There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[SoCal Deek]

Are there no moderators on this board anymore? Do we really have to have Tibs and Q reduce EVERY SINGLE thread to a back and forth about ‘ball licking’? Even in the midst of a worldwide pandemic? Come on guys! Can the moderators PLEASE socially distance these two for awhile? 

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

You're understanding the cow farmer during  the Depression ? 

 

Fair to say, the manure part you have grasped. 

  If properly gathered and applied Tibs could eliminate the need for commercial fertilizer by ALL USA farmers.  

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Are there no moderators on this board anymore? Do we really have to have Tibs and Q reduce EVERY SINGLE thread to a back and forth about ‘ball licking’? Even in the midst of a worldwide pandemic? Come on guys! Can the moderators PLEASE socially distance these two for awhile? 

  The moderators claim that they cannot tell the difference between the players here.  What does that say about the mods?

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, RealKayAdams said:

 

Corporate welfare is okay in limited cases, but the dairy industry definitely shouldn’t be included in these cases. The original purpose of farm subsidies was to stabilize the country’s food supply during famines or deep economic recessions, like what was seen during the Gilded Age. The dairy industry has always invested heavily in lobbyists in order to convince America and its politicians that they provide a “critical” nutrition source (I think they may have even played a prominent role in getting Iowa to be the first primary state?). The problem here is that dairy milk is in no way an essential source of nutrition. You can get calcium and vitamin D from a large variety of natural food sources, as well as fortified ones, supplements, and sunlight in the case of vitamin D. Many Americans are not even lactose tolerant, including most non-Caucasians. Dairy farmers are whining to the government because alternative plant-based milks are hurting their business model, but at the same time they’re completely unwilling to adapt their farm business model to accommodate the natural changes in demand occurring within the food market. I didn’t even touch the animal rights issues with the dairy industry, but that’s another topic for another thread.

  With the dairy industry it is not just a matter of a source of vitamin D all though that was a driving point decades ago.  It is the only viable source in bulk for cheeses, yogurt, and ice cream which American consumers heavily desire.  Most people heavily crave Italian food which is heavy in cheese.  The quantity needed so every American can get their fill cannot be met with goats.  Cheese substitutes have been around for decades and were pushed during the late 1970's as inflation exploded on the American consumer with little acceptance especially when prices receded on real cheese.

[Nanker]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  If properly gathered and applied Tibs could eliminate the need for commercial fertilizer by ALL USA farmers.  

  The moderators claim that they cannot tell the difference between the players here.  What does that say about the mods?

I think one of the gnarly players is a mod. C-YA!

[Foxx]

***** censorship. you can't complain about social media manipulation then claim to want it here. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Foxx

[KRC]

23 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

   The moderators claim that they cannot tell the difference between the players here.  What does that say about the mods?

 

Mods don't even bother showing up and if they do, they just run away. We used to have mods (I was one of them), but they did not want enforcement of TOS on this side of the board.

[Q-baby!]

32 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Are there no moderators on this board anymore? Do we really have to have Tibs and Q reduce EVERY SINGLE thread to a back and forth about ‘ball licking’? Even in the midst of a worldwide pandemic? Come on guys! Can the moderators PLEASE socially distance these two for awhile? 

That’s because you guys are just as bad and they know it. 

[Q-baby!]

1 minute ago, I am the egg man said:

 

Did you ever get any money from him? 

[123719bwiqrb]

I still have not seen or heard of a coherent plan from anyone, other than broad speculation.  The type of speculation your hear from science fiction dreamers.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

- The antibody testing will never ramp up fast enough (200M tests ready by May 1st?), so it will have to be a spot check at best.  Maybe 10% of the population; 30M tests may be doable.  That will get a feel for how long the virus has been in the wild.  Imagine the egg-on-faces if it's been here for waves since Dec 2019 (very possible).  So that is why my hunch is this test will never even grow legs and be a viable option. 

