Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Never, huh? In both of their first 4 years: Dalton: 40 wins, 99TDs, 14758 yards, 2 playoff seasons Prescott: 40 wins, 97 TDs, 15778 yards, 2 playoff seasons Dalton: 66 INTs, 624 rushing yards, 11 rushing TDs Prescott: 36 INTs, 1221 rushing yards, 21 rushing TDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Dak’s numbers vs above .500 teams is horrid. Most of Dak’s numbers comes against below .500 competition. I don’t see Dak ever winning the Cowboys a SB, he doesn’t play well vs better competition. Do you Josh Allen winning a SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Ah, a textbook Weo argument. Don’t include turnovers, qb rating, rushing, current ages to make it look closer than it is. Because if you did that, dalton - 85 QBs rating, 66 ints, 11 rushing tds, current age 32. dak - 97 qb rating, 36 ints, 21 rushing tds, current age 26. i respect your sneakiness Weo. Almost sold it. also, I present Peyton Manning’s 1st 4 years: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm ? and please don’t twist this like Dak is going to be better than Manning but the guy has been good and some of you are working real hard to discredit him. Like you do with almost every young qb (should I pull out the Mahomes training camp int thread?). If Allen comes close to Dak, we will be begging the Bulls to pay him. We went 7-9 with Trent and JP. We went 9/7 with Ej and Orton. You said he never in his career had Dak like results. It's not sneaky to point out that is not factually correct. Wins, TDs, yards, playoff appearances equivalent. But you want to include rating and ints.....OK. But adding them in doesn't change the fact that they had very similar career starts for their first 4 years. Mentiining their current age is not germane to your original claim so why mention it? I'm all in on Young QB Josh Allen, as you know. Is dak "good"? Sure. And maybe THIS will be the year he leads that star studded team deep into the playoffs. If not, that's a lot of cap being tied up for the guy who only gets you so far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Do you Josh Allen winning a SB? Not sure yet, he is still young with major potential. I will wait until after his 3rd or 4th season to answer that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 If a team can’t make the playoffs with a QB throwing for 30TDs, 11 INTs, and 4,900 yards while earning $2,000,000, the problem isn’t the QB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 59 minutes ago, Billl said: Dalton: 66 INTs, 624 rushing yards, 11 rushing TDs Prescott: 36 INTs, 1221 rushing yards, 21 rushing TDs fewer ints, more rushing, yes. No more wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: fewer ints, more rushing, yes. No more wins. Swear to god some of these people do not watch pro football Prescott’s 2019 season was in stat protector mode for a contract year. Bears game Exhibit A 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Swear to god some of these people do not watch pro football Prescott’s 2019 season was in stat protector mode for a contract year. Bears game Exhibit A As I said before...anybody gonna pay that guy because they truly feel he’s a winner? A leader? A guy who can will his (completely stacked) team to win? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 19 hours ago, Billl said: If a team can’t make the playoffs with a QB throwing for 30TDs, 11 INTs, and 4,900 yards while earning $2,000,000, the problem isn’t the QB. I agree. And giving Dak a $35MM deal is not going to help. The team as a whole surrounding Dak is on the decline. The defense never materialized into a top unit like we thought they might. And the o-line, once the best in the league not long ago, is now around average. The wildcard is the coaching change. Maybe McCarthy will be able to turn things around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Well this is one way to cap QB salaries. When someone wants more than $40 million per year the GM will say "Are you better than Mahomes?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 9:50 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: In hindsight, we should have probably drafted him. But he will be one if the few qbs who will deserve his money. the nfl needs to do something about this though. It’s a joke how much qbs who aren’t good are getting paid. Teams need to be.......like the Chiefs........KC had Alex Smith...we were winning divisions with that guy. he was putting up "numbers" KC decided that he wasn't getting them to the top and traded up for Mahomes. The problem with mediocre QB getting paid is most teams are too scared. They know what they have with X, and sign him, instead of daring to be better, letting reliable mediocre X move on and getting someone that could be better in there. The NFL doesn't need to do anything. Teams need to be honest about the QB they have. Now, having said that...Andy Reid was/is one of the few guys who had the kind of job security and reputation to be able to go to an owner and say....I realize we are winning, we sell out the stadium every year and our QB is a good guy in the community etc...but he isn't good enough and I want to trade up in the draft for this guy who I think can be better. Very few front offices can do that. Normally a big QB change happens when the coach and GM have just been newly hired and they get one shot at this. That is the problem. If