Rumor:Miami Dolphins reportedly will give 3 first round picks to the Bengals in exchange for their 1st overall pick for Burrow.

[BananaSquad]

16 minutes ago, foreboding said:

If hes a legit franchise qb, it's worth it, as you really cannot succeed without one. Of course we wont know that for 2 to 3 years, at least. Kid seems to have "it" though. Prefer him not on AFCE. Depends entirely on how the bengals feel.

I’d rather Tua stay out of the AFCE. I hope the Dolphins take Herbert or the Chargers trade ahead of them . 

[NickelCity]

On 3/22/2020 at 5:15 PM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Didn’t know Chad Pennington even had a ceiling lol. Another QB draft bust from the Jets lol

 

Not sure I consider Pennington a bust.  

 

And I don't want the Dolphins getting Burrow!

Edited March 31, 2020 by NickelCity

[MrEpsYtown]

Burrow to me is Sam Bradford, without the injuries, who put up massive numbers on a stacked team. Burrow has skills obviously, but if i’m the Bengals I totally do that deal. I think Burrow has a high floor and I think he will be good. I’m just not sure if he’s going to be much better than Dalton-Bradford type of career.

 

If I’m Cincy I take Miami’s top two picks and their first next year. 

[Adam]

On 3/22/2020 at 8:11 PM, whatdrought said:

For one, it's definitely Burrow. Not Burrows. And for two, do you have a link, or any form of validation for this? 

 

As for the rumor itself, that would be pretty dumb, but I would probably be okay with it. I can root for him to be a bust as much as anyone else.

Well for three first round picks, it had better be Burrows. They can draft him twice and have one as a backup

[C.Biscuit97]

I pray they do this because it would be incredibly dumb.  I like Burrow and his attitude but it does make me a little wary he has one year of success on an absolutely loaded offense.  

[BigBillsFan]

16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think it's crazy the love fest he is getting. He was barely on the draft radar as a top 5 round QB last year

 

His meteoric rise is uncanny and crazy

 

All he did was have the greatest year in college history. That usually merits some love

[BillsFan4]

In a way, I’d almost prefer them to do this, vs. landing Tua with their original 1st and getting to use the other 2 first rounders on 2 other (potentially) good players.

 

At least if this happens they’re putting all their eggs in one basket.

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

All he did was have the greatest year in college history. That usually merits some love

There are dozens and dozens of college superstars with great seasons who never did Jack squat in the pros

 

He was the oldest person on the field every time he stepped on it he should have dominated

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

In a way, I’d almost prefer them to do this, vs. landing Tua with their original 1st and getting to use the other 2 first rounders on 2 other (potentially) good players.

 

At least if this happens they’re putting all their eggs in one basket.

 

Cincy better get a number one pick in 2021 from Miami in this deal. Pick 1 for 5, 18, and 26 along with mid round picks isn't good enough value. If I were Cincy I would in a heartbeat take picks 5, 18, and 26 along with Miami or Houston's 2021 1st and Miami's 5th in 2020. 

 

I think Burrow is more of a Sam Bradford type QB, low ceiling high floor type QB. In a lot of drafts like 2018 he wouldn't be the top pick. If you can get 3 premium selections plus pocket a future 1st and get a mid-round pick or two tossed for a good but not great QB prospect I would take it. Cincy should just avoid drafting a QB and set their sights on building a more complete roster with that boat load of picks. And having an extra first in 2021 gets you another ticket at drafting Trevor Lawrence. 

[BigBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are dozens and dozens of college superstars with great seasons who never did Jack squat in the pros

 

He was the oldest person on the field every time he stepped on it he should have dominated

 

What you said is true. But it runs both ways. There are hundreds of college studs who were pro duds as well as many college studs who were pro duds.

 

But can you tell me of 1 college QB with the greatest season in history, playing in the hardest conference, who won the championship who shouldn't be shown love? Doesn't exist.

 

We wasn't throwing for Washington St, but LSU in the SEC.

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

What you said is true. But it runs both ways. There are hundreds of college studs who were pro duds as well as many college studs who were pro duds.

 

But can you tell me of 1 college QB with the greatest season in history, playing in the hardest conference, who won the championship who shouldn't be shown love? Doesn't exist.

 

We wasn't throwing for Washington St, but LSU in the SEC.

