Can someone explain the Josh Allen hate from Bomani Jones and Dominique Foxworth??

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why not say he doesn't like "proud boy" type football fans?  What evidence does he have that these types support Josh Allen or are more predominant in Bills Mafia more than any other football team or QB?  Does he think there aren't "proud boy" NE Patriot fans or Atlanta Falcons Fans or Carolina Panthers fans or wherever? 

 

Then take it a step further and associating liking dogs and the American Flag with being a "proud boy" type, which is patently ridiculous.

That's my problem with it

Without actually taking a dive into Kaeps politics, thousands of people showed up to a game with his face in crosshairs...

 

Now local Fox News star Robby Dinero has been called Racist Robby for nearly a decade in fitness circles for nearly a decade. A screen shot of his email was not a surprise to me or anybody else who has known him. Granted that’s one guy, but he’s made national news. 
 

Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the nation and has been for generations. 
 

So when you say “whose to say...” The behavior of Buffalo towards race as a region isn’t spectacular. It’s not outlandish to say Buffalo has a lot of people who aren’t friendly to POC and those people using social media to prop up Josh make it hard to root for him. 
 

Edit: I agree with @C.Biscuit97, Foxworth did a bad job of making his point. If he just came out and said there are too many proud boys tweeting about Josh, it makes it tough for me to root for him. We’d be having a much different discussion. But he got much too cute about it. I doubt the dude hates dogs. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Mango
Add on to clarify

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Clay Travis is a grifter.  He’s a mediocre at best sports guy with terrible takes (see his Covid and sports bets) who hated on ESPN for being too political.  Now he does the same thing but on th other side of the aisle.  At first I thought the guy was a clown but I always respect a guy who finds an easy to manipulate base and he just feeds them meat to get them all fired up.  He starts twitter fights with people who are way more popular than him and hope they respond so he can get his name out there.  I would bet he doesn’t believe half of what he says.  It’s kinda funny. 

Agreed.  Although, that doesn’t change anything I said about him, or the importance of having counter-culture outlets like Outkick.  They are simply poor deliverers of a necessary message.  
 

Edited December 17, 2020 by SCBills

[QLBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, Mango said:

Without actually taking a dive into Kaeps politics, thousands of people showed up to a game with his face in crosshairs...

 

Now local Fox News star Robby Dinero has been called Racist Robby for nearly a decade in fitness circles for nearly a decade. A screen shot of his email was not a surprise to me or anybody else who has known him. Granted that’s one guy, but he’s made national news. 
 

Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the nation and has been for generations. 
 

So when you say “whose to say...” The behavior of Buffalo towards race as a region isn’t spectacular. It’s not outlandish to say Buffalo has a lot of people who aren’t friendly to POC and those people using social media to prop up Josh make it hard to root for him. 

So based on minimal evidence of the racist Bills fans you think it perfectly acceptable for ESPN to support the position of JA fans as racist. Got it !  Do your homework on BJ and please tell me he doesn’t have an anti white agenda. It actually is outlandish to say Bills fans aren’t friendly to POC when you don’t actually have evidence of such. What does this have to do with fans going to a game Kap was at ?

Edited December 17, 2020 by QLBillsFan

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, Mango said:

Without actually taking a dive into Kaeps politics, thousands of people showed up to a game with his face in crosshairs...

 

Now local Fox News star Robby Dinero has been called Racist Robby for nearly a decade in fitness circles for nearly a decade. A screen shot of his email was not a surprise to me or anybody else who has known him. Granted that’s one guy, but he’s made national news. 
 

Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the nation and has been for generations. 
 

So when you say “whose to say...” The behavior of Buffalo towards race as a region isn’t spectacular. It’s not outlandish to say Buffalo has a lot of people who aren’t friendly to POC and those people using social media to prop up Josh make it hard to root for him. 
 

Edit: I agree with @C.Biscuit97, Foxworth did a bad job of making his point. If he just came out and said there are too many proud boys tweeting about Josh, it makes it tough for me to root for him. We’d be having a much different discussion. But he got much too cute about it. I doubt the dude hates dogs. 