those guys find a QB that gets to 9 wins consistantly, they keep him, becuase the GM and coach keep their jobs because they are "winning" they are "close". You'd overpay a QB too if it menat you got to keep your 5 million per year job an extra year or three or 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: Teams need to be.......like the Chiefs........KC had Alex Smith...we were winning divisions with that guy. he was putting up "numbers" KC decided that he wasn't getting them to the top and traded up for Mahomes. The problem with mediocre QB getting paid is most teams are too scared. They know what they have with X, and sign him, instead of daring to be better, letting reliable mediocre X move on and getting someone that could be better in there. The NFL doesn't need to do anything. Teams need to be honest about the QB they have. Now, having said that...Andy Reid was/is one of the few guys who had the kind of job security and reputation to be able to go to an owner and say....I realize we are winning, we sell out the stadium every year and our QB is a good guy in the community etc...but he isn't good enough and I want to trade up in the draft for this guy who I think can be better. Very few front offices can do that. Normally a big QB change happens when the coach and GM have just been newly hired and they get one shot at this. That is the problem. If those guys find a QB that gets to 9 wins consistantly, they keep him, becuase the GM and coach keep their jobs because they are "winning" they are "close". You'd overpay a QB too if it menat you got to keep your 5 million per year job an extra year or three or 4. There are 32 teams in the league and at least half of them could use better QB play. It's fine and dandy for you as a Chiefs fan to be happy and be a little "this is how everyone should do it" but the reality is that IF Mahomes turned out not to be as good as he is they would be in a completely different position. It's a fact that more 1st round QBs end up being mediocre than elite. In many ways it's just a crapshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: There are 32 teams in the league and at least half of them could use better QB play. It's fine and dandy for you as a Chiefs fan to be happy and be a little "this is how everyone should do it" but the reality is that IF Mahomes turned out not to be as good as he is they would be in a completely different position. It's a fact that more 1st round QBs end up being mediocre than elite. In many ways it's just a crapshoot. yes....not super bowl champions.....just like before we had Mahomes. And then you don't pay Mahomes if he isn't good...you go and try and find a guy who is good. You are making my point for me. It's hard to win a title with a midling QB....it can be done. it's just harder to build a generational defense, draft well for 3 or 4 years in a row and have everything culminate just right for one season. If you don't have the QB, then you need a QB. You don't pay a QB big money (that what this thread is about..paying big money for average QB) if he isn't a big money type player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: yes....not super bowl champions.....just like before we had Mahomes. And then you don't pay Mahomes if he isn't good...you go and try and find a guy who is good. You are making my point for me. It's hard to win a title with a midling QB....it can be done. it's just harder to build a generational defense, draft well for 3 or 4 years in a row and have everything culminate just right for one season. If you don't have the QB, then you need a QB. You don't pay a QB big money (that what this thread is about..paying big money for average QB) if he isn't a big money type player. No, you're making my point. There are not enough "elite" QBs for a 32 team league. Every year the top rated QBs coming into the league get drafted quickly. Your team took a chance and it paid off well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said: No, you're making my point. There are not enough "elite" QBs for a 32 team league. Every year the top rated QBs coming into the league get drafted quickly. Your team took a chance and it paid off well. ......which is my point. Is your point that teams just stick with a Tyrod Taylor type QB because he's decent or an Andy Dalton type? Should Joe Flacco make a bazillion dollars? Kirk Cousins? Or do you "take a chance" and try and improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlezero Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 if i were dallas id rescind daks franchise and sign cam for half the money. that would help set the QB market . someone has to stand up to these ridiculous contracts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said: ......which is my point. Is your point that teams just stick with a Tyrod Taylor type QB because he's decent or an Andy Dalton type? Should Joe Flacco make a bazillion dollars? Kirk Cousins? Or do you "take a chance" and try and improve? Sounds great. When it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Sounds great. When it works. Of course......but the point is do you pay Kirk Cousins a ton of money to be Kirk Cousins or do you keep drafting and trying QB's until you find one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Just now, Zerovoltz said: Of course......but the point is do you pay Kirk Cousins a ton of money to be Kirk Cousins or do you keep drafting and trying QB's until you find one? When do we pick these hypothetical replacement QBs? 2? 1? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: When do we pick these hypothetical replacement QBs? 2? 1? When do you pay a guy like a top tier QB? The point is if you don't have a top tier QB..... 1. you shouldn't pay a guy like a top tier guy who isn't one. 2. you need a top tier guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: When do you pay a guy like a top tier QB? The point is if you don't have a top tier QB..... 1. you shouldn't pay a guy like a top tier guy who isn't one. 2. you need a top tier guy. I understand the concept. But what amount of draft resources should teams spend on QBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 2:48 AM, Niagara Dude said: That really screws up your cap when the team is paying that much cash for one player. Yep, just think about it KC needs to pay Kelce, and Hill. Once they over pay for Mahomes they will be in trouble, is Mahomes really that good? I don’t think so, take away the best skill players in the game and then good luck keeping that OL in place and you’ll see a very different Mahomes. it will be fun to see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I understand the concept. But what amount of draft resources should teams spend on QBs? I know I'm making this seem simpler than it is. I think Buffalo has handled it better than most in the past couple years...you tried Manual...he didn't work out. you tried Tyrod....he was ok. Now you are on Josh Allen....I think a top 10 type QB is the best shot at finding a guy, but you should always look....FA, diamond in the rough CFL guys, you try until you find a guy. but you gotta find the guy somewhere. I don't have the answers...and not all 32 teams can win or find the guy....it's hard......all I am saying is actively searchign out the right guy is better than paying top dollar for someone who isn't the guy. Just now, Yav said: Yep, just think about it KC needs to pay Kelce, and Hill. Once they over pay for Mahomes they will be in trouble, is Mahomes really that good? I don’t think so, take away the best skill players in the game and then good luck keeping that OL in place and you’ll see a very different Mahomes. it will be fun to see how this plays out. They are already under contract. Hill is in for the next 3 years...he signed an extension last year. Kelce has another year after this one under contract. We're good to go. 1 minute ago, Yav said: Yep, just think about it KC needs to pay Kelce, and Hill. Once they over pay for Mahomes they will be in trouble, is Mahomes really that good? I don’t think so, take away the best skill players in the game and then good luck keeping that OL in place and you’ll see a very different Mahomes. it will be fun to see how this plays out. They guy has a QBR of 99.9 on third and 15 or more, the rest of the leauge has a QBR of 4.6 in that same situaiton. Mahomes is good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Yav said: Yep, just think about it KC needs to pay Kelce, and Hill. Once they over pay for Mahomes they will be in trouble, is Mahomes really that good? I don’t think so, take away the best skill players in the game and then good luck keeping that OL in place and you’ll see a very different Mahomes. it will be fun to see how this plays out. They’ve already paid Hill long term. You might want to retire from making predictions about Mahomes and the Chiefs (or don’t because I like laughing as people fall on their faces). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 51 minutes ago, Billl said: They’ve already paid Hill long term. You might want to retire from making predictions about Mahomes and the Chiefs (or don’t because I like laughing as people fall on their faces). @Yav hates Kansas City and Kansas City fans.....At some point I think he lived in KC and had a bad time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 40 million to Mahomes seems insane until you think about what average QBs get. If so many can get 25+ then he might be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said: @Yav hates Kansas City and Kansas City fans.....At some point I think he lived in KC and had a bad time. I did, and I do. Horrible place and the fans were jerks at the stadium, had a 8 adult men verbally abuse my young daughters at the stadium when they went to the restroom. Had 3 others push my exwife to the ground...so yeppers can’t stand em. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 59 minutes ago, Yav said: I did, and I do. Horrible place and the fans were jerks at the stadium, had a 8 adult men verbally abuse my young daughters at the stadium when they went to the restroom. Had 3 others push my exwife to the ground...so yeppers can’t stand em. NFL fans suck. I used to post on chiefsplanet, but that place is basically a white supremacist site these days. It’s a really good site for football talk, but damn. Kansas City is a great city, though. Tons of Chiefs season ticket holders are from middle of nowhere towns and have nothing else in life beyond the Chiefs. The city gets overrun by trashy losers 8 weekends a year, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Mahomes is worth every penny. I hope everyday Allen can evolve into the type of player he is. Allen has every tool Mahomes has, he just needs to put it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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