Pass interference calls/non calls

[Hermes]

Bills lost. Whatever.. 

 

They didn't close out the game when they had the chance, time to move on.

 

Anyway, the PI the penalties clearly affected the Bills more than the Bucs to say the least.  (My issue isn't that the Bills didn't get the calls or not. That's entirely irrelevant.)  It's the players reactions to what they perceived as penalties.

 

On the long ball to Diggs if he would've fought through it, instead of looking for a flag, he might've had a chance at the ball and possibly a TD.

 

On the fade to Diggs in the EZ on the 3rd before the FG to tie, he had pretty much no chance with the defender grabbing and essentially tackling him when the ball is in the air.

 

On the DPI that set the Bucs up in OT, not sure if it was Dane or Levi, he got in good position but got pulled away and managed to get a call against him.

 

In all of the circumstances the Bills players needed to be more aggressive. Diggs lack of aggressiveness when he let himself get pulled away from the play. He either needed to press the issue on the first and grab the DB by the arm and literally throw him off of his jersey. Force the issue with the refs and make them throw a flag. The EZ throw was a travesty but if Diggs sees that he isn't going to get the ball there, due to interference or not, then get physical with the DB. Take his helmet and smash it in the turf. Again, make the refs throw the flag. On the DPI in OT if the DB would've fought for the ball more instead of just trying to defend against a catch he might be had a pick or at least shown how much he was being prevented from making a play.

 

In all of these instances if the Bills would've pressed the issue and been more aggressive it would've led to something happening differently. Would anyone have been mad if Diggs got an OPI on either of his plays bc he retaliated? What it the DB would've fought through contact and made a great day on the ball and ended up with a turnover.

 

At the end of the day football is an emotional game and sometimes you need to let those emotions flow through.

[LeGOATski]

Okay, Mr. Joe Fan on the message board... It's easy to sit here and say that they "should've been more aggressive."

 

They're doing what they're trained to do. Levi played that pass exactly how he's coached to play it. Diggs is taking the steps necessary to get to the ball exactly how he's trained to do it. You can't expect him to turn into Megatron during the play. It happens extremely fast and everything is so instinctual. 

 

What we should expect is the refs to call a consistent game.

[Big Turk]

Wallace was not PI according to former NFL ref and NBC rules analyst Terry McAulay because of Evans initiating the contact and especially considering what they let the Bucs get away with repeatedly against Diggs

[SUNTANBILLS FAN]

This is just horrible inexcusable reffing! The players played there hearts out to be screwed by this 

[DCofNC]

Diggs is off this year, I don’t know why, but the guy caught everything last year, battled hard, this year, specifically the last 3 games, he has looked awful.  He’s not going after balls, he got hit in the arm on a perfect bomb, he didn’t even get his head around on the OT play that ended our chances.  I don’t know what the deal is, but he’s not there this year.

[Evian]

The officials blew multiple calls but the Bills had the ball in OT and did nothing. 

 

I am not even sure officiating matters with the Bills. They find ways to lose close games. Over and over and over. 

 

[Hermes]

6 minutes ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

This is just horrible inexcusable reffing! The players played there hearts out to be screwed by this 

It sucks that the refs didn't call it. For sure. But what happens if Diggs turns around on the first one and shoves the defender to the ground. What do the refs do at that point? 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

This is just horrible inexcusable reffing! The players played there hearts out to be screwed by this 

I don't see many Bucs games but I'm curious how often they are allowed to get away with that much holding. They got away with it a lot in the Super Bowl but KC got away with it against Bills in AFCCG. Anyway it's beyond frustrating..

[Hermes]

It's not about what the refs called or didn't call. It's about the aggressiveness of the Bills players in those situations. Idgaf if Diggs gets called for a penalty, send that dude to the ground and make him pay for grabbing you like that.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Hermes said:

It sucks that the refs didn't call it. For sure. But what happens if Diggs turns around on the first one and shoves the defender to the ground. What do the refs do at that point? 

You know what they'd do. 

[Hermes]

13 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Okay, Mr. Joe Fan on the message board... It's easy to sit here and say that they "should've been more aggressive."

 

They're doing what they're trained to do. Levi played that pass exactly how he's coached to play it. Diggs is taking the steps necessary to get to the ball exactly how he's trained to do it. You can't expect him to turn into Megatron during the play. It happens extremely fast and everything is so instinctual. 

 

What we should expect is the refs to call a consistent game.