In a honest to God down year in the SEC. Saban had his worst defense since his first year there

 

Burrow has good qualities and should come in day 1 and start. But he is not the next coming and has some questions marks

 

Trevor Lawrence would 100% go over him if available this season and Just Fields probably would too

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Buffalo716

[CommonCents]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

There are dozens and dozens of college superstars with great seasons who never did Jack squat in the pros

 

He was the oldest person on the field every time he stepped on it he should have dominated

He dominated because of his age? Oh jeez. You done gone mad!!!!!

 

He fits the build of a modern day QB, some mobility, quick reads and accurate. I see people saying he could be like Dalton? It’s just as likely he is closer to Brees. The league is built for guys like JB. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

He dominated because of his age? Oh jeez. You done gone mad!!!!!

 

He fits the build of a modern day QB, some mobility, quick reads and accurate. I see people saying he could be like Dalton? It’s just as likely he is closer to Brees. The league is built for guys like JB. 

It's certainly is a reason. Being 23 playing 18-22 year olds is easier than being 18 playing 22 year olds

 

When he was an underclassmen he wasn't a top prospect. That shows he doesn't have the potential as a Luck or Generational QB. Who played above his year...burrow didn't do that

 

And yes imo he is alot closer to a Andy Dalton than a Andrew Luck or Drew Brees. He wouldn't even be drafted ahead of Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields

[CommonCents]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

It's certainly is a reason. Being 23 playing 18-22 year olds is easier than being 18 playing 22 year olds

 

When he was an underclassmen he wasn't a top prospect. That shows he doesn't have the potential as a Luck or Generational QB. Who played above his year...burrow didn't do that

 

And yes imo he is alot closer to a Andy Dalton than a Andrew Luck or Drew Brees. He wouldn't even be drafted ahead of Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields

Wouldn’t be drafted ahead of Trevor Lawrence, that covers just about everyone. Come on. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, CommonCents said:

Wouldn’t be drafted ahead of Trevor Lawrence, that covers just about everyone. Come on. 

I don't think he would be drafted ahead of Fields either , Sam Darnold would probably go ahead of him. Browns took Baker over Darnold

 

He is a good prospect but not nearly the best or close to best QB prospect I've seen in my lifetime around the game

 

He is Josh Allens age and Allen just played 2 years in the league. Allen just had 30 NFL TDs, he could very well have 60 in college

 

I think Burrow is good not elite

[CommonCents]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he would be drafted ahead of Fields either , Sam Darnold would probably go ahead of him. Browns took Baker over Darnold

 

He is a good prospect but not nearly the best or close to best QB prospect I've seen in my lifetime around the game

 

He is Josh Allens age and Allen just played 2 years in the league. Allen just had 30 NFL TDs, he could very well have 60 in college

 

I think Burrow is good not elite

I love Allen, comparing Allen and Burrow as passers in an honest moment!? Youch.

 

Life is painful enough right now, let’s table this one. The only similarities between Burrow and Dalton is that stooopid look they have on their faces. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I love Allen, comparing Allen and Burrow as passers in an honest moment!? Youch.

 

Life is painful enough right now, let’s table this one. The only similarities between Burrow and Dalton is that stooopid look they have on their faces. 

I think Allen will have a better career than Burrow. Burrow is more polished but Allen makes throws he can never make and will never make

 

Burrow will have a problem with throws outside the numbers in the NFL , real NFL throws

 

Watch , I'm not coming off my opinion and he will prove to not live up to the hype

 

He isn't anything special and he throws alot of floaters that work in college not the pros

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Buffalo716

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think he would be drafted ahead of Fields either , Sam Darnold would probably go ahead of him. Browns took Baker over Darnold

 

He is a good prospect but not nearly the best or close to best QB prospect I've seen in my lifetime around the game

 

He is Josh Allens age and Allen just played 2 years in the league. Allen just had 30 NFL TDs, he could very well have 60 in college

 

I think Burrow is good not elite

 

Burrow just turned 23 whereas Allen is about to turn 24 in May. Your point is valid but it isn't like they are the same age exactly.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, billsfan89 said:

 

Burrow just turned 23 whereas Allen is about to turn 24 in May. Your point is valid but it isn't like they are the same age exactly.

My point is one is Killing college , the other just had 30 NFL TDs

 

If people don't think maturity and experience in college are critical they are crazy

 

Joe Burrow left Ohio State because he WASNT STARTING over Dwayne Haskins

[MassHog]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:02 PM, Buffalo716 said:

He can't make every NFL throw . His deep outs and comebacks wobbled in college and even nose dived way more than you'd like

 

He won't be completing big time throws outside the hashes with ease in the NFL

More than you'd like?

