Alphadawg7 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: What do you need Pittman etc. for if you're signing (don't) Green? Green is an injury liability still. You hope to get a couple good to great years with him, but also need young talent to groom still behind him and he would be a great mentor for young talented WR. There is just no way you can sign AJ Green and feel “set” at WR given his recent injury history. If he’s healthy, he’s top 10 still, but can he stay healthy and how many more top end years does he have left even if healthy are real questions. So you take that young WR to groom behind him and Brown to both contribute now and eventually take over hopefully as a starter in the next couple seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Sign one: Antonio Brown Trade one: Edmunds Draft one: Shenault I didn’t realize this was a joke thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Green is an injury liability still. You hope to get a couple good to great years with him, but also need young talent to groom still behind him and he would be a great mentor for young talented WR. There is just no way you can sign AJ Green and feel “set” at WR given his recent injury history. If he’s healthy, he’s top 10 still, but can he stay healthy and how many more top end years does he have left even if healthy are real questions. So you take that young WR to groom behind him and Brown to both contribute now and eventually take over hopefully as a starter in the next couple seasons. ^^ Green gives you a season or so to groom Aiyuk. IMO this is the ideal way to go if you are looking at a WR besides the top 3 guys. The other important topic to think about is that the decision is ticking on Allen's contract, you really need to know what you have in him very, very quickly and you can't just wait too long for a RD2 WR to develop in our offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Sign Conklin Trade for Campbell Draft Reagor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: What do you need Pittman etc. for if you're signing (don't) Green? Occasionally teams like to have more than one good player at a position. Crazy, I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Sign Conklin Trade for Campbell Draft Reagor Who's Campbell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpionZero Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Who's Campbell? Calias 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkollidas Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 Sign: Kamalei Correa- I believe he’ll be an inexpensive answer to some of the versatility Lorenzo gave us. He really came on at the end of the year. He’s younger, cheaper and I believe could give similar production as a guy like Van Noy. Draft: AJ Epenesa- I think he’ll fit really well in this scheme. Epenesa will be perfect at setting the edge and then using his power to work inside as well. I think he’d be a McDermott favorite. Trade: AJ Green- Getting Green gives Allen a chance at a legit top-10 WR if he can stay healthy. It would probably only take a 2021 3rd Rounder to the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Putting the QB on the ground? Like, say, QB knockdowns? Cool...because Clowney had more QB knockdowns in 2019 than Aaron Donald (and Yannick Ngakoue for the record). https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/defense_advanced.htm Nope. Sacks. Donald had a down year (and an interior pass rusher, btw). Ngakoue is also overrated big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: Nope. Sacks. Donald had a down year (and an interior pass rusher, btw). Ngakoue is also overrated big time. Huh. So Donald had a “down year”? He lead the NFL in TFLs, QB hurries, and was 2nd in QB pressures Down year ? This discussion is a case study for why just looking at sacks is not a great way to determine who’s a good pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Sign Conklin Trade for Campbell Draft Reagor Conklin woukd be a great get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Sign : Daryl Williams OG/RT Trade : Kenny Galloday WR Draft : Zack Baun OLB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Sign LB Jordan Jenkins Trade DE Carlos Dunlap Draft WR Denzel Mims Round 2 This option gives us a chance to draft BPA in Round 1. Edited February 18, 2020 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Huh. So Donald had a “down year”? He lead the NFL in TFLs, QB hurries, and was 2nd in QB pressures Down year ? This discussion is a case study for why just looking at sacks is not a great way to determine who’s a good pass rusher. All those stats that mean you didn't get to the QB. And regardless, Clowney isn't half the player Donald is. He's a slightly above average defensive end. He's Jerry Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Sign Jack Conklin Trade for Chandler Jones Draft Laviska Shenault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: All those stats that mean you didn't get to the QB. And regardless, Clowney isn't half the player Donald is. He's a slightly above average defensive end. He's Jerry Hughes. Bro, he's 2, maybe 3 times more disruptive than Hughes. Watch some freaking film man. Actually, you add him and he flushes 10-15 sacks for Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: Bro, he's 2, maybe 3 times more disruptive than Hughes. Watch some freaking film man. Actually, you add him and he flushes 10-15 sacks for Hughes. He had his best years with JJ Watt opposite him and without an elite guy to compliment him, his stats plummeted. That's the same story as Hughes, except Hughes actually achieved double digit sacks. I get that sacks aren't everything, but that's what we need. We need a pass rush specialist who actually gets to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 6 hours ago, MJS