RocCityRoller Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Golden said: There’s money to be “had” if they restructure Allen’s contract. Bates is reported to have elevated the communication on the O line as well as he is solid in pass pro. Run blocking maybe not so much. Now, we have Kromer on board. You’ve got to believe without tendering any draft pick comp on Bates that the Bills FO has a plan B, C & D in place. Right guard & CB are the 2 “red flags” right now. They let Wallace go, it does not appear that he “out priced” them. I’m sure there’s a plan B, C & D in place there as well. I always reserve the right to be wrong, however I’d find it hard to believe that Beane “throws mud at the wall & hopes that it sticks” when it comes to these areas of need. I know he wants to go BPA in the upcoming draft. Generally agree with most of your post. I do wish I had your faith in the 'grand plan' at OL. I still believe that DL/OL are the glaring weaknesses in talent evaluation and coaching on this staff. Hopeful Kromer helps fix the OL coaching. As for run blocking, Bates is no pancake blocker, agreed, but just off the top of my head, Singletary's two rushing TDs vs New England in the playoffs were behind Bates. The first, near the goal line, was between Bates and Dawkins. The second was a traditional pulling guard play (the classic Washington Redskins, and Alabama pulling guard play) where Bates pulled and took out Van Noy at the point of attack. Result was a @20 yd TD rush. None of those pulling concepts were really used effectively until Bates was put in because Mongo/Boettger and Ford can't pull. Bates can. TD #1: Bates (71) identifies Jamie Collins (58) run blitz and stands him up, gets him off balance and pushed him back. Dawkins ends up pancaking Judon. TD. TD#2: Really beautifully executed Pull play, one of Buffalo's best executed runs all season. McKenzie sent in motion and engages JC Jackson. Gilliam (41) has a great block on Collins (58), and Bates (71) pulls and stands up Van Noy (53) at the point of attack. Singletary has a clear gap to run through. Bates started the last 3 games in the regular season (NE/ ATL/ NYJ), and then 2 in the playoffs. 4 of Singletary's 7 rushing TDs came in those 5 games. Singletary's only 100 yard rushing game in 2021 came against Atlanta (23-110-2 TD 4.78 YPC) where Bates started Singletary tacked on 3 more rushing TDs in the playoffs, so 7 of his 10 rushing TDs was with Bates as a starter. I'm not saying Bates is an All Pro, but Bates is a good pass blocker and effective run blocker. If I have JA I want good pass blockers. If my RB starts getting more rushing TDs with him in the line up, then all the better. Starting Saffold at LG and a mix of Ford/Mancz as my pre draft competition at LG seems bad. It's not mentioned but Boettger a safety valve at OG the past few sesons is not under contract, he is a UFA and is coming off an Achilles. Even if Buffalo drafts an RG, then you have a 1st yr RG next to a 2nd yr RT, and as well as Brown exceeded expectations, he was no stud. Plenty of mistakes covered by JA. Not sure I want to put a rookie next to him to hold down the right side of the line. Mancz is an ok backup at C (he started a full season at C for Houston in 2016) Everyone has opinions, I think the way the RFA tags were or were not applied to Bates is showing differences among fan willingness to take on risk as much as anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Has anyone mentioned FA Guard, 5 time Pro Bowler and former Carolina Panther Trai Turner… his last contract with Pittsburgh was 1 year at 3 Million. Going to be 29 years old to start the season. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Just now, Magnum Force said: Has anyone mentioned FA Guard, 5 time Pro Bowler and former Carolina Panther Trai Turner… his last contract with Pittsburgh was 1 year at 3 Million. Going to be 29 years old to start the season. Yeah, unfortunately it was just me mentioning him and not beane! I think he’d be a great cheap fit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pags24 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Not sure if Turner would be cheap....I read his contract projection to be ballpark $6 Mill / year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Force Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, NewEra said: Yeah, unfortunately it was just me mentioning him and not beane! I think he’d be a great cheap fit. If the price is right. Edited March 25, 2022 by Magnum Force 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Golden said: Well said, which brings us right back to why did they only do right of first refusal as opposed to draft pick comp. Here is where we see their perspective on this most clearly. Beane is thorough, you know he has other plans in place. This is what many seem to be missing. Since Beane keeps his cards close to his chest, they are very hard to read. So far he has earned my trust. 32 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Generally agree with most of your post. I do wish I had your faith in the 'grand plan' at OL. I still believe that DL/OL are the glaring weaknesses in talent evaluation and coaching on this staff. Hopeful Kromer helps fix the OL coaching. As for run blocking, Bates is no pancake blocker, agreed, but just off the top of my head, Singletary's two rushing TDs vs New England in the playoffs were behind Bates. The first, near the goal line, was between Bates and Dawkins. The second was a traditional pulling guard play (the classic Washington Redskins, and Alabama pulling guard play) where Bates pulled and took out Van Noy at the point of attack. Result was a @20 yd TD rush. None of those pulling concepts were really used effectively until Bates was put in because Mongo/Boettger and Ford can't pull. Bates can. TD #1: Bates (71) identifies Jamie Collins (58) run blitz and stands him up, gets him off balance and pushed him back. Dawkins ends up pancaking Judon. TD. TD#2: Really beautifully executed Pull play, one of Buffalo's best executed runs all season. McKenzie sent in motion and engages JC Jackson. Gilliam (41) has a great block on Collins (58), and Bates (71) pulls and stands up Van Noy (53) at the point of attack. Singletary has a clear gap to run through. Bates started the last 3 games in the regular season (NE/ ATL/ NYJ), and then 2 in the playoffs. 