How are you going to vote this time around compared to last time?

[BillStime]

 

[Koko78]

59 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

After the election in 2016 the conventional wisdom was all Hillary needed to do was not insult half the electorate by calling them deplorables and she very likely would have won.  It didn't affect my vote as I went third party in 2016 and disliked Trump and Hillary equally.

 

If Trump wins again the conventional wisdom will be... all they needed to do was not spy on Trump's campaign and then attempt a soft coup once he took office.  I very strongly dislike Donald Trump the person, but the Dems managed to criminally !@#$ up so badly this time that it's actually made it easy for me to vote for him and not vote 3rd party again.

 

 

 

I think it was a combination of the deplorables comment, and running a victory lap instead of a campaign.

 

If she had paid even a little attention to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc., instead of taking the 'blue wall' for granted, she would have easily won.

[3rdnlng]

Back in 2016 there were many people not sure that if Trump won if he would tank the economy, start wars or ban abortions or not. There was a great bit of uncertainty  about him and I believe that there were many votes that went against him because of that uncertainty. Well, in 2020 the downside has been taken away. I doubt that there are many people who honestly and legitimately fear what he might do on a macro basis that would harm this country. It's come down to a battle between his policies vs the extent that the Left can paint him as some kind of traitor, puppet of Putin and Seducer-In-Chief.

[Magox]

Assuming people are being honest with their answers, so far here on PPP there are a net +10 votes for Trump this time around as opposed to the last election.  And for Biden a net + 2 votes over Hillary.

 

I think this could be a small microcosm of turnout in regards to Trump.  I know of plenty of people that don't really like him but believe the left has gone absolutely bat ***** crazy and are willing to vote for Trump this time around.  I know it's anecdotal but I'm seeing it a lot.   Just PPP alone there is a net + 10.  Quite a few PPP board members will be voting Trump for the first time.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Magox

[BillStime]

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

Assuming people are being honest with their answers, so far here on PPP there are a net +10 votes for Trump this time around this time as opposed to the last election.  And for Biden a net + 2 votes over Hillary.

 

I think this could be a small microcosm of turnout in regards to Trump.  I know of plenty of people that don't really like him but believe has gone absolutely bat ***** crazy and are willing to vote for Trump this time around.  I know it's anecdotal but I'm seeing it a lot.   Just PPP alone there is a net + 10.  Quite a few PPP board members will be voting Trump for the first time.

 

I think the number of people who are silently going to vote for Trump is a lot larger than last time.  You're taking your life into your own hands if you mention it.

[Chef Jim]

Twice......at least. 

[3rdnlng]

BRINGING UP THE USPS IN EVERY THREAD IS CRUSADING.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:59 PM, Magox said:

I'm curious to know how people on PPP are looking to vote this time compared to last time.   I voted for the goofball Gary Johnson last time around out of protest.  This time I plan on voting against the left by pulling the lever for Trump.

I voted for DJT last time and will again.

 

I've voted conservative and party line for as long as I can remember.  In this case, when Trump announced, I laughed and thought what a joke it was.  For whatever it's worth, I thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle of "The Apprentice" early on, wanted Trump to have nothing to do with the Bills, and had no plan on voting for him at all.  

 

In fact--before the candidate field was finalized, I briefly considered a Biden vote if it came to it.  Clinton is a skunk, that was never going to happen.  The thought of another Bush in office made my skin crawl, though only after they checked his pulse to see if he was alive.  Cruz was a maybe, Rubio a blech, and Trump was Trump.  

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

I know of plenty of people that don't really like him but believe the left has gone absolutely bat ***** crazy and are willing to vote for Trump this time around.

 

This is something that have leftists stumped. As a party that requires you to abandon all independent thought, the left will overwhelmingly tell you they LOVE Biden and will gladly vote for him. You rarely, if ever, hear a leftist suggest, "Well, I don't like Biden, the person, oer the fact that he's been in office over 40 years and has literally nothing to show for it,, but he still gets my vote."

 

What I will be curious to see is how badly Biden/Harris lose the Bernie vote. They have Bernie writing some policy for them, but I think the Bernie Bros are smarter than that and will turn on BIden/Harris simply because they're disappointed that Bernie folded again. Perhaps @RealKayAdams can lend some of her insight.

[ComradeKayAdams]

Interesting results! Tells us a lot about this message board, if not much about the election. Sorta like a PPP “census,” showing at least 61 message board participants. Heavily skewed to the political right (43 for Trump, 10 for Biden, 8 elsewhere). No crossover voting between the two major parties, but notable healthy skepticism toward notions of party loyalty. I’d love to see data for location, age, income level, and education level with this poll. Wow…am I really the most far-left person here?? No market socialists lurking around these parts? EDIT: Oooh up to 43 for Trump this morning!

