Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[BringBackFergy]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, I believe that's Sundancer's point - the social distancing is to "flatten the curve" so it stays manageable - but then unless we have measures in place to control it as restrictions are lifted, it will simply peak again.

 

Unless, of course, those who predict a warm-weather diminishment are correct - but then, be prepared for another surge in fall.

I see. Kinda goes back to what I asked you Pages 1-3 (somewhere)...will we see this again every year? C’mon researchers....get that vaccine done!!!! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

It may slow because we are quarantined, but once we lift that, it will spike unless we are much, much, much more prepared. 

 

On another note, sounds like we are moving to a national view of things as the government will start classifying counties by risk. 

 

Even if it slows... NYS just shut down 5 days ago, I think? Italy is a bit more than 2 weeks post shutdown, and while it looks as though they're starting to flatten, it's not peaked yet.  Wuhan took 2 weeks, but their lockdown was more comprehensive and enforced, and after the first surge their HCW had adequate protection.  If nothing else, we're going to see a surge of HCW falling ill.  The limited testing

By the way, to @RocCityRoller, after a short surge of testing many patients for ~4 days, on Friday 20 March New York State stopped testing anyone who wasn't severely enough ill to be immediately hospitalized, due to running out of swabs and low on PPE.  Numerous accounts indicate that their hospitals are filling rapidly and they are turning away many ill patients who have the disease - untested.  They have a lot of very sick people there. 

 

I think you might take the quotes off the 'epidemic'. 

[BillsFan4]

 

[John in Jax]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, I believe that's Sundancer's point - the social distancing is to "flatten the curve" so it stays manageable - but then unless we have measures in place to control it as restrictions are lifted, it will simply peak again.

 

Unless, of course, those who predict a warm-weather diminishment are correct - but then, be prepared for another surge in fall.

I sure hope that one of these drugs they're trying (as treatment if you have the virus) works well! If not, once they start playing sports again, especially college & pro football, I fear that the virus will keep spreading.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

Good point about the timing and, while it’s too late for some areas, this can really benefit areas that are still ahead of the curve. I read somewhere that Nike is gonna produce PPE but I don’t know if that’s true or not. 

 

I getcha, it's just when I read things like this it makes me quite upset.  This should not be happening in 2020 in the USA

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I getcha, it's just when I read things like this it makes me quite upset.  This should not be happening in 2020 in the USA

 

 

That's awful sad  . 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I getcha, it's just when I read things like this it makes me quite upset.  This should not be happening in 2020 in the USA

 

Wow. That was depressing. The richest country in the history of the universe and that’s the reality for the heroes on the front lines of this crisis. It’s beyond shameful. We have a TON of reckoning to do moving forward.

[BringBackFergy]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Wow. That was depressing. The richest country in the history of the universe and that’s the reality for the heroes on the front lines of this crisis. It’s beyond shameful. We have a TON of reckoning to do moving forward.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489622-photo-shows-staff-using-trash-bags-as-protective-gear-in-hospital-system?amp

The nurses had PPE on for their shift. You can see it under the trash bags. The hospital would not let them on duty unless they wore the proper PPE. One would assume they wore the trash bags as an added layer of protection. 
 

So after the AG announced prosecution of anyone hoarding health safety equipment, a CA labor union just happened to find 35 million N95 masks in their inventory. C’mon man...get yer chit together. 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/seiu-locates-39-million-n95-masks-for-healthcare-workers-local-governments/2262072/?amp

Edited March 26, 2020 by BringBackFergy

[Augie]

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

Isn’t that what “flattening the curve” means....stay inside to slow it so it doesn’t peak at an unmanageable level. That’s what we’re doing...most of us anyway. 

 

Yeah, not so much with those who felt self-entitled enough to hit spring break beaches or Mardis Gras. I’m a pretty low key guy, but that really pisses me off! News Flash! New Orleans just hit hard according to the Nightly News. Spring breakers will also help spread it all over the country as they go home. One kid interviewed about “his” spring break made me feel bad for his entire family. Embarrassingly stupid! 

 

 

.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Augie

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

USA now #1 in coronavirus cases. 

 

 

I'd like to see stats over population. Larger countries, more cases and more deaths.