You know what I get it. I've played sports at high levels throughout my life, rugby, not Football, but man even if it takes getting a penalty do something. Diggs reacted enough to get his hands out to look for a call, he could've done something else at that point too, no?

[Ya Digg?]

Wait I’m confused-you want the Bills players to get a penalty called on them because they didn’t get a DPI called? Move back the potentially game tying field goal and make it a harder kick? I’m not even trying to be a jerk about this, I literally don’t understand what you’re trying to say

[Hermes]

3 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

You know what they'd do. 

How much would a flag there have hurt the Bills? In any instance it would've been inconsequential. They either would've gotten another shot or a 15yard penalty. So what!?

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, Hermes said:

It's not about what the refs called or didn't call. It's about the aggressiveness of the Bills players in those situations. Idgaf if Diggs gets called for a penalty, send that dude to the ground and make him pay for grabbing you like that.

What benefit does this have? 
 

The Bills lose yards and now the refs are focused on them committing penalties??

[Hermes]

2 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Wait I’m confused-you want the Bills players to get a penalty called on them because they didn’t get a DPI called? Move back the potentially game tying field goal and make it a harder kick? I’m not even trying to be a jerk about this, I literally don’t understand what you’re trying to say

If they call a penalty it's not a loss of downs and they get another shot at the game winning score 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, Hermes said:

Bills lost. Whatever.. 

 

They didn't close out the game when they had the chance, time to move on.

 

Anyway, the PI the penalties clearly affected the Bills more than the Bucs to say the least.  (My issue isn't that the Bills didn't get the calls or not. That's entirely irrelevant.)  It's the players reactions to what they perceived as penalties.

 

On the long ball to Diggs if he would've fought through it, instead of looking for a flag, he might've had a chance at the ball and possibly a TD.

 

On the fade to Diggs in the EZ on the 3rd before the FG to tie, he had pretty much no chance with the defender grabbing and essentially tackling him when the ball is in the air.

 

On the DPI that set the Bucs up in OT, not sure if it was Dane or Levi, he got in good position but got pulled away and managed to get a call against him.

 

In all of the circumstances the Bills players needed to be more aggressive. Diggs lack of aggressiveness when he let himself get pulled away from the play. He either needed to press the issue on the first and grab the DB by the arm and literally throw him off of his jersey. Force the issue with the refs and make them throw a flag. The EZ throw was a travesty but if Diggs sees that he isn't going to get the ball there, due to interference or not, then get physical with the DB. Take his helmet and smash it in the turf. Again, make the refs throw the flag. On the DPI in OT if the DB would've fought for the ball more instead of just trying to defend against a catch he might be had a pick or at least shown how much he was being prevented from making a play.

 

In all of these instances if the Bills would've pressed the issue and been more aggressive it would've led to something happening differently. Would anyone have been mad if Diggs got an OPI on either of his plays bc he retaliated? What it the DB would've fought through contact and made a great day on the ball and ended up with a turnover.

 

At the end of the day football is an emotional game and sometimes you need to let those emotions flow through.

Levi Wallace played that ball absolutely perfectly to avoid a penalty…it was an incredible play. Diggs lost the ball in the air I think when the defender started ripping his jersey off…the ball didn’t land in stride with him he got rerouted a bit it looked like.  Not to mention that is the most obvious pass interference call in the history of the world that the defender clearly did intentionally to save a td and it is absolutely laughable it wasn’t called and twice as laughable we are trying to blame diggs for it. That play had the Robey-Coleman effect in my eyes…it was such a completely obvious PI that the fact that it wasn’t called led me to believe there was some obscure rule I did not know lol

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Hermes]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

What benefit does this have? 
 

The Bills lose yards and now the refs are focused on them committing penalties??

Send a message to the defense that they're either going to have to be more physical or back off. Its psychological. The refs at that point are irrelevant and if they do throw a flag. Odds are they'd look at the whole play again rather than just a penalty on Diggs

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Levi Wallace played that ball absolutely perfectly to avoid a penalty…it was an incredible play. Diggs lost the ball in the air I think when the defender started ripping his jersey off…the ball didn’t land in stride with him he got rerouted a bit it looked like.  Not to mention that is the most obvious pass interference call in the history of the world that the defender clearly did intentionally to save a td and it is absolutely laughable it wasn’t called and twice as laughable we are trying to blame diggs for it 

Not entirely. But the team at that point must've known they weren't going to get any calls going their way. So force the issue. Make the refs throw the flag and from what we've seen in the NFL the offense generally gets the benefit of the doubt

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 minutes ago, Hermes said:

It's not about what the refs called or didn't call. It's about the aggressiveness of the Bills players in those situations. Idgaf if Diggs gets called for a penalty, send that dude to the ground and make him pay for grabbing you like that.

