Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[K-9]

Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead. 
 

I’m willing to bet that every one of those advisers has access to the best private medical care available, including ventilators should they or their families need them. 

[Figster]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead. 
 

I’m willing to bet that every one of those advisers has access to the best private medical care available, including ventilators should they or their families need them. 

Only real way to slow this virus down is through protection and isolation.

 

This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

 

Italy cases and deaths jumped up again after decline past 2 days.  Sadly.For me use a 3 day if they decline 3 days straight. Might be very good.

[John in Jax]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead.

Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, John in Jax said:

Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision.

 

From a school superintendent:

“In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.”

 

I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio.

[Sundancer]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. 

 

The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. 

[Figster]

 

If you want to use the yearly death totals from the flu virus by way of example then you probably saved thousands more lives through isolation. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Sundancer said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. 

 

The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. 

 

If all our leadership does is shut it down without any real leadership of supporting those bottom earners, then yes.

 

But we seem to have no problem pulling up Trillions of dollars to stimulate the market, so we should have no issues temporarily providing support and assistance to our working class.

[Sundancer]

24 minutes ago, Figster said:

This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. 

 

I've been hearing as few as 6 weeks from experts, but only with equipment, testing, and tracking being ready for this to localize and stamp down outbreaks, which are inevitable. 

 

Broken record here. 

[K-9]

16 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision.

Are these doctors currently on the federal task force? Please feel free to cite them as I’d be interested.

 

I’ve heard lots of varying “opinions” like the one from Richard A. Epstein, a conservative economist with the Hoover Institution, who claimed there would be only 500 deaths in the US due to the virus (we surpassed that yesterday). He’s not alone with these baseless claims, either. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but he’s not alone. And that’s concerning when that’s the line of thinking that seems to be guiding policy options moving forward. 

[Hardhatharry]

22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

From a school superintendent:

“In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.”

 

I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio.

The government isn't allowed to err on the side of public safety b.c it will hurt votes when election comes if people decide "it was no big deal"

[K-9]

39 minutes ago, Figster said:

Only real way to slow this virus down is through protection and isolation.

 

This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. 

I can’t say 12 weeks or 12 months, but until we see that curve start flattening as opposed to the near vertical line currently, we need to do exactly as you said; protection and isolation.

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

From a school superintendent:

“In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.”

 

I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio.

Erring on the side of public safety is a no brainer. It’s appalling that any other line of thought is being considered. 

21 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. 

 

The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. 

Absolutely, the bottom earners will be most impacted as is always the case. 
 

But those bottom earners aren’t driving policy that may end up seriously jeopardizing the public safety. 

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I've been hearing as few as 6 weeks from experts, but only with equipment, testing, and tracking being ready for this to localize and stamp down outbreaks, which are inevitable. 

 

Broken record here. 

People moving from hot spots to what the feel are safer surroundings while contagious is inevitable. My aunt and uncle just brought their daughter back back home from NYC. On one hand you want to say its not safe. On the other, can you fault a parent from wanting to protect their children? Even If it kills them?

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I can’t say 12 weeks or 12 months, but until we see that curve start flattening as opposed to the near vertical line currently, we need to do exactly as you said; protection and isolation.

 How about every essential business has its employeess wearing the proper protection they need to do their job safely. My nephew is in the field today inspecting sprinkler systems in facilities without proper protection.

 

 

[Sundancer]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

 

Erring on the side of public safety is a no brainer. It’s appalling that any other line of thought is being considered. 

 

 

I don't want to get too political, but there's a balancing that has to happen here in deaths vs economic death. It's grim, but it's real. 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

People moving from hot spots to what the feel are safer surroundings while contagious is inevitable. My aunt and uncle just brought their daughter back back home from NYC. On one hand you want to say its not safe. On the other, can you fault a parent from wanting to protect their children? Even If it kills them?

 How about every essential business has its employeess wearing the proper protection they need to do their job safely. My nephew is in the field today inspecting sprinkler systems in facilities without proper protection.