10 hours ago, TigerJ said:

The main way that warm weather affects the spread of disease is through human behavior changes.  In cold weather, people will tend to gather in groups in contained spaces.  Personal space increases out doors where there is so much more space available.  People need to understand that the virus doesn't automatically become less virulent because the temperature goes up.  Social  distancing and good hygiene are still critically important.

 

Heat, especially dry heat, affects ability of viruses to remain virulent on objects.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/489622-photo-shows-staff-using-trash-bags-as-protective-gear-in-hospital-system?amp

The nurses had PPE on for their shift. You can see it under the trash bags. The hospital would not let them on duty unless they wore the proper PPE. One would assume they wore the trash bags as an added layer of protection.

 

Sort of in-between truth here.  What's true is that the CDC has re-defined inappropriate PPE as appropriate. 

 

So, for example, infection control procedures define an N95 respirator mask as the minimum acceptable nose and mouth protection for infectious disease.  They are intended as a single-use disposable item because the outside may become contaminated with infectious particulates, then these could transfer to the inside if great care isn't taken in stowing it for reuse.  (It can not be sprayed with disinfectant as suggested; wetting may alter its filtration properties and renders it unuseable)
 

But, due to shortages, the CDC has literally re-defined a paper facemask as acceptable: "Updated PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19.  Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand." 

 

So now a nurse wearing a facemask is allowed on duty, because the CDC has defined it as acceptable, even though the nurse, the supervisor, and their cat know it's not right.

 

I can't find it, but there is a similar hierarchy of protection applied to gowns.  There's a less expensive gown that protects scrubs, but is not impermeable to splashes or sprays, and a more expensive gown that is protective against moisture and will block splashes and sprays.  Those look like the less expensive ones to me, but not sure, lots of brands.   Also, standards are an isolation gown should be "disposed after each use" meaning each patient.  But if there aren't enough gowns available for that, the nurses have to do something to try to minimize contamination while caring for patients.***  So yes, they have some PPE, the question is "is it the right PPE, or was it re-defined by CDC as OK for now?" "Is it enough to allow good infection control practices, or is it one per shift?" and they're trying to eke them out with trash bags?
 

If the nurses say they're short on PPE, they probably are.  Note that they had a nursing colleague from their hospital become infected and die, which really shouldn't be happening if the PPE is sufficient and the standards of use are adequate.  The nurses are saying they don't have enough PPE thus he was exposed and contracted covid-19. 

 

I tend to believe the 'boots on the ground' myself. 

 

*** edit per the NYT article, nurses are saying the bolded was the case (and thus the reason for the trash bags) - "A nurse who worked with Mr. Kelly said the hospital had offered nurses one plastic protective gown for an entire shift, though normal protocol required a change of gowns between interactions with infected patients."  But the article also said the deceased nurse wasn't wearing PPE at all.  Yikes.

 

Quote

So after the AG announced prosecution of anyone hoarding health safety equipment, a CA labor union just happened to find 35 million N95 masks in their inventory. C’mon man...get yer chit together. 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/seiu-locates-39-million-n95-masks-for-healthcare-workers-local-governments/2262072/?amp

 

Nice people.

[Punching Bag]

48 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

So after the AG announced prosecution of anyone hoarding health safety equipment, a CA labor union just happened to find 35 million N95 masks in their inventory. 

 

I what definition of hoarding is.  I bought masks to ship to my brother-in-law in Hong Kong and one type was acceptable and one was not.  Is it hoarding if you have a box and do not donate it?

[BillsFan4]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I what definition of hoarding is.  I bought masks to ship to my brother-in-law in Hong Kong and one type was acceptable and one was not.  Is it hoarding if you have a box and do not donate it?

You’re good.

 

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/supply-chain/trump-bans-hoarding-scarce-medical-equipment-and-supplies

Quote

“We're not talking about consumers or businesses stockpiling supplies for their own operations," Barr said. "But if you are sitting on a warehouse with . . . surgical masks, you will be hearing a knock on your door."

