billsfanmiami(oh) Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I certainly feel bad the guy got hurt and the worst part about the whole thing in my opinion is them just leaving him there once it’s clear he was hurt. But at some point, you have a little personal responsibility for putting yourself in dangerous situations. As the line of officers moves forward (and Are yelling to move forward) he walks right Into to them With an object in both of is hands. I don’t find the cops giving him a little “hey back the hell up buddy” type push to be over the top. It’s not like they gave him a two hander to the chest. It’s all around a sad situation but I don’t feel like this is one where the cops were way out of line. Now that one in Indy where they’re beating the girls with batons? That was unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: It looks to me like he found a police helmet and is returning it. That's just false. At the time he was forced back, he was trying to stop the officers from moving forward. So he can provide resistance, but the police can't even though there was an executive ordered curfew the old guy was not following? Not to mention he was asking for the badges of the officers prior to the incident. The guy was there to cause trouble. Why can't people just follow rules? I just can't comprehend it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: It looks to me like he found a police helmet and is returning it. I don't know, but it begs the question: what was he doing there to begin with? Once again, I would make a huge wager that he has a psych history. Would you walk into police in riot gear and proceed to touch them? These are dangerous times. A NYC police officer was stabbed in the neck 2 nights ago. I am guessing that a police officer would feel guilty sitting in the station house for hours processing this old, apparent lunatic through the system while his fellow officers are in danger out there. The entire episode just sucks but imo, for someone to equate it in any way to Minnesota is wrong and probably agenda driven. I am saddened and sickened by what happened there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said: what was he doing there to begin with? Exercizing his First Amendment right to peaceful assembly. Quote I would make a huge wager that he has a psych history. Based on what? And would you make the same wager about the officer who shoved him? Edited June 5, 2020 by WhoTom 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: This post will probably not be well received by those with a specific agenda. Oh well..... The police were lined up, imposing a local government mandated curfew (we all know that police do not mandate curfews, they enforce them). People in the area deserve praise for not turning out to riot. Now, here comes the old man. He looks harmless enough, but he seems to be accosting (or do you prefer the word "touching) two police officers after walking into moving lines of officers in riot gear. I would wager everything I own against 10 bucks that the old man has a psych history, but so be it. At this point, the man is guilty of disorderly conduct. He could/should have been cuffed and taken away. The cops decided to shove him away instead, and the old guy fell. Not arresting him turned out to be a big mistake, but I don't think that this incident is to be equated with the horrible, sickening incident in Minnesota. In Buffalo, the officer probably felt that he was giving the old man a break by not locking him up. Do I suspect that the cops were annoyed by being touched by this guy? OK, yes. Do I think that they wanted to split his head open? No, I do not. Now, a mistake that was POSSIBLY made (and I cannot tell because the video was short), might be whether or not there was an immediate call for medical assistance. Psychotic or not, the man was in need of and entitled to medical care at this point. I don't think that this incident should be agenda driven, but it almost certainly will be. It certainly was not race driven, even if the cops were black. This was a regrettable incident, but again; comparing this to the sickening horror show in Minnesota is just not fair, but surely it will happen anyway. Sad indeed. Well put, Bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 17 minutes ago, WhoTom said: Exercizing his First Amendment right to peaceful assembly. Based on what? And would you make the same wager about the officer who shoved him? All fine and good until he decided to walk up to the police and put his hands on them. Are police justified in pushing you away if you put your hands on them? Yes. Is the video ugly? Yes. Will it be used to further stir up the mob? Of course. I’m glad they are investigating it, and I hope the man recovers quickly. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Back2Buff said: That's just false. At the time he was forced back, he was trying to stop the officers from moving forward. So he can provide resistance, but the police can't even though there was an executive ordered curfew the old guy was not following? Not to mention he was asking for the badges of the officers prior to the incident. The guy was there to cause trouble. Why can't people just follow rules? I just can't comprehend it. Kinda reminds me of the drunk Indian getting on the kid’s face in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: If it was all a justified response by officers in the course of duty, then why the need to lie about the incident initially? I don't agree with you that the response by the officer/s was proper. As NYC Bill indicated this older fellow could have mental health issues or simply be befuddled. The right response would have been either to arrest him or with less force push him back or be guided