Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tommy Callahan]

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

This war was started by Russia, not the US. 

Correct. at no time did we support the euro maiden.  

 

 

[ChiGoose]

5 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Correct. at no time did we support the euro maiden.  

 

 

Ah, so you’re just looking to find some way to blame America, huh?

[L Ron Burgundy]

7 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

yeah. cause us supporting/funding/starting wars all over the world for the last half a century is some grand conspiracy. 

 

The MIC and its funding of our politicians is pure conspiracy.  like crazy. no way does that happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have done a lot of that, it hasn't always been hidden well.  You sure fell for us being involved in euromaidan though and also the violence in east Ukraine, the latter which is pure Russian propaganda.   Ukrainians are killing ethnic Russians!  You mean...

The separatists paid by Russia?  No  no the Russians said they were attacking innocents...give me a break.  It doesn't even make sense.

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

15 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

We have done a lot of that, it hasn't always been hidden well.  You sure fell for us being involved in euromaidan though and also the violence in east Ukraine, the latter which is pure Russian propaganda.   Ukrainians are killing ethnic Russians!  You mean...

The separatists paid by Russia?  No  no the Russians said they were attacking innocents...give me a break.  It doesn't even make sense.

 

 

I hope every day that Ukraine wins today.  And like so many before.  It's about geopolitics and energy.  

 

And honestly.  Do you even care your in 💯 alignment with Rino's/war hawks on this?

 

I think Clemence had a quote on stopping/assessing when you catch yourself flowing a group.  

 

Just saying 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Chris farley

[ChiGoose]

43 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

I hope every day that Ukraine wins today.  And like so many before.  It's about geopolitics and energy.  

 

And honestly.  Do you even care your in 💯 alignment with Rino's on this?

 

I think Clemence had a quote on stopping/assessing when you catch yourself flowing a group.  

 

Just saying 

Do you ever think that doing the right thing is the right thing to do even if people you normally disagree with join your side?

 

Just saying. 

[Tommy Callahan]

12 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Do you ever think that doing the right thing is the right thing to do even if people you normally disagree with join your side?

 

Just saying. 

The right thing usually does not involve people being incinerated, killed, named, displaced. 

 

It's crazy reading the left sound like the hawks of yesteryears.  The mic thanks you for the profit margins .

[L Ron Burgundy]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:29 AM, Chris farley said:

I hope every day that Ukraine wins today.  And like so many before.  It's about geopolitics and energy.  

 

And honestly.  Do you even care your in 💯 alignment with Rino's/war hawks on this?

 

I think Clemence had a quote on stopping/assessing when you catch yourself flowing a group.  

 

Just saying 

I dont care that I align with a group that I normally wouldn't.   It has no bearing on facts and whether we're doing the right thing.  I'm not beholden (normally) to one party either though right now I wouldn't consider voting R.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Ukraine.   Back in the USSR days the Soviets would often use Ukrainians to carry out their most heinous deeds in other states that were rebelling or just speaking out.   Like, my people were being slaughtered.  So there is an underlying resentment from say Poland that they are helping people that once killed them.  But Ukraine is lucky Poles hate Russians.

 

I mention this only to show that there's a ton of nuance and I don't support them lightly.   They are still corrupt af but are getting better.   Not being corrupt with an 800lb gorilla on your back is not possible.  If this finishes positively for Ukraine they will flourish.   May take a bit I'm assuming they racked up a bit of debt.  But corruption that makes Russia a joke will slowly be exterminated.  

 

You should get over the Ukraine conspiracies they aren't very plausible.   

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

I've been saying time and again about the need to be skeptical of propaganda spewed from both sides.  Like all wars.  Here's an example.  Two stories on the same event. 

