America’s trade gap soared under Trump, final figures show

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The U.S. trade deficit over the four years of Trump’s presidency soared to its highest level since 2008, despite his tough tariff tactics intended to bring it down, a new Commerce Department report showed on Friday.

 

The combined U.S. goods and services trade deficit increased to $679 billion in 2020, compared to $481 billion in 2016, the year before Trump took office. The trade deficit in goods alone hit $916 billion, a record high and an increase of about 21 percent from 2016.

 

Bravo 👏 👏 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-trade-gap-soared-under-112050557.html

 

[US Egg]

What?.....

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-trade/u-s-trade-deficit-drops-to-more-than-three-year-low-idINKBN1Z61L3

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/04/us-trade-deficit-widens-by-1point7percent-to-63point1-billion-in-october.html
 

 

The U.S. trade deficit widened 1.7% in October to $63.1 billion. The politically sensitive gap in the trade of goods with China and Mexico grew.

 

The gap between the goods and services the United States sold and what it bought abroad rose from $62.1 billion in September, the Commerce Department reported Friday. Exports rose 2.2% to $182 billion, led by sales of aircraft engines. Imports increased 2.1% to $245.1 billion on an uptick in shipments of auto parts.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2A51P6
 

Reuters 

 

FRI FEB 5, 2021 / 9:08 AM EST

U.S. trade deficit jumps to 12-year high in 2020

 

(Reuters) - The United States' trade deficit surged to its highest level in 12 years in 2020 as the COVID-19 pandemic disrupted the flow of goods and services.
 

[Backintheday544]

4 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

What?.....

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-trade/u-s-trade-deficit-drops-to-more-than-three-year-low-idINKBN1Z61L3

 

 

hmmmmm.... it’s almost as if you look at numbers at two different time periods the numbers may change.

 

Your article is like turning the Bills on with a 9 point lead over the chiefs. The OPs article is like the final score.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

hmmmmm.... it’s almost as if you look at numbers at two different time periods the numbers may change.

 

Your article is like turning the Bills on with a 9 point lead over the chiefs. The OPs article is like the final score.

I don't usually respond to you because your comments are always stupid but this one over the top stupid. To act as if 2020 was normal in any way is dishonest, to really complete your analogy it would be comparing the 9 point lead then Josh Allen gets hurt and can't play, along with the entire offensive line and DBs. It was unprecedented economic damage from a virus that caused the change. If you can't admit that there is no reason to even deal with you because you are completely dishonest.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't usually respond to you because your comments are always stupid but this one over the top stupid. To act as if 2020 was normal in any way is dishonest, to really complete your analogy it would be comparing the 9 point lead then Josh Allen gets hurt and can't play, along with the entire offensive line and DBs. It was unprecedented economic damage from a virus that caused the change. If you can't admit that there is no reason to even deal with you because you are completely dishonest.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't usually respond to you because your comments are always stupid but this one over the top stupid. To act as if 2020 was normal in any way is dishonest, to really complete your analogy it would be comparing the 9 point lead then Josh Allen gets hurt and can't play, along with the entire offensive line and DBs. It was unprecedented economic damage from a virus that caused the change. If you can't admit that there is no reason to even deal with you because you are completely dishonest.

I know, right- it's like some people should expect 'the greatest deal-maker the world has ever known' to make things work to our advantage while the world markets are in turmoil or something...

[Backintheday544]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't usually respond to you because your comments are always stupid but this one over the top stupid. To act as if 2020 was normal in any way is dishonest, to really complete your analogy it would be comparing the 9 point lead then Josh Allen gets hurt and can't play, along with the entire offensive line and DBs. It was unprecedented economic damage from a virus that caused the change. If you can't admit that there is no reason to even deal with you because you are completely dishonest.

awww. I feel the same way about your comments. The drivel you spit is incredibly low class and uninformed!

 

Politico had a great article on why Trump failed in the trade deficit. Things that hurt the deficit were things like Trump policy, like tarrifs, trade wars, how he handled farmers, not passing an infrastructure bill, etc:

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/06/trump-trade-deficit-426805

 

Forbes too points at issues with Trumps China war: 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/09/30/trump-isnt-delivering-on-reducing-the-trade-deficit/

 

Your analogy would make sense if we were maybe talking about GDP.

 

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

What?.....