 

- That would also put the bracelet/mark of the beast question to bed.  Not viable to test every human, and people would never agree to it anyways, so why entertain it.

 

- The actual, active virus test will need to have better coverage, and the tracing will need to be Stasi like.  This is the test that will need to be in the ~200M range by May 1st, and it will need fast replenishment.  Does anyone know how many tests and manufacturer's capacity is out there?  And let's assume they are widely available, and anyone who needs it gets it.  Who is going to do all the positive tester contact follow up?  The US is not built for that (too big).

 

- This is why we will land on the regional reopening option, and will have to go back to the old way of trusting our neighbors.  Keep the immuno-compromised & grandma sheltered (somewhat), but let the "brave" rest of us who need to go on with our lives, go about it.  If you get it, you get it.  Sorry, like cancer, you don't get any guarantees in life.

 

If we don't do this by May 1st, get ready for a repeat of the middle ages.  My fortune 500 (maybe 200 now?) said it will layoff everyone in the US if we aren't reopened by mid May.  I'm sure most big companies are considering that too, and it would be the death of the USA if that happened.  Mid May is the point of no return.

 

[RochesterRob]

9 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

I still have not seen or heard of a coherent plan from anyone, other than broad speculation.  The type of speculation your hear from science fiction dreamers.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

- The antibody testing will never ramp up fast enough (200M tests ready by May 1st?), so it will have to be a spot check at best.  Maybe 10% of the population; 30M tests may be doable.  That will get a feel for how long the virus has been in the wild.  Imagine the egg-on-faces if it's been here for waves since Dec 2019 (very possible).  So that is why my hunch is this test will never even grow legs and be a viable option. 

 

- That would also put the bracelet/mark of the beast question to bed.  Not viable to test every human, and people would never agree to it anyways, so why entertain it.

 

- The actual, active virus test will need to have better coverage, and the tracing will need to be Stasi like.  This is the test that will need to be in the ~200M range by May 1st, and it will need fast replenishment.  Does anyone know how many tests and manufacturer's capacity is out there?  And let's assume they are widely available, and anyone who needs it gets it.  Who is going to do all the positive tester contact follow up?  The US is not built for that (too big).

 

- This is why we will land on the regional reopening option, and will have to go back to the old way of trusting our neighbors.  Keep the immuno-compromised & grandma sheltered (somewhat), but let the "brave" rest of us who need to go on with our lives, go about it.  If you get it, you get it.  Sorry, like cancer, you don't get any guarantees in life.

 

If we don't do this by May 1st, get ready for a repeat of the middle ages.  My fortune 500 (maybe 200 now?) said it will layoff everyone in the US if we aren't reopened by mid May.  I'm sure most big companies are considering that too, and it would be the death of the USA if that happened.  Mid May is the point of no return.

 

  A lot of damage will already be done by the end of April with what has already transpired.  Not trying to be a doomsayer but just trying to get everybody to see the magnitude of what has happened already.  As Old Time has already said banks are not making the majority of loans the government was hoping for when the program was unveiled.

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

I still have not seen or heard of a coherent plan from anyone, other than broad speculation.  The type of speculation your hear from science fiction dreamers.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

- The antibody testing will never ramp up fast enough (200M tests ready by May 1st?), so it will have to be a spot check at best.  Maybe 10% of the population; 30M tests may be doable.  That will get a feel for how long the virus has been in the wild.  Imagine the egg-on-faces if it's been here for waves since Dec 2019 (very possible).  So that is why my hunch is this test will never even grow legs and be a viable option. 

 

- That would also put the bracelet/mark of the beast question to bed.  Not viable to test every human, and people would never agree to it anyways, so why entertain it.

 

- The actual, active virus test will need to have better coverage, and the tracing will need to be Stasi like.  This is the test that will need to be in the ~200M range by May 1st, and it will need fast replenishment.  Does anyone know how many tests and manufacturer's capacity is out there?  And let's assume they are widely available, and anyone who needs it gets it.  Who is going to do all the positive tester contact follow up?  The US is not built for that (too big).