The guy threw at a 76.3% completion percentage. Clearly he is making the throws

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, MassHog said:

More than you'd like?

The guy threw at a 76.3% completion percentage. Clearly he is making the throws

Yea inside the numbers.

 

He had lots of balls nosedive outside the hashes. I watched every throw 

 

Besides the all time NCAA completion list is riddled with guys who never did anything in the pros

 

I can't think of one top prospect with as little arm strength of Burrow off my head. I'm talking legit top 5 prospect

 

Urban said while at Ohio State, he threw like a girl. He was never starting at OSU

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea inside the numbers.

 

He had lots of balls nosedive outside the hashes. I watched every throw 

 

Besides the all time NCAA completion list is riddled with guys who never did anything in the pros

 

I can't think of one top prospect with as little arm strength of Burrow off my head. I'm talking legit top 5 prospect

 

Urban said while at Ohio State, he threw like a girl. He was never starting at OSU

Haskins beat out Burrow so he transferred. But that doesn't mean that Burrow is an inferior prospect compared to Haskins. Burrow doesn't have the arm strength of Haskins or a lot of other prior prospects but he does have the ability to make reads and accurately throw the ball. Most draft analysts have Burrow as the #1 qb prospect and Tua as the #2. Bucky Brooks rates Tua as the #1 qb prospect in this class.

 

This is the time of year where all prospects get over analyzed. No prospect is perfect. But as the first qb off the board he is worthy of that lofty distinction. That doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the most successful qb out of this draft but that might be more due to the organization he goes to and the support system he has to work with.  

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Haskins beat out Burrow so he transferred. But that doesn't mean that Burrow is an inferior prospect compared to Haskins. Burrow doesn't have the arm strength of Haskins or a lot of other prior prospects but he does have the ability to make reads and accurately throw the ball. Most draft analysts have Burrow as the #1 qb prospect and Tua as the #2. Bucky Brooks rates Tua as the #1 qb prospect in this class.

 

This is the time of year where all prospects get over analyzed. No prospect is perfect. But as the first qb off the board he is worthy of that lofty distinction. That doesn't necessarily mean that he will be the most successful qb out of this draft but that might be more due to the organization he goes to and the support system he has to work with.  

Those are well thought-out points and yes it doesn't mean he's necessarily inferior to Haskins, but it clearly does show that he's not some world-class prospect

 

He's a good prospect with some nice traits that can flourish in the right system

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Those are well thought-out points and yes it doesn't mean he's necessarily inferior to Haskins, but it clearly does show that he's not some world-class prospect

 

He's a good prospect with some nice traits that can flourish in the right system

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. But that qualifier  applies to every drafted qb. Andrew Luck was by many accounts one of the highest rated qbs coming out of college since Elway. The expectations were so high that the Colts pushed out Peyton, a future HOF qb. So instead of making it a point of emphasis to build a credible OL to protect him (their franchise saving investment) their GM patched together a mediocre line that got their qb battered. The point is obvious here. If you are going to make a major investment you need to put that qb in a position to succeed. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. But that qualifier  applies to every drafted qb. Andrew Luck was by many accounts one of the highest rated qbs coming out of college since Elway. The expectations were so high that the Colts pushed out Peyton, a future HOF qb. So instead of making it a point of emphasis to build a credible OL to protect him (their franchise saving investment) their GM patched together a mediocre line that got their qb battered. The point is obvious here. If you are going to make a major investment you need to put that qb in a position to succeed. 

For sure but Andrew Luck could play in any system. I don't think the same about Mr Burrow

 

But the point is the same, you need to surround your Young QB with talent to help him grow

[JohnC]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

For sure but Andrew Luck could play in any system. I don't think the same about Mr Burrow

 

But the point is the same, you need to surround your Young QB with talent to help him grow

I never understood the system argument as a reason to denigrate/diminish a qb. Tom Brady and Brees are to an extent system qbs. Athletically, they are more limited than a lot of qbs from a mobility and arm strength standpoints. Yet both are longstanding great qbs. Burrow playing with the dinosaur OC two years ago was a far different qb compared to last year with a younger and more enlightened OC. The issue for a coach at any position is to put the player in a position to emphasize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. 

