Allen refusal to throw underneath is killing us. Killing drives. This was on 17 strictly

[GunnerBill]

At times Josh Allen has a tendency to hold the ball too long, I agree. It has at times resurfaced this season, and the reason in my mind is that he gets good protection so rarely that when it holds up he wants to really take advantage of that with a big chunk play so those plays where the line holds he doesn't want to checkdown he wants to go deep. The only criticism I'd have on those plays is actually I think he should just locate #14 and chuck it up a few times. Diggs will make him some plays whether that be catches or DPIs. 

 

The rest of the post is nonsense. If you want to put yesterday on #17 for three bad turnovers I will listen to that argument. But we did not lose yesterday because he didn't take check downs. That is just plain wrong. 

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

It was but he had plenty time. Held ball too long. DL didn't effect him til like 2 seconds later

I'm only posting throws where he could have def had that easy completion. 

 

It was a split second later.  You have no idea what you are seeing nor do you have a feel for actual time.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

You literally have 3 defenders (one off screen) with no one to guard watching the screen to Moss. How can you guarantee a td there? You want discussion? That is the argument that Allen was trying for the TD, not a 5 yard gain and a field goal.

 

If there is a throw I want Josh to try and make there it is to try and fit it in to #14 coming across the endzone. It is a tight window and the safety at the back might break on it but that is the only potential touchdown throw I see there. It would have taken a laser throw and potentially Diggs holding on in traffic but I do think if there is a knock on them at the moment they need to trust #14 more. He might be covered, it might be tight, but you gotta give him a chance to make plays. He is the difference maker. 

[JMF2006]

I am pinning this on the O line.

 

Jax did not want to get embarrassed and played hungry.

[Trogdor]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Every time Moss or Singletary or Sweeney caught the ball they were tackled almost instantly. We do not have a RB capable of accelerating and Sweeney is a huge drop off from Knox. We can't go 5-6 yards at a time all the way to the end zone. If we had a legitimate dynamic RB then yes that would be a more viable strategy.

Pretty sure he still wouldn't dress. Yeldon, Williams, and now Breida are just not given a chance. I'd even try some Wade right now because Taiwan is bringing nothing to the table that they can't replace. They seem pretty set on forcing their drafted guys up though. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Pretty sure he still wouldn't dress. Yeldon, Williams, and now Breida are just not given a chance. I'd even try some Wade right now because Taiwan is bringing nothing to the table that they can't replace. They seem pretty set on forcing their drafted guys up though. 

 

If you think any of those 3 are the answer to anything you are asking the wrong question. 

[oldmanfan]

The OP must have been watching a different game.  This game was lost up front.  We had 5 guys who did not physically hold up.  As a unit they did not have the strength to move guys in the run game or keep them off Josh.  How may times did guys get pushed straight back the last few weeks.  
 

The short term fix is for Daboll to call more really quick passes.  The long term fix is for Beane to upgrade the line.

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

HE HOLDS THE BALL TOO LONG

 

He has to hit them immediately,  his holding onto the ball to much is becoming a problem.

 

 

That’s more a schematic thing then anything they don’t really ask Josh for quick release throws you’d be looking at more of a pure west coast system like something Andy Reid implements then the Dabolls philosophy 

[whorlnut]

This thread was not very well thought out. At one point today, our leading rusher was our qb and our leading receiver was the awful Devin Singletary. That can’t happen. 

[Meatloaf63]

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He refuses to just get a quick 6 7 yards to the RB or TE real quick, always looking to push and get the intermediate routes and he's phenomenal but you have to also take these easy 5 10 yard passes. 

He killed so many drives because of this.

D played phenomenal 

ST played phenomenal 

O played decent,  but Allen's refusal to throw underneath quickly, when you're facing a ton of pressure is his Worse trait and I love him for it at the same time but today it lost us what should have been a 2 TD win. He killed multiple drives directly because of this against one of the worse teams in the game. 

 

This one was on 17. 

 

You people refuse to admit or admit this fatal flaw. I know I'm going to get flack. I love 17 . Just being real. Giving my opinion. 

You are correct and look at all the negative responses. Every loss we had this year could have been a win if he and Daboll understood how to beat pressure. But after all these years they both still don’t get it. If you actually pay close attention, yes sometimes late he throws to the back and there are a few plays that are designed short, but their are often plays long developing plays they he looks at a wide ope receiver 5-8 yards upfield only to throw a much longer incompletion to a double covered receiver 20 + yards up field.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Meatloaf63

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

You are correct and look at all the negative responses. Every loss we had this year could have been a win if he and Daboll understood how to beat pressure. But after all these years they both still don’t get it.

