, my point is they don’t have skin in the game, have an objective formula to assess and they are incredibly detailed looking at a lot of parameters.   A lot of opinions are armchair QB’s who didn’t take the time to put them on a chalk board vs, 31 other teams. I’ve already detailed a bunch of the stats they use.  Listen to the shows for all 8 divisions and then comment.

 

Im listening right now on RBs for Memorial Day and they rated our RBs even with Cook as a little over avg., to just avg.  15 out of 20.  That’s not even close to the top 10.  These guys aren’t doing the Bills hype tour like some analysts as we have a fantastic team on paper.  Then again McD was right, games aren’t won on paper.  Some here are just not looking at the line objectively. Listen to all 8 shows and then make you’re own opinion.   With rewind, you can skip to each team only download so you don’t have to listen to the calls.

 

But their objective formula is not the only one out there. I have seen the Bills ranked 9th, 14th, 17th and 18th in recent weeks by other formulas. To be honest 9th still feels high to me. 3rd or 4th feels bonkers. You are taking a line that was bottom half of the NFL for most of last season, adding one new starter in a Roger Saffold, who gave up 26 pressures in 2021 (21st worst pressure rate among the 68 qualifying guards in the NFL - that is bottom third) and gambling a lot on Ryan Bates who has 6 career starts (and actually gave up 4 QB pressures across those 6 starts). 

 

Are there reasons to be positive about our line getting better? There are. Dawkins healthy and Kromer back being the main two.... but whatever ranking system spits out 3rd or 4th best line in the NFL should, at this stage, be treated with a healthy dose of scepticism.