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Buzzergate update (Again) Update: Beltran, Cora, Hinch & Luhnow (fired) for illegale sign stealing - compare to NFL & The Patsies

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56 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Look you definitely know your history here but you’re wrong on nobody pushing for it. They wanted to implement drug testing after the Pittsburgh Drug Trials in 1985. That’s an absolute fact. Seeing that it’s collectively bargained the players said no, we’re not giving that up, the league can’t just stuff it into the CBA and move on. That would cause a strike. The biggest issue for baseball were  the numerous work stoppages, so maybe folks didn’t push as hard on a tough subject like that because it would’ve led to another work stoppage but the comment that nobody pushed for it is laughably wrong. 

 

I took a class that Bud Selig taught... I’ve heard stories about the inner workings of those negotiations. There was a push for drug testing but players wouldn’t budge on it. You can’t just rip up the CBA my friend... that causes issues. 

 

 

It took 14 years from the initial "ban" in 1990.

 

Bud Selig was another Commissioner happy to kick that can down the road because steroids saved MLB.  The public came back when those HRs started to stack up year after year.

 

It was in the best interest of no one (players, owners, union) to bring that down at that time.  Finally, when BALCO made it completely shameless for everyone, things changed---and with ease.  It didn't happen because no one wanted it to happen.  This was the ultimate stain on Selig's tenure.  If he was telling his class that he he was pushing to clean up baseball, he was BS'ing you and blaming it on the help.

Edited by Mr. WEO
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6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Who would hire these guys? They are permanently tainted, no owner in their right mind will hire these guys, their careers are over in MLB. 

At least one would think as much.

I believe in second chances if they show contrition.

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Just now, cba fan said:

I believe in second chances if they show contrition.

Lunhow’s already doubling down. His statement was such a joke. He deflected blame on “players, coaches and lower level staff.” That’s the sign of a real strong leader.
 

He’s always been a pompous jerk and now it’s catching up with him. He was cold and cut throat, treated people like objects, particularly scouts. He just tried to do the same here to save his name. It’s all catching up to him... now he no longer has power and success to mask those horrible people skills. 
 

I don’t think he gets a second chance, nor does he deserve one. 

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MLB does a lot of things better. Their HOF/Cooperstown is better than NFL because they only let the greats in. The NFL seems to let everyone into their HOF

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I think the biggest difference between the two major sports is that Baseball has worked really hard over the years to maintain the integrity of the game. They haven't always been successful but they at least made the attempt. The NFL has barely made an attempt to acknowledge the problems within the league, let alone fix them. IMO baseball seems to still be about the game, where as the NFL is about business and entertainment and less about the integrity of the game.

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12 minutes ago, DRA3196 said:

I think the biggest difference between the two major sports is that Baseball has worked really hard over the years to maintain the integrity of the game. They haven't always been successful but they at least made the attempt. The NFL has barely made an attempt to acknowledge the problems within the league, let alone fix them. IMO baseball seems to still be about the game, where as the NFL is about business and entertainment and less about the integrity of the game.

There were different types of cheating going on and the sports were also treated differently in the press.  

 

The NFL painted itself into a corner by allowing the Patriots to cheat.  Once they let Spygate go with a wrist slap, they had to keep doubling down on their "greatness".  It was a cash cow for the big networks so lips were zipped on the Pats, steroids and the Ray Rice type stuff.  Just look at Tyreek Hill this year.  The networks say nothing.  It's disgusting.  

 

MLB has been reputed to be "dead" for decades.  The steroids were just one more nail in the coffin.  The TV money wasn't the same for the big networks because of the scheduling structure and the more local nature of broadcasts.  This, and the commies trying to promote soccer, made fertile ground for baseball bashing.

 

Good for MLB for treating the Astros like the Pats should have been treated.  And the Pats are still cheating because they understand the lay of the land.  Maybe all sports are gradually headed toward the Vince McMahon model. 

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1 hour ago, major said:

MLB does a lot of things better. Their HOF/Cooperstown is better than NFL because they only let the greats in. The NFL seems to let everyone into their HOF

 

Yes sir, like Harold Baines. The consummate MLB player who did zilch to distinguish himself except play for a quarter of a century. Yet still failed to reach 3k hits or reach any other stat of any landmark value for that matter. 

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Took a page out of the Bill Belichick's guide "How to cheat for dummies". They will forever be known as the Houston Asterisks. 