 

- This is why we will land on the regional reopening option, and will have to go back to the old way of trusting our neighbors.  Keep the immuno-compromised & grandma sheltered (somewhat), but let the "brave" rest of us who need to go on with our lives, go about it.  If you get it, you get it.  Sorry, like cancer, you don't get any guarantees in life.

 

If we don't do this by May 1st, get ready for a repeat of the middle ages.  My fortune 500 (maybe 200 now?) said it will layoff everyone in the US if we aren't reopened by mid May.  I'm sure most big companies are considering that too, and it would be the death of the USA if that happened.  Mid May is the point of no return.

 

I agree with most of this (maybe not the Middle Ages hyperbole but I’ll go with risk of long term depression). The tracking can be done via cell phones. Not perfect but if we are tracking 85% of the population and contract tracking via an app that warned you when you had been in close contact with someone, it could work. And even with that, we would need people to act responsibly.
 

 I don’t see the tracking teams of Korea working here. Too big. Too many people. No infrastructure for it. But it sure as ***** works to test the hell out of people and track contacts. Their success rate is amazing. 

[Foxx]

we will not be going back to Kansas. the world has changed forever more.

[123719bwiqrb]

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I agree with most of this (maybe not the Middle Ages hyperbole but I’ll go with risk of long term depression). The tracking can be done via cell phones. Not perfect but if we are tracking 85% of the population and contract tracking via an app that warned you when you had been in close contact with someone, it could work. And even with that, we would need people to act responsibly.
 

 I don’t see the tracking teams of Korea working here. Too big. Too many people. No infrastructure for it. But it sure as ***** works to test the hell out of people and track contacts. Their success rate is amazing. 

 

I'm ok with that app idea - but what would the voluntary compliance be, 25%?  I don't think you could get 50% of people in the US using it.  I guess 25% is better than nothing.

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

I'm ok with that app idea - but what would the voluntary compliance be, 25%?  I don't think you could get 50% of people in the US using it.  I guess 25% is better than nothing.

25% would be nothing. Without tracking, we are just saying “***** it.” 
 

And if you want a private solution, get Walmart, Target, McD, Starbucks, etc to have a greeter That scans  your App on the way in or turn your ass around. If the app shows that it’s been “active” and not disabled for 10 days, come on in and shop. If not, see ya.
 

That would get some compliance. Voluntary but the price of getting the benefits of the economy. If you want to be a purist about your rights until this passes, grow your own food. 
 

People could of course work around it but most would understand that like mask wearing (what about all the robberies...clutches pearls), this is an important piece of getting back to work. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by shoshin

[Nanker]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

we will not be going back to Kansas. the world has changed forever more.

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang, but a whimper. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 minutes ago, shoshin said:

And if you want a private solution, get Walmart, Target, McD, Starbucks, etc to have a greeter That scans  your App on the way in or turn your ass around. If the app shows that it’s been “active” and not disabled for 10 days, come on in and shop. If not, see ya.

No, that would get people to shop elsewhere. No business is going to willingly turn away customers. 

[IYKYK]

29 minutes ago, shoshin said:

25% would be nothing. Without tracking, we are just saying “***** it.” 
 

And if you want a private solution, get Walmart, Target, McD, Starbucks, etc to have a greeter That scans  your App on the way in or turn your ass around. If the app shows that it’s been “active” and not disabled for 10 days, come on in and shop. If not, see ya.
 

That would get some compliance. Voluntary but the price of getting the benefits of the economy. If you want to be a purist about your rights until this passes, grow your own food. 
 

People could of course work around it but most would understand that like mask wearing (what about all the robberies...clutches pearls), this is an important piece of getting back to work. 

Nope, ***** that idea!