But it is about what the refs do or don't do.  The players have an expectation they'll call the game fair and square.  Whether they call it tight or lose.  Call it fair and even.  They shouldn't have to embellish or take a dive because the officials fail to do their job correctly.  Last night the ref's failed the game and they poorly represented their profession.      

[JGMcD2]

Just now, Hermes said:

Send a message to the defense that they're either going to have to be more physical or back off. Its psychological. The refs at that point are irrelevant and if they do throw a flag. Odds are they'd look at the whole play again rather than just a penalty on Diggs

That’s not going to stop a thing unless the referees throw a flag. 
 

Nobody is going to stop being physical because Diggs is physical back. 

[Hermes]

4 minutes ago, Hermes said:

If they call a penalty it's not a loss of downs and they get another shot at the game winning score 

So either the kick is at the same field position or the bills get another shot at the end zone (and possibly a further kick, which is a chip shot for Bass)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

You know what they'd do. 

That would’ve made the call on Wallace even funnier assuming that still happens in OT. evans was dangerously close to offensive pass interference when Wallace had the ball played perfectly and a shot at a game winning int …Brady threw an absolutely terrible ball there and was bailed out big time. It’s really the combination of that no call on diggs and that Wallace call in OT that grinds my gears…how do both those calls go against the wrong team

4 minutes ago, Hermes said:

Send a message to the defense that they're either going to have to be more physical or back off. Its psychological. The refs at that point are irrelevant and if they do throw a flag. Odds are they'd look at the whole play again rather than just a penalty on Diggs

Not entirely. But the team at that point must've known they weren't going to get any calls going their way. So force the issue. Make the refs throw the flag and from what we've seen in the NFL the offense generally gets the benefit of the doubt

Are you talking about diggs or Wallace? I was talking about the first half diggs play where the defender stretched his jersey 20 yards lol the one late in the game was pretty awful as well but that first half play was criminal 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Hermes]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

But it is about what the refs do or don't do.  The players have an expectation they'll call the game fair and square.  Whether they call it tight or lose.  Call it fair and even.  They shouldn't have to embellish or take a dive because the officials fail to do their job correctly.  Last night the ref's failed the game and they poorly represented their profession.      

The Bills player should know what the expectation is at this point. They are going to be on the bad end of things. Deal with it

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That’s not going to stop a thing unless the referees throw a flag. 
 

Nobody is going to stop being physical because Diggs is physical back. 

If they get punched in the head they wouldn

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, Evian said:

The officials blew multiple calls but the Bills had the ball in OT and did nothing. 

 

I am not even sure officiating matters with the Bills. They find ways to lose close games. Over and over and over. 

 

 

Well it helps that the final of the 3 pics of Diggs being manhandled was on the 3rs down in OT

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Hermes said:

The Bills player should know what the expectation is at this point. They are going to be on the bad end of things. Deal with it

I’m not sure how you deal with dragging a defender with you that is holding you as obviously as possible haha that might literally be the worst no call I’ve ever seen…the one to end the game was bad also but Davis did a somewhat nice acting job to make it look like they tangled feet when really he just straight up lost a handcheck battle and then ripped diggs down by his jersey. That one doesn’t make me terribly mad until combined with the ridiculous OT call 

7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That’s not going to stop a thing unless the referees throw a flag. 
 

Nobody is going to stop being physical because Diggs is physical back. 

I’m not understanding what he’s trying to say…the bills should commit more penalties when the refs are only calling penalties on one team?  

[Evian]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Well it helps that the final of the 3 pics of Diggs being manhandled was on the 3rs down in OT

 

Who cares. They had the ball in OT and could have ended the game. They ran 3 plays for 6 yards and punted. It is sad people keep making excuses for this team. 

[Hermes]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That would’ve made the call on Wallace even funnier assuming that still happens in OT. evans was dangerously close to offensive pass interference when Wallace had the ball played perfectly and a shot at a game winning int …Brady threw an absolutely terrible ball there and was bailed out big time. It’s really the combination of that no call on diggs and that Wallace call in OT that grinds my gears…how do both those calls go against the wrong team

Are you talking about diggs or Wallace? I was talking about the first half diggs play where the defender stretched his jersey 20 yards lol the one late in the game was pretty awful as well but that first half play was criminal 

Yeah, the Diggs play. He had the awareness to throw his hands out for a flag, at that point, plant, pivot, and give a two hand shove

 

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That’s not going to stop a thing unless the referees throw a flag. 
 