4 of Singletary's 7 rushing TDs came in those 5 games. Singletary's only 100 yard rushing game in 2021 came against Atlanta (23-110-2 TD 4.78 YPC) where Bates started Singletary tacked on 3 more rushing TDs in the playoffs, so 7 of his 10 rushing TDs was with Bates as a starter. I'm not saying Bates is an All Pro, but Bates is a good pass blocker and effective run blocker. If I have JA I want good pass blockers. If my RB starts getting more rushing TDs with him in the line up, then all the better. I've liked Bates since he first came here. He seemed to show nice versatility and adequate competence for the most part. I never understood why Boettger got the call over Bates. Then again, I have very limited information compared to the coaches. While I hate to see him go, seeing as how his inclusion in the OL seemed to make it much better, I understand not being able to match the Bears' offer. I have to trust Beane having other quality options if he is allowed to leave. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said: I read 6.5 on the internet somewhere. Rumor for sure, but I don’t see us matching that. But really, I don’t they would’ve bothered making the offer at all unless they thought it was a good one. Overpaying for average talent is how bad teams stay bad. That said the bears don’t have much choice but to overpay at this point in their rebuild. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Overpaying for average talent is how bad teams stay bad. That said the bears don’t have much choice but to overpay at this point in their rebuild. We remember the time like it was yesterday 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said: Bring back Bates! We need the production and depth on the o-line. It’s already been casted with another fish on the line. Have to find more bates. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Overpaying for average talent is how bad teams stay bad. That said the bears don’t have much choice but to overpay at this point in their rebuild. Yeah, I’m not saying we should match. It’s a weird move to offer a guy a nice contract for that little of a starting sample. But like you said, they might not have any other choice. With that said, I’m hoping Beane found out what they offered and is looking for a better/comparable option for the same amount of money. Not really sure what’s out there at this point. But I’d really hate to go into the draft with a hole at guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pags24 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 What is overpaying for Bates? Some here think that $4MM is overpaying, I disagree. The average G in the NFL makes approx $4MM/year. Given the versatility/performance I'd put Bates slightly ahead of that figure at about $5MM/year as a fair price. The sample size is small so yes, you're taking a bit of risk, but there's risk in every contract. I believe in Bates and his future. He's young, versatile, fits our pass heavy scheme, good already and I believe will only get better 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pags24 said: What is overpaying for Bates? Some here think that $4MM is overpaying, I disagree. The average G in the NFL makes approx $4MM/year. Given the versatility/performance I'd put Bates slightly ahead of that figure at about $5MM/year as a fair price. The sample size is small so yes, you're taking a bit of risk, but there's risk in every contract. I believe in Bates and his future. He's young, versatile, fits our pass heavy scheme, good already and I believe will only get better While I feel $5M is too much for Bates I think it's more about contract length and guaranteed money. That's a risk with a player with limited starts. Once DTs get tape on a guy he has to improve just to keep up. We all are eager to see what is in the contract offered by the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: Can Tommy Doyle play guard? I have talked about it a bit on here, but I see no reason why he can’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Saffold is the 23rd highest paid guard under contract with a 2022 cap hit of 4.2 million. Wyatt Teller's cap hit in 2022 is 4.876 million. We cut Feliciano and the giants signed him for 2.9mm. Average 2022 salary for the 96 highest paid guards is $3.1MM [32 teams 3 per team]. If we lose Bates, do we make a play for Duvernay-Tardif, being close to Canada, he can do his doctoring in the off season. Pats BTW have the third highest graded guard, Onwenu playing on a rookie contract. He started as a rookie. 6th round pick Edited March 25, 2022 by BearNorth 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I think it’s pretty obvious Beane does not think nearly as much of Bates as most of TBD seems to. He didn’t make a mistake, he deliberately made a low tender offer. He wasn’t trying to sneak Bates under the radar, he doesn’t care that much if someone wants to make Bates a high offer we don’t want to match. I think Bates is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 39 minutes ago, RunTheBall said: I think it’s pretty obvious Beane does not think nearly as much of Bates as most of TBD seems to. He didn’t make a mistake, he deliberately made a low tender offer. He wasn’t trying to sneak Bates under the radar, he doesn’t care that much if someone wants to make Bates a high offer we don’t want to match. I think Bates is gone and I am ok with that....just need to see the plan for making protection of our QB a priority. Bates is a name.....I care about the fact that he has movement skills and does his job without making mistakes. Find another one (or three) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBuffalo Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Rodger Saffold was signed to play LG prior to signing anything “shiny”. It was literally the first thing they did along with extending Mitch Morse. Ah! I stand corrected. That dude any good! Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateHookerMD Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 How is it possible we dont actually know the terms yet? Or did I just miss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I wonder if (and if so, how much) Beane conferred with Kromer when deciding how to handle the Bates situation, and the rest of the O-line in this offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: I wonder if (and if so, how much) Beane conferred with Kromer when deciding how to handle the Bates situation, and the rest of the O-line in this offseason? I assume one of the first things Kromer did was evaluate the film and traits of everyone on the OL, as well as the available FAs, as it relates to his zone heavy scheme and provide his assessment to Beane and McDermott Edited March 25, 2022 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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