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Good Twitter Thread Breaking Down Allen vs. Houston

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25 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

He didn't post video of the tooth fairy. That was actual NFL footage from the actual game. What is there not to "believe".  We all know his "good plays" but we scored 19 points (average like 17 a game) in a world where everyone else scores 24. It's not complicated.  This guy doesn't owe you balance, his opinion doesn't matter but he took the time to break down his bad plays. They are part of the story. Who cares if some random twitter guy "likes" Allen.  

11 of the 32 teams scored 24 or more this season. That’s no where near everyone else. That said, it would be nice to have been one of those 11. 

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27 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I get that it’s a missed opportunity, but tap the brakes on McKenzie a bit. That guy gets caught by the turf monster more than any other Bill, I think. He’s fallen down on his own countless times this season, so it may have been just a nice gainer once he bit the dust.  

 

Actually Frank "Skates" Gore wins that award this year.  Yes, I suppose McK might have fallen down during his 70 yard nearly-untouched sprint toward the end zone... I mean, it was basically set up as a punt return with one guy to beat... but sure, he might've fallen down.  

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

He didn't post video of the tooth fairy. That was actual NFL footage from the actual game. What is there not to "believe".  We all know his "good plays" but we scored 19 points (average like 17 a game) in a world where everyone else scores 24. It's not complicated.  This guy doesn't owe you balance, his opinion doesn't matter but he took the time to break down his bad plays. They are part of the story. Who cares if some random twitter guy "likes" Allen.  

 

 

 

 

This feels 100% right.  All of it

 

No QB is perfect, and Allen, as a second year QB in his first playoff game was far from it, but if points are what you're basing this off of.... he made enough plays to get us into the mid-twenties. 

 

John Brown doesn't help his QB out on a route that should've been toe-tapped into a 1st and Goal..  Should it have been thrown earlier, sure.. but why do our WR's never seem to help our QB out?  It's because we need more, and better, playmakers.

 

Josh Allen throws a laser to Duke in the end zone prior to half.   Duke doesn't make the play.   You know who does?  Hopkins and Fuller.  They do it all the time for Watson, and we praise Watson for those throws. 

 

There ya go... there's 14 points potentially that we lost out on due to having wildly mediocre talent at the WR position. 

 

Nevermind the game winning 3-7 points we have if Dawson Knox simply lays a finger on Cunningham as our ultra-athletic QB is getting to the edge in OT. 

 

Josh left his fair share of points on the field as well, but every QB does.  ...and maybe Josh is leaving more than most QB's we compare him to, and that's on him to get better, but our second year QB and rookie RB were the only two guys who jumped off the screen as playmakers in a playoff game.  That's a problem.

 

 

Edited by SCBills
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1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Thread OP: Here is the video evidence that the scheme had guys wide open and offense set up for success. 

 

Mr. WEO: Screw that, EYE BALLLLLLL TESSSSST!!!!! (Imagine Leroy Jenkins voice) 

 

 

How about you don't ask your QB in his first playoff game who already had some high risk throws to attempt 46 passes?  And your stud RB only 13 carries?

 

Come on---this wasn't even a trick question! 

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2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Actually Frank "Skates" Gore wins that award this year.  Yes, I suppose McK might have fallen down during his 70 yard nearly-untouched sprint toward the end zone... I mean, it was basically set up as a punt return with one guy to beat... but sure, he might've fallen down.  

Not sure about Gore, as a defender usually makes contact quickly. McKenzie has hit the turf untouched at least half a dozen times that I can recall this season, so I’d venture that he’s the team leader in that department. Not sure if it’s just terrible balance, cleat issue or what. 

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Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

How about you don't ask your QB in his first playoff game who already had some high risk throws to attempt 46 passes?  And your stud RB only 13 carries?

 

Come on---this wasn't even a trick question! 

 

Oh...Mr. WEO doesn't understand basic NFL offense - every play has a check/audible. Woof. 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Oh...Mr. WEO doesn't understand basic NFL offense - every play has a check/audible. Woof. 

 

So you are saying that Daboll called a completely different game and Josh simply audibled to the tune of 46 pass plays and 21 RB carries?

 

You're flailing now.

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1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So you are saying that Daboll called a completely different game and Josh simply audibled to the tune of 46 pass plays and 21 RB carries?

 

You're flailing now.

 

I'm flailing? You think NFL offense is as simple as Run v. Pass play selection. Like I said, woof. 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I'm flailing? You think NFL offense is as simple as Run v. Pass play selection. Like I said, woof. 

 

 

How many plays do you think went is as run plays and were audibled into pass plays?

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I dont know what I'm thinking stepping into the middle of a WEO/JAHBH pissing match, but...

 

Run the ball, Daboll. Run the ball.

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Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

How many plays do you think went is as run plays and were audibled into pass plays?

 

I don't know. You know why? I'm smart enough to understand how complex each play call is, with all the different checks and audibles, and not so arrogant to think that I can define it by boiling it down to, "he called x-run plays and y-pass plays." I expect that from my friends who have never played football, turn it on Sunday afternoon, and then don't think about it for the rest of the weak.  Be better. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is particularly the case with Allen because there are some fans who will just put the blame anywhere else. But it is a theme of Bills fans for years. Always blame the offensive coordinator for not getting more out of sub standard offensive talent. 