Unless you have data showing a disproportionate amount of racists are fans of Josh Allen as compared to the rest of the league you should probably keep your feelings to yourself. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, Mango said:

Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the nation and has been for generations. 

 

Is it?  I just googled.  I found a list of the 9 most segregated cities.  It includes (most to better)

Cleveland

Detroit

Cincinnati

Nashville

Boston

Kansas City MO

 

All of those cities have football teams.  Now maybe they were looking at larger cities, I dunno.  Maybe Buffalo would slot in there.  But you wanna make a bet that one could survey local and social media and not find a "shock jock" or a bunch of "proud boy" type fans following the team in those cities?   Should you take that bet?  Should Foxworth?

 

If there's a point I think people would like us to take from the events of this year, it's that racism is alive and well all across the country, and no area ought to be patting itself on the back at being superior.  You made that point well about "liberal" San Francisco and behavior towards Kaepernick.

 

Quote

Edit: I agree with @C.Biscuit97, Foxworth did a bad job of making his point. If he just came out and said there are too many proud boys tweeting about Josh, it makes it tough for me to root for him. We’d be having a much different discussion. But he got much too cute about it. I doubt the dude hates dogs. 

 

Has he had anything to say about football players on other teams who actively went about "liking" racist tweets in college and saying sketchy things on social media? How many "proud boys" tweet about the Bosas if he went looking, and would it make it difficult for him to root for them or their teams? 

 

I'm not saying he has an obligation to conduct a careful objective study, but it's a fair point that he may well be dealing with confirmation bias or the "horns effect" - and he needs to recognize that these are part of discriminatory practices I'm sure he would disavow and criticize.  So why is it OK for him?

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Unless you have data showing a disproportionate amount of racists are fans of Josh Allen as compared to the rest of the league you should probably keep your feelings to yourself. 

I don’t get this. I am a fan of Josh. He’s proven my last two years of criticism wrong. I don’t consider myself racist. I don’t consider all Josh Allen fans racist. But the view of Buffalo as a region (not just a fan base) from the outside can be understandably racist. 
 

These aren’t feelings these are actual facts:

 

-Thousands of Bills fans showed up to a game with Kaeps face in cross hairs because they didn’t like his politics regarding POC. It’s a thing that happened and not really debatable. It is relevant here because it’s largely how Foxworth is viewing the fan base with his comments. 
 

-Robby Dinero has been called “Racist Robby” by other owners, S&C coaches, etc. around Buffalo for almost a decade now. It’s not a feeling. Its true. He’s the latest reason Buffalo made national news. Recency co-signs past behavior with current news about the city. 
 

-Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the country. That’s not a feeling. Literally true. Depending on source it is the 10-20 range. 
 

The point is, it’s not a far leap for somebody to look at Buffalo along with their interactions with some of those fans on Twitter, and think Buffalo has a real issue with POC. 
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don’t get this. I am a fan of Josh. He’s proven my last two years of criticism wrong. I don’t consider myself racist. I don’t consider all Josh Allen fans racist. But the view of Buffalo as a region (not just a fan base) from the outside can be understandably racist. 
 

These aren’t feelings these are actual facts:

 

-Thousands of Bills fans showed up to a game with Kaeps face in cross hairs because they didn’t like his politics regarding POC. It’s a thing that happened and not really debatable. It is relevant here because it’s largely how Foxworth is viewing the fan base with his comments. 
 

-Robby Dinero has been called “Racist Robby” by other owners, S&C coaches, etc. around Buffalo for almost a decade now. It’s not a feeling. Its true. He’s the latest reason Buffalo made national news. Recency co-signs past behavior with current news about the city. 
 

-Buffalo is one of the most segregated cities in the country. That’s not a feeling. Literally true. Depending on source it is the 10-20 range. 
 

The point is, it’s not a far leap for somebody to look at Buffalo along with their interactions with some of those fans on Twitter, and think Buffalo has a real issue with POC.