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I never understood the system argument as a reason to denigrate/diminish a qb. Tom Brady and Brees are to an extent system qbs. Athletically, they are more limited than a lot of qbs from a mobility and arm strength standpoints. Yet both are longstanding great qbs. Burrow playing with the dinosaur OC two years ago was a far different qb compared to last year with a younger and more enlightened OC. The issue for a coach at any position is to put the player in a position to emphasize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. 

Yes but unfortunately in football it isn't so clear cut

 

Football coaches spend a lifetime perfecting and building their scheme. Very few guys can transcend all them

 

Brady and Brees got their match made in heaven. It is unclear if Burrow will

 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes but unfortunately in football it isn't so clear cut

 

Football coaches spend a lifetime perfecting and building their scheme. Very few guys can transcend all them

 

Brady and Brees got their match made in heaven. It is unclear if Burrow will

 

I agree that few players can transcend all of the various systems. But that's my point. There shouldn't be a need to. What distinguishes the good coaches from the mediocre ones are their ability to adapt to the players they have on hand. I really don't believe in the concept of perfecting a scheme (as you state it) because the opposition is constantly adjusting to what you do and you don't always have all your players perfectly fit your ingrained scheme. The ability to constantly adjust to the changing nature of the game because of the changing rules makes it an imperative to be flexible. The bottom line is production. If a limited player is more productive in a more suited scheme than the more talented player then the limited player is the better player. 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree that few players can transcend all of the various systems. But that's my point. There shouldn't be a need to. What distinguishes the good coaches from the mediocre ones are their ability to adapt to the players they have on hand. I really don't believe in the concept of perfecting a scheme (as you state it) because the opposition is constantly adjusting to what you do and you don't always have all your players perfectly fit your ingrained scheme. The ability to constantly adjust to the changing nature of the game because of the changing rules makes it an imperative to be flexible. The bottom line is production. If a limited player is more productive in a more suited scheme than the more talented player then the limited player is the better player. 

Of course the best coaches are always adjusting but very few change their scheme they've been working on their whole life

 

You will never see McDermott run a 34 attacking man defense. Just like Rex forced his 34 hybrid here

 

Burrow will need to go to a spread offense for his game to take off in the NFL. Stick him under center and he won't last

 

 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course the best coaches are always adjusting but very few change their scheme they've been working on their whole life

 

You will never see McDermott run a 34 attacking man defense. Just like Rex forced his 34 hybrid here

 

Burrow will need to go to a spread offense for his game to take off in the NFL. Stick him under center and he won't last

 

 

I don't think we really disagree. If you draft a Burrow or a Tua or a Josh Allen you have to put them in a system that is conducive to their individual talents. If a HC is wedded to a system where Burrow can thrive then he shouldn't be drafted by that team. I agree with you that McDermott wouldn't run a 34 defense. But he is astute enough to get an OC who can run a system that is suitable to JA. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, JohnC said:

I don't think we really disagree. If you draft a Burrow or a Tua or a Josh Allen you have to put them in a system that is conducive to their individual talents. If a HC is wedded to a system where Burrow can thrive then he shouldn't be drafted by that team. I agree with you that McDermott wouldn't run a 34 defense. But he is astute enough to get an OC who can run a system that is suitable to JA. 

Agree and nice conversation

[DJB]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course the best coaches are always adjusting but very few change their scheme they've been working on their whole life

 

You will never see McDermott run a 34 attacking man defense. Just like Rex forced his 34 hybrid here

 

Burrow will need to go to a spread offense for his game to take off in the NFL. Stick him under center and he won't last

 

 

 

Well Chan plays spread so if he goes to Miami it's a good fit

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

Well Chan plays spread so if he goes to Miami it's a good fit

Chan is a very underrated offensive coach. He can do alot without much talent

 

His offense while here was way ahead of the curve. He was built for a 2020 offense

[Richard Noggin]

Good stuff here, gang.

 

I find it difficult to disagree with what I'm reading. Some of you value college production, and others (mostly one personnel evaluator here) value traits. 

 

Burrow's production was legendary this past season. No doubt. But will he be able to enjoy similar success at the next level, with different coaching and much greater competition both physically and schematically? That's the question. 