out of the way. The officer who forcibly pushed him used poor judgment. All he had to do is look at who was confronting him and make a better judgment in calibrating his response. It was an older man who although wasn't following orders was no threat to the officer pushing him. He could have been handled in a more professional and common sense manner. Prior to demonstrations instructions are often given to the unit as to who is going to do what such as the designated arresting teams or even first aid personnel. This non-threatening individual could have been passed off to someone who would have arrested him thus allowing the police line to remain in tact and move forward as a unit. Another problem I had with the incident is that I didn't like the delay or confusion of the officers in responding to the individual's medical situation. In my opinion the biggest mistake was the excessive hard push against an older man who wasn't much of a threat. That was the triggering act. Yes, the individual wasn't obeying the commands to move back but he didn't appear to being acting with any malice. It's fortunate that he didn't die from falling and hitting his head on the concrete. I don't believe the officer intended to hurt this fellow but in my opinion he used poor judgment that could have ended up being a catastrophe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: This post will probably not be well received by those with a specific agenda. Oh well..... The police were lined up, imposing a local government mandated curfew (we all know that police do not mandate curfews, they enforce them). People in the area deserve praise for not turning out to riot. Now, here comes the old man. He looks harmless enough, but he seems to be accosting (or do you prefer the word "touching) two police officers after walking into moving lines of officers in riot gear. I would wager everything I own against 10 bucks that the old man has a psych history, but so be it. At this point, the man is guilty of disorderly conduct. He could/should have been cuffed and taken away. The cops decided to shove him away instead, and the old guy fell. Not arresting him turned out to be a big mistake, but I don't think that this incident is to be equated with the horrible, sickening incident in Minnesota. In Buffalo, the officer probably felt that he was giving the old man a break by not locking him up. Do I suspect that the cops were annoyed by being touched by this guy? OK, yes. Do I think that they wanted to split his head open? No, I do not. Now, a mistake that was POSSIBLY made (and I cannot tell because the video was short), might be whether or not there was an immediate call for medical assistance. Psychotic or not, the man was in need of and entitled to medical care at this point. I don't think that this incident should be agenda driven, but it almost certainly will be. It certainly was not race driven, even if the cops were black. This was a regrettable incident, but again; comparing this to the sickening horror show in Minnesota is just not fair, but surely it will happen anyway. Sad indeed. This is an incident where the outcome is way worse than the actions. If he maintains his balance that light shove would like restraint. There have been many egregious acts of police brutality the past few days which received zero airtime but this was not one of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: Exercizing his First Amendment right to peaceful assembly. Did you miss the thing about the Curfew? 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: Based on what? And would you make the same wager about the officer who shoved him? Based on the fact that he walked up to, and started touching approaching police officers in riot gear. Perhaps you think this is normal, well thought behavior. and no; I would not assume that the officer was mentally ill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: I don't agree with you that the response by the officer/s was proper. As NYC Bill indicated this older fellow could have mental health issues or simply be befuddled. The right response would have been either to arrest him or with less force push him back or be guided out of the way. The officer who forcibly pushed him used poor judgment. All he had to do is look at who was confronting him and make a better judgment in calibrating his response. It was an older man who although wasn't following orders was no threat to the officer pushing him. He could have been handled in a more professional and common sense manner. Prior to demonstrations instructions are often given to the unit as to who is going to do what such as the designated arresting teams or even first aid personnel. This non-threatening individual could have been passed off to someone who would have arrested him thus allowing the police line to remain in tact and move forward as a unit. Another problem I had with the incident is that I didn't like the delay or confusion of the officers in responding to the individual's medical situation. In my opinion the biggest mistake was the excessive hard push against an older man who wasn't much of a threat. That was the triggering act. Yes, the individual wasn't obeying the commands to move back but he didn't appear to being acting with any malice. It's fortunate that he didn't die from falling and hitting his head on the concrete. I don't believe the officer intended to hurt this fellow but in my opinion he used poor judgment that could have ended up being a catastrophe. I never said the response was proper. I said , “if it was proper, then why did the police lie about it initially. My earlier post in this thread clearly states it was NOT proper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: I never said the response was