 

I happily voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and will reluctantly vote for Howie Hawkins in 2020. My “reluctant” support of the Green Party is because I’m uncomfortable rubber-stamping Howie’s despicable Russiagating.

 

I’ll only eventually return to the Democrats on the highly unlikely condition that Progressive Caucus members take over the party. The DNC has made it perfectly clear that they’d rather have Trump again than have anyone from the proper left threaten the oligarchical status quo. The Kamala Harris VP selection, which was fairly PREDICTABLE if you followed the big donor trail since 2017 and the fawning mainstream media from last year, certifies how Democrats envisage themselves in the 2020’s: a party for warmongering corporatist sociopathic leaders and for the professional/managerial class that exclusively benefit from these policies. And when I say “predictable,” that’s also partly because the swift suspension of Kamala’s once reputed campaign in early December always felt more like the result of a backroom deal (Hillary…?!), as opposed to the singular campaign mismanagement excuse we were given. I have no evidence at all to support this claim…just a gut feeling. Though I’m sure Kamala’s arch-nemesis, Tulsi, understands that feeling.

 

I can’t imagine ever voting for a Republican, unless it’s an unusual protest vote dilemma…or there is some radical unforeseen realignment in American politics where genuine nouveau political populism emerges on that side.

 

On 8/11/2020 at 5:00 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

I wrote in Gabbard in '16. 

 

Excellent choice, DR. May the spirit of “aloha” continue to be with you.

 

On 8/12/2020 at 12:09 AM, Paulus said:

I would say that it would be interesting if Trump changed his running mate to Tulsi Gabbard. 

 

YES that would make the VP debate must-see TV!!! Congresswoman Gabbard would also be an amazing Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense in Trump’s Cabinet. She may still eventually become President for this broken, divided country. Very JFK-like. But after seeing the way all shades of the political spectrum attacked Tulsi during the past year, maybe we don’t deserve her? Ok, actually the right wingers weren’t that bad. The Hillary cacklers were by far the worst, followed by the Warren Witches and a sizable portion of the Bernie Bros. I was ready to switch my NYC campaign volunteer allegiance from Bernie to Tulsi until she suspended her campaign in mid-March…and then Covid-19 struck us hard…sigh…

 

On 8/12/2020 at 8:27 AM, Bill from NYC said:

I have more respect for Bernie Sanders than for that schmuck.

 

That would have been an effective campaign slogan in many places: “Bernie 2020. More integrity than Kasich 2016.”

 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 3:32 AM, Doc Brown said:

I'd be interested to hear opinions on here about NY adapting Maine and Nebraska's system of dividing up electoral votes by congressional district.

 

I like it! As it stands, NYC metro politics completely dominate the state with its population of 13.5 million versus Upstate NY’s 6 million. Dividing electoral college votes by congressional district would finally give the good people up north some presidential voting representation. Gerrymandering rules complicate matters, but that’s yet another reason to justify revisiting gerrymandering rules.

 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 4:44 PM, IDBillzFan said:

What I will be curious to see is how badly Biden/Harris lose the Bernie vote. They have Bernie writing some policy for them, but I think the Bernie Bros are smarter than that and will turn on BIden/Harris simply because they're disappointed that Bernie folded again. Perhaps @RealKayAdams can lend some of her insight.

 

Hmmm…I don’t anticipate the Harris selection rocking the Bernie Boat any more than it was already rocked. Everyone already knew Biden would choose a prominent female woman of color disappointingly far to the right of Nina Turner. A few were hoping for Liz Warren, but those few weren’t paying close enough attention to which way the centrist political winds blow (insert Kamala joke here). Warren is also badly needed in the Senate. Her potential “kingmaking” seat would have otherwise temporarily opened for whomever the Republican governor of Massachusetts would have selected. Some Bernie Bros tepidly preferred Karen Bass because they couldn’t stand the personalities of the other major VP candidates.

 

The overall vast majority of progressive leftists (Bernie Bros + Warren Witches) view this election (erroneously, IMO) from a classic “lesser of two evils” strategic perspective, whereby the Bernies and the Warrens will theoretically have a lot more access and influence on a Biden/Harris ticket. Neither Biden nor Harris is widely perceived to have strong political convictions, and both have acquired reputations for following popular polling trends. Warren’s people especially love the Kamala pick because they tend to view everything more from a race/gender/religion/sexual orientation identity lens and love the weaponization of PC politics that she will deliver. The Bernie people see politics more from a socioeconomic class lens and view Kamala with extreme caution, but we have our PC proclivities as well and still tend to despise Trump above all else in this world.