 

[Jauronimo]

We're #1 at COVID!!!!! It was only a matter of time before we beat China and Italy for most confirmed cases.  Are you guys tired of winning yet?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I what definition of hoarding is.  I bought masks to ship to my brother-in-law in Hong Kong and one type was acceptable and one was not.  Is it hoarding if you have a box and do not donate it?

 

I tend to think that 35 million masks is hoarding, and 1-2 per member of the household is not.

 

I don't think a single box is hoarding, but in the circs I would probably reach out to a nurse or RT friend and see if the type you have is acceptable and donate all but 1-2 per fam.  Edit: I'm not saying that's what you should do, depending upon who is in your family, their risk, what they're job is.  Just what I would do.

[Punching Bag]

Just now, BillsFan4 said:

You’re good.

 

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/supply-chain/trump-bans-hoarding-scarce-medical-equipment-and-supplies

 

 

I wonder if that includes companies in California buying masks and selling them on ebay and Amazon at inflated prices.

[BillsFan4]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

I wonder if that includes companies in California buying masks and selling them on ebay and Amazon at inflated prices.

I hope so.

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I tend to think that 35 million masks is hoarding, and 1-2 per member of the household is not.

 

I don't think a single box is hoarding, but in the circs I would probably reach out to a nurse or RT friend and see if the type you have is acceptable and donate all but 1-2 per fam.

 

The box is not a n95 mask. Actually sent text to sister, a nurse in NC, and she said she had no need for them.  

 

North Carolina is doing an interesting thing - they are preventing sales / rentals of places because the number of people going thru walk-throughs who may leave virus behind.  I know people moving out of places in Virginia because they do not want to share places with someone who they deem "unsafe".

 

U.S. government has 1.5 million expired N95 masks sitting in an Indiana warehouse

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-government-mask-stockpile/2020/03/26/89d729c8-6f5b-11ea-96a0-df4c5d9284af_story.html

 

Quote

The N95 masks, which provide essential protection to medical personnel treating infected patients, are one of the items that have gone lacking in New York City hospitals and across the country in recent days as demand for equipment soars. Manufacturers have said the masks remain effective if stored properly, and the main risk with age is that the masks’ elastic bands can weaken and prevent a proper seal against a user’s face.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Limeaid

[Punching Bag]

 

3M CEO: Our medical masks should not be showing up in stores

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/business/3m-ceo-n95-masks-target/index.html

 

Quote

Every respirator mask that's available right now should be going to a healthcare worker on the front lines, caring for coronavirus-infected patients. They should not be sold in stores to consumers, said 3M CEO Mike Roman in a CNBC interview Monday.

3M is the largest maker of medical face masks, specifically the N95 respirator mask.

 

Roman also said 3M is working with federal and state authorities to curb counterfeiting and price gouging of its products and devices, including the masks.

 

"We are in the process of working with large e-marketplace operators on a coordinated strategy and action plan to identify and remove counterfeiters and price gougers and to refer them to the appropriate law enforcement authorities," Roman wrote in a letter Tuesday to Attorney General William Barr.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I'd like to see stats over population. Larger countries, more cases and more deaths.

 

I see your POV, but I'd like to offer a contrary one: the real question is what is the population of the affected region? 

 

China has a population of 1.4 billion, but the epidemic most heavily affected Hubei province, which has a population of 58 million people.  81,000 cases, about 60,000 in Hubei.

Italy, the whole country is affected.  Italy has a population of 60.4 million people, so it's roughly comparable to Hubei.  80,500 cases, so a bit worse than Hubei per person.

Spain, the whole country is affected,  Spain has a population of 46.8 million people.

 

US is 329 million people, but NYC area (NYC proper, Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx) is something like 13.4 million people.  (NYS 19.4M).

So if NYS has 37,000 case and the majority are in NYC area, that would be about 1/2 the cases of Hubei or Italy, for roughly 1/5 of the people.

 

Bear in mind that for the last week, NYC has only been testing patients who are sick enough for immediate hospital admission

 

19 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I wonder if that includes companies in California buying masks and selling them on ebay and Amazon at inflated prices.

 

It absolutely should

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

I see. Kinda goes back to what I asked you Pages 1-3 (somewhere)...will we see this again every year? C’mon researchers....get that vaccine done!!!! 

