US Catholic Bishops vote to rebuke pro abortion Catholic politicians

[Tiberius]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yes.  

 

 

 

 

So Ted admits abortion is wrong and a sin.  Just wants to make sure all mortal sinners are treated equal.

 

Thanks Ted.  Appreciate it.  

 

I'll have the Bishops look into those 3 guys as soon as I can.  

 

Btw did Newt get an annulment?  Does he even go to mass?  Why should I care Ted?   

Good. Too bad Conservatives don’t try and follow the churches teaching on that and try and stamp out this sin. 

 

Why doesnt the Church go after that sin? Why no protests at late night drug stores that sell condoms? And these Catholic Supreme Court people with just a couple children. I bet they are usin* birth control. Sinners 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Good. Too bad Conservatives don’t try and follow the churches teaching on that and try and stamp out this sin. 

 

Why doesnt the Church go after that sin? Why no protests at late night drug stores that sell condoms? And these Catholic Supreme Court people with just a couple children. I bet they are usin* birth control. Sinners 

I think the Church should consider  separating the sins into some categories. Maybe call one mortal sins and the other group venial sins. The mortal sins could be for really bad things and the lesser sins could be for smaller much more common ones. Maybe if we did that then countries could set up judiciary systems with similar idea of felonies and misdemeanors. Your shallow thought process misunderstands what it means to be Catholic.

[Tiberius]

48 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I think the Church should consider  separating the sins into some categories. Maybe call one mortal sins and the other group venial sins. The mortal sins could be for really bad things and the lesser sins could be for smaller much more common ones. Maybe if we did that then countries could set up judiciary systems with similar idea of felonies and misdemeanors. Your shallow thought process misunderstands what it means to be Catholic.

I think the church should just keep their  hypocrisy out of our politics. The fact they kept birth control illegal for decades is just an example of the victory of ignorance over common decency 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Good. Too bad Conservatives don’t try and follow the churches teaching on that and try and stamp out this sin. 

 

Why doesnt the Church go after that sin? Why no protests at late night drug stores that sell condoms? And these Catholic Supreme Court people with just a couple children. I bet they are usin* birth control. Sinners 

 

 

The Church doesn't talk about this enough because you're correct.  My guess is over 75-85% of Catholics use birth control.  

 

The Church, in my opinion, has not done a good enough job (especially at their private schools that are allegedly Catholic) teaching about the alternatives and what it is they endorse.  

 

Which for any Catholic here I encourage you to research Natural Family Planning.  Wife and I have been using this for 20 years.  4 planned kids.  PM if you have any questions or want more info.   

Edited June 21, 2021 by Big Blitz

[BillStime]

BINGO

 

 

[LeviF]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:14 PM, BillStime said:

BINGO

 

 

 

The US public education system has a much higher rate of offenders/offenses than does the Catholic Church.  

 

Our Roman friends have their issues, but every neopagan loser shrieking about pedophiles in the church sure does love their drag queen story hour and public edumacation. Really makes ya wonder about what they're actually upset about, because it sure isn't raping kids.

[BillStime]

Just now, LeviF said:

 

The US public education system has a much higher rate of offenders/offenses than does the Catholic Church.  

 

Our Roman friends have their issues, but every neopagan loser shrieking about pedophiles in the church sure does love their drag queen story hour and public edumacation. Really makes ya wonder about what they're actually upset about, because it sure isn't raping kids.

 

STOP - stop making excuses... the Catholic cult should be shut down due to these heinous acts.  Absolutely appalling..

 

[LeviF]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

STOP - stop making excuses... the Catholic cult should be shut down due to these heinous acts.  Absolutely appalling..

 

 

Well if you apply that logic to each institution with a pedophile issue I'm on board.  Shut down the papists, public education, and Hollywood.  The rest we can ferret out later.

[B-Man]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:14 PM, BillStime said:

BINGO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/22/u-s-catholic-bishops-arent-playing-politics-with-communion-biden-is/

 

 

U.S. Catholic Bishops Aren’t Playing Politics With Communion, Biden Is

 

Should President Joe Biden, a professing Catholic, be allowed to receive Holy Communion despite his ongoing support for abortion?