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-trade/u-s-trade-deficit-drops-to-more-than-three-year-low-idINKBN1Z61L3

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I don't usually respond to you because your comments are always stupid but this one over the top stupid. To act as if 2020 was normal in any way is dishonest, to really complete your analogy it would be comparing the 9 point lead then Josh Allen gets hurt and can't play, along with the entire offensive line and DBs. It was unprecedented economic damage from a virus that caused the change. If you can't admit that there is no reason to even deal with you because you are completely dishonest.

 

Dumbass Trumpists gonna make dumbass arguments defending their hero's lies and failures.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

awww. I feel the same way about your comments. The drivel you spit is incredibly low class and uninformed!

 

Politico had a great article on why Trump failed in the trade deficit. Things that hurt the deficit were things like Trump policy, like tarrifs, trade wars, how he handled farmers, not passing an infrastructure bill, etc:

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/06/trump-trade-deficit-426805

 

Forbes too points at issues with Trumps China war: 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/09/30/trump-isnt-delivering-on-reducing-the-trade-deficit/

 

Your analogy would make sense if we were maybe talking about GDP.

 

I will argue with the Forbes article because it shows the improving trend until Covid. The imports of goods were decreasing and exports of goods were improving in the months prior to early 2020. At no point did I expect him to drastically change the curve but it was improving before Covid and most importantly to me we were limiting our exposure to trade with China. I will give you credit- you argue better than I gave you credit for.

 

[SoCal Deek]

That chart doesn’t show what the OP is so desperate to believe it shows. Prior to Covid our unemployment levels were at all time lows. The country was essentially at FULL employment. It doesn’t get any better than that. The primary goal is to have everyone working. A secondary goal would be to export more than we import but not to the detriment of the primary goal. If all of your citizens are working and they still have money left over to buy goods from overseas then that’s a good thing! 

[SectionC3]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That chart doesn’t show what the OP is so desperate to believe it shows. Prior to Covid our unemployment levels were at all time lows. The country was essentially at FULL employment. It doesn’t get any better than that. The primary goal is to have everyone working. A secondary goal would be to export more than we import but not to the detriment of the primary goal. If all of your citizens are working and they still have money left over to buy goods from overseas then that’s a good thing! 

 

This isn't exactly true.  The primary goal is to have everyone working at a livable wage.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

This isn't exactly true.  The primary goal is to have everyone working at a livable wage.  

You’re correct there as well. That’s however much harder to put into a chart; and the graph in this thread doesn’t speak to that. But...if everyone has chosen (not been forced to) rejoin the workforce then it’s somewhat assumed they’ve done the math and decided that working is better for them than not working and falling into the safety net. No?

[SectionC3]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

You’re correct there as well. That’s however much harder to put into a chart; and the graph in this thread doesn’t speak to that. But...if everyone has chosen (not been forced to) rejoin the workforce then it’s somewhat assumed they’ve done the math and decided that working is better for them than not working and falling into the safety net. No?

 

One option could simply be less bad than the other.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

One option could simply be less bad than the other.  

That’s also correct. But it’s still LESS  bad. No? If you’re arguing for a thicker safety net then that’s a whole different discussion. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

That’s also correct. But it’s still LESS  bad. No? If you’re arguing for a thicker safety net then that’s a whole different discussion. 

 

Less bad is still bad.  I'm not arguing for a thicker safety net.  Hinting at the divide in this country that will grow as a result of the K-shaped recovery.  And also concerned about what I saw as a pre-Covid education gap in this country.  We're generating classes of people that can either change the world through technology, or who top out at sandwich artistry.  The absence of a middle isn't the government's fault, and it's not the government's responsibility to cure.  But it will be a boil on society, and it might be something that we should all think about addressing (e.g., by figuring out the education messes in urban areas, etc.). 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

 

Less bad is still bad.  I'm not arguing for a thicker safety net.  Hinting at the divide in this country that will grow as a result of the K-shaped recovery.  And also concerned about what I saw as a pre-Covid education gap in this country.  We're generating classes of people that can either change the world through technology, or who top out at sandwich artistry.  The absence of a middle isn't the government's fault, and it's not the government's responsibility to cure.  But it will be a boil on society, and it might be something that we should all think about addressing (e.g., by figuring out the education messes in urban areas, etc.). 

