Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 3 hours ago, driddles said: LDS asks church members to wear masks Israel announces antibody that neutralizes virus There are several posts in the Facts thread about development of antibody biotherapeutics that neutralize the virus. The problem is moving from development, to clinical trials and proving they are safe and effective in Vivo There are a number of drug candidate antibodies in that boat in this country, in China, and in Europe EDIT: here’s the most recent monoclonal antibody therapeutics post from the Covid Facts thread Free Bonus link to Derek Lowe update from early June Aside: the Yucatán Times, New You Can Rely On? ?♂️ Quote 30 year old dies after attending Coronavirus party Mutation in Arizona Coronavirus may make it more infectious It’s perhaps a bit misleading to say “mutation in Arizona Coronavirus”. The mutation was identified back in April, and the virus carrying it has become the dominant strain in Europe and in European derived infections (much of the US). I’m probably overdue to update this in the Facts thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 What TF is wrong with these people? Seriously, harassing underpaid and overexposed grocery store workers with their nasty maskless snotulum producing viz, is that really the best thing these guys and gals got going on in their lives? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Quote A doctor from Methodist Hospital in San Antonio said a young man died after attending a COVID-19 party. “One of the things that was heart wrenching that he said to his nurse was, you know, I think I made a mistake. And this young man went to a COVID party,” said Dr. Jane Appleby, Chief Medical Officer at Methodist Hospital. Appleby said the man who died was 30 years old. “He didn’t really believe. He thought the disease was a hoax. He thought he was young and he was invincible and wouldn’t get affected by the disease,” Dr. Appleby said. She said some young patients don’t realize how sick they really are. “People will come in initially and they don’t look so bad. They don’t look really sick, but when you check their oxygen levels and you check their lab tests, they’re really sicker than they appear on the surface,” Appleby said. “My plea to our community and especially all of our young folks in the community is to take it seriously. Wear your mask,” Appleby said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Link to Facts thread post with interview with one of the top epidemiologists in the world, Larry Brilliant. He goes into detail about how he thinks we can deal with the resurgence. I think it's noteworthy that "re-impose stay at home order/mass closures" is NOT one of his suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Don't believe everything you read on Facebook. But apparently, this is a real dude and his real Facebook feed in fact had these posts. And sadly for his family and friends, he is no longer with us.https://thecourierdaily.com/richard-rose-covid-19-port-clinton-ohio-donald/22423/?fbclid=IwAR1A9NGiAsbbt4gJblVn0Vngz1FhhaChrdiUPa0yUzHzZ_g2BOL2Bl7VJt8 Army vet. Survived tours in Iraq and Afghanistan ? I would just like to say it's possible that he was hypoxic before he began to experience breathing distress If you can afford it, consider buying a pulse oximeter for your family. (Cost used to be $10, now more like $30). One learning about covid-19 is that people who are actually so low in blood oxygen that they're damaging their internal organs, do not feel short of breath. Blood clotting problems causing organ damage can also be a silent issue. A tele-health appointment where you show your pulse oximeter results and get an order to obtain a test called "d-dimer" (to check for clotting) could demonstrate the need for oxygen and for anticoagulant therapy, both of which are available on an outpatient basis if hospitals in your area are too full. Someone who is short of breath should absolutely be actively seeking medical help, at least to the point of evaluating blood oxygen levels and explaining "prone position" and other home therapies. Don't be "fobbed off" with an inhaler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 7 hours ago, driddles said: 30 year old dies after attending Coronavirus party Thank you Darwin. Quote “He didn’t really believe. He thought the disease was a hoax. He thought he was young and he was invincible and wouldn’t get affected by the disease,” Dr. Appleby said. This story may save some other idiots. But it will not be "FreedomGirl" Quote Such a vague article. The article doesn’t state how long ago he attended this party and how long he had symptoms. Also, did he have any underlying health conditions like diabetes or heart issues? Nevertheless, very sad situation. Poor guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottaRun Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Days since last peak of new covid-19 cases (7 Day Average) From DataIsBeautiful on Reddit Edited July 12, 2020 by driddles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottaRun Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Oh my God - what are they doing? Florida sets new record with 15,299 new