machine gun kelly Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Billieve, that’s why I really think both Davis and Hodgins have a great shot. I can see D. Williams getting the PS though, and think he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I think Duke getting a chance last year was a nice story, and his TD against the Titans was great. That said, he is what he is — a big guy who isn’t very fast, doesn’t get great separation, and couldn’t crack a Bills’ lineup yearning for a “tough catch” guy for most of the year. When he got his big chance in the playoffs and Josh looked his way it was a disappointment. It will be a shock to me if he makes this team given who the Bills drafted and with the addition of Diggs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, eball said: I think Duke getting a chance last year was a nice story, and his TD against the Titans was great. That said, he is what he is — a big guy who isn’t very fast, doesn’t get great separation, and couldn’t crack a Bills’ lineup yearning for a “tough catch” guy for most of the year. When he got his big chance in the playoffs and Josh looked his way it was a disappointment. It will be a shock to me if he makes this team given who the Bills drafted and with the addition of Diggs. I love Duke's story, so I've been a Duke fan. But putting that aside, I think what you say is short-sighted. I think "he is what he is" is wrong. He was, essentially, a rookie last season. Yeah, he'd been in an NFL camp once before, and yeah he played in Canada, but Canadian football is more like glorified college ball, and Duke didn't have much of a college career. So he was like a rookie, or rookie+ last season. Look for a minute at all of Dawson Knox's ugly moments last season. That's what rookies play like. Knox saw more time than Duke because he had no competition at TE, so he had more opportunities to make plays and drop passes. We're all excited about what we think will be natural improvement for Knox, and I think we'll see Duke get better, also. So to say Duke is what he is isn't correct. He will be better this season than he was last season. Now, of course, he needs to be much better, because Diggs is taking one of the receiver slots, Roberts is more or less a lock, so there are two or maybe three slots left. One or more of those slots requires a serious special teams contribution, and Duke hasn't shown that he can be that guy. But he has one big thing going for him, and that is that his biggest competition should come from the rookies, and the rookies will have very limited opportunity to prove themselves this month. At least one of them has to be a real stand out, because Duke will not go quietly, and because in this season it's a big risk to go with unproven (rookie) talent. There's a good chance there will be more injuries than usual, and there's also the chance of losing guys to COVID-19. Coaches are going to want reserves they know can count on, and rookies beyond the third round usually can't be counted on. If Duke shows the natural improvement I expect he will, he will send a message to McDermott that says he can be counted on. Plus, McDermott wants guys with Duke's intensity and competitiveness. Any receiver fighting for a backup role will have to bring it at the same level or more. The rookies have one month of camp to prove they have it. I think it's way too early to count Duke out. Ordinary spring and summer, maybe. This summer, it's different. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Surprised they let King go over Nick Easley or even Duke himself. With all of our WR's returning from last season and the additions of Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, and Isaiah Hodgins - i'd be shocked if Duke or especially Easley made the squad. They must feel pretty comfortable rolling with 5 CB's and Dane Jackson being the 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I love Duke's story, so I've been a Duke fan. But putting that aside, I think what you say is short-sighted. I think "he is what he is" is wrong. He was, essentially, a rookie last season. Yeah, he'd been in an NFL camp once before, and yeah he played in Canada, but Canadian football is more like glorified college ball, and Duke didn't have much of a college career. So he was like a rookie, or rookie+ last season. Look for a minute at all of Dawson Knox's ugly moments last season. That's what rookies play like. Knox saw more time than Duke because he had no competition at TE, so he had more opportunities to make plays and drop passes. We're all excited about what we think will be natural improvement for Knox, and I think we'll see Duke get better, also. So to say Duke is what he is isn't correct. He will be better this season than he was last season. Now, of course, he needs to be much better, because Diggs is taking one of the receiver slots, Roberts is more or less a lock, so there are two or maybe three slots left. One or more of those slots requires a serious special teams contribution, and Duke hasn't shown that he can be that guy. But he has one big thing going for him, and that is that his biggest competition should come from the rookies, and the rookies will have very limited opportunity to prove themselves this month. At least one of them has to be a real stand out, because Duke will not go quietly, and because in this season it's a big risk to go with unproven (rookie) talent. There's a good chance there will be more injuries than usual, and there's also the chance of losing guys to COVID-19. Coaches are going to want reserves they know can count on, and rookies beyond the third round usually can't be counted on. If Duke shows the natural improvement I expect he will, he will send a message to McDermott that says he can be counted on. Plus, McDermott wants guys with Duke's intensity and competitiveness. Any receiver fighting for a backup role will have to bring it at the same level or more. The rookies have one month of camp to prove they have it. I think it's way too early to count Duke out. Ordinary spring and summer, maybe. This summer, it's different. I would put some money on Williams not making the active roster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Putin said: He’s a good blocker may also compete for the # 4 WR spot Yeah, that’s not enough in my opinion. With this team guys we would have used to love aren’t going to cut it anymore. Just reality of a strong team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I would put some money on Williams not making the active roster If I had to bet, I'd be with you. He didn't make the progress I expected last season. But I didn't say I expected he'd make the roster. I said I expect he will be better than last year, and I said that given the realities of the 2020 season, a guy with experience seems to have an additional edge. I said I wouldn't count him out yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Beast said: I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised, especially with how they used him in the playoff game at Houston. The coaches see something worthwhile. Because of the two WR’s we drafted and Diggs...it’s a different team now. Not to mention he wasn’t very