 

 

I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. 

4 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I don't want to get too political, but there's a balancing that has to happen here in deaths vs economic death. It's grim, but it's real. 

Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. 
 

The economy will recover. 
 

Once dead, always dead. 

[Sundancer]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. 

Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. 
 

 

I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight.

 

Quote

 

 

The economy will recover. 

 

Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term.

 

Quote

Once dead, always dead. 

 

These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. 

 

I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Sundancer

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. 

Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. 
 

The economy will recover. 
 

Once dead, always dead. 

I fear the political calculus hinges to a very large degree upon whether the economy can recover sufficiently BY NOVEMBER, hence the push to get 'folks back to work' as soon as possible.

 

And that is the absolute pinnacle of governmental malpractice.

 

 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight.

 

 

Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term.

 

 

These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. 

 

I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. 

Wow. 

[BillsFan4]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I fear the political calculus hinges to a very large degree upon whether the economy can recover sufficiently BY NOVEMBER, hence the push to get 'folks back to work' as soon as possible.

 

And that is the absolute pinnacle of governmental malpractice.

 

 

Absolutely. 

 

Any politicians Re-election should never, ever come before Americans health and safety. That’s a great way to lose my vote, because I certainly won’t be voting for any politician who does that and I know an awful lot of people who feel the same way.

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight.

 

 

Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term.

 

 

These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. 

 

I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. 

Somewhere in the middle doesn't default to kind of bad economy and kind of bad health care disaster. There's a great chance it means ***** economy and ***** health care disaster. 

[John in Jax]

Here’s some Interesting figures. 23,000 people dead from the flu so far this season. Straight from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Absolutely. 

 

Any politicians Re-election should never, ever come before Americans health and safety. That’s a great way to lose my vote, because I certainly won’t be voting for any politician who does that and I know an awful lot of people who feel the same way.

Trump said today that he wants the country opened by Easter. 
 

Well, that’s that. 

[BringBackFergy]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Absolutely. 

 

Any politicians Re-election should never, ever come before Americans health and safety. That’s a great way to lose my vote, because I certainly won’t be voting for any politician who does that and I know an awful lot of people who feel the same way.

I believe the last 6 or 7 posts are all purely political. 
 

So assuming the nation (workforce) is on lockdown and the economy suffers (which it already has), a politician should not be penalized/criticized by his or her opponent (or supporters) for taking such protective action, correct? The economy should not even be a talking point, correct?
 

(Just playing Devil’s Advocate)

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, John in Jax said:

Here’s some Interesting figures. 23,000 people dead from the flu so far this season. Straight from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

 

 

So what? This post just proves (yet again) you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the situation at hand is presenting.

 

As I posted in another thread:

 

Bringing up flu numbers and using them to DISINFORM the COVID situation is like saying: "The sign outside McDonalds says '2 Billion burgers served this year', but when I order 5million at the drive thru it overloads the system. What gives?!?"

 

In the long run, hopefully this turns into just another strain of flu. But the issue right now is that it is new (lot still unknown), and fast spreading all at once.

 

That is what "flattening the curve" is all about. We wont eradicate it completely. But we must take measures to not overload our healthcare system all at once.

[Jauronimo]

13 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Here’s some Interesting figures. 23,000 people dead from the flu so far this season. Straight from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

 

Don't listen to K-9 and Dawkinstein.  They believe in vaccines too.  Whats next, CLIMATE CHANGE?!?!  

 

[John in Jax]

Just now, K-9 said:

Flu numbers are irrelevant to the current pandemic. 

Really? If statistically, I have a better chance of getting the flu and dying vs getting Covod-19 and dying, it’s irrelevant? I guess what’s “relevant” can vary greatly from person to person.

 

Life is full of “risk vs reward” situations, where we all make decisions every day dealing with those situations.