 

My latest Election Day breakdown for the Bernie Bros: 78% sticking with Biden, 10% staying home, 8% going Green/DSA, 4% for Trump. And I’ll do the Warren Witches too: 92% for Biden, 6% staying home, 2% Green. These are my own predictions based on scientific polling trends, unscientific internal Bernie campaign canvassing data from the primaries, and lots of personal anecdotes. I expect these approximate numbers to hold steady, so long as the following don’t happen which would suppress voter turnout in obvious blue states: a second wave of Covid-19 flare-ups, Biden tanking the debates because of dementia, and the economy tanking from a collapse in consumer spending. Far less predictable and far more interesting to the election outcome are the independent voters, the 2016 Trump-voting Boomers/female suburbanites worried about Covid-19, and African-American males. Speaking strictly in terms of political strategy, it admittedly makes a lot more sense for Biden/Harris to go after these groups instead of the mostly settled Bernie Bro contingent.

Edited August 17, 2020 by RealKayAdams

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, RealKayAdams said:

Interesting results! Tells us a lot about this message board, if not much about the election. Sorta like a PPP “census,” showing at least 61 message board participants. Heavily skewed to the political right (43 for Trump, 10 for Biden, 8 elsewhere). No crossover voting between the two major parties, but notable healthy skepticism toward notions of party loyalty. I’d love to see data for location, age, income level, and education level with this poll. Wow…am I really the most far-left person here?? No market socialists lurking around these parts? EDIT: Oooh up to 43 for Trump this morning!

 

I happily voted for Jill Stein in 2016 and will reluctantly vote for Howie Hawkins in 2020. My “reluctant” support of the Green Party is because I’m uncomfortable rubber-stamping Howie’s despicable Russiagating.

 

I’ll only eventually return to the Democrats on the highly unlikely condition that Progressive Caucus members take over the party. The DNC has made it perfectly clear that they’d rather have Trump again than have anyone from the proper left threaten the oligarchical status quo. The Kamala Harris VP selection, which was fairly PREDICTABLE if you followed the big donor trail since 2017 and the fawning mainstream media from last year, certifies how Democrats envisage themselves in the 2020’s: a party for warmongering corporatist sociopathic leaders and for the professional/managerial class that exclusively benefit from these policies. And when I say “predictable,” that’s also partly because the swift suspension of Kamala’s once reputed campaign in early December always felt more like the result of a backroom deal (Hillary…?!), as opposed to the singular campaign mismanagement excuse we were given. I have no evidence at all to support this claim…just a gut feeling. Though I’m sure Kamala’s arch-nemesis, Tulsi, understands that feeling.

 

I can’t imagine ever voting for a Republican, unless it’s an unusual protest vote dilemma…or there is some radical unforeseen realignment in American politics where genuine nouveau political populism emerges on that side.

 

 

Excellent choice, DR. May the spirit of “aloha” continue to be with you.

 

 

YES that would make the VP debate must-see TV!!! Congresswoman Gabbard would also be an amazing Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense in Trump’s Cabinet. She may still eventually become President for this broken, divided country. Very JFK-like. But after seeing the way all shades of the political spectrum attacked Tulsi during the past year, maybe we don’t deserve her? Ok, actually the right wingers weren’t that bad. The Hillary cacklers were by far the worst, followed by the Warren Witches and a sizable portion of the Bernie Bros. I was ready to switch my NYC campaign volunteer allegiance from Bernie to Tulsi until she suspended her campaign in mid-March…and then Covid-19 struck us hard…sigh…

 

 

That would have been an effective campaign slogan in many places: “Bernie 2020. More integrity than Kasich 2016.”

 

 

 

I like it! As it stands, NYC metro politics completely dominate the state with its population of 13.5 million versus Upstate NY’s 6 million. Dividing electoral college votes by congressional district would finally give the good people up north some presidential voting representation. Gerrymandering rules complicate matters, but that’s yet another reason to justify revisiting gerrymandering rules.

 

 

 

Hmmm…I don’t anticipate the Harris selection rocking the Bernie Boat any more than it was already rocked. Everyone already knew Biden would choose a prominent female woman of color disappointingly far to the right of Nina Turner. A few were hoping for Liz Warren, but those few weren’t paying close enough attention to which way the centrist political winds blow (insert Kamala joke here). Warren is also badly needed in the Senate. Her potential “kingmaking” seat would have otherwise temporarily opened for whomever the Republican governor of Massachusetts would have selected. Some Bernie Bros tepidly preferred Karen Bass because they couldn’t stand the personalities of the other major VP candidates.

 

The overall vast majority of progressive leftists (Bernie Bros + Warren Witches) view this election (erroneously, IMO) from a classic “lesser of two evils” strategic perspective, whereby the Bernies and the Warrens will theoretically have a lot more access and influence on a Biden/Harris ticket. Neither Biden nor Harris is widely perceived to have strong political convictions, and both have acquired reputations for following popular polling trends. Warren’s people especially love the Kamala pick because they tend to view everything more from a race/gender/religion/sexual orientation identity lens and love the weaponization of PC politics that she will deliver. The Bernie people see politics more from a socioeconomic class lens and view Kamala with extreme caution, but we have our PC proclivities as well and still tend to despise Trump above all else in this world.