 

USAToday: 'More alarming every hour': Russians admit Ukraine gains. Is counteroffensive underway?"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/06/05/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates/70288023007/

 

RussiaToday: "‘Large-scale’ Ukrainian offensive repelled – Russian MOD"

 

https://www.rt.com/russia/577470-ukraine-large-scale-offensive-russia/

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Ukraine attacking north and south of Bakhmut. Encirclement move? The Bakhmut pocket? Total speculation, but if Russia spent all those lives and treasure taking the place only to have it surrounded, that would be a serious demoralizing situation 

 

 

 

From the Washington Post: 

 

Some U.S. officials think the Ukrainian counteroffensive is underway, pointing to territorial gains north and south of Bakhmut, as well as strikes deep behind Russian lines that they see as part of a gradual launch of the operation. They note that a successful offensive may look very different from conventional operations involving armored columns that seek to penetrate enemy ground. It may involve, instead, what U.S. officials describe as modern maneuver warfare, something they say is already being enabled by recent Western training and arms supplies and which includes expanded artillery fire, probing attacks, and sabotage or partisan activity behind enemy lines. They hope such actions will force Russian troops to make mistakes and provide Ukrainian forces opportunities to advance.

[L Ron Burgundy]

14 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I've been saying time and again about the need to be skeptical of propaganda spewed from both sides.  Like all wars.  Here's an example.  Two stories on the same event. 

 

USAToday: 'More alarming every hour': Russians admit Ukraine gains. Is counteroffensive underway?"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/06/05/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates/70288023007/

 

RussiaToday: "‘Large-scale’ Ukrainian offensive repelled – Russian MOD"

 

https://www.rt.com/russia/577470-ukraine-large-scale-offensive-russia/

 

 

 

Yes and now today a dam was blown and each side is blaming the other.  It'd be funny if we were discussing something other than war.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

hmmmmmm.

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rumor:

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

 

 

 

 

Damn "Putin Lovin" WAPO.

 

 

 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:06 PM, All_Pro_Bills said:

I've been saying time and again about the need to be skeptical of propaganda spewed from both sides.  Like all wars.  Here's an example.  Two stories on the same event. 

 

USAToday: 'More alarming every hour': Russians admit Ukraine gains. Is counteroffensive underway?"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/06/05/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates/70288023007/

 

RussiaToday: "‘Large-scale’ Ukrainian offensive repelled – Russian MOD"

 

https://www.rt.com/russia/577470-ukraine-large-scale-offensive-russia/

 

 

 

Yup tough to tell what to believe.   I usually wait for multiple sources to confirm one side.

 

You do seem like you get suckered into some that make Russia look favorable.   The coup being engineered by the US.  Ukraine slaughtering ethnic Russian in the east.  Have you remarked on the 3rd most popular one where Zelensky is hammering down on religion there too?

 

Odd that you'd believe what info Russia is shilling.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

12 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Yup tough to tell what to believe.   I usually wait for multiple sources to confirm one side.

 

You do seem like you get suckered into some that make Russia look favorable.   The coup being engineered by the US.  Ukraine slaughtering ethnic Russian in the east.  Have you remarked on the 3rd most popular one where Zelensky is hammering down on religion there too?

 

Odd that you'd believe what info Russia is shilling.  

Wars are fought on the battlefield and in the press.  Lots of propaganda and sleight of hand.  The attack on the Kakhova dam being the most recent incident of finger pointing.  You can't trust anyone.  And counting on the media to tell the real story?  Forget it.  I don't trust Washington or Moscow. 

 

What I do trust is employing reason and logic, being objective, and assessing events with a touch of common sense.  Like the NordStream pipeline attack.  Immediately the Russians did it?  Why would they do that?  Common sense says just turn the valve off.  That initial theory has more or less been put to bed and the current tale is some Ukrainian group was responsible. I'm not entirely sold on that story either as there are lots of loose ends there too.  

 

And my reason and logic says there's a problem with this conflict in providing unlimited assistance without some clearly articulated objectives for what officials say "however long it takes"  Without defining what "it" is. As this is now a war of attrition and I don't see Ukraine winning a war of attrition with Russia that would leave the remaining path to victory being direct NATO or US involvement in combat operations.  Perhaps Americans remain unconcerned by this prospect because they expect the war to be fought "over there".  But don't count on it.  