Thanks. If you study American history you’ll know that the middle class was born from our manufacturing base during and after WW2. We lost that over the last two or three decades. Those blue collar folks were not highly educated and didn’t need to be. So fast forward to today and you find the natural divide that comes from the transition to a service based economy. Trump was trying to bend the curve back to where we still had a manufacturing base and did a decent job of it, through policy. We simply don’t need that many accountants, lawyers and coders in America. 

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks. If you study American history you’ll know that the middle class was born from our manufacturing base during and after WW2. We lost that over the last two or three decades. Those blue collar folks were not highly educated and didn’t need to be. So fast forward to today and you find the natural divide that comes from the transition to a service based economy. Trump was trying to bend the curve back to where we still had a manufacturing base and did a decent job of it, through policy. We simply don’t need that many accountants, lawyers and coders in America. 

 

I think that was Trump's idea, but he did it wrongly.  Coal is dead.  We're not making refrigerators or whatever here anymore.  We're better off letting someone else do that at poverty-level wages and importing that type of consumable (crass, I know, but it's the truth).  The "new" manufacturing has to be of a "green" nature.  Time to reinvent and to educate so we're the world leader in that area for hundreds of years.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I think that was Trump's idea, but he did it wrongly.  Coal is dead.  We're not making refrigerators or whatever here anymore.  We're better off letting someone else do that at poverty-level wages and importing that type of consumable (crass, I know, but it's the truth).  The "new" manufacturing has to be of a "green" nature.  Time to reinvent and to educate so we're the world leader in that area for hundreds of years.  

Also true. But it has to start somewhere. The idea was to first become energy independent so that now we had our feet under us and weren’t as reliant on foreign oil which had drug us into years of war, death and debt. That investment buys you the time you need to grow the technologies for the transition you seek. It’s a lot like being in debt at home. Unless you can first get out of debt, you’ll never get around to saving money. (PS: my home has been solar powered for a decade...is yours?)

[JaCrispy]

13 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

hmmmmm.... it’s almost as if you look at numbers at two different time periods the numbers may change.

 

Your article is like turning the Bills on with a 9 point lead over the chiefs. The OPs article is like the final score.

Looks like the pandemic may have been the deciding factor...

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Also true. But it has to start somewhere. The idea was to first become energy independent so that now we had our feet under us and weren’t as reliant on foreign oil which had drug us into years of war, death and debt. That investment buys you the time you need to grow the technologies for the transition you seek. It’s a lot like being in debt at home. Unless you can first get out of debt, you’ll never get around to saving money. (PS: my home has been solar powered for a decade...is yours?)

 

No, but I wish it was.  Sun score is pretty good, but I have a very, very strange roof (the house is pretty modern) and solar is a tough install.  

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

No, but I wish it was.  Sun score is pretty good, but I have a very, very strange roof (the house is pretty modern) and solar is a tough install.  

I’m an architect. Let me take a crack at it! My power bill is less than $5.00 per month. 
Gotta go now but thanks for the dialogue. Much appreciated! 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

 

This isn't exactly true.  The primary goal is to have everyone working at a livable wage.  

That would be socialism, a terrible word in the USA. 

[SoTier]

55 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks. If you study American history you’ll know that the middle class was born from our manufacturing base during and after WW2. We lost that over the last two or three decades. Those blue collar folks were not highly educated and didn’t need to be. So fast forward to today and you find the natural divide that comes from the transition to a service based economy. Trump was trying to bend the curve back to where we still had a manufacturing base and did a decent job of it, through policy. We simply don’t need that many accountants, lawyers and coders in America. 

 

The US has had a relatively large middle class throughout most of its history.  Prior to WW II, the middle class was primarily comprised of small businessmen, including successful farmers and craftsmen, and professionals.  As the US economy expanded after the Civil War, an expanding group of managers and technicians joined the middle class.  The expansion of the middle class to include significant numbers of unskilled and semi-skilled wage earners coincided with the implementation of wage and hour regs that were part of the New Deal and the rise of unionization of major industries after WW II that significantly raised income and provided benefits.

 

Unfortunately, technology has shrunk the need for -- and therefore the value of --- unskilled and semi-skilled labor, which has translated into job losses and wage declines.   That's been a reality since at least the early 1970s.  Fewer workers produce more product, and that's not just the reality for blue collar workers but also for pink collar office workers (ie, there's no longer a typing pool).   Unskilled and semi-skilled workers face a bleak future with limited job opportunities and low wages.  Politicians who claim otherwise are conning their constituents.   There is no "bending back the curve" because we can't turn the clock back 60 or 70 years. 