 

Of course not. The entire question is a fake controversy ginned up by corporate media hell-bent on smearing Catholic bishops and faithful Catholics everywhere. Those feigning outrage over the idea that Biden would be denied communion are really just outraged by the church’s moral teaching on abortion, and want to change it. For them, as for Biden himself, this isn’t about religion but politics.

 

The rather narrow question of whether Biden should be allowed to receive communion is not at all complex or unclear. But Biden’s defenders in the press, and even some inside the episcopacy, are making it seem as though it were.

 

All Catholics know, or should know, that they are not supposed to present themselves for communion if they are objectively in a state of mortal sin. Supporting abortion — or otherwise dissenting from or promoting contrary positions to the Catholic Church’s fundamental dogmatic teaching — puts one in a state of mortal sin. Therefore, politicians who support abortion shouldn’t present themselves for communion, period.

 

You don’t have to take my word for it. Back in 2004, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who later became Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a memo entitled, “Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion: General Principles.” The letter was prompted by the presidential candidacy of then-Sen. John Kerry, a Catholic like Biden who insisted that his ongoing, unrepentant support for abortion shouldn’t bar him from taking communion.

 

To clear things up, Ratzinger sent a letter to the now-disgraced Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, at the time the head of a task force of U.S. bishops studying the question, and Bishop Wilton Gregory, then president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Ratzinger wrote:

 

Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.

 

{snip}

 

 

It is rather Biden who has politicized the Eucharist by his ongoing defiance of Catholic teaching on this matter. The media have also politicized the issue by framing it in political rather than moral terms, and so have the dozens of U.S. bishops who have refused to take a clear stand for what they know is right.

 

Indeed, if it weren’t for political considerations, Friday’s vote by the bishops would have been unanimous. If it weren’t for politics, there would be no need to draft a non-binding document to be approved at a later date.

 

Such weak half-measures would be unnecessary, because the bishops would say, with one voice, what every one of them knows to be true: Joe Biden should not receive communion. Politics, not the Catholic Church’s moral teaching, prevents them from doing so. Politics is what motivates Wilton Gregory, now archbishop of Washington, D.C., to say he will continue to give the Eucharist to Biden, no matter what the USCCB’s document says.

 

Biden’s contention that this is a “private matter” (a claim repeated Monday by White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki) is nonsense. As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, a politician’s stance on abortion is never a private matter, any more than a politician’s vote on abortion-related legislation is a private matter.

 

Like every single American bishop, Biden knows that. He also knows he shouldn’t present himself for communion. So does every Catholic child. Cardinal Francis Arinze, who was prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments from 2002 to 2008, said in a speech in 2007 that he is often asked if a politician who supports abortion should receive Holy Communion:

 

Do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to answer that? Get the children for first communion and say to them, somebody votes for the killing of unborn babies, and says, I voted for that, I will vote for that every time and these babies are killed, not one or two, but in millions, and that person says I am a practicing Catholic, should that person receive communion next Sunday? The children for first communion will answer that at the drop of a hat. You don’t need a cardinal to answer that.

 

So let’s dispense with the ridiculous fiction that anyone, from Biden to the bishops to liberal Catholic columnists in the corporate press, is the least bit confused about any of this. They’re not confused. They know what the Catholic Church teaches, and they’d like to change it. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Orlando Tim]

I am not happy that the Church is going down this road because I have not heard Biden praise women who have had abortions. If he would sign a bill promoting abortions I could see an argument but right now I don't think he is actively undermining our teachings, he is just not actively supporting it.

[Big Blitz]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am not happy that the Church is going down this road because I have not heard Biden praise women who have had abortions. If he would sign a bill promoting abortions I could see an argument but right now I don't think he is actively undermining our teachings, he is just not actively supporting it.

 

 

He repealed the freaking Hyde Amendment.  

 

So yes, yes he does promote abortions, the most active president in history to do so. 