[Coffeesforclosers]

14 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Hmmmmmm.

 

 

 

 

Damn "Putin Lovin" WAPO.

 

 

 

 

 

Rybar is a fairly reliable Russian/Z military blogger on Twitter. His stuff pans out frequently enough, although there's certain propaganda lines he has to adhere to if he doesn't want to end up in a Penal Colony.  For instance, he was spot on Ukraine's first counter-attack in Kherson last May being smashed by Russian airstrikes and artillery without doing much. 

 

Give him a shot.

 

Posobiec is a tool, and half the time he retweets stuff, it's because he expects the reader to react to his tweet without reading the article. 

[B-Man]

 

 

"Ukraine has worked for years.... to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols steeped in Nazi history..."

 

"... and espouse views hostile to leftists, L.G.B.T.Q. movements and ethnic minorities. But some members of these groups have been fighting Russia since the Kremlin illegally annexed part of the Crimea region of Ukraine in 2014 and are now part of the broader military structure. Some are regarded as national heroes, even as the far-right remains marginalized politically. The iconography of these groups, including a skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front line, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukrainian sovereignty and pride, not Nazism. In the short term, that threatens to reinforce Mr. Putin’s propaganda and give fuel to his false claims that Ukraine must be 'de-Nazified'...." 

 

From "Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History/Troops’ use of patches bearing Nazi emblems risks fueling Russian propaganda and spreading imagery that the West has spent a half-century trying to eliminate" (NYT).

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html?smid=url-share

 

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

 

"Ukraine has worked for years.... to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols steeped in Nazi history..."

 

"... and espouse views hostile to leftists, L.G.B.T.Q. movements and ethnic minorities. But some members of these groups have been fighting Russia since the Kremlin illegally annexed part of the Crimea region of Ukraine in 2014 and are now part of the broader military structure. Some are regarded as national heroes, even as the far-right remains marginalized politically. The iconography of these groups, including a skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front line, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukrainian sovereignty and pride, not Nazism. In the short term, that threatens to reinforce Mr. Putin’s propaganda and give fuel to his false claims that Ukraine must be 'de-Nazified'...." 

 

From "Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History/Troops’ use of patches bearing Nazi emblems risks fueling Russian propaganda and spreading imagery that the West has spent a half-century trying to eliminate" (NYT).

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html?smid=url-share

 

 

So, they have a problem with MAGA types, too. So what? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So, they have a problem with MAGA types, too. So what? 

First, they don't see Nazi's as a major problem.  These people aren't "MAGA types".  They're clearly visible and accepted remnants of German WW2 occupation and collaboration with the SS. Assisting in the "rounding up" and extermination of Ukrainian citizens that Hitler and his mob deemed to be undesirables. 

 

Meanwhile, in 2023, the Pentagon is trying to identify and expel "extremists" from the US services while the Ukrainian military embraces Nazi paramilitary group members as the core of their most effective combat troops.  Do you see the irony there?  

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

First, they don't see Nazi's as a major problem.  These people aren't "MAGA types".  They're clearly visible and accepted remnants of German WW2 occupation and collaboration with the SS. Assisting in the "rounding up" and extermination of Ukrainian citizens that Hitler and his mob deemed to be undesirables. 

 

Meanwhile, in 2023, the Pentagon is trying to identify and expel "extremists" from the US services while the Ukrainian military embraces Nazi paramilitary group members as the core of their most effective combat troops.  Do you see the irony there?  

Yes! You are trying to use Nazis as an excuse for letting Putin pull off a Nazi like take over of Ukraine. Ironic! 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Yes! You are trying to use Nazis as an excuse for letting Putin pull off a Nazi like take over of Ukraine. Ironic! 

 

 

Nazi-like? Is that even a thing? 🙄

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Nazi-like? Is that even a thing? 🙄

Oh ya! 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Rybar is a fairly reliable Russian/Z military blogger on Twitter. His stuff pans out frequently enough, although there's certain propaganda lines he has to adhere to if he doesn't want to end up in a Penal Colony.  For instance, he was spot on Ukraine's first counter-attack in Kherson last May being smashed by Russian airstrikes and artillery without doing much. 