 

Just a little point that with proper surveillance and testing, a number of crowded, populous Democratic countries have managed to contain this by non-pharmaceutical means, without a vaccine.

[Punching Bag]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I see your POV, but I'd like to offer a contrary one: the real question is what is the population of the affected region? 

 

 

Well the stats were not broken down by metropolitan area so population is only factor you could add to make it clearer.

 

I have been looking for map of US showing outbreaks and color coded by percentage of people.

 

If an agency made those on regular basis they could be put together in motion to watch spread.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

Yeah, not so much with those who felt self-entitled enough to hit spring break beaches or Mardis Gras. I’m a pretty low key guy, but that really pisses me off! News Flash! New Orleans just hit hard according to the Nightly News. Spring breakers will also help spread it all over the country as they go home. One kid interviewed about “his” spring break made me feel bad for his entire family. Embarrassingly stupid!

 

See, this is something that just has me shaking my head and face-palming (otherwise I'd be shaking with frustration and rage).

 

As of March 24, Florida has decided to say that anyone coming from NYS/CT/NJ must quarantine 14 days. 

It will not impose a "shelter in place" order on people already in state.

 

But, a lot of College spring breaks take place and end before March 21st, not to mention grade and secondary school spring breaks.  So there have been a lot of people pouring into Florida from that same tri-state area as well as Boston, Philly, etc - hanging on beaches, drinking in bars, eating in restaurants which were open without restrictions until 18 March.

 

It's a pretty safe bet that some of those people were infected with covid-19 and infectious and unknowingly infected Florida residents.  It's not that the people pouring in now don't matter, they do constitute new transmission chains, but there's very likely enough already in-state that it can spread even with those people quarantined, and without a shelter-in-place.

[BringBackFergy]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Just a little point that with proper surveillance and testing, a number of crowded, populous Democratic countries have managed to contain this by non-pharmaceutical means, without a vaccine.

So are you saying that Singapore, South Korea, Spain have contained the virus and don’t need a vaccine? I thought we needed a vaccine in case it becomes an annual “thing”? I’m really confused. Is the virus different in those countries that took fast steps compared to other countries like ours?

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

See, this is something that just has me shaking my head and face-palming (otherwise I'd be shaking with frustration and rage).

 

As of March 24, Florida has decided to say that anyone coming from NYS/CT/NJ must quarantine 14 days. 

It will not impose a "shelter in place" order on people already in state.

 

But, a lot of College spring breaks take place and end before March 21st, not to mention grade and secondary school spring breaks.  So there have been a lot of people pouring into Florida from that same tri-state area as well as Boston, Philly, etc - hanging on beaches, drinking in bars, eating in restaurants which were open without restrictions until 18 March.

 

It's a pretty safe bet that some of those people were infected with covid-19 and infectious and unknowingly infected Florida residents.  It's not that the people pouring in now don't matter, they do constitute new transmission chains, but there's very likely enough already in-state that it can spread even with those people quarantined, and without a shelter-in-place.

 

Yeah, but they had a few good weeks of business, so they are happy........isn’t that all that matters? 

 

Same with Mardis Gras. 

[BillsFan4]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/nyregion/nurse-dies-coronavirus-mount-sinai.html#click=https://t.co/wiFqWgo69c

 

?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

So are you saying that Singapore, South Korea, Spain have contained the virus and don’t need a vaccine? I thought we needed a vaccine in case it becomes an annual “thing”? I’m really confused. Is the virus different in those countries that took fast steps compared to other countries like ours?

 

Spain is still rocking an uncontained epidemic.  Did I say Spain?  (looks) nope.

 

Everyone wants a vaccine.  I'm just pointing out that Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong are all pretty much open for business (I think schools may be closed in Singapore) and economically motoring along, with a contained epidemic and no vaccine.  It can be done without a vaccine.  They took fast steps (contained), and now test everyone with fever, trace their contacts, and test 'em.  They are also huge on mask-wearing in public.

 

It is easier with a vaccine.  But disease can be contained without one.  We know how; we're just not doing it here (in US)

 

No, the virus is not different in those countries.  See Facts only thread to link to genomic epidemiology site.  They have sequenced viral samples (lots) from all over the world.