 

So what other cities in that 1-10 range have football teams?  See above.

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what other cities in that 1-10 range have football teams?  See above.

 

Similarly, what other cities have racist shock jocks? What other fanbases wore terrible Kaepernick shirts? It’s a disingenuous argument he’s making.

[Billznut]

The saddest part of all of this as it relates to Bills fans is we are talking and in some cases, arguing with each other as to what level of the Buffalo area is racist, and now our focus and maybe some national focus will be on that instead of what IS a fact, that Bills fans are unquestionably a top 5 fan base in the NFL and the most recent proof being the $700k+ donated as a tribute to Allen’s grandmother. Instead we are talking about something we have NOTHING to do with all because some ESPN idiot decided he wanted to start crap for no reason. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Billznut

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

23 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don’t consider myself racist. I don’t consider all Josh Allen fans racist.

What an asinine comment.  Do you consider Aaron Rogers to have any racist fans? How about Lamar Jackson, does he have any racist fans?  Or is it just Josh Allen?  And what proof do you have of Josh’s racist fans because based on your statement, he clearly has some.  Are you charting which fan bases are the most racist!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Similarly, what other cities have racist shock jocks? What other fanbases wore terrible Kaepernick shirts? It’s a disingenuous argument he’s making.

 

I want to back off a couple steps and make what I think is a valid point, because it's a place where I myself have fallen down at different times in my life.

 

It does take all of us to effect change. 

 

What I think would be constructive is if Domonique Foxworthy stuck closer to the facts.  Said what happened -  maybe something like "I was looking social media praising Josh Allen, and That's Some ***** there - disturbingly racist likes and tweets in a bunch of histories.  I can't tell you if other team's social media is like that or not but man! if you're a fan, and you see someone using racist epiphets or dog whistling - call it out.  Because if you let it slide, you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.  It was disturbing to me, personally, and makes it hard for me to root for Allen even though it doesn't seem to be something Allen perpetuates or supports in any way."

 

I think few of us would have a problem with that at all.

 

But when the reaction to unacceptable stuff is to generalize, maybe apply confirmation bias and so forth - the reaction is part of the problem, and in a way perpetuates it.

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what other cities in that 1-10 range have football teams?  See above.

 

 

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Similarly, what other cities have racist shock jocks? What other fanbases wore terrible Kaepernick shirts? It’s a disingenuous argument he’s making.

Whatabout-isms at their finest! What about Chicago? What about radio guys elsewhere? Come on....

 

Its not being brought up because it’s not the topic. The topic was Allen’s ascension this season, not Bakers, etc. And those fan bases didn’t make national news for treating Kaep the worst in the league. They also haven’t been on national news lately with a racist business owner telling their customers that they were filthy, third world, pieces of poo in the last few weeks. 

Guys, it’s not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region. That’s it. Simple as that. 
 

So maybe instead of throwing out a million whataboutisms to deflect to other cities that aren’t a point of discussion, either of you just say, “those people suck, and it’s a shame that our fan base has a-holes on the internet (and in our community) that makes some people have a tough time rooting for us. They take away from some of the great things this region is capable of”
 

The deflection here is the most disingenuous part of this conversation. Aaron Rodgers, Cleveland, it doesn’t matter. 
 

 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Unless you have data showing a disproportionate amount of racists are fans of Josh Allen as compared to the rest of the league you should probably keep your feelings to yourself. 

Its not that they're disproportionately racist.  Bills fans are disproportionately thin skinned, belligerents, with inferiority complexes, who actively seek out slights, real or perceived, against their city, football team, and QB and have now developed a reputation for freaking out at sports related personalities.  And if you spend a few minutes cruising the average profile of a BillsMafia member who is telling you to kill yourself your chances of finding highly enlightened political opinions are high.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Jauronimo

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what other cities in that 1-10 range have football teams?  See above.

 

 

 

The fans of those other cities teams aren't famous for doing crazy Bills Mafia culture things(like smashing thru flaming tables) either though.     

 

A common theme in racism is a fear/rejection of culture.

