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Tag for Phillips?

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7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What?

 

Teams overpay free agents or impending free agents all the time. We paid Morse a ton, is Dawkins going to hold out? We paid John Brown quite a bit, is Isaiah McKenzie demanding “that too?”

 

That’s an argument that is not supported at all in the modern NFL.


To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

 

Sounds like we gotta just disagree

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:


He’s from Mississippi?

 

Ah, he was born in Houston but went to Miss St. The article I saw read like he "was a draft pick from Houston".

45 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


I mean, I think he’s just saying get a $5m guy and a $10m pass catcher 

 

or even a $5m guy, a $5m back, and a $5m upgrade elsewhere 

 

And just sit on the other $70M in cap? Nah, go get $10M guys (who are worth it) and add some real talent to the team.

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13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:


To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

 

Sounds like we gotta just disagree

What defensive tackle is eligible for extension? Star just took a pay cut, and Phillips and Oliver are on rookie deals. None of those 3 had as many sacks as JP did last year. He arguably outperformed all of them. And Harrison Phillips coming off an ACL tear is gonna say “uhhh” if Jordan gets paid?

 

It’s just one of those things that sounds plausible but does not hold up past a cursory examination.

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On 2/14/2020 at 12:41 PM, letsgoteam said:

Plus keep in mind that there is no cap roll over for next year. (Right? Because of the CBA ending)

 

If that is the case, spend away (in a constructive, conscience manner). Leave no dollar unspent.


Once a new CBA is agreed to there will be rollover to 2021.  No way does an agreement happen without that.  

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8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah, he was born in Houston but went to Miss St. The article I saw read like he "was a draft pick from Houston".

 

And just sit on the other $70M in cap? Nah, go get $10M guys (who are worth it) and add some real talent to the team.


I hope I’m clear in wanting to spend every penny and then a few on top. Just think we could terribly overspend on a comparable DT and still come out cheaper and able to add more elsewhere. Tagging Phillips wouldn’t terribly upset me but I think we could do better

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12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


I hope I’m clear in wanting to spend every penny and then a few on top. Just think we could terribly overspend on a comparable DT and still come out cheaper and able to add more elsewhere. Tagging Phillips wouldn’t terribly upset me but I think we could do better

 

 

...probably dead wrong, but I don't see McBeane spending money like a drunken sailor for the sake of "spending it all"......he's honed his skills as a value shopper IMO, structuring deals that don't end up in cap hell.....he'll also focus on extending his own that are worthy IMO.....

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1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...probably dead wrong, but I don't see McBeane spending money like a drunken sailor for the sake of "spending it all"......he's honed his skills as a value shopper IMO, structuring deals that don't end up in cap hell.....he'll also focus on extending his own that are worthy IMO.....


I suspect he will spend more than many think but less than he could. 
 

And he could spend it all without cap hell.

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5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


I suspect he will spend more than many think but less than he could. 
 

And he could spend it all without cap hell.

 

...pretty fair assessment.......could see the "deal categories" as follows:

 

A. Cheap SOB and a lowball offer.

B. Sounds like a fair and reasonable offer.

C. WTF? Are you kidding me? Broke the bank for HIM?

 

....stay tuned............

 

 

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5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

What defensive tackle is eligible for extension? Star just took a pay cut, and Phillips and Oliver are on rookie deals. None of those 3 had as many sacks as JP did last year. He arguably outperformed all of them. And Harrison Phillips coming off an ACL tear is gonna say “uhhh” if Jordan gets paid?

 

It’s just one of those things that sounds plausible but does not hold up past a cursory examination.

 

Well, we already established that we're just going to disagree, but I'd like to note that I did not mention the rookie deal guys or Harrison Phillips. 

 

My analogy was "To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

The analogy is not exact, but both McKenzie and Phillips are free agents.  McKenzie has been a valued contributor with sweeps and slants, but he's far from a polished complete receiver.  If McKenzie were to be franchised, or even paid around the same as Brown (who is like the 28th paid WR for AAV currently) I would think Brown be "uhhhhh....."

 

Sacks are only a part of the expectations of a DT in McDermott and Frazier's defense.  Phillips has been a valued contributor for his penetrating pass D but has not always maintained gap integrity against the rush.  I'm sure the guy playing next to him knows that.  If Phillips gets franchised and paid like a top 5 DT, the guy who just took a paycut could well be like "uhhhhh...." 

 

Making a guy an offer that's well above his value to the team is probably not a good long-term overall strategy, just because it's a cap-flush year.

 

Jordan Phillips is a fine player and I like him.  I have faith in Beane on defense.  I believe he will make a fair offer appropriate for Phillips value in McD's scheme and where they see him as a player.  I think he will also pursue players he thinks are potential upgrades for similar or slightly more money.  I don't think he will be looking at sack numbers to determine that, but I think he recognizes that other teams may well be looking more heavily at sack numbers and may make Phillips a sweeter offer than he's prepared to extend.

 

 

 

 

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Phillips will probably find his value around the league is a lot lower than he thinks.  At that point, he may opt for a 1-year "prove it again" type contract that might be affordable and another good rotational bridge with Oliver...

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Phillips will probably find his value around the league is a lot lower than he thinks.  At that point, he may opt for a 1-year "prove it again" type contract that might be affordable and another good rotational bridge with Oliver...