said: He had his best years with JJ Watt opposite him and without an elite guy to compliment him, his stats plummeted. That's the same story as Hughes, except Hughes actually achieved double digit sacks. I get that sacks aren't everything, but that's what we need. We need a pass rush specialist who actually gets to the QB. Wrong again. Clowney’s best season in terms of sacks came in 2017–Watt missed the year due to injury. Time to let this one go. You’re way off about the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 6 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Wrong again. Clowney’s best season in terms of sacks came in 2017–Watt missed the year due to injury. Time to let this one go. You’re way off about the guy. I haven't been wrong yet. Watt wasn't out the whole year. He played 5 games. And does it matter that it was his best year? His best year still didn't produce double digit sacks. Clowney isn't elite. He's a solid defensive end who will get elite money. I sure hope it isn't the Bills who give him the big contract he's about to get. Guys like Clowney and Hughes are really good if you get an elite guy across from them. Otherwise all they get is "hurries" and "pressures" which are fine, but we need a guy who actually produces, not almost produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: I haven't been wrong yet. Watt wasn't out the whole year. He played 5 games. And does it matter that it was his best year? His best year still didn't produce double digit sacks. Clowney isn't elite. He's a solid defensive end who will get elite money. I sure hope it isn't the Bills who give him the big contract he's about to get. Guys like Clowney and Hughes are really good if you get an elite guy across from them. Otherwise all they get is "hurries" and "pressures" which are fine, but we need a guy who actually produces, not almost produces. So you weren’t wrong that he only produces when Watt is playing on the other side? Got it. If you only go by the stat sheet, you’re going to miss a lot. Guess why Clowney is going to get paid? Because he’s worth it to NFL GMs. The same guys that knew Stephon Gilmore was worth it when legions of angry Bills’ fans said he wasn’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Sign: Kenyon Drake - RB Trade For: Kenny Golladay - WR Draft: Yetur Gross-Matos - DE Just now, thebandit27 said: So you weren’t wrong that he only produces when Watt is playing on the other side? Got it. If you only go by the stat sheet, you’re going to miss a lot. Guess why Clowney is going to get paid? Because he’s worth it to NFL GMs. The same guys that knew Stephon Gilmore was worth it when legions of angry Bills’ fans said he wasn’t. There are countless, COUNTLESS, examples of players getting overpaid in free agency and never living up to their contracts. If an NFL GM deems a player is worth it, that's not any indication that he is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, MJS said: Sign: Kenyon Drake - RB Trade For: Kenny Golladay - WR Draft: Yetur Gross-Matos - DE There are countless, COUNTLESS, examples of players getting overpaid in free agency and never living up to their contracts. If an NFL GM deems a player is worth it, that's not any indication that he is right. Nor did I say that it was definitive. What I am saying is that NFL GMs know that production goes beyond the stat sheet, and that’s why Clowney is going to get PAID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Nor did I say that it was definitive. What I am saying is that NFL GMs know that production goes beyond the stat sheet, and that’s why Clowney is going to get PAID. Also only why he was traded for a 3rd wants to be a UFA and will be paid accordingly. Edited February 18, 2020 by Reed83HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 19 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said: Sign : Daryl Williams OG/RT Trade : Kenny Galloday WR Draft : Zack Baun OLB I would absolutely trade for Kenny Galloday.....I would do that for a 1 in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Also only why he was traded for a 3rd wants to be a UFA and will be paid accordingly. Just remember: the GM that wanted to pay him like an elite EDGE is employed by another team’s front office... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Just remember: the GM that wanted to pay him like an elite EDGE is employed by another team’s front office... Edge has to be resolved in UFA and I want to see Beane start swinging big - this is the time to do it in UFA and the draft and not a ton of holes. An elite Edge in UFA upgrades the entire defense IMO and it won't screw with the cap at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Edge has to be resolved in UFA and I want to see Beane start swinging big - this is the time to do it in UFA and the draft and not a ton of holes. An elite Edge in UFA upgrades the entire defense IMO and it won't screw with the cap at all. Indeed. I still think that Addison would be in play as well—arguably the most consistent pass rusher of the last 4 seasons among the FAs. Plus they’ve got familiarity with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Edge has to be resolved in UFA and I want to see Beane start swinging big - this is the time to do it in UFA and the draft and not a ton of holes. An elite Edge in UFA upgrades the entire defense IMO and it won't screw with the cap at all. Clowney isn't that guy, to me. The elite ones are rarely available in free agency. Have to find them in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Sign: Conklin Trade: Odell Beckham Draft: Chiasson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, MJS said: Clowney isn't that guy, to me. The elite ones are rarely available in free agency. Have to find them in the draft. Clowney, Yannick, Armstead, Judon (or Calais if released) will