 

18 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/nyregion/nurse-dies-coronavirus-mount-sinai.html#click=https://t.co/wiFqWgo69c

 

?

 

Oh, Yikes.  Was not wearing PPE.  Nurses say it's because the hospital was short but....just No. 

[Cripple Creek]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2020/03/26/dr-fauci-doughnuts-selling-like-hotcakes-donuts-delite-rochester-ny/2914803001/

[BringBackFergy]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Spain is still rocking an uncontained epidemic.  Did I say Spain?  (looks) nope.

 

Everyone wants a vaccine.  I'm just pointing out that Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong are all pretty much open for business (I think schools may be closed in Singapore) and economically motoring along, with a contained epidemic and no vaccine.  It can be done without a vaccine.  They took fast steps (contained), and now test everyone with fever, trace their contacts, and test 'em.  They are also huge on mask-wearing in public.

 

It is easier with a vaccine.  But disease can be contained without one.  We know how; we're just not doing it here (in US)

 

Still confused. Don’t we need a vaccine or some kind of drug response? Why aren’t the brightest minds and multi-million dollar companies able to come up with a vaccine quicker? Aren’t they linked into the WHO and CDC? Why didn’t they start this process months ago as cutting edge scientists? Whether it’s Spain (maybe you didn’t say that) or Singapore/Hong Kong, are they all immune at this point? They did things so much better, do they not need a vaccine next year? 
 

I asked before...will this thing die and not come back, and it’s still up in the air (except for Singapore/Hong Kong/South Korea....who apparently did everything perfect.)

 

[Cripple Creek]

Atlantans showing appreciation to health care workers.

 

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Atlantans showing appreciation to health care workers.

 

 

 

That was me on the left. I was the one clapping. I hope nobody minded the clapping.....

[Cripple Creek]

Possible "good" ventilator news.

 

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/03/25/coronavirus-prisma-health-says-its-developed-way-make-one-ventilator-work-four-patients/5083304002

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Possible "good" ventilator news.

 

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/03/25/coronavirus-prisma-health-says-its-developed-way-make-one-ventilator-work-four-patients/5083304002

 

My wife’s brother works with that guy at Greenville Hospital! I saw this early today (early being a relative term, since I have no reason to get up and nowhere to go).  Hoping this really helps.

 

We need to find some out of the box fixes here! When faced with a challenge, we need to rise up and find a way. 

[BringBackFergy]

11 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Possible "good" ventilator news.

 

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/03/25/coronavirus-prisma-health-says-its-developed-way-make-one-ventilator-work-four-patients/5083304002

Thank you for some good news!!! Love it. 

[Cripple Creek]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That was me on the left. I was the one clapping. I hope nobody minded the clapping.....

I knew that had to be you.

[BringBackFergy]

2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

I knew that had to be you.

So @Augie was the one with the clap?

[Augie]

Just now, Cripple Creek said:

I knew that had to be you.

 

Yeah, that was just to piss off some of the folks here!  

 

My BIL is head of pediatrics at that hospital and still does clinic hours to keep active. Sadly, his wife is an OB/GYN no longer working because of stage 4 breast cancer spread to her bones. He’s scared to death to go to work, then go home and see his wife. It was bad enough already, but then you add something that spreads like wildfire......not good. 

[SinceThe70s]

16 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Atlantans showing appreciation to health care workers.

 

 

 

I'm blown away by the health care professionals on the front lines. 

 

Me and the fam have spent the past two weeks hunkered down at home except for a handful of trips to the stores for essentials (plus one to the liquor store). 

 

Every trip to the store comes with a level of caution/stress/fear for our own well-being. Which doesn't come close to comparing to what those on the front lines have been facing every day - for others well-being AND at the risk of their own well-being.

[Jrb1979]

https://www.iheartradio.ca/580-cfra/covid-19-updates/reality-you-re-likely-locked-down-until-summer-1.11184525?fbclid=IwAR0xF0Y7UB83bsubtbVqJ9b7ozXad-0WQvgsQGwMK2jeNajL2f-6wt9uxcc

 

Our premier figures we will be locked down til mid summer. Possibly June or July. 

[BillsFan4]

 2 days in a row. 

[BillsFan4]