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8 hours ago, cba fan said:

I believe in second chances if they show contrition.

If I’m MLB, no way in hell do these guys come back into the game, people who cheat always cheat, it’s a major character flaw with those sorts. I’m certain they can learn to say, “do you want fries with that”..

 

look at Kraft and Co. they are continuous cheaters, cheaters gonna cheat, always kick them to the curb when opportunity presents itself, otherwise you condone the act and the taint. The world needs ditch diggers too...

Edited by Don Otreply

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15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Red Sox are next.🤣

 

Cora should get a double dose.


Bah-ston... City of Cheats!

 

Wouldn’t be surprised, if Cora got some tips from Billy B for this caper!

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15 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

To be fair, the Astros aren't really the MLB cash cow and premier team like the Pats. Now if this was the Yankees accused of this, I'm sure it would have been swept under the rug just like the Pats and the NFL.

 

I'm not surprised they were fired for this, but we're they the ones fully responsible? Did the owner know what was going on and encouraged it or just turn a blind eye to it? Also weren't the Astros just in trouble recently for providing or forging false medical records for players in trades? They also recently fired one of their other front office guys this offseason after comments he made to female reporters in the locker room  who were known to be against the team getting the former Jays closer who was suspended for beating his girlfriend/wife

Manfred had too much integrity.   The Yankees would receive the same punishment.  Steinbrenner wad banned for a year two different times.  It wasn't Manfred, but it was MLB.

 

Your cynicism is showing.

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15 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

All im saying is - the astro's had and continue to have a lethal lineup.  Breg, Altuve, Correa, Springer - its hard to believe that this props them up like massive amounts.  I don't feel like digging through all their splits to see if home/away over the years is that big of a discrepancy.  Maybe i will before fantasy baseball season to see if its worth knocking them down a peg, but i doubt it.  

 

 

Check out the stats from the 2017 ALCS when they played the yankees.  The difference in stats are eye popping at home compared to at Yankee Stadium.  If I am a Yankee fan, I feel very cheated as they were the best team in baseball that year & got cheated out of another WS.  

14 hours ago, cgg716 said:

The contention is simple, I don’t condone it. I’m mearly stating they allowed it, all teams have stolen signs, since forever, and MLB has basically said, hey Houston, you were really good at this thing we allowed, pay for it. Did the same with steroids 

 

Your missing the point.  Yeah teams steal signs, it is a part of baseball, Houston & Boston stole signs using technology.  

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7 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

 

Yes sir, like Harold Baines. The consummate MLB player who did zilch to distinguish himself except play for a quarter of a century. Yet still failed to reach 3k hits or reach any other stat of any landmark value for that matter. 

 

 

I get your point with Harold Reynolds but Baseball HOF is a bit better because there is no requirement that a certain amount need to go in every year like Football.  Some years there are only 1 or 2 inductions.  Football isn't there 5 or 6 minimum every year?  That compromises the process right there.  

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16 hours ago, KD in CA said:

WOW!

 

 

p.s.  can the Mets please hire these guys for 2021?

They will go to the Red Sox where they can get away with this kind of stuff and keep their jobs. 

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37 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Check out the stats from the 2017 ALCS when they played the yankees.  The difference in stats are eye popping at home compared to at Yankee Stadium.  If I am a Yankee fan, I feel very cheated as they were the best team in baseball that year & got cheated out of another WS.  

 

Your missing the point.  Yeah teams steal signs, it is a part of baseball, Houston & Boston stole signs using technology.  

 

Yankees best team in 2017? They won 91 games got in as a wildcard and pitched sabathia in a game 7. I think the dodgers got cheated more than the yankees

8 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

 

Yes sir, like Harold Baines. The consummate MLB player who did zilch to distinguish himself except play for a quarter of a century. Yet still failed to reach 3k hits or reach any other stat of any landmark value for that matter. 

 

That is a curious one. 6x all star. Good postseason stats in limited games. 1 silver slugger. Was just never really the best, always pretty good. I probably wouldn't vote him in.

 

NFL has joe namath tho, who has like offensively bad stats for the majority of his career.

Edited by dneveu

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9 hours ago, cba fan said:

I believe in second chances if they show contrition.

I heard on MLB Channel that Hinch was planning to go on an "apology" tour this off season. This may help him find a gig in 2021. Now if we could find out how pitchers who go to Houston all of a sudden develop incredible spin rates. There are some who question the tactics, whether  it's pine tar or some other substance.