work for me and upgrade Shaq. At the very least you can resign Shaq and it doesn't change that position or the D overall at all. Any of these 5 will make it better immediately. Sacks are an iffy stat to look at, but QB pressures are just as important and usually lead to a sack, int or missed played. A player can clean up with mess or luck into a sack, much harder to luck into QB pressures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 55 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Clowney, Yannick, Armstead, Judon (or Calais if released) will work for me and upgrade Shaq. At the very least you can resign Shaq and it doesn't change that position or the D overall at all. Any of these 5 will make it better immediately. Sacks are an iffy stat to look at, but QB pressures are just as important and usually lead to a sack, int or missed played. A player can clean up with mess or luck into a sack, much harder to luck into QB pressures I think that Clowney and Ngakoue will get overpaid. Judon and Armstead seem to be trending up. I'd be happy with either. Calais Campbell is 33. Not sure if it makes sense to bring him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, MJS said: I think that Clowney and Ngakoue will get overpaid. Judon and Armstead seem to be trending up. I'd be happy with either. Calais Campbell is 33. Not sure if it makes sense to bring him in. Wait, you don’t want to pay Clowney because he doesn’t produce unless he’s alongside JJ Watt, but you think Armstead is “trending up” because he finally had a good season sack-wise, in a contract year, playing alongside Ford, Bosa, and Buckner??? What. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Fans continue to be afraid of salary cap hell. It's comical. Well there’s that too, but I’m more mystified by the inconsistency of thought. No Clowney because bad sack numbers unless JJ plays (which isn’t even true) but happy with Armstead despite low sack numbers unless he’s surrounded by 4 other 1st round picks on the DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I think Clowney is the best EDGE option on the market. He’s consistently in the backfield and great against the run. He’s a guy that’s schemed for. With that being said, he’s going to be the highest paid of all of these guys. He’s looking to set the market for the position. If he doesn’t set it, he will be close. That’s why I went with the “trade for Campbell” option. He’s still a really good player and on a decent contract. He only has a year remaining but if you could add 2 years as a part of the trade you’d be in good shape. Cut Murphy, bring back Shaq and you’ve really improved the position. Maybe take a flier in the mid to late rounds on a developmental guy like you did with Johnson last year. I’m not a huge fan of the 2nd tier guys like Epenesa and Gross-Matos at this point. I don’t really love a lot of the “next guys” in FA either. I wouldn’t mind Addison. I don’t really trust Quinn or Fowler. I wouldn’t hate Dupree but who is he? The guy from last year or the guy from his first few years? Edge needs to be addressed but I’m not sure that the Bills can properly address it without paying Clowney or making a trade. I think that they are settling for a lesser player otherwise. I’d just assume Shaq and Anae (or someone like that in the 2nd) over Quinn (or someone like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Indeed. I still think that Addison would be in play as well—arguably the most consistent pass rusher of the last 4 seasons among the FAs. Plus they’ve got familiarity with him. I'd love Addison along with an OLB like Jordan Jenkins if we lose Shaq/Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Wait, you don’t want to pay Clowney because he doesn’t produce unless he’s alongside JJ Watt, but you think Armstead is “trending up” because he finally had a good season sack-wise, in a contract year, playing alongside Ford, Bosa, and Buckner??? What. No, because Armstead won't get paid elite money for being an above average player. His contract will be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: No, because Armstead won't get paid elite money for being an above average player. His contract will be reasonable. He’s not above average. He’s a barely average player that had one anomalous year because he played with 4 other first round picks. And I would love to know (a) what “reasonable” money is for a 25 year old pass rusher, and (b) why Buffalo needs to settle for paying “reasonable” money to an “above average” player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: He’s not above average. He’s a barely average player that had one anomalous year because he played with 4 other first round picks. And I would love to know (a) what “reasonable” money is for a 25 year old pass rusher, and (b) why Buffalo needs to settle for paying “reasonable” money to an “above average” player. No, Clowney is the "above average player" I was referring to. I'd rather pay average money for an average edge rusher than elite money for an above average edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, MJS said: No, Clowney is the "above average player" I was referring to. I'd rather pay average money for an average edge rusher than elite money for an above average edge rusher. What do you consider “average” money? And why should Buffalo settle for an average player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: What do you consider “average” money? And why should Buffalo settle for an average player? The Bills shouldn't settle for an average player. They should draft an edge rusher high as well. Armstead is not my first choice. I simply was replying to a comment about him and a bunch of other players. You chose to fixate on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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