 

But like I said earlier, all the ranting and raving in here about “they didn’t act quickly enough”, or “they’re crazy not to lock down the whole country for X months”, or “it’s way too early to ‘get back to work’ on X date!” mean absolutely nothing, as the only thing we can do is hope that our leaders make the right call. If they don’t, I’m quite certain they will pay for it on Election Day.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Don't listen to K-9 and Dawkinstein.  They believe in vaccines too.  Whats next, CLIMATE CHANGE?!?!  

 

 

Wait until you hear my views on theories such as gravity and evolution, and the earth being round!

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Really? If statistically, I have a better chance of getting the flu and dying vs getting Covod-19 and dying, it’s irrelevant? I guess what’s “relevant” can vary greatly from person to person.

 

Life is full of “risk vs reward” situations, where we all make decisions every day dealing with those situations.

 

But like I said earlier, all the ranting and raving in here about “they didn’t act quickly enough”, or “they’re crazy not to lock down the whole country for X months”, or “it’s way too early to ‘get back to work’ on X date!” mean absolutely nothing, as the only thing we can do is hope that our leaders make the right call. If they don’t, I’m quite certain they will pay for it on Election Day.

There are no apples to apples statistics to support the premise of your argument so you can stop right there and save yourself further embarrassment.  

[BillsFan4]

24 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

I believe the last 6 or 7 posts are all purely political. 
 

So assuming the nation (workforce) is on lockdown and the economy suffers (which it already has), a politician should not be penalized/criticized by his or her opponent (or supporters) for taking such protective action, correct? The economy should not even be a talking point, correct?
 

(Just playing Devil’s Advocate)

Correct. If that’s what the experts said was necessary to save many American lives, then no, I wouldn’t hold the economy against them for following the expert’s guidelines and trying to save American lives.

 

I would actually praise them for doing the right thing.

 

 

26 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Here’s some Interesting figures. 23,000 people dead from the flu so far this season. Straight from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-new-coronavirus-isn-t-like-the-flu-but-they-have-one-big-thing-in-common

Edited March 24, 2020 by BillsFan4

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

There are no apples to apples statistics to support the premise of your argument so you can stop right there and save yourself further embarrassment.  

Oh come on! I'm home isolating and I'm bored.

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

Correct. If that’s what the experts said was necessary to save many American lives, then no, I wouldn’t hold the economy against them for following the expert’s guidelines and trying to save American lives.

 

 

Agreed

[Sundancer]

6 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

I’m just talking about the USA, obviously. ?

 

And the flu sends what percentage of its victims to the hospital for treatment, is transmissible at what rate compared to this, and has a fatality rate of what compared to this? 

 

You're comparing apples to bolt-cutters. 

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Wait until you hear my views on theories such as gravity and evolution, and the earth being round!

 

That last one is just crazy talk!

 

Come on, try to keep it real! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Here’s some Interesting figures. 23,000 people dead from the flu so far this season. Straight from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

 

John, what's your point here?  Are you trying to compare this to flu?  As doctor after doctor seeing covid-19 patients has said:  "this isn't flu"

 

1) Reproduction number - covid-19 2.2 - 2.4 vs 1.3 for flu.  What this means, in practical terms, is that at a number of disease cycles where ~45 people are ill from flu, ~500 people will be ill from covid-19.  It is more contagious, and no one has immunity or partial immunity.

2) Morbidity - 20% of the people who contract covid-19 become severely ill, and require prolonged hospital care of several weeks (including 20-60 year olds)

5% become critically ill and require intensive care, including ventilator support, for up to a month.  This strains hospital and health care capacity in a way flu does not.

 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

Here’s a quick comparison of how covid-19 differs form the flu: 

 

-even if death rates are 1% (so far it looks like they are closer to 2%) that is 10x more deadly than the flu (0.1%)

 

-hospitalization rate are almost 20x higher (almost 1 in 5 that get it need to be hospitalized)

 

- it’s more contagious. Each person that gets covid-19 infects more people than those with the flu do

 

- nobody has any immunity to this virus like the flu

 

- there are no treatments in place for this virus yet

- no vaccines to protect people.