proper. I said , “if it was proper, then why did the police lie about it initially. My earlier post in this thread clearly states it was NOT proper. I apologize for not properly comprehending your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 12 hours ago, PastaJoe said: This is why some police around the country have been attacking and harassing reporters; they don’t want the evidence of their misconduct recorded. Copy that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: This post will probably not be well received by those with a specific agenda. Oh well..... The police were lined up, imposing a local government mandated curfew (we all know that police do not mandate curfews, they enforce them). People in the area deserve praise for not turning out to riot. Now, here comes the old man. He looks harmless enough, but he seems to be accosting (or do you prefer the word "touching) two police officers after walking into moving lines of officers in riot gear. I would wager everything I own against 10 bucks that the old man has a psych history, but so be it. At this point, the man is guilty of disorderly conduct. He could/should have been cuffed and taken away. The cops decided to shove him away instead, and the old guy fell. Not arresting him turned out to be a big mistake, but I don't think that this incident is to be equated with the horrible, sickening incident in Minnesota. In Buffalo, the officer probably felt that he was giving the old man a break by not locking him up. Do I suspect that the cops were annoyed by being touched by this guy? OK, yes. Do I think that they wanted to split his head open? No, I do not. Now, a mistake that was POSSIBLY made (and I cannot tell because the video was short), might be whether or not there was an immediate call for medical assistance. Psychotic or not, the man was in need of and entitled to medical care at this point. I don't think that this incident should be agenda driven, but it almost certainly will be. It certainly was not race driven, even if the cops were black. This was a regrettable incident, but again; comparing this to the sickening horror show in Minnesota is just not fair, but surely it will happen anyway. Sad indeed. he was bringing them one of their helmets back 4 hours ago, Warren Zevon said: It looks to me like he found a police helmet and is returning it. indeed 3 hours ago, Back2Buff said: That's just false. At the time he was forced back, he was trying to stop the officers from moving forward. So he can provide resistance, but the police can't even though there was an executive ordered curfew the old guy was not following? Not to mention he was asking for the badges of the officers prior to the incident. The guy was there to cause trouble. Why can't people just follow rules? I just can't comprehend it. wrong. You seem like one of the guys who protested the curfew for wearing a mask and the gov't violating your rights there; sit down fellow bills fan Edited June 5, 2020 by Reed83HOF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I remember studying this same kind of dynamic in college. The Rise of Nazism in Germany! We're in very troubled times ladies & gentlemen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: he was bringing them one of their helmets back So he was waiting around until after the imposed curfew to give back the helmet and touch a few cops in riot gear along the way? Does this sound like normal behavior to you. Do you do things like this? I for one do not. Call me crazy but perhaps he could have dropped it off at any police station the following day, before the curfew time, no? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Gettin spicy up in here ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: he was bringing them one of their helmets back indeed wrong. You seem like one of the guys who protested the curfew for wearing a mask and the gov't violating your rights there; sit down fellow bills fan Watch this video. That was his helmet and he was an issue before this. Direct quote: "He is going to get punched in the face." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, Bill from NYC said: So he was waiting around until after the imposed curfew to give back the helmet and touch a few cops in riot gear along the way? Does this sound like normal behavior to you. Do you do things like this? I for one do not. Call me crazy but perhaps he could have dropped it off at any police station the following day, before the curfew time, no? That context is missing and not known via video as far as i know. I am also trying and would like everyone here to keep it away from PPP and politics. I believe most individuals take issue with the fact that, I mean let's be honest he is an older guy, shouldn't have been pushed as hard as he was. You can easily make a case for an adrenaline rush with the officers, some level of exhaustion, but the most egregious part was when one of the officers went to go check on him, he was physically moved away by another officer and it iwas either the National Guard or state police who went to administer help; not one BPD officer stopped. There is zero excuse for that behavior; enforcing a curfew to arrest a guy with a sign, when they directly caused injury to a citizen is nonsense. The extra 5 minutes or even 2 officers out of the what 20ish there, would not have affectedthe guy holding the sign who would have still been there after curfew anyways. it's simply more pitiful police behavior. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said: Gettin spicy up in here ? Really? Our perceptions must differ, whereas I am not sensing lost tempers, shouting, name calling, etc. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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