29 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

They will go to the Red Sox where they can get away with this kind of stuff and keep their jobs. 

I don't know about that. Looks like Alex Cora might be next in line for punishment.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/13/red-soxs-alex-cora-is-going-to-get-crushed-after-astros-cheating-scandal/

 

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9 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

 

Yes sir, like Harold Baines. The consummate MLB player who did zilch to distinguish himself except play for a quarter of a century. Yet still failed to reach 3k hits or reach any other stat of any landmark value for that matter. 

You got me on that one. Still confused how Harold got in🤔

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2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

I get your point with Harold Reynolds but Baseball HOF is a bit better because there is no requirement that a certain amount need to go in every year like Football.  Some years there are only 1 or 2 inductions.  Football isn't there 5 or 6 minimum every year?  That compromises the process right there.  

Baines is a stain on the HOF in my opinion, there are a lot of good players who aren't in and for the most part everyone gets it; this starts the banging of the drum for some of those other guys, naturally....

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1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Yankees best team in 2017? They won 91 games got in as a wildcard and pitched sabathia in a game 7. I think the dodgers got cheated more than the yankees

 

That is a curious one. 6x all star. Good postseason stats in limited games. 1 silver slugger. Was just never really the best, always pretty good. I probably wouldn't vote him in.

 

NFL has joe namath tho, who has like offensively bad stats for the majority of his career.

 

 

So what?   The Dodgers are paper champions, they have never been able to close the deal with this current roster even though they have had the best record in baseball over that span.  Kershaw is the poster boy for this.  Great regular season pitcher, horrible post season pitcher.  Yankees would of beat them in the WS.  & believe me I am no Yankees fan, been a die hard mets fan for the past 40 years.  

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2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

They will go to the Red Sox where they can get away with this kind of stuff and keep their jobs. 

All signs are pointing to Cora being fired before Friday since they ALL threw him under the bus as the mastermind of it all.. seeing as how he brought it with him to the Sox, it’s hard to deny that assertion.

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18 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

That's pretty damning evidence, especially in light of the ALCS home/away outcomes.  There has to be an asterisk next to the two WS wins.   The right thing to do is strip them of the titles.

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Just now, GG said:

 

That's pretty damning evidence, especially in light of the ALCS home/away outcomes.  There has to be an asterisk next to the two WS wins.   The right thing to do is strip them of the titles.

 

I don't think so - it just prolongs it.  Nobody stripped anyone of anything after all the steroid/HGH allegations.

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4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's pretty damning evidence, especially in light of the ALCS home/away outcomes.  There has to be an asterisk next to the two WS wins.   The right thing to do is strip them of the titles.

It's awful

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I don't think so - it just prolongs it.  Nobody stripped anyone of anything after all the steroid/HGH allegations.

Even with steroids and HGH you still have to play the game. A hitter knowing if it is a fastball or offspeed before it is even thrown is an enormous advantage.

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Well here is some new news....

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

 

Multiple ownership-level sources told ESPN that dissatisfaction with the penalties had emerged following a conference call with Manfred, in which he explained how the Astros would be disciplined, then told teams to keep their thoughts to themselves.

 

"The impression," one person familiar with the call told ESPN, "was that the penalty for complaining would be more than Houston got."

 

"All clubs have been asked by Major League Baseball not to comment on today's punishment of the Houston Astros as it's inappropriate to comment on discipline imposed on another club. The Dodgers have also been asked not to comment on any wrongdoing during the 2017 World Series and will have no further comment at this time."

 

"Crane won," he said. "The entire thing was programmed to protect the future of the franchise. He got his championship. He keeps his team. His fine is nothing. The sport lost, but Crane won."

 

. Crane said he saw details of the league's punishment over the weekend. It allowed him to introduce himself as a do-something organizational shepherd. He announced the firings of Luhnow and Hinch on live TV, generating maximum effect.

 

"It will scare employees of MLB teams from cheating, at least for a while," one high-ranking executive said, "and the man who owns the team gets to enjoy his ring. He gets off lightly and can start with a clean slate."

 

This refrain was common inside the game, and it came with a question that was rhetorical-but-not-really, one that illustrated how Jim Crane won the day that his franchise lost. How many owners in baseball would trade $5 million, four high draft picks and the firing of their GM and manager in exchange for a World Series title?

Twenty-five? Twenty-eight? All 30? "I don't know that I would," one team president said, "but I don't know that I wouldn't."

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