 

- the incubation time is much longer.

 

- it’s not just the elderly at higher risk.

- high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity all raise the risk factor quite significantly (all things America has the highest rates of in the world). As does many other underlying health conditions.

 

https://covidactnow.org

 

Check out this model model to see what peak case + hospitalization rates could be in each state if proper measures aren’t followed (Click on the top of the peak to see the potential hospitalization rates). Our healthcare systems can’t handle it and more people will die because they can’t receive proper treatment. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by BillsFan4

[John in Jax]

12 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

You're comparing apples to bolt-cutters. 

It actually is the ONLY thing that you can compare it to, since, you know, it’s a respiratory issue. I mean we can’t compare it to our nations #1 killer (heart disease) or to vehicle crashes or to suicides or to poison deaths.

 

The thing that amazes me is that all those people die from influenza even though there are specific drugs to treat it.

 

ETA re the post two above this: Apparently, a LOT of people have Covid-19, and they don’t know it/nobody knows it, so those numbers are way skewed. Put another way, if all the people who have it but don’t know it are added to the mix, the hospital/death numbers are a lot lower.

Edited March 24, 2020 by John in Jax

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Really? If statistically, I have a better chance of getting the flu and dying vs getting Covod-19 and dying, it’s irrelevant? I guess what’s “relevant” can vary greatly from person to person.

 

I think you're confusing overall mortality numbers with "chance" eg death rate.

 

More people have died so far from flu because it is already in the population.  But the rate of serious illness (your personal chance of getting very sick from flu) and the case fatality rate (your chance of dying if you get it) both appear to be at best 10x lower in any age group from flu.

 

In addition, the death rate from covid-19 appears to be heavily influenced by how overloaded the hospitals are. 

 

It is running about 9.8% in Italy right now.

 

 

5 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

It actually is the ONLY thing that you can compare it to, since, you know, it’s a respiratory issue. I mean we can’t compare it to our nations #1 killer (heart disease) or to vehicle crashes or to suicides or to poison deaths.

 

The thing that amazes me is that all those people die from influenza even though there are specific drugs to treat it.

 

Fine, we've compared it, and now we know that covid-19 has much higher morbidity and case fatality rates than flu, and it spreads to more people for each infection because of lack of immunity in our population and prolonged presymptomatic or asymptomatic infectious period relative to flu.

 

We aren't going to keep re-hashing the same points over and over, right? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, aristocrat said:

gf finally got her first virus patient last night. orangeburg sc.  lets hope the one mask per shift rule keeps her and us from getting it.  

 

I have nothing i can say to you except "Ohshit" and "God bless her and you; God keep you."

 

Consider that she should wash hands, strip and put clothes in a plastic bag that gets washed separately and shower as soon as she gets home.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you're confusing overall mortality numbers with "chance" eg death rate.

 

More people have died so far from flu because it is already in the population.  But the rate of serious illness (your personal chance of getting very sick from flu) and the case fatality rate (your chance of dying if you get it) both appear to be at best 10x lower in any age group from flu.

 

In addition, the death rate from covid-19 appears to be heavily influenced by how overloaded the hospitals are. 

 

It is running about 9.8% in Italy right now.

 

 

 

Fine, we've compared it, and now we know that covid-19 has much higher morbidity and case fatality rates than flu, and it spreads to more people for each infection because of lack of immunity in our population and prolonged presymptomatic or asymptomatic infectious period relative to flu.

 

We aren't going to keep re-hashing the same points over and over, right? 

It also doesn't have a vaccine

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

It actually is the ONLY thing that you can compare it to, since, you know, it’s a respiratory issue. I mean we can’t compare it to our nations #1 killer (heart disease) or to vehicle crashes or to suicides or to poison deaths.

 

The thing that amazes me is that all those people die from influenza even though there are specific drugs to treat it.

Except that I heard a certain someone at yesterday’s White House briefing make that comparison and using that same false equivalency in justifying policy moving forward.