good in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, TroutDog said: Yeah, that’s not enough in my opinion. With this team guys we would have used to love aren’t going to cut it anymore. Just reality of a strong team. Right. In particular, there's almost always tough competition at the backup receiver spot. Diggs' arrival makes the competition that much tougher. Think of it this way: There's really only one spot for Williams to compete for, and that's the #4 receiver slot. Is he going to be the guy who gets on the field in double wide or empty backfield sets? If he isn't that guy, then he needs to be a special teamer or a developmental player who has showed promise. Developmental player was his role last season; tough for him to be in that role again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Shaw66 said: If I had to bet, I'd be with you. He didn't make the progress I expected last season. But I didn't say I expected he'd make the roster. I said I expect he will be better than last year, and I said that given the realities of the 2020 season, a guy with experience seems to have an additional edge. I said I wouldn't count him out yet. I also don’t think there are as many spots up for grabs as you think. Between Diggs/Brown/Beasley/Roberts/Davis imo there’s probably only one or possibly two fits for McKenzie/Williams/Hodgins/Foster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 The legend of Kiko Alonso has finally been replaced with the Legend of the Duke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, TroutDog said: Because of the two WR’s we drafted and Diggs...it’s a different team now. Not to mention he wasn’t very good in that game. Exactly. Much tougher competition for one fewer spot than last season. Still, I won't be surprised if he makes the team. The big question is will he be noticeably better than last season (in other words, can he build on a rookie season where he showed he at least can play with guys in this league)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 hours ago, TBBills said: Duke made 3 very good catches in the playoffs so he has earned the chance. He also dropped some catchable passes in the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I also don’t think there are as many spots up for grabs as you think. Between Diggs/Brown/Beasley/Roberts/Davis imo there’s probably only one or possibly two fits for McKenzie/Williams/Hodgins/Foster I think that's probably correct, although I'm not awarding a roster spot to any rookie beyond round 3. If Williams is clearly better than Davis in training camp, then the coaches may very well be thinking that Williams is in the top five and Davis is looking to win one of two spots. That's especially true if Williams is better in camp and Davis shows some special teams promise. The addition of Diggs makes McKenzie somewhat more expendable, because he's never shown great stuff as a receiver, except the jet sweep. With Diggs and Roberts, they have that covered. Foster needs to emerge big time or prove that he's so important to the special teams that they can't let him go. Given all this competition, Hodgins almost certainly is on the outside looking in. So there's clearly a route for Duke, but like you, if I had to bet, I'd say he probably is looking for a job in September. (And I wouldn't be surprised if he finds one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think that's probably correct, although I'm not awarding a roster spot to any rookie beyond round 3. If Williams is clearly better than Davis in training camp, then the coaches may very well be thinking that Williams is in the top five and Davis is looking to win one of two spots. That's especially true if Williams is better in camp and Davis shows some special teams promise. The addition of Diggs makes McKenzie somewhat more expendable, because he's never shown great stuff as a receiver, except the jet sweep. With Diggs and Roberts, they have that covered. Foster needs to emerge big time or prove that he's so important to the special teams that they can't let him go. Given all this competition, Hodgins almost certainly is on the outside looking in. So there's clearly a route for Duke, but like you, if I had to bet, I'd say he probably is looking for a job in September. (And I wouldn't be surprised if he finds one.) I think Davis is almost a lock to make the team given how the staff brings along their draft classes...I can't see him not making the squad. That gives us Diggs-Brown-Beasley-Roberts-Davis and I'm guessing McKenzie to round out the six actives since Roberts will be ST also. I don't think they're planning on using him on offense much, so I believe McKenzie will still have a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Right. In particular, there's almost always tough competition at the backup receiver spot. Diggs' arrival makes the competition that much tougher. Think of it this way: There's really only one spot for Williams to compete for, and that's the #4 receiver slot. Is he going to be the guy who gets on the field in double wide or empty backfield sets? If he isn't that guy, then he needs to be a special teamer or a developmental player who has showed promise. Developmental player was his role last season; tough for him to be in that role again this year. I agree that he needs to find another role but he’s not fast enough for teams so he’ll have to beat out the young tall kid from the draft...and I’m not sure if he can. 24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Exactly. Much tougher competition for one fewer spot than last season. Still, I won't be surprised if he makes the team. The big question is will he be noticeably better than last season (in other words, can he build on a rookie season where he showed he at least can play with guys in this league)? Agreed...but he also shows he has more upside than the two new draftees and I’m not sure he can simply due to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, TroutDog said: While I recognize many (me among them) love the underdog story, I’m surprised he’s still on the team. Must be a DNA thing. I will be fairly surprised--though not shocked because this offseason, familiarity will be a huge benefit as far as roster competition goes--if Duke makes the final roster of 53 men. Would've been more shocking if he weren't part of the top 80, though. Edited August 9, 2020 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I think he will likely make the PS and be available if someone gets sick/injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Gugny said: Personally, I think it's unfair to judge him based on how he was inactive for 12 regular season games, then thrust into the offense in a playoff game and given 10 targets. I still think he CAN be a good WR. Hopefully we see better roster management in the next full season. nice point. I was one bitching about not seeing him after showing up preseason decently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I still don’t get what the big deal is about this dude. He doesn’t have a good story and he’s a fringe roster guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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