cases on Sunday "A month ago fewer than 5 percent of tests returned positive results, while over the past week, more than 19 percent of tests were positive. " Edited July 12, 2020 by driddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Link to Facts thread post with interview with one of the top epidemiologists in the world, Larry Brilliant. He goes into detail about how he thinks we can deal with the resurgence. I think it's noteworthy that "re-impose stay at home order/mass closures" is NOT one of his suggestions. Brilliant! Seriously a very good interview. Thanks for linking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/news/mask-resistance-during-pandemic-isnt-115358176.html Not super funny and no real relevance to breaking news Keep Church windows open. Open Face Sneezers to be arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: https://www.yahoo.com/news/mask-resistance-during-pandemic-isnt-115358176.html Not super funny and no real relevance to breaking news Keep Church windows open. Open Face Sneezers to be arrested. Avoid worry, fear, and fatigue. Good luck with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 CDC's 'best estimate' is 40 percent COVID-19 infections are asymptomatic A person with COVID-19 is still 'likely to infect' 2.5 other people By Chris Ciaccia | Fox News In updated guidance, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said its "best estimate" is that 40 percent of people infected with COVID-19 are asymptomatic. In the update, posted July 10, the CDC said the basic reproduction number or the number of people one person "is likely to infect" is 2.5, and the infectiousness level of asymptomatic people is 75 percent, relative to symptomatic patients. The government agency added a new part to its report, an "Infection Fatality Ratio," which "takes into account both symptomatic and asymptomatic cases and may therefore be a more directly measurable parameter for disease severity for COVID-19." The new metric states that 0.65 percent of those with COVID-19 are estimated to die. In late May, the CDC estimated that 35 percent of patients could be asymptomatic, Fox News previously reported. In April, the CDC estimated some 25 percent of cases could be asymptomatic. Asymptomatic COVID-19 patients are of great concern to public health officials and lawmakers due to their ability to spread the virus without knowing they're sick themselves. In June, an official from the World Health Organization said that spread from asymptomatic patients appeared to be "very rare." The comments were walked back a few days later following criticism from many in the scientific community, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, who said the statement was "not correct." https://www.foxnews.com/science/cdc-best-estimate-40-percent-covid-19-infections-asymptomatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: https://www.yahoo.com/news/mask-resistance-during-pandemic-isnt-115358176.html Not super funny and no real relevance to breaking news Keep Church windows open. Open Face Sneezers to be arrested. One thing that's interesting is the references to inoculation and to vaccines. I hadn't remembered this but they did, indeed, develop a vaccine during the influenza epidemic. Unfortunately for vaccine effectiveness, a bacteria had been isolated from influenza patients, and was believed at the time to be the cause of the 'flu Since it wasn't eliciting an immune response to the actual cause (influenza virus)....it didn't work ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 It is "facts" but not the type of facts usually posted in other thread Texas Supreme Court Rules State Republican Party Can’t Force Hot-Spot Houston to Host In-Person Convention https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-supreme-court-rules-state-republican-party-cant-force-hot-spot-houston-to-host-in-person-convention Quote The court ruled that though the party has the right to hold a convention, “those rights do not allow it to simply commandeer use of the Center.” Party officials have said they have plans to host a convention virtually. Houston has become an epicenter of the pandemic, with local officials demanding Gov. Greg Abbott allow another lockdown in the region. I will not give my opinion if more good or bad will come out of that ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 curious of your take on this study, hap. https://academic.oup.com/ehjcimaging/article/doi/10.1093/ehjci/jeaa178/5859292?searchresult=1 ‘Global evaluation of echocardiography in patients with COVID-19‘ Quote Methods and results In a prospective international survey, we captured echocardiography findings in patients with presumed or confirmed COVID-19 between 3 and 20 April 2020. Patient characteristics, indications, findings, and impact of echocardiography on management were recorded. Multivariable logistic regression identified predictors of echocardiographic abnormalities. A total of 1216 patients [62 (52–71) years, 70% male] from 69 countries across six continents were included. Overall, 667 (55%) patients had an abnormal echocardiogram. Left and right ventricular abnormalities were reported in 479 (39%) and 397 (33%) patients, respectively, with