[Niagara Bill]

trump ran trade with smoke and mirrors.

For example. He put a 25% tariff on certain steels and aluminum from Canada based on National security. He also did the same with certain softwood lumber. The only affect it had was

1. Increased new home prices in US

2. Increased prices of washing machines and dryers made in US. , which is about 20% of the sales.

The US citizens paid the price and the the US treasury got an increase.

 

90 days later he quietly reversed the policy.

Trade practices between Canada and US had been negotiated thru NAFTA and new nafta. Mechanisms were in place. 

 

Smoke and mirrors....

73,000,000 people accepted he was doing his job...

[US Egg]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

Dumbass Trumpists gonna make dumbass arguments defending their hero's lies and failures.

Dumbass Bidenistas kissing his wrinkled posterior and worse.

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

That would be socialism, a terrible word in the USA. 

Capitalism is the American way, Bill.  You may not love it from your side of the border, but it's ingrained into our DNA.  At least for many Americans.  

[Niagara Bill]

I fully understand that. Socialism is a word that raises the ire of most citizens. While the US has many socialist programs, capitalism is the driving force, and it many ways it has worked. 

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Capitalism is the American way, Bill.  You may not love it from your side of the border, but it's ingrained into our DNA.  At least for many Americans.  

 

[Tenhigh]

9 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I fully understand that. Socialism is a word that raises the ire of most citizens. While the US has many socialist programs, capitalism is the driving force, and it many ways it has worked. 

 

This is true. To many Americans socialism represents people getting something for nothing, and the lazy reaping the benefits of the hard working.   American ideals always promised that "if you work hard you can get ahead".  The unspoken part of that declaration is that you reap the fruit of your own labor and aren't responsible for everyone else's well being.   

But our borders are now open, so come on down so YOU can reap the rewards of MY grueling desk job. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tenhigh

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:55 AM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m an architect. Let me take a crack at it! My power bill is less than $5.00 per month. 
Gotta go now but thanks for the dialogue. Much appreciated! 

Incredible 

On 2/6/2021 at 11:13 AM, SoTier said:

 

The US has had a relatively large middle class throughout most of its history.  Prior to WW II, the middle class was primarily comprised of small businessmen, including successful farmers and craftsmen, and professionals.  As the US economy expanded after the Civil War, an expanding group of managers and technicians joined the middle class.  The expansion of the middle class to include significant numbers of unskilled and semi-skilled wage earners coincided with the implementation of wage and hour regs that were part of the New Deal and the rise of unionization of major industries after WW II that significantly raised income and provided benefits.

 

Unfortunately, technology has shrunk the need for -- and therefore the value of --- unskilled and semi-skilled labor, which has translated into job losses and wage declines.   That's been a reality since at least the early 1970s.  Fewer workers produce more product, and that's not just the reality for blue collar workers but also for pink collar office workers (ie, there's no longer a typing pool).   Unskilled and semi-skilled workers face a bleak future with limited job opportunities and low wages.  Politicians who claim otherwise are conning their constituents.   There is no "bending back the curve" because we can't turn the clock back 60 or 70 years. 

plumbers and electricians make a killing, well at least their hourly rates... 

[Buftex]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:39 AM, I am the egg man said:

Dumbass Bidenistas kissing his wrinkled posterior and worse.

Burn!

[SoTier]

54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Incredible 

plumbers and electricians make a killing, well at least their hourly rates... 

 

Plumbers and electricians aren't unskilled or semi-skilled workers.  Most take coursework in high school or community college and then work under the supervision of experienced plumbers or electricians for several months or years.  Unionized plumbers and electricians make really good money and have benefits, but those that work for small plumbing businesses don't make all that much.  The high hourly rates are divided between the actual worker(s) and the business owner.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Plumbers and electricians aren't unskilled or semi-skilled workers.  Most take coursework in high school or community college and then work under the supervision of experienced plumbers or electricians for several months or years.  Unionized plumbers and electricians make really good money and have benefits, but those that work for small plumbing businesses don't make all that much.  The high hourly rates are divided between the actual worker(s) and the business owner.

right I wasn’t calling it unskilled I guess as much as just that trades are often given a bad rap and I believe anyone that is reasonably motivated and willing to learn can pick up some of these trades and make a great living.  But at entry level they still do decently and can grow their own business or through the certification ranks or facilities jobs over time. 
 