 

Some black people see what mostly-white Bills fans are filmed doing and their extreme allegiance to the team and town and think "why?".  And they think they would be arrested if they did something like that etc..

 

It's just another form of intolerance.  

 

Every race is capable of having biases..........Foxworth admits that as if it should be accepted and OK............but in today's culture it is not OK to be honest about that.  

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Whatabout-isms at their finest! What about Chicago? What about radio guys elsewhere? Come on....

 

Its not being brought up because it’s not the topic. The topic was Allen’s ascension this season, not Bakers, etc. And those fan bases didn’t make national news for treating Kaep the worst in the league. They also haven’t been on national news lately with a racist business owner telling their customers that they were filthy, third world, pieces of poo in the last few weeks. 

Guys, it’s not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region. That’s it. Simple as that. 
 

So maybe instead of throwing out a million whataboutisms to deflect to other cities that aren’t a point of discussion, either of you just say, “those people suck, and it’s a shame that our fan base has a-holes on the internet (and in our community) that makes some people have a tough time rooting for us. They take away from some of the great things this region is capable of”
 

The deflection here is the most disingenuous part of this conversation. Aaron Rodgers, Cleveland, it doesn’t matter. 
 

 

There is a place for this argument but all these media personalities have proven thus far is they lack the intellectual capacity to carry it.

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not their disproportionately racist.  Bills fans are disproportionately thin skinned, belligerents, with inferiority complexes, who actively seek out slights, real or perceived, against their city, football team, and QB and have now developed a reputation for freaking out at sports related personalities.  

I think you just described the NFL fan base in total.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Mango said:

Whatabout-isms at their finest! What about Chicago? What about radio guys elsewhere? Come on....

 

Its not being brought up because it’s not the topic. The topic was Allen’s ascension this season, not Bakers, etc. And those fan bases didn’t make national news for treating Kaep the worst in the league. They also haven’t been on national news lately with a racist business owner telling their customers that they were filthy, third world, pieces of poo in the last few weeks. 

Guys, it’s not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region. That’s it. Simple as that. 
 

So maybe instead of throwing out a million whataboutisms to deflect to other cities that aren’t a point of discussion, either of you just say, “those people suck, and it’s a shame that our fan base has a-holes on the internet (and in our community) that makes some people have a tough time rooting for us. They take away from some of the great things this region is capable of”
 

The deflection here is the most disingenuous part of this conversation. Aaron Rodgers, Cleveland, it doesn’t matter.

 

I think you're missing a point yourself, Mango, and it's an important one, so I'll go out on a limb here and try to make it.

 

How exactly do you think prejudice originates?  It originates, I believe, in people's experience.  Humans have fantastic innate pattern matching ability and ability to generalize from those perceived patterns.  These are positive survival traits - "don't eat plants with leaves like that" "people with that physical appearance belong to the tribe that's trying to capture our people and take our lands". 

 

Where they become negative, is when we're all one world, all part of one society, yet we're judging other people based on their membership in a group.  Maybe it's a group we personally had a negative experience with - someone of that skin color was a difficult employee, hostile and inefficient.  Someone of that religion did us wrong.  So we generalize, and associate those traits with all people of that skin color or religion.  That's an example of racism or prejudice, and it's wrong.  Period.

 

You're giving examples of racist behavior from a Buffalo business owner in the news.  Apparently Foxworthy, scrolling through social media, found some racist Bills fans.  I'm sure they're there - they're everywhere.  It's entirely appropriate to call that out as he sees it.  AS HE SEES IT.

 

Yet by accepting it as appropriate to generalize and apply it to a whole group of people - Buffalo, Bills fans, Allen supporters - "Its not that hard to see how somebody could get to a spot where they think Buffalo is an inherently racist region" - Foxworthy (and your defense) are doing fundamentally the same thing that generates prejudice and racism in the first place -using our fantastic innate human pattern matching ability and generalizing from one or a handful of observations, to a whole group. 

