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Officials reviewed and overturned a non-reviewable play when Allen was ruled out of bounds at the 9 prior to throwing the ball away.


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1 hour ago, sullim4 said:

This is getting a lot of attention in officiating circles.  It's a major administrative error -- misapplication of the rules is usually a death sentence for a playoff assignment for an official.

 

Al Riveron's only role as SVP of officiating is replay.  I would expect him to be the fall guy here, and I would not be at all surprised of Walt Anderson takes over the replay duties next season.

If true, something good would actually come from our game after all.  

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There are a lot of plays that should be reviewable.  That's one.   That being said, if it gets Riveron fired, great.

Whatever the stupid rule is, the decision to overturn it was obviously correct. 

The officials had to have seen the Jones punch. He knocked the Bills lineman down with it. They just chose to overlook it which is ridiculous. It should have been an automatic ejection.

Validation.  I just sent this link out to everybody who thought I was crazy at the party last night.  I said how the heck is that reviewable if Allen would've thrown a touchdown pass but the whistle blew?

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26 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The officials had to have seen the Jones punch. He knocked the Bills lineman down with it. They just chose to overlook it which is ridiculous. It should have been an automatic ejection.

 

They obviously didn't want to have to eject a star player that early in the game. No way they missed it, it was so out in the open.

 

Also, in the spirit of the game, why isn't that reviewable? I understand that you do not want to start awarding all penalties due to review, because that could open up a huge can of worms. But if an action is deemed bad enough for immediate ejection according to the rules (to keep the game safe and in control---and for PR reasons), then shouldn't the league want that player out of the game and therefore allow say throwing a punch or similar to be reviewable for ejection (even if they don't award the penalty as well). I'm pretty sure that they review that stuff in the NBA (was it an incidental elbow or hand or did he purposely tag the guy). Just asking.

 

There are a lot of issues with the NFL's replay system. Al Riveron being the #1 problem. But a close second is what should and shouldn't be reviewable. When an egregious error has been made, it should be correctable. Not bound by a whistle, or a rule. Otherwise, why have replay. Either go back to the call on the field always stands or try to actually fix the bad calls/non-calls. There has to be a way to make horrible calls right without opening the game up to tons of reviews and game stoppage.

Edited by folz
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Just now, Doc Brown said:

Validation.  I just sent this link out to everybody who thought I was crazy at the party last night.  I said how the heck is that reviewable if Allen would've thrown a touchdown pass but the whistle blew?

It may be too nuanced, but the ability to negate lost yards would make sense. I could see why they may change the rule to allow the reversal of the yards lost and changing the pass to an incompletion, but not allow a completed pass to be awarded.

 

That might then create issues where you would have to be able to review intentional grounding in that situation

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14 minutes ago, folz said:

 

They obviously didn't want to have to eject a star player that early in the game. No way they missed it, it was so out in the open.

 

Also, in the spirit of the game, why isn't that reviewable? I understand that you do not want to start awarding all penalties due to review, because that could open up a huge can of worms. But if an action is deemed bad enough for immediate ejection according to the rules (to keep the game safe and in control---and for PR reasons), then shouldn't the league want that player out of the game and therefore allow say throwing a punch or similar to be reviewable for ejection (even if they don't award the penalty as well). I'm pretty sure that they review that stuff in the NBA (was it an incidental elbow or hand or did he purposely tag the guy). Just asking.

 

There are a lot of issues with the NFL's replay system. Al Riveron being the #1 problem. But a close second is what should and shouldn't be reviewable. When an egregious error has been made, it should be correctable. Not bound by a whistle, or a rule. Otherwise, why have replay. Either go back to the call on the field always stands or try to actually fix the bad calls/non-calls. There has to be a way to make horrible calls right without opening the game up to tons of reviews and game stoppage.

Wow looking at it again. It is so flagrant and I doubt Feliciano would fake falling down so it had to have been hard. But here is a question, had Feliciano stayed down and made more of a meal out of it, would the refs have reviewed the incident by replay? Is that kind of issue reviewable? I also wonder why Jones snapped like that at all? Its a pretty dumb thing to do, why so mad?

 

Chris Jones Throws a Punch at Feliciano & Refs Didn't See It | Chiefs vs Bills - YouTube

 

Not sure why Youtube link isnt working?

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1 minute ago, ComeInPeace said:

It may be too nuanced, but the ability to negate lost yards would make sense. I could see why they may change the rule to allow the reversal of the yards lost and changing the pass to an incompletion, but not allow a completed pass to be awarded.

 

That might then create issues where you would have to be able to review intentional grounding in that situation

That's a good tweak of the rules that they should consider.  Intentional grounding is another area they should look at.

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Apparently punching people is a regular thing for Chris Jones! And he was ejected for it 3 years ago. Another odd coincidence, the guy who scored the TD before the PAT that Jones was tossed? TJ Yeldon!

Hopefully the link works

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWkjjck76nQ

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I don't get it. They review whether or not a player stepped out of bounds when making a reception. That can be overturned and deemed a catch. What's the difference? They aren't allowed to review whether or not a QB stepped out of bounds?

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8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

So the head of review in the NFL doesn't even know what is reviewable and what isn't?? It was a league initiated review inside of 2 minutes.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reviewed-non-reviewable-ruling-171349172.html


 

false

 

any play a coach can challenge must be eligible to be reviewed under 2 minutes when they can’t challenge.