evidence of new myocardial infarction in 36 (3%), myocarditis in 35 (3%), and takotsubo cardiomyopathy in 19 (2%). Severe cardiac disease (severe ventricular dysfunction or tamponade) was observed in 182 (15%) patients. In those without pre-existing cardiac disease (n = 901), the echocardiogram was abnormal in 46%, and 13% had severe disease. Independent predictors of left and right ventricular abnormalities were distinct, including elevated natriuretic peptides [adjusted odds ratio (OR) 2.96, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.75–5.05) and cardiac troponin (OR 1.69, 95% CI 1.13–2.53) for the former, and severity of COVID-19 symptoms (OR 3.19, 95% CI 1.73–6.10) for the latter. Echocardiography changed management in 33% of patients. Quote Conclusion In this global survey, cardiac abnormalities were observed in half of all COVID-19 patients undergoing echocardiography. Abnormalities were often unheralded or severe, and imaging changed management in one-third of patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 We're wasting time talking about herd immunity Antibodies to the virus would increase sharply after infection and peak after about two weeks. But then their presence would decline, generally disappearing entirely somewhere between four months and one year. In one case, a person was reinfected with the same strain of coronavirus after just four weeks from first infection. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/13/opinions/herd-immunity-covid-19-uncomfortable-reality-haseltine/index.html Would a vaccine also lose effect after a short while if the above article were true ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) @Hapless Bills Fan, you can remove this post if you want. I wasn’t sure if I should post it but felt it was important enough to post. I have never seen ex-CDC Directors step forward like this before. I think everyone should read their message. Edited July 14, 2020 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Hapless, you can remove this post if you want. I wasn’t sure if I should post it but felt it was important enough to post. I have never seen ex-CDC Directors step forward like this before. I think everyone should read their message. Two words: banana republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottaRun Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. I doubt anyone will be at the home opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. Not if the cancel the season; your record will be in tact. In fact if season is held a lot of records will be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 hours ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. 4 hours ago, Limeaid said: Not if the cancel the season; your record will be in tact. In fact if season is held a lot of records will be broken. IF the games are played (a big if) they will likely be played without fans, IMO. In that case, I'd argue attendance records stay intact, since you have no choice in the matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, The Dean said: IF the games are played (a big if) they will likely be played without fans, IMO. In that case, I'd argue attendance records stay intact, since you have no choice in the matter. It will be to me like 1816, The year without a summer, with the Covid-19 virus being the Mount Tambora volcano explosion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/507321-white-house-tells-hospitals-to-bypass-cdc-on-covid-data-reporting “White House tells hospitals to bypass CDC on COVID-19 data reporting (starting Wednesday)“ Thursday’s headline: “COVID19 magically disappears. No new cases reported in the U.S. today!” ? (kidding, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 The U.S. secretary of education blasted the Fairfax school district's handling of virtual learning and plans for the fall. https://patch.com/virginia/kingstowne/devos-criticizes-fairfax-schools-reopening-plan-leaders-react Quote We see as we talk about reopening schools, there are some creating false paradigms for the fall. And here, right in our neighborhood, the DC area Fairfax County, which is one of the most well-funded, I would call it an elite public school system in America, offered families a so-called choice for this fall: either zero days in school for their students or two days. And their springtime attempt at distance learning was a disaster. But I give this as an example because things like this cannot happen again in the fall. It would fail America's students, and it would fail taxpayers who pay high taxes for their education. Ultimately it's not a matter of if schools should reopen. It's simply a matter of how. Quote They must fully open and they must be fully operational, and how that happens is best left to education and community leaders. Unless you disagree with her boss. Only experience she has in education is as support for school choice and fund raising PAC based on it and organizations which support it. Quote The remarks from [Betty] DeVos come as President Donald Trump threatened to withhold federal funding for schools that do not reopen in the fall. "In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS," the president tweeted. Sweden is one of the WORST examples which could have been used. They basically ignored it allowing it to spread with (reindeer) herd philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: It will be to me like 1816, The year without a summer, with the Covid-19 virus being the Mount Tambora volcano explosion. Will there be snow in Rochester, New York recorded for every month of the year? Ponds freezing in July in New England and mass famine in Europe too? I won't except anything less than starving hoards of heathens at Patriot*Place in Foxborough!? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 10:11 PM, Augie said: Yes, people do die every year. Hard to argue that. That’s as far as I can go here. What’s your point? Covid deaths are a drop in the bucket? Is your mom a drop in the bucket. How about Granny in the nursing home? Do you suggest eliminating seat belts? I hope I misunderstood this, in which case I apologize. It sounds like “cancer doesn’t kill everybody, it’s not that big of a deal.” . Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/15/how-covid-control-freaks-cultivate-americas-culture-of-fear/?fbclid=IwAR2zZSm0Iq8xnknQgdIofmC2_QHkbPL4EYy_0ebdUu5XzU8rurTFuRz4eI8 Quote Consider the consequences of facing our times unafraid: If you are not concerned about initiating a second wave of COVID-19 deaths, you are heartless. If you question whether facemask requirements are diminishing our humanity, you are an idiot. If you believe that freedom to practice religion is more important than preventing every possible bodily tragedy, you are mentally sick. If you chafe at the phrase “these uncertain times” because all times are uncertain, you are underestimating the problem. If you do not worry about the financial security of your family, you are either a despicable plutocrat or an ignorant optimist. Interesting read. Both sides are playing politics with the virus. Quote But in this divided and antagonistic nation, how can we stay safe? The answer is simple. Intimidating those you deem wrong is the key to security. Threats are necessary to ensure justice. Coercion and bullying will bring about political change. You must live in constant fear of others, but constantly make them even more fearful of you, and above all of us must loom the larger fears of poverty, pain, and death. Not only was F.D.R. wrong, so was Patrick Henry. “Give me liberty or give me death”? No. Take my liberty as long as it will protect me from death. Dear America, here is your charge: Keep me safe from viruses, safe from injustice, safe from political upheaval, safe from any unfairness that life might present. In return, I offer up my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I renounce my rights to freedom of religion, of speech, of press, of assembly. Really, it is a small price to sacrifice the abstract for the tangible, isn’t it? Fear makes the Faustian bargain so devilishly tempting. Take my soul, just save my body. He is being facetious of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, LB3 said: Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown. Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 aaaaannnndddd...my kid's daycare had a covid patient. right in her age group. we got our call from the department of health, and she'll be on quarantine until the beginning on next week. so it begins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 49 minutes ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. I want all deaths vs all deaths. I'm thankful your friends came out ok. That's a blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Some would say this is unbelievable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Some would say this is unbelievable. For any other administration, it would be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 18 hours ago, Limeaid said: Sweden is one of the WORST examples which could have been used. They basically ignored it allowing it to spread with (reindeer) herd philosophy. It's actually not true that Sweden ignored covid-19. They issued guidelines calling for voluntary compliance, including asking people to work from home and minimize travel. They closed high schools and colleges. They did leave bars and restaurants and other businesses open. But they may have done more. They may have maintained health care system capacity by triaging health care to the elderly: “Analyzed by categorical age group, older Swedish patients with confirmed COVID-19 were more likely to die than to be admitted to the ICU, suggesting that predicted prognosis may have been a factor in ICU admission,” the researchers write in a study published online for the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. “This likely reduced ICU load at the cost of more high-risk patients dying outside the ICU.” The implication here is that Sweden chose to emphasize personal responsibility, but when the choice led to increased infections among the elderly, medical professionals seem to have taken on the responsibility of choosing who likely lives and dies. Given that the analysis finds not all the nation’s ICU beds were occupied, it’s not even clear that this was necessary." Several analyses posted upthread have shown that