[716er]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am not happy that the Church is going down this road because I have not heard Biden praise women who have had abortions. If he would sign a bill promoting abortions I could see an argument but right now I don't think he is actively undermining our teachings, he is just not actively supporting it.

 

There's a group called Catholics for Choice with a vast membership and a Board of Directors.

 

All of those folks are still able to receive the sacrament without issue.

 

Why don't the bishops go after them?

[TSOL]

 

 

 

[BillStime]

What is Q's take on the pedophile ring, aka the Catholic Church?

 

Not surprising see all these right wing nut jobs rally behind another pedo cult....

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

He repealed the freaking Hyde Amendment.  

 

So yes, yes he does promote abortions, the most active president in history to do so. 

I can not find where he did repeal it, I am assuming you mean by one of his executive orders, do you know which one? I honestly can't find it quickly using Google 

1 hour ago, 716er said:

 

There's a group called Catholics for Choice with a vast membership and a Board of Directors.

 

All of those folks are still able to receive the sacrament without issue.

 

Why don't the bishops go after them?

Never heard of them, they make no sense and are not recognizable, so why bother with them? You don't worry about people who can't effect you generally 

[B-Man]

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/06/22/the-daily-beasts-headline-about-controversy-surrounding-devout-catholic-joe-bidens-abortion-stance-couldve-used-a-few-tweaks/

 

 

The Daily Beast’s headline about controversy surrounding ‘devout Catholic’ Joe Biden’s abortion stance could’ve used a few tweaks

 

 

The Daily Beast has a problem with people criticizing “devout Catholic” Joe Biden for supporting abortion and dodging questions about the humanity of unborn babies.

 

 

 

 

Oddly enough, no one at the Daily Beast seems to have had a problem with the headline for that opinion piece:

 

 

Seriously? Nobody at the Daily Beast read that headline and thought, “Hey, wait a minute. Are we sure there’s not a better way to phrase this?

Like in a way that doesn’t compare Joe Biden to a pedophile?”

 

 

 

 

You don't often see the president compared to a pedophile, but here we are.

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

Maybe Biden will finally grow up and stop believing in magical wizards that live in the sky and care about what types of medical procedures are allowed for women or what kind of food you can eat on Fridays.

Glad to see you kids couldn't stay away in Trumptardville for more than a couple months. Glad to have you all back.

Edited June 22, 2021 by BullBuchanan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Maybe Biden will finally grow up and stop believing in magical wizards that live in the sky and care about what types of medical procedures are allowed for women or what kind of food you can eat on Fridays.
 

While this probably offends a lot of religious people, this should really be the point. 
 

Biden defies a core stance of a religion he allegedly subscribes to (I’m sure purely as political theatre) making him a hypocrite too. 
 

He needs to man up and say he disagrees and has departed the Catholic Church. 
 

He would look a helluva lot stronger standing up for his beliefs rather than being ostracized and slapped on the wrist by the Pope or whomever the eff decided he can’t be fed stale paper wafers... 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

While this probably offends a lot of religious people, this should really be the point. 
 

Biden defies a core stance of a religion he allegedly subscribes to (I’m sure purely as political theatre) making him a hypocrite too. 
 

He needs to man up and say he disagrees and has departed the Catholic Church. 
 

He would look a helluva lot stronger standing up for his beliefs rather than being ostracized and slapped on the wrist by the Pope or whomever the eff decided he can’t be fed stale paper wafers... 

Dudeski, he’s the leader of the free world elected in large part by people who claim to victimized by…ah, college…and need redemption in the form of someone else sucking up the payment.   He’s the leader of the free world with a history of groping women and children in public, and was elected in large part by people who claim to be pro-women because he “owned” his behavior at age 78.  He’s the leader of the free world with a 5 decade history of making racist comments including claiming to be the arbiter of…blackness, elected in large part by social justice suburbanites claiming to be about racial progress. 
 

He doesn’t need to look strong, he just has to avoid wearing Dr Jills PhD’pends on his head while out in public.  
 