 

Beating cover 0 and beating a 4 man rush are two different things.  There is no making up for line play this bad.  There just isn't.

[Meatloaf63]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Beating cover 0 and beating a 4 man rush are two different things.  There is no making up for line play this bad.  There just isn't.

That’s absolutely compounding the problem. Anyone who didn’t understand that issue after last year’s playoffs isn’t  paying attention. It’s magnifying the problem, but they are very related.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Meatloaf63

[Trogdor]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you think any of those 3 are the answer to anything you are asking the wrong question. 

They aren't great, but they show more than what we have. Yeldon had a great game receiving and decent rushing and was never seen again. Williams was always falling forward, and Breida is the change of pace we desperately need. None of them is a singular answer, but why play Taiwan every week and take away the option. Moss is a better version than Singletary, but they are basically the same back. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Trogdor said:

They aren't great, but they show more than what we have. Yeldon had a great game receiving and decent rushing and was never seen again. Williams was always falling forward, and Breida is the change of pace we desperately need. None of them is a singular answer, but why play Taiwan every week and take away the option. Moss is a better version than Singletary, but they are basically the same back. 

 

Taiwan didn't have a very good game yesterday but ordinarily he is a very good player for us in the kicking game. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

That’s absolutely compounding the problem. Anyone who didn’t understand that issue after last year’s playoffs isn’t  paying attention. It’s magnifying the problem, but they are very related.

 

There is no making up for the o line play.  Two weeks ago Josh was getting 2.4 seconds before pressure.  After the Miami game that dropped to 2.1 seconds.  I expect it will drop further this week but that isn't updated until Wednesday.  They would have to run an offense like the Pats in the passing game but the Bills have no run game so that isn't going to work for our team.  They simply cannot hide the line anymore and defenses know... get pressure with 4, max coverage, don't worry about the run.  Its just that simple for them.

[Meatloaf63]

31 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

That’s more a schematic thing then anything they don’t really ask Josh for quick release throws you’d be looking at more of a pure west coast system like something Andy Reid implements then the Dabolls philosophy 

When Dabolls philosophy fails, he usually has no answers how to adjust or doesn’t recognize it quick enough…

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

No.   

 

He actually did take the underneath stuff today and there was minimal yac 

 

Beasely and Singletary combined for 15 catches - for 76 yards.  

 

Cole had 8 catches for 33 yards.  

 

How's that even possible????

This should have ended the this trolling thread 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

There is no making up for the o line play.  Two weeks ago Josh was getting 2.4 seconds before pressure.  After the Miami game that dropped to 2.1 seconds.  I expect it will drop further this week but that isn't updated until Wednesday.  They would have to run an offense like the Pats in the passing game but the Bills have no run game so that isn't going to work for our team.  They simply cannot hide the line anymore and defenses know... get pressure with 4, max coverage, don't worry about the run.  Its just that simple for them.

 

Agree they can't. I think what they have to do a bit is stop coaching scared of it. Throwing 15 screens a game is not the answer. They have to call their offense and just make clear to Josh if it isn't there throw it away fast and get out of dodge. It will kill completion percentages and it might look ugly but it is the only way I can see us moving the ball unless the oline suddenly turns it around. I do wonder a bit if the Bills were fooled into thinking this line was better than it is (they actually were above average in pass pro last year) because of the lack of offensive holding calls in 2020 which was a deliberate move by the NFL in my opinion to not further sap energy from the game in empty stadiums. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree they can't. I think what they have to do a bit is stop coaching scared of it. Throwing 15 screens a game is not the answer. They have to call their offense and just make clear to Josh if it isn't there throw it away fast and get out of dodge. It will kill completion percentages and it might look ugly but it is the only way I can see us moving the ball unless the oline suddenly turns it around. I do wonder a bit if the Bills were fooled into thinking this line was better than it is (they actually were above average in pass pro last year) because of the lack of offensive holding calls in 2020 which was a deliberate move by the NFL in my opinion to not further sap energy from the game in empty stadiums. 

 

Agree with all of this.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

When Dabolls philosophy fails, he usually has no answers how to adjust or doesn’t recognize it quick enough…

 

It is hard to adjust to having no offensive line. Like others have said if you have a super quick game (ball out within 2 seconds) with no running game where you end up is the Steelers down the stretch last year where they couldn't move the ball and couldn't score. If the line plays as bad as yesterday I am afraid you could have Vince Lombardi and Bill Walsh calling plays and you'd still be in trouble. That isn't to say Daboll is blameless, see my post above.... he is coaching scared of his line IMO and over-adjusting if anything... but that line would kill most offenses.