I don't want the government tracking me. The cure would be worse than the disease. 

[3rdnlng]

3 hours ago, TH3 said:

 

The "plan" the WH is going to have is a plan to make them look good. The WH will say that the US is open for business and leave the details to the states. This way - if the states go slow....they can say ...."Hey...we opened it up but they slowed it down". This makes the idiots like the regulars here to think everything would be cool if we just did it DT's way....but since you did not do it DT's way...whelp - can't blame him....and if people die....well its the liberal states did not get it right...because liberals...

 

Same thing with the malaria drug....its the perfect "out" for DT...."Hey...I was pushing the magic cure...if everyone was to use it...the death rate would have been lower" Same thing - the 5th avenues here are already on track that Fauci and Gates are conspirators and its not DT's fault - because he had the answer...

 

The plan should be stringent and constant testing - if you are clean or had it...you get a bracelet that clears you for action. Track and trace until the threat is gone or their is a vaccine. Prescient...but that is what they did in Contagion ....Pretty simple....blocking and tackiling

Don't you mean the fish tank cleaner that Trump prescribed to an Arizona couple?

[IDBillzFan]

17 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....with final PPP regs being issued last Thursday at 10PM, the banking industry went into turmoil studying the new verbiage, thinking that customers who initially did qualify, now WOULD NOT....Bank of America was one who suspended all loan applications and is now facing multiple lawsuits.....M&T Bank, based in Buffalo with a significant presence on the East Coast, did not launch the site application until yesterday.....500 applicants crashed their system.....normal SBA guidelines have been relaxed so a company I know entered their "number of employees of >500" and their app was rejected, referencing normal SBA guidelines.....another regional bank in Rochester had 15 employees do on-line training for PPP and Disaster Loan processing....SBA does have TWO on-line  loan platforms as in pre Covid-19 and current Covid-19 programs.....they trained on the PRE-COVID 19 system which was a huge waste....existing customers are livid.....I completed our corporate PPP app last night, met with our bank execs this morning and within 5 minutes of submittal, SBA issued us a confirming application number.....our bank has their stuff together and is processing fluidly for customers and non-customers.....there are NO SBA fees but banks get a percentage commission based on loan size, starting at 5% and scaling down to 1%.....our bank, being "on top of it", is experiencing an exponential new customer growth curve due to their readiness....

 

Their readiness is the key. My company banks Wells Fargo, and I was working with them right up to  submitting a WF-created app on Saturday a.m. that essentially allowed them to size up the requests more quickly based on their own designs.

 

This, then, led them to stop taking applications as of Monday a.m. and capping their total loan amount to $10M, focusing on companies with 50 or fewer employees and non-profits. They acknowledged my paperwork, and now I wait because you're not supposed to apply to more than one bank. They insist you can't call them them about this...you just need to be patient.

 

In other words, they have apparently decided they're willing to lose $10M in this if things go wrong, and that will essentially hang me out to dry.

 

It looks like the feds are trying to add another $250B to this. If I don't hear anything today, I'll have to risk going to another bank.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Their readiness is the key. My company banks Wells Fargo, and I was working with them right up to  submitting a WF-created app on Saturday a.m. that essentially allowed them to size up the requests more quickly based on their own designs.

 

This, then, led them to stop taking applications as of Monday a.m. and capping their total loan amount to $10M, focusing on companies with 50 or fewer employees and non-profits. They acknowledged my paperwork, and now I wait because you're not supposed to apply to more than one bank. They insist you can't call them them about this...you just need to be patient.

 

In other words, they have apparently decided they're willing to lose $10M in this if things go wrong, and that will essentially hang me out to dry.

 

It looks like the feds are trying to add another $250B to this. If I don't hear anything today, I'll have to risk going to another bank.

 

Did they provide you with an SBA confirmation number? Once our bank submitted the app, they received a confirmation number to acknowledge SBA receipt.