Nobody is going to stop being physical because Diggs is physical back. 

 

I think Diggs can do two things better. Either fight harder through the contact and try to catch the ball, or go to the ground when the guy has a hold of his jersey. 

 

It's like he half tries to fight through, half tries to throw his hands up to get a call. Do one or the other better. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

For me it’s the intent of the defenders that makes me angry…we can harp on the fade call but diggs beat his man and Davis’ only hope was to drag diggs down with him and maybe save the game on a goal line stand. You can even see him pound his hand on the ground like sh*t I just blew the game.  And that earlier jersey rip of diggs he beat everyone and was going to be open for a huge gain. People are talking like the defense was in a good position and it was a tossup call that didn’t go in our favor. These were all absolute desperation holds that I’m sure the defense was even surprised they weren’t called.

1 minute ago, Hermes said:

Yeah, the Diggs play. He had the awareness to throw his hands out for a flag, at that point, plant, pivot, and give a two hand shove

 

In order to catch the ball? Pi absolutely should’ve been called there and you give away absolutely any hope of that if you do that…that’s insanity. 

[Hermes]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’m not sure how you deal with dragging a defender with you that is holding you as obviously as possible haha that might literally be the worst no call I’ve ever seen…the one to end the game was bad also but Davis did a somewhat nice acting job to make it look like they tangled feet when really he just straight up lost a handcheck battle and then ripped diggs down by his jersey. That one doesn’t make me terribly mad until combined with the ridiculous OT call 

I’m not understanding what he’s trying to say…the bills should commit more penalties when the refs are only calling penalties on one team?  

I'm saying that if the refs are gonna let it be physical be physical back. At that point "F" the rules and give the defense what they're giving you. If they throw a flag and then it's on the offense, at that point it's even more egregious what the defense did and didn't get called for. There's replay in modern sports so anyone with eyes would be able to see even moreso how that particular play, played out.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

I think Diggs can do two things better. Either fight harder through the contact and try to catch the ball, or go to the ground when the guy has a hold of his jersey. 

 

It's like he half tries to fight through, half tries to throw his hands up to get a call. Do one or the other better. 

That play at the end of regulation was a little weird looking but there’s enough officials at enough angles where I’m sure they saw it properly and just swallowed their whistles to ‘not impact the game’ but that’s what they precisely ended up doing 

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That play at the end of regulation was a little weird looking but there’s enough officials at enough angles where I’m sure they saw it properly and just swallowed their whistles to ‘not impact the game’ but that’s what they precisely ended up doing 

 

Yeah, but if Diggs goes to the ground with the guy who's on his knees with a fistful of jersey, there's no way they can't call that. 

 

But he fought through it enough to throw his hands up and beg the refs for a call. 

 

He has to go to ground with the defender while contact is being made. Not after...

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Motorin'

[RochesterLifer]

24 minutes ago, Hermes said:

You know what I get it. I've played sports at high levels throughout my life, rugby, not Football, but man even if it takes getting a penalty do something. Diggs reacted enough to get his hands out to look for a call, he could've done something else at that point too, no?

I understand what you’re saying. But, you are mistaken with a failed analogy. I played rugby for (f***, I’m old) 30 years. With one official for 30 players on the field, rugby relies on player enforcement. That doesn’t work in the NFL. Seven referees and video review sees and calls everything. Diggs can’t rake the defender. It is a different reality. 
 

All that said, the rugger inside me wishes Diggs had stomped his sorry @$$.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Yeah, but if Diggs goes to the ground with the guy who's on his knees with a fistful of jersey, there's no way that can't call that. 

 

Bit he fought through it enough to throw his hands up and beg the refs for a call. 

 

He has to go to ground with the defender while contact is being made. Not after. 