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7 hours ago, folz said:

There are a lot of issues with the NFL's replay system. Al Riveron being the #1 problem. But a close second is what should and shouldn't be reviewable. When an egregious error has been made, it should be correctable. Not bound by a whistle, or a rule. Otherwise, why have replay. Either go back to the call on the field always stands or try to actually fix the bad calls/non-calls. There has to be a way to make horrible calls right without opening the game up to tons of reviews and game stoppage.

 

I vote for this.  With the fancy technology and rules and they still get it wrong on a regular basis.  

 

Do you really think they can fix it to make it always right and fair?  I don't.

 

And the frame by frame nonsense has to stop.  

 

Give me 15 minutes back and I'll live with the calls on the field.

 

If they are going to keep it though I would suggest that obvious personal fouls like face masking and helmet to helmet hits in the interest of player safety.

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3 hours ago, djp14150 said:


 

false

 

any play a coach can challenge must be eligible to be reviewed under 2 minutes when they can’t challenge.

 

A coach can't challenge it. That's the point. It is not challengeable under replay rules.

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14 hours ago, Big Turk said:

So the head of review in the NFL doesn't even know what is reviewable and what isn't?? It was a league initiated review inside of 2 minutes.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reviewed-non-reviewable-ruling-171349172.html

 

 

No reason necessarily to think he didn't know.

 

Two possibilities:

 

1) He didn't know, or

 

2) He knew, and did it anyway, figuring it was better to serve the spirit of the rules rather than the letter.

 

They do this every once in a while, like on the play last year where we kicked it off and the returner tossed it towards the ref without officially giving up the play. IMO it made sense to go with the spirit of the game both times.

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14 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

The officials had to have seen the Jones punch. He knocked the Bills lineman down with it. They just chose to overlook it which is ridiculous. It should have been an automatic ejection.

 

Arguably Josh should have been ejected for intentionally throwing the ball at a player's head as well.

While I think the first had more malicious intent, I doubt either were meant to hurt the opposing player and both were momentary frustration actions in a game that requires people to be at an above-normal focus and intensity.

 

I.E. While it's difficult to determine where to draw the line, I don't think either warranted an ejection as neither was likely intended to not would cause injury.

But if you're going to do it for the first (Jones slap), you probably need to do it for the second (Allen ball throw.)

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2 hours ago, timekills17 said:

 

Arguably Josh should have been ejected for intentionally throwing the ball at a player's head as well.

While I think the first had more malicious intent, I doubt either were meant to hurt the opposing player and both were momentary frustration actions in a game that requires people to be at an above-normal focus and intensity.

 

I.E. While it's difficult to determine where to draw the line, I don't think either warranted an ejection as neither was likely intended to not would cause injury.

But if you're going to do it for the first (Jones slap), you probably need to do it for the second (Allen ball throw.)

 

The first is open and shut. If you throw a punch there is no room for interpretation it is an automatic personal foul and disqualification by rule.

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18 hours ago, Big Turk said:

So the head of review in the NFL doesn't even know what is reviewable and what isn't?? It was a league initiated review inside of 2 minutes.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reviewed-non-reviewable-ruling-171349172.html

Seems more like an issue with NFL's archaic rules on what can or can't be reviewed than Al Riveron tbh. Bottom line, they got the call correct, so who cares if it was technically reviewable or not?

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1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

The first is open and shut. If you throw a punch there is no room for interpretation it is an automatic personal foul and disqualification by rule.

 

If there is any flexibility/subjectivity/room for interpretation it's in whether or not they throw the flag. If thrown - it's a punch and gone.

How many times have you seen pushing and shoving and a helmet or facemask get hit in a post-tackle scuffle? 

 

Not arguing this specific time as it was a clearly observable and identifiable single person on a single person. But given the general refrain on flags in the postseason for all manner of events that drew penalties during the regular season, I submit this may not have been missed but (maybe snap) decided that it didn't warrant a flag.

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4 minutes ago, timekills17 said:

 

If there is any flexibility/subjectivity/room for interpretation it's in whether or not they throw the flag. If thrown - it's a punch and gone.

How many times have you seen pushing and shoving and a helmet or facemask get hit in a post-tackle scuffle? 

 

Not arguing this specific time as it was a clearly observable and identifiable single person on a single person. But given the general refrain on flags in the postseason for all manner of events that drew penalties during the regular season, I submit this may not have been missed but (maybe snap) decided that it didn't warrant a flag.

 

Pushing and shoving is different. Once you throw a punch with a closed fist the room for interpretation is gone.

7 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Seems more like an issue with NFL's archaic rules on what can or can't be reviewed than Al Riveron tbh. Bottom line, they got the call correct, so who cares if it was technically reviewable or not?

 

Because now it opens up a whole big can of worms...what if Mahomes is ruled out of bounds in the Super Bowl on a play but throws a TD? What if the ref blew the whistle?

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7 minutes ago, timekills17 said:

 

If there is any flexibility/subjectivity/room for interpretation it's in whether or not they throw the flag. If thrown - it's a punch and gone.

How many times have you seen pushing and shoving and a helmet or facemask get hit in a post-tackle scuffle? 

 

Not arguing this specific time as it was a clearly observable and identifiable single person on a single person. But given the general refrain on flags in the postseason for all manner of events that drew penalties during the regular season, I submit this may not have been missed but (maybe snap) decided that it didn't warrant a flag.

The question I have on this is why can NY help the officials when they are looking at a brawl "to get it right" but can't signal an obvious punch?

 

I was yelling at my TV to signal to the officials that the punch was thrown. I am pretty confident they have the ability to signal this infraction. Does anyone have the official rules pertaining to the fight protocol. Obviously not that it matters cause NY gets these wrong over and over again.

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