 

Give him a shot.

 

Posobiec is a tool, and half the time he retweets stuff, it's because he expects the reader to react to his tweet without reading the article. 

I probably said this before but Posobiec is literally a joke.  He was a pizzagater which was one of the dumbest conspiracies there were.  Straight qanon insanity. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I probably said this before but Posobiec is literally a joke.  He was a pizzagater which was one of the dumbest conspiracies there were.  Straight qanon insanity. 

 

It's alright, I know.  

 

I love that Musk lets the whole world read Twitter now without having to sign up.

 

Russian MilBloggers are about the only people on the Russian side that tell something close to the truth. 

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

First, they don't see Nazi's as a major problem.  These people aren't "MAGA types".  They're clearly visible and accepted remnants of German WW2 occupation and collaboration with the SS. Assisting in the "rounding up" and extermination of Ukrainian citizens that Hitler and his mob deemed to be undesirables. 

 

Meanwhile, in 2023, the Pentagon is trying to identify and expel "extremists" from the US services while the Ukrainian military embraces Nazi paramilitary group members as the core of their most effective combat troops.  Do you see the irony there?  

I dont think that's right.  I don't think it has anything to do with ww2 despite the stolen symbolism.  Russia has manipulated this country so long the almost natural response was strong nationalism, enforcing a cultural identity very much separate from Russia (though thats a stretch).   Unfortunately that "Ukrainians are the best" mentality leads some misguided youths into believing their race is the best.  The silly symbolism comes next.

 

I would bet a lot of those wrapped up in these trappings now feel foolish.  Quite a few volunteers of other races have come to help fight with them.

[Big Blitz]

 

Is the ordeal still going on?

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Is the ordeal still going on?

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

 

When you realize all the simpletons that believed the Russian collusion hoax still believe it even when faced with official investigations that have proven it to be a hoax.  Idiots.

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Is the ordeal still going on?

What on earth is a “baby factory?” 

[Westside]

Is this still going on?

[Coffeesforclosers]

17 minutes ago, Westside said:

Is this still going on?

 

Unfortunately, yes.

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Is the ordeal still going on?

Do you take any of this seriously?  Pretty much insane if you do.

[Tiberius]

KYIV, Ukraine — The Ukrainian military’s long-anticipated counteroffensive against occupying Russian forces has begun, opening a phase in the war aimed at restoring Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty and retaining Western support in the war. Ukraine’s troops intensified their attacks on the front line in the country’s southeast, according to four individuals in the country’s armed forces, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the battlefield developments.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/06/08/russia-ukraine-war-news-counteroffensive/

[Roundybout]

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

19 hours ago, Roundybout said:

What on earth is a “baby factory?” 

 

Your mom

[Tommy Callahan]

I see the twitter voices  are saying the dam had to be the Russians, never mind the same voices said the same thing about the gas line.

 

The Wa-Po article above only sources Wagner and unnamed sources.

 

 

 

 

 

But they seem very happy about the amount of carnage going on today.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Chris farley

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Your mom

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 hours ago, Chris farley said:

I see the twitter voices  are saying the dam had to be the Russians, never mind the same voices said the same thing about the gas line.

 

The Wa-Po article above only sources Wagner and unnamed sources.

 

 

 

 

 

But they seem very happy about the amount of carnage going on today.

 

 

 

 

First the US IC said the evidence points to the Russians blowing up Nordstream but without providing any supporting evidence.  Now, months later, they've changed their story.  Throwing some Ukranian special operations group under the bus.  And we're supposed to believe them.  Both times.  Sadly some do.

 

Then the Russians blew up the dam flooding the countryside and several towns.  Of course the press just runs with the story like they've been trained to do.  Never asking a question or looking more closely.  Give it a week or two and they'll change this story too.

Edited June 8, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[B-Man]