I think they are trying to sell it to us as ‘their feet got tangled’ so I’m not sure it would’ve mattered but maybe …I do agree it was a bizarre looking play that diggs beat his man so badly that the guy ripped at his jersey with both hands and still couldn’t bring him down. Defender is even stunned he got away with that one guaranteed 

[Hermes]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

For me it’s the intent of the defenders that makes me angry…we can harp on the fade call but diggs beat his man and Davis’ only hope was to drag diggs down with him and maybe save the game on a goal line stand. You can even see him pound his hand on the ground like sh*t I just blew the game.  And that earlier jersey rip of diggs he beat everyone and was going to be open for a huge gain. People are talking like the defense was in a good position and it was a tossup call that didn’t go in our favor. These were all absolute desperation holds that I’m sure the defense was even surprised they weren’t called.

In order to catch the ball? Pi absolutely should’ve been called there and you give away absolutely any hope of that if you do that…that’s insanity. 

I don't disagree. It was absolutely DPI, or holding at the least. I'm saying Diggs should've either turned and thrown a shoulder or aggressively attacked the ball.

 

Instead, he chose to put his hands out to B word to the refs. Either option at that point would've been preferable. 

 

I'm sure McD peaches not to do that but at some point just let the emotion flow over. Utilize that energy to do something rather than nothing

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yeah, but if Diggs goes to the ground with the guy who's on his knees with a fistful of jersey, there's no way that can't call that. 

 

Bit he fought through it enough to throw his hands up and beg the refs for a call. 

 

He has to go to ground with the defender while contact is being made. Not after. 

Exactly. The Bills can't just look for these calls, bc they just don't get them. Do something different and see what happens. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Hermes said:

I don't disagree. It was absolutely DPI, or holding at the least. I'm saying Diggs should've either turned and thrown a shoulder or aggressively attacked the ball.

 

Instead, he chose to put his hands out to B word to the refs. Either option at that point would've been preferable. 

 

I'm sure McD peaches not to do that but at some point just let the emotion flow over. Utilize that energy to do something rather than nothing

I think the hands up thing is a common move to show you’re being held and draw attention to it…I think it was more about davis doing such a pathetic job tripping on his own two feet and going to the ground diving at diggs jersey that ended up giving the refs ‘enough’ ammo to call it questionable and move on.  It looked like diggs had to have something to do with davis falling when he very much didn’t 

[BillsfaninSB]

It should have been a defensive penalty but that fade pass to Diggs was a stupid call.

 

 

[Hermes]

4 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

I understand what you’re saying. But, you are mistaken with a failed analogy. I played rugby for (f***, I’m old) 30 years. With one official for 30 players on the field, rugby relies on player enforcement. That doesn’t work in the NFL. Seven referees and video review sees and calls everything. Diggs can’t rake the defender. It is a different reality. 
 

All that said, the rugger inside me wishes Diggs had stomped his sorry @$$.

Fair enough. The games are truly two different beasts, however, the physicality isn't lost in translation. Diggs should've turned and given the defender something bc the refs would've been forced to throw a flag since there's so many of them. They would've got into their little huddle and discussed the whole play and why the flag was thrown. The replay would've been looked at and in all honesty I doubt Diggs would've gotten a flag. If, at that point, they looked at the review, and saw the jersey tug which led to a Diggs response, could they not call it on the defense. The NFL would look even worse than it does right now in regards to officiating

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Hermes said:

I don't disagree. It was absolutely DPI, or holding at the least. I'm saying Diggs should've either turned and thrown a shoulder or aggressively attacked the ball.

 

Instead, he chose to put his hands out to B word to the refs. Either option at that point would've been preferable. 

 

I'm sure McD peaches not to do that but at some point just let the emotion flow over. Utilize that energy to do something rather than nothing

Exactly. The Bills can't just look for these calls, bc they just don't get them. Do something different and see what happens. 

I mean in the heat of the moment like that I’m not sure how much thought you get to put into how to make it most look like you’re getting held to be fair lol he doesn’t get to see himself from 37 broadcast angles.  Shoving the defender when you know you’re due an obvious dpi call in a game where your team is getting no calls to begin with doesn’t make a lot of sense to me…in the moment how does he know he’s gonna be victimized by an awful no call…100% they’re calling OPI if he does that and he’s likely not catching the ball anyway 

[Mr. WEO]

I was wondering if more than an hour would pass without another ref/penalties thread would be birthed.

 

whew!!

[Ya Digg?]

33 minutes ago, Hermes said:

If they call a penalty it's not a loss of downs and they get another shot at the game winning score 

But you are saying that because the Bills didn’t get the DPI called for them that someone should have smashed a Tampa bay players helmet into the ground…you can be aggressive without being stupid-getting a personal foul would’ve been stupid, not aggressive