 

And that's also wrong.  And people get upset about it, and then it deflects from the root problem, which is, as you allude to - that there are sucky people among us.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

There is a place for this argument but all these media personalities have proven thus far is they lack the intellectual capacity to carry it.

I think you just described the NFL fan base in total.

Bills Mafia literally started with a bunch of Twitter Warriors who banded together to fight Adam Schefter.  I don't think every fan base has that distinction.  Then there's the dude who made the news by flying to Baltimore to "confront" a radio host.  

[MJS]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This whole thing is embarrassing. Reading some of the tweets, some idiot Bills fans just proved him right on the racist stuff.  I wish more fans would call out Those idiots. 
 

I think the original point is that for a while a guy who plays like Allen, If black, would be questioned about his long term ability to play quarterback.  That the white guy with questionable production against not great college competition while the Heisman trophy winning qb falls and gets talked about moving positions.  And through 2 years there was some truth in that.  A counter I would say in regards to Allen is he was a very criticized player.

 

as someone who has been skeptical of Allen through 2 years, IMO, there is absolutely nothing to question him about except maybe seeing how he does in the playoffs.  Dude has answer every question I have had about him and exceed as a player more than I ever imagine.  It doesn’t matter but I’m as proud of him as any player I have watched.  And the thing I really appreciate it is he didn’t get sensitive about it.  
 

I never got the need for fans to get so angry at people’s opinions.  I’m just throughly enjoying the season and see nothing negative about it.  But we do have some loser fans who take everything person and they make us look bad. Right now, Foxworth and Jones have been proven wrong on Allen.  That’s all that matters.  But there are those losers who say embarrassing things that we should never have associated with our fanbase. Obviously, it’s minority of idiots but I’d like to think we call out those losers.  Some fans get more mad s our this that Allen, who is laughing about it.  It’s weird. But don’t make us all look bad.

Yeah, well it's twitter. Twitter is the home for idiots to voice their idiot opinions to the world. Certainly you have those for Bills fans and fans for all other teams as well.

 

But ... I do fear that Bills fans in general are getting a little annoying. They attack anyone with a contrary opinion (doesn't matter if they are right or wrong) and they just seem to have really thin skin. And they enjoy rubbing it in other people's faces when they are proven right. That's supreme annoyance, right there. And of course the majority of fans aren't necessarily like that, but the twitter group of fans seems to be, and those are the ones seen and heard. And, I see it getting worse as the Bills get better. Like they see a need to unload their multi-decade frustration on everyone else. So if things continue, I think other fan bases will quickly see Bills fans as the worst, most annoying fan base in the league (albeit a charitable bunch).

 

Now, making assumptions about Bills fans and their political leanings and if they are or aren't racist is taking it way, WAY to far. And really dumb. You can't make broad sweeping judgements about any large group of people like that. Doing so just makes you look dumb.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Bills Mafia literally started with a bunch of Twitter Warriors who banded together to fight Adam Schefter.  I don't think every fan base has that distinction.  Then there's the dude who made the news by flying to Baltimore to "confront" a radio host.  

Do you understand I’ve waited 2.5 long years to have my Josh Allen analyses validated and these chuckleheads are preventing my full realization? Thin skinned or no I need relief already.

[MJS]

26 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not that they're disproportionately racist.  Bills fans are disproportionately thin skinned, belligerents, with inferiority complexes, who actively seek out slights, real or perceived, against their city, football team, and QB and have now developed a reputation for freaking out at sports related personalities.  And if you spend a few minutes cruising the average profile of a BillsMafia member who is telling you to kill yourself your chances of finding highly enlightened political opinions are high.

I agree totally on the first part about Bills fans being thin skinned. I don't quite see eye to eye with you on your point about political enlightenment.

 

So you're saying that if you look at a few profiles of Bills fans and they happen to lean a certain way politically that it makes sense to condemn ALL Bills fans? Nobody in their right mind would do that. Right? That's just a supremely small sample size. You could spend weeks looking at profiles and not even scratch the surface for a fan base, especially the LARGE portions who don't even regularly use social media.