 

My latest Election Day breakdown for the Bernie Bros: 78% sticking with Biden, 10% staying home, 8% going Green/DSA, 4% for Trump. And I’ll do the Warren Witches too: 92% for Biden, 6% staying home, 2% Green. These are my own predictions based on scientific polling trends, unscientific internal Bernie campaign canvassing data from the primaries, and lots of personal anecdotes. I expect these approximate numbers to hold steady, so long as the following don’t happen which would suppress voter turnout in obvious blue states: a second wave of Covid-19 flare-ups, Biden tanking the debates because of dementia, and the economy tanking from a collapse in consumer spending. Far less predictable and far more interesting to the election outcome are the independent voters, the 2016 Trump-voting Boomers/female suburbanites worried about Covid-19, and African-American males. Speaking strictly in terms of political strategy, it admittedly makes a lot more sense for Biden/Harris to go after these groups instead of the mostly settled Bernie Bro contingent.

Interesting, but not at all surprising that President Trump get more support (however little) from Sanders supporters than from Warren's people. The President really did call her out on the Native American thing to the point that it was hysterical. Seriously, that could have been the funniest political scenario in the history of America, complete with Warren apologizing to various tribes. I mean really.....

 

Your comment about NY being divided ala Maine was fascinating. It will never happen but it would be great if it did, and quite fair imo.

 

Oh, and no; you are NOT the most far left person here because you have an open mind. You also make sense. Farthest to the left? Not even close.

[LeviF]

I did not vote in 2016 and will not vote this time around.

 

I was encouraged by Trump's selection of advisors and appointees early on.  But his turning on Bannon, Sessions, and the like while retaining idiots like Kushner convinced me for now that this is not an "America first" administration.  I appreciate Greg's take on the situation and I suppose we will see, should Trump get a second term and the Senate holds.  Admittedly between work and personal things I can't keep up with the different views as much as I'd like.

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, LeviF91 said:

I did not vote in 2016 and will not vote this time around.

 

I was encouraged by Trump's selection of advisors and appointees early on.  But his turning on Bannon, Sessions, and the like while retaining idiots like Kushner convinced me for now that this is not an "America first" administration.  I appreciate Greg's take on the situation and I suppose we will see, should Trump get a second term and the Senate holds.  Admittedly between work and personal things I can't keep up with the different views as much as I'd like.

I think that you may be either not getting the news or getting it way too late up there in Wasilla. Kushner is not an idiot like some of the people Trump originally hired. Progress has been made in the ME due to his efforts. Bannon was never a team player and Sessions was eventually replaced with a far superior AG. Early on in Trump's administration he ended up with people who were not loyal to him and had their own agenda. It took some time to weed them out and sometimes he had to replace a position multiple times but things have settled down and I think he has a damned good team now. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 hours ago, LeviF91 said:

I did not vote in 2016 and will not vote this time around.

 

I was encouraged by Trump's selection of advisors and appointees early on.  But his turning on Bannon, Sessions, and the like while retaining idiots like Kushner convinced me for now that this is not an "America first" administration.  I appreciate Greg's take on the situation and I suppose we will see, should Trump get a second term and the Senate holds.  Admittedly between work and personal things I can't keep up with the different views as much as I'd like.

You musta missed the news that Kushner has brought about peace in the Middle East. We should have more “idiots” like him working on behalf of the country.  

 

 

[LeviF]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

You musta missed the news that Kushner has brought about peace in the Middle East. We should have more “idiots” like him working on behalf of the country.  

 

 

 

I honestly couldn't care less about the ME.  That an advocate for immigration amnesty and criminal justice "reform" has his claws firmly embedded in this administration is enough for me to say "no thanks."

[Numark3]

I won't be voting this time around.  Been awhile since that was the plan.  Both candidates have qualities that disqualify them imo

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Crayola64 said:

I won't be voting this time around.  Been awhile since that was the plan.  Both candidates have qualities that disqualify them imo

 

 

That's true for every election.  But like I asked Golden Goat, do you think one has more qualities that disqualify him and if so, are you OK seeing the other guy win?

[fansince88]

Just want to bump this before tonight's debate. I find it an interesting poll

[LB3]

Abstained in 2016 after Cruz didn't get the nomination. I didn't like Trump and would not vote for what the Dem party had become (they're even worse now). It also didn't matter in NY.

 

This time I'll be voting Trump in person. I ordered a Trump 2020 Chinese Flu mask just to wear to the polling station.