 

When Kirk Cousins was on the market a couple years ago, I had decided I wanted the Bills to go all-in on a precise pocket passer like him. I convinced myself he was the answer, and that NFL success still requires pocket precision above all else. And I think that is right, IF (and maybe only if) a number of other offensive factors are consistently accounted for (like scheme, protection, running game, weapons, etc.) at an above-average level. Immobile guys with average-ish arms (like a Cousins or a Brady, for example) have a difficult time producing at a high level when things around them break down. And more often than not in the NFL, things break down a bit. 

 

With the margins as thin as they are these days, it seems like physical gifts and improvisational ability are damn near essential to NFL success (let's just set aside the TB12 outlier for SO MANY reasons). Sure, a Manning and a Brees can win one or two 'ships when everything lines up (even though that was a while back now), and can certainly be successful overall. But who will be winning the next ten SBs? Probably REALLY physically talented QBs who also play the position well.   

[MrEpsYtown]

Cincinnati must be at least a little scared when you see Burrow’s touchdown record right next to David Klinger’s name.

[BuffaloFan68]

I still feel Herbert will end up being the best QB in this draft so as long as he doesn’t end up in Miami, then I’m good.

Lets Go Buffalo!!!

[Buffalo716]

38 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Good stuff here, gang.

 

I find it difficult to disagree with what I'm reading. Some of you value college production, and others (mostly one personnel evaluator here) value traits. 

 

Burrow's production was legendary this past season. No doubt. But will he be able to enjoy similar success at the next level, with different coaching and much greater competition both physically and schematically? That's the question. 

 

When Kirk Cousins was on the market a couple years ago, I had decided I wanted the Bills to go all-in on a precise pocket passer like him. I convinced myself he was the answer, and that NFL success still requires pocket precision above all else. And I think that is right, IF (and maybe only if) a number of other offensive factors are consistently accounted for (like scheme, protection, running game, weapons, etc.) at an above-average level. Immobile guys with average-ish arms (like a Cousins or a Brady, for example) have a difficult time producing at a high level when things around them break down. And more often than not in the NFL, things break down a bit. 

 

With the margins as thin as they are these days, it seems like physical gifts and improvisational ability are damn near essential to NFL success (let's just set aside the TB12 outlier for SO MANY reasons). Sure, a Manning and a Brees can win one or two 'ships when everything lines up (even though that was a while back now), and can certainly be successful overall. But who will be winning the next ten SBs? Probably REALLY physically talented QBs who also play the position well.   

I certainly value production but there are hundreds of productive college QBs who didn't make it

 

It takes alot more than college production though and traits are what sets prospects apart anyways

 

He certainly has some good traits and 1 year of production but his other tape leaves alot to be desired

[Richard Noggin]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I certainly value production but there are hundreds of productive college QBs who didn't make it

 

It takes alot more than college production though and traits are what sets prospects apart anyways

 

He certainly has some good traits and 1 year of production but his other tape leaves alot to be desired

That's exactly what I was getting at. Fans often see college production and success and want a player based on that past performance at a lower level of difficulty. Scouts often see through all that to focus on the traits to project how the player might perform under VERY different conditions at the NFL level. 

 

Both approaches get it wrong. Both have merit. I tend to weight it 60/40 in favor of traits. Maybe more. The experts are usually better at this than the fans. But not always.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

That's exactly what I was getting at. Fans often see college production and success and want a player based on that past performance at a lower level of difficulty. Scouts often see through all that to focus on the traits to project how the player might perform under VERY different conditions at the NFL level. 

 

Both approaches get it wrong. Both have merit. I tend to weight it 60/40 in favor of traits. Maybe more. The experts are usually better at this than the fans. But not always.

Ahhh gotcha I understand

 

And certainly agree. I'm far from foolproof but I do look at the jump that create those very different and difficult circumstances

 

Burrow certainly checks most of the boxes but not all of them for me and I do worry about his ability to thread the needle in an NFL game

 

 

[JetsFan20]

QBs drafted in Top 3 since 2010 (Bold still with the team that drafted them)

 

2010: Sam Bradford

2011: Cam Newton

2012: Andrew Luck, RG3

2014: Blake Bortles

2015: Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota

2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz

2017: Mitch Trubisky

2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold

2019: Kyler Murray

let’s be honest outside of Luck none of these QBs have really been transformative players. Newton and Wentz have and big seasons, but both are injury prone. Goff has had his moments, but was brutal last year. Trubisky is on his last leg in Chicago. Mayfield and Darnold need to show something next year, and Murray to me is somewhat overrated in that dink and dunk offense.