I agree for the unwilling or unable that are destined for a career of minimum wage at best (I believe the unable to be the smallest contingent btw) there continues to be a decline in employment opportunities, but it is somewhat offset with the explosion in service industry jobs, like Uber, Grubhub, etc) 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[SoCal Deek]

17 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

right I wasn’t calling it unskilled I guess as much as just that trades are often given a bad rap and I believe anyone that is reasonably motivated and willing to learn can pick up some of these trades and make a great living.  But at entry level they still do decently and can grow their own business or through the certification ranks or facilities jobs over time. 
 

I agree for the unwilling or unable that are destined for a career of minimum wage at best (I believe the unable to be the smallest contingent btw) there continues to be a decline in employment opportunities, but it is somewhat offset with the explosion in service industry jobs, like Uber, Grubhub, etc) 
 

 

This is purely anecdotal but as I stated above, I’m an architect in California. Over the last twenty years I’ve watched as those skilled plumbers and electricians jobs are all being done by people who speak nothing but Spanish on my job sites. It used to be only the landscaping crew spoke Spanish. Now, virtually every trade does. These are Union wage scale construction jobs. Is it that Americans don’t want to do this work? Are we not reinforcing it enough in high school with the drumbeat that everyone has to go to college. Has the balance shifted so far that no American kids want to jump into that Spanish speaking setting? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is purely anecdotal but as I stated above, I’m an architect in California. Over the last twenty years I’ve watched as those skilled plumbers and electricians jobs are all being done by people who speak nothing but Spanish on my job sites. It used to be only the landscaping crew spoke Spanish. Now, virtually every trade does. These are Union wage scale construction jobs. Is it that Americans don’t want to do this work? Are we not reinforcing it enough in high school with the drumbeat that everyone has to go to college. Has the balance shifted so far that no American kids want to jump into that Spanish speaking setting? 

I’m not old enough to be a boomer but in my 23 years of working I have supervised in combination hundreds of interns, college hires, older millennials, first generation Americans, second generation Americans, multiple generation Americans, h1b visa holders, naturalized citizens in the southeast and mid Atlantic us.

 

The opinion I’ve formed is more often than not, multigenerational Americans as a generalization don’t take school very seriously and aren’t interested in working very hard or earning their way to success through hard work, whereas those motivated to uproot their lives to move to a different country, or not far removed from those relatives that did, tend to be the opposite. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not old enough to be a boomer but in my 23 years of working I have supervised in combination hundreds of interns, college hires, older millennials, first generation Americans, second generation Americans, multiple generation Americans, h1b visa holders, naturalized citizens in the southeast and mid Atlantic us.

 

The opinion I’ve formed is more often than not, multigenerational Americans as a generalization don’t take school very seriously and aren’t interested in working very hard or earning their way to success through hard work, whereas those motivated to uproot their lives to move to a different country, or not far removed from those relatives that did, tend to be the opposite. 

This is definitely true as well. We sound like a couple of grumpy old men but I’m concerned that the wealth gap Bernie and others are always talking about is self inflicted...even if unintended. This might be even more exaggerated after the pandemic teaches employers that they can offshore almost all office jobs...since there won’t be any offices! Then what are American kids going to do? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is definitely true as well. We sound like a couple of grumpy old men but I’m concerned that the wealth gap Bernie and others are always talking about is self inflicted...even if unintended. This might be even more exaggerated after the pandemic teaches employers that they can offshore almost all office jobs...since there won’t be any offices! Then what are American kids going to do? 

I think it’s absolutely self inflicted. I’ve always believed as these artificial barriers were removed the us was in for a rude awakening. I’m fine with globalization, but people need to understand what that means.
 

Minimum wage in China is $1.50/hr. We want to raise it to $15?  Well you better be 10 times better than your competitor in China, otherwise you’re losing your job. 

the other part is this is very close to a zero sum game. Since our standard of living is so high, as we equalize, we’ve already got the top of the pyramid, so the only thing that is likely to move at this point is the floor. 
 

in simple terms in American kids need to focus on producing as opposed to consuming. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Unforgiven]

Fine Figure

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Unforgiven

[Thurmal34]

Out of curiousity, have you ever seen the map of what part of our current lower 48 was settled by Spain vs what part was settled by England vs what part was settled by France?

 

sorry guys this was meant for SoCalDeek and NOT in an adversarial way just more of an informative way.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Thurmal34