 

My guess is that there will be a team who is excited by his sack totals and which runs a different scheme with different LB skills where perhaps what he doesn't do, doesn't matter. (or who doesn't scout thoroughly) and will offer him $$$$

 

I hope you're correct

 

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, we already established that we're just going to disagree, but I'd like to note that I did not mention the rookie deal guys or Harrison Phillips. 

 

My analogy was "To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

The analogy is not exact, but both McKenzie and Phillips are free agents.  McKenzie has been a valued contributor with sweeps and slants, but he's far from a polished complete receiver.  If McKenzie were to be franchised, or even paid around the same as Brown (who is like the 28th paid WR for AAV currently) I would think Brown be "uhhhhh....."

 

Sacks are only a part of the expectations of a DT in McDermott and Frazier's defense.  Phillips has been a valued contributor for his penetrating pass D but has not always maintained gap integrity against the rush.  I'm sure the guy playing next to him knows that.  If Phillips gets franchised and paid like a top 5 DT, the guy who just took a paycut could well be like "uhhhhh...." 

 

Making a guy an offer that's well above his value to the team is probably not a good long-term overall strategy, just because it's a cap-flush year.

 

Jordan Phillips is a fine player and I like him.  I have faith in Beane on defense.  I believe he will make a fair offer appropriate for Phillips value in McD's scheme and where they see him as a player.  I think he will also pursue players he thinks are potential upgrades for similar or slightly more money.  I don't think he will be looking at sack numbers to determine that, but I think he recognizes that other teams may well be looking more heavily at sack numbers and may make Phillips a sweeter offer than he's prepared to extend.

 

 

 

 

Okay, let's forget the analogies, because I'm not sure we'll find a perfect one,

 

Sacks are only a part of the expectations of a DT in McDermott and Frazier's defense.  Phillips has been a valued contributor for his penetrating pass D but has not always maintained gap integrity against the rush.  I'm sure the guy playing next to him knows that.  If Phillips gets franchised and paid like a top 5 DT, the guy who just took a paycut could well be like "uhhhhh...." 

 

I don't think this is how the psychology of an NFL locker room works.  By this same token, shouldn't Phillips have been going, "uhhhh" on his peanuts one year deal, while racking up sacks, because Star wasn't living up to his bloated contract? Gap integrity is well and good, but Star wasn't exactly lighting the field on fire this season.

 

These guys are professionals. They know contracts are dictated by leverage and a million other factors.  I doubt Phillips was counting Star's money to the point of being a detriment to the team.  And Star just willingly took a paycut in a year where we have $80M in cap space.  Do you really think the Beane pitch was, "we need you to be a team player and take a marginal paycut because we need the extra cap space this season?"  No chance.  I don't think the guy who took a paycut because he kinda sucked is in any position to make noise when another DT (who made NOTHING in the last two years) gets his payday.  Furthermore, if we have a culture where everyone is counting each other's checks, we have bigger problems.

 

Making a guy an offer that's well above his value to the team is probably not a good long-term overall strategy, just because it's a cap-flush year.

 

Guys get paid above value every year in the NFL.  That's how free agency works.  No one is saying, "franchise tag every middling UFA every year."  It's this season.

 

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Phillips will probably find his value around the league is a lot lower than he thinks.  At that point, he may opt for a 1-year "prove it again" type contract that might be affordable and another good rotational bridge with Oliver...

Phillips did his prove it deal last season. I doubt he settles again when his value may never be higher. He will have a nice market in FA.

Edited by BringBackOrton

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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My guess is that there will be a team who is excited by his sack totals and which runs a different scheme with different LB skills where perhaps what he doesn't do, doesn't matter. (or who doesn't scout thoroughly)

 

Well, if they do, you're right--they probably didn't watch any video.    Many of those sacks were 'clean ups' that fell right into Phillips arms...

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Well, if they do, you're right--they probably didn't watch any video.    Many of those sacks were 'clean ups' that fell right into Phillips arms...

 

The most annoying sack to me was Phillips sack of Ryan Fitzpatrick near or in the red zone.  It was a strip sack.  The ball came out.  Phillips was so unaware that he just sat there with his leg on the ball....then got up and started celebrating whilst Fitzy, ever situationally "on it", scooped the ball back up. 

 

Fortunately Tre' White had a brilliant pick on the next play but it was most annoying that it got to the next play plus, we would have had better field position for the O

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15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The most annoying sack to me was Phillips sack of Ryan Fitzpatrick near or in the red zone.  It was a strip sack.  The ball came out.  Phillips was so unaware that he just sat there with his leg on the ball....then got up and started celebrating whilst Fitzy, ever situationally "on it", scooped the ball back up. 

 

Fortunately Tre' White had a brilliant pick on the next play but it was most annoying that it got to the next play plus, we would have had better field position for the O

Thank you for mentioning that

 

That really pissed me off ... Zero awareness on the play

 

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Phillips will probably find his value around the league is a lot lower than he thinks.  At that point, he may opt for a 1-year "prove it again" type contract that might be affordable and another good rotational bridge with Oliver...

Or one will make a mistake.  You just have to wait and see.  Nothing wrong with “We’d love to have you back, but we know this is a business.  Check around and see what is out there for you and please talk to us once you have.”

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