Besides, any devout Catholic knows his shtick from the last 45 years and have shrugged and reconciled or moved on. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Dudeski, he’s the leader of the free world elected in large part by people who claim to victimized by…ah, college…and need redemption in the form of someone else sucking up the payment.   He’s the leader of the free world with a history of groping women and children in public, and was elected in large part by people who claim to be pro-women because he “owned” his behavior at age 78.  He’s the leader of the free world with a 5 decade history of making racist comments including claiming to be the arbiter of…blackness, elected in large part by social justice suburbanites claiming to be about racial progress. 
 

He doesn’t need to look strong, he just has to avoid wearing Dr Jills PhD’pends on his head while out in public.  
 

Besides, any devout Catholic knows his shtick from the last 45 years and have shrugged and reconciled or moved on. 

And yet he's an infinite upgrade over the alternative. I didn't vote for him and I never will, but I'm glad he beat the other guy. That's really all that matters when your choice was a ***** sandwich or a vomit covered ***** sandwich

Edited June 23, 2021 by BullBuchanan

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

And yet he's an infinite upgrade over the alternative. I didn't vote for him and I never will, but I'm glad he beat the other guy. That's really all that matters when your choice was a ***** sandwich or a vomit covered ***** sandwich

Your vote is your business, and what motivates you is as well. That’s why we have elections.   We can celebrate the fact that you agreed with the assessment of the current president.  

[Big Blitz]

11 hours ago, 716er said:

 

There's a group called Catholics for Choice with a vast membership and a Board of Directors.

 

All of those folks are still able to receive the sacrament without issue.

 

Guess they'll find out come when judgement comes.  That could be an issue. 

 

 

11 hours ago, 716er said:

 

Why don't the bishops go after them?

 

 

They just did.  

[Tiberius]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Guess they'll find out come when judgement comes.  That could be an issue. 

 

Do you think St Paul will talk squarely to those condemned to hell fire about condoms? "Son, you put it on and killed all those sperm cells! To the fires of perdition with you!" 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

 

 

Clueless Bill.  

 

They were never going to single out at Communion Pelosi or Biden or anyone.  

 

 

How would the priest know if either went to confession that week to confess their radical positions on abortion and are truly sorry?   How would they know?

 

They can't.  Thus no one was going to be physically denied communion.

 

But now it is back in the discourse of the church, the flock, and even the salad bar Catholics.  

 

You lack an understanding of how this and most everything works but especially this.  

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Clueless Bill.  

 

They were never going to single out at Communion Pelosi or Biden or anyone.  

 

 

How would the priest know if either went to confession that week to confess their radical positions on abortion and are truly sorry?   How would they know?

 

They can't.  Thus no one was going to be physically denied communion.

 

But now it is back in the discourse of the church, the flock, and even the salad bar Catholics.  

 

You lack an understanding of how this and most everything works but especially this.  

Why does this thread exist?

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

Why does this thread exist?

 

 

Read the OP bro.  

[Big Blitz]

Good.  

 

 

 

[Andy1]

Religion is religion. Government is government. Mixing the two together ruins both and benefits none. There was a reason why the founding fathers advocated for separation of church and state.

[Coffeesforclosers]

37 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

Religion is religion. Government is government. Mixing the two together ruins both and benefits none. There was a reason why the founding fathers advocated for separation of church and state.

 

Yup.  Anybody who thinks they can bring about gods kingdom through man's works can go hang out with the other pelagians. So render unto caesar.

 

[LeviF]

10 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Yup.  Anybody who thinks they can bring about gods kingdom through man's works can go hang out with the other pelagians. So render unto caesar.

 

The defining line comes at some point though. Paul states that civil power is delegated by God for good. Therefore any use of civil power for evil is the power of man, not God. To resist such is thus not resisting God but men. 

[Orlando Tim]

I am hoping in his letter that his blocking her is based on her promotion of abortion, not simply her lack of opposition. This is not a situation where you are with me or against me, the majority of people want to protect the babies and the mothers.

[ALF]

What if politicians or judges remain quiet but vote to have abortion legal will the Church still sanction them ?