Sweden's economy has still taken a substantial hit. Anyway, because Sweden maintained a policy of not contact tracing or testing asymptomatic people, even though they should be a great source of info on what happens to covid-19 transmission when you keep schools open .....THEY DIDN'T COLLECT THE DATA so we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. This. Not just the medical community, but also to the patients. Patients who are released after prolonged stays in the ICU need months of therapy to recover. Some, who have had strokes or organ damage, may suffer life-long debilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Well, hopefully, this is our first and last dictatorship. There is a difference between a Czar and a Dictator. Some dictators were actually competent and not raiding treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's actually not true that Sweden ignored covid-19. They issued guidelines calling for voluntary compliance, including asking people to work from home and minimize travel. They closed high schools and colleges. They did leave bars and restaurants and other businesses open. But they may have done more. They may have maintained health care system capacity by triaging health care to the elderly: “Analyzed by categorical age group, older Swedish patients with confirmed COVID-19 were more likely to die than to be admitted to the ICU, suggesting that predicted prognosis may have been a factor in ICU admission,” the researchers write in a study published online for the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. “This likely reduced ICU load at the cost of more high-risk patients dying outside the ICU.” The implication here is that Sweden chose to emphasize personal responsibility, but when the choice led to increased infections among the elderly, medical professionals seem to have taken on the responsibility of choosing who likely lives and dies. Given that the analysis finds not all the nation’s ICU beds were occupied, it’s not even clear that this was necessary." Several analyses posted upthread have shown that Sweden's economy has still taken a substantial hit. Anyway, because Sweden maintained a policy of not contact tracing or testing asymptomatic people, even though they should be a great source of info on what happens to covid-19 transmission when you keep schools open .....THEY DIDN'T COLLECT THE DATA so we don't know. well, we do know positives and deaths in Sweden are now basically zero.( wish i knew how to screenshot something here, maybe @shoshin can help me out. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ It seems to me also saw graphs in the past that shpw death rate was much greater than the other Nordic countries, and wonder if the practice to triage the elderly had an impact on that. Whole nother debate that... 3 hours ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. going to be interesting to see the studies of things like this in the coming decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Some would say this is unbelievable. TBH, I think it's a response to an overwhelmed and overly bureaucratic reporting process that has been legitimately frustrating members of the covid-19 task force such as Dr. Birx. They are trying to transition to a once-daily update of an online spreadsheet. But, given the background of an administration that has a pattern of misrepresenting the public health situation not to mention politicizing it, it is making a number of people (such as myself) extremely nervous. 26 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: well, we do know positives and deaths in Sweden are now basically zero.( wish i knew how to screenshot something here, maybe @shoshin can help me out. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ It seems to me also saw graphs in the past that shpw death rate was much greater than the other Nordic countries, and wonder if the practice to triage the elderly had an impact on that. I don't know about Worldometer .... From the horse's mouth, positive cases in Sweden are not zero https://www.covid19insweden.com/en/ I mean, if cases in each region have increased between 1% and 8% over the last 7 days, there is no way that "positives are now basically zero", right? And if deaths in 16 of 21 regions have increased between 1% and 5% over the last 7 days, there is no way that "deaths are now basically zero" either? I believe data on cases and deaths may be lagging by 3-7 days, and that may explain Worldometer showing an apparent decrease, but even there it's not zero. I'm gonna guess that if you look in a week, you're going to see cases and deaths similar to ~July 7th or so. So the death rate is declining but it's not zero. (I think they may have figured out they need to test the employees to keep covid-19 out of the care homes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, LB3 said: Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown. I want to know what the true worth of a unified lockdown across the US would have been with leadership at the top intelligent enough to do something as simple as wearing a mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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