After controversy, U.S. Catholic bishops say there will be ‘no national policy on withholding Communion from politicians’
June 25, 2021 

 

Days after a vote that triggered a tsunami of Catholic debate about Communion and politics, leading U.S. Catholic bishops working on an upcoming document about the sacrament are now de-emphasizing direct confrontation with President Biden or other Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/25/catholic-bishops-communion-biden-abortion/

 

Pelosi ‘Pleased’ by Vatican Statement on Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians  May 14, 2021

The document Pelosi was referring to told the U.S. bishops to discuss the matter among themselves, to avoid public controversy and division, and ultimately to leave the question between politicians and their local Catholic authorities.

 

https://catholicvote.org/pelosi-pleased-by-vatican-statement-on-communion-for-pro-abortion-politicians/

 

It sounds like it is up to each diocese to decide 

 

I have not heard of excommunication from the Church as a penalty.

Edited May 21, 2022 by ALF

[Orlando Tim]

7 hours ago, ALF said:

What if politicians or judges remain quiet but vote to have abortion legal will the Church still sanction them ?

After controversy, U.S. Catholic bishops say there will be ‘no national policy on withholding Communion from politicians’
June 25, 2021 

 

Days after a vote that triggered a tsunami of Catholic debate about Communion and politics, leading U.S. Catholic bishops working on an upcoming document about the sacrament are now de-emphasizing direct confrontation with President Biden or other Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/25/catholic-bishops-communion-biden-abortion/

 

Pelosi ‘Pleased’ by Vatican Statement on Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians  May 14, 2021

The document Pelosi was referring to told the U.S. bishops to discuss the matter among themselves, to avoid public controversy and division, and ultimately to leave the question between politicians and their local Catholic authorities.

 

https://catholicvote.org/pelosi-pleased-by-vatican-statement-on-communion-for-pro-abortion-politicians/

 

It sounds like it is up to each diocese to decide 

 

I have not heard of excommunication from the Church as a penalty.

Just to your last comment, denial of communion is a long step from excommunication. Both are a repudiation but no communion is like a suspension vs getting fired. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 hours ago, ALF said:

What if politicians or judges remain quiet but vote to have abortion legal will the Church still sanction them ?

After controversy, U.S. Catholic bishops say there will be ‘no national policy on withholding Communion from politicians’
June 25, 2021 

 

Days after a vote that triggered a tsunami of Catholic debate about Communion and politics, leading U.S. Catholic bishops working on an upcoming document about the sacrament are now de-emphasizing direct confrontation with President Biden or other Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/25/catholic-bishops-communion-biden-abortion/

 

Pelosi ‘Pleased’ by Vatican Statement on Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians  May 14, 2021

The document Pelosi was referring to told the U.S. bishops to discuss the matter among themselves, to avoid public controversy and division, and ultimately to leave the question between politicians and their local Catholic authorities.

 

https://catholicvote.org/pelosi-pleased-by-vatican-statement-on-communion-for-pro-abortion-politicians/

 

It sounds like it is up to each diocese to decide 

 

I have not heard of excommunication from the Church as a penalty.

Well, it wouldn’t be controversial if there wasn’t a sell out on some level.  

[Tiberius]

 

 

[Tiberius]

Leaders in the Southern Baptist Convention on Sunday released a major third-party investigation that found that sex abuse survivors were often ignored, minimized and “even vilified” by top clergy in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination.

The findings of nearly 300 pages include shocking new details about specific abuse cases and shine a light on how denominational leaders for decades actively resisted calls for abuse prevention and reform. Evidence in the report suggests leaders also lied to Southern Baptists over whether they could maintain a database of offenders to prevent more abuse when top leaders were secretly keeping a private list for years.

The report — the first investigation of its kind in a massive Protestant denomination like the SBC — is expected to send shock waves throughout a conservative Christian community that has had intense internal battles over how to handle sex abuse. The 13 million-member denomination, along with other religious institutions in the United States, has struggled with declining membership for the past 15 years. Its leaders have long resisted comparisons between its sexual abuse crisis and that of the Catholic Church, saying the total number of abuse cases among Southern Baptists was small.