 

Yep, it's Zay Jone's fault, it's the OL's fault, it's Foster's fault, it's Daboll's fault. Not saying that these players/coaches don't share some of the blame but a lot of the offense's struggles can be pinned on the QB running the show. Not all of it, but quite a bit.

 

Allen improved greatly this year, he's not there yet. We need to see another jump next year. If we do and we get a little more help around him the team can contend for the AFC.

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Doesn't the narrative change if Duke Williams holds on to his two as well?   You can't play what if and only discuss one side.   

 

Those two throws by Josh were not good though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. It isn't even that Daboll doesn't deserve any criticism. He does. It is just that you read this board and every offensive play that doesn't work is Brian Daboll's fault.

 

It is particularly the case with Allen because there are some fans who will just put the blame anywhere else. But it is a theme of Bills fans for years. Always blame the offensive coordinator for not getting more out of sub standard offensive talent. 

 

2. You know when we had a decent offense? 2015 and 2016.... when we had two offensive linemen go to the pro bowl, Lesean McCoy still close to his prime, a decent tight end in Charles Clay (before his knee became positively arthritic) and talent at receiver - Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Harvin and Goodwin. Yes we had Greg Roman who was and is a very good offensive coordinator but we know those other guys are good because with the exception of Wood, who never played anywhere else, they all have solid NFL production in other spots before Buffalo, after Buffalo or both. 

 

3. But firing Daboll is not the answer to improving our offense. Josh getting better and the Bills improving the talent around him is. 

 

I trimmed your post and itemized it for clarity. I agree with 1 & 2, but 3 is where we differ. Obviously we need better talent on offense but a lot of the problems IMO are fit related. Do you believe Allen is right type of QB for Daboll's system, one which requires a pocket passer to read the defense based on coverage concepts and be on the same page/timing as the reads from his receivers? 

 

You mention Greg Roman. How much better would Josh look with a top running game to play behind and protect him? How much better would that type of offense fit with the type of conservative game McD likes to play?

 

I don't think Daboll is doing a bad job. You're right, he takes way too much undeserved criticism on this board given there are weeks (or even random portions of games) where Josh just loses it, and Daboll has to call the game with one arm tied behind his back. Sometimes the fit between player and coach just isn't clean enough. We need to find an OC who better fits our QB.     

 

  

Edited by VW82
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4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I don't know. You know why? I'm smart enough to understand how complex each play call is, with all the different checks and audibles, and not so arrogant to think that I can define it by boiling it down to, "he called x-run plays and y-pass plays." I expect that from my friends who have never played football, turn it on Sunday afternoon, and then don't think about it for the rest of the weak.  Be better. 

 

 

From the time they were up 16-0 (almost halfway through the 3rd Q) until they were behind 19-16, the Bills dropped back 7 times and ran it twice.

 

After it got to 16-8, the Bills dropped back 5 times, with the final being a strips sack fumble.  with one penalty, it was 4 plays and only 2:22 minutes off the clock. 

 

After it was 16-11 (now the 4th Q), they ran 3 pass plays, went 3 and out and used 1:26 off the clock.  Is that how you would run protect a lead late in the game? 

 

Just so we are clear, you are saying for those drives, that you believe it is very likely that Daboll called plays other than 7 dropbacks and that Josh kept checking out of them?

 

There's no way that is true.  It was disastrous--why would Daboll let it continue?

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I dont know what I'm thinking stepping into the middle of a WEO/JAHBH pissing match, but...

 

Run the ball, Daboll. Run the ball.

 

 

Well Daboll was TRYING to run the ball, but, you know---it's difficult some times with your young QB "audiblling out" of run plays over and over....

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11 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

Doesn't the narrative change if Duke Williams holds on to his two as well?   You can't play what if and only discuss one side.   

 

Those two throws by Josh were not good though.


The throw to Williams and to  Smoke on the sideline were perfect.

 

Both receivers failed their QB in the clutch.

 

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't even that Daboll doesn't deserve any criticism. He does. It is just that you read this board and every offensive play that doesn't work is Brian Daboll's fault.

 

Josh Allen makes a wrong read? Daboll's fault. 

Receiver drops a catchable ball? Daboll's fault. 

Three blockers fail to execute basic block in a game on the line position? Daboll's fault. 

Josh Allen checks into a run with 30 seconds left and 1 time out? Daboll's fault.

 

It is particularly the case with Allen because there are some fans who will just put the blame anywhere else. But it is a theme of Bills fans for years. Always blame the offensive coordinator for not getting more out of sub standard offensive talent. 

 

You know when we had a decent offense? 2015 and 2016.... when we had two offensive linemen go to the pro bowl, Lesean McCoy still close to his prime, a decent tight end in Charles Clay (before his knee became positively arthritic) and talent at receiver - Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Harvin and Goodwin. Yes we had Greg Roman who was and is a very good offensive coordinator but we know those other guys are good because with the exception of Wood, who never played anywhere else, they all have solid NFL production in other spots before Buffalo, after Buffalo or both. 

 

I know I sound like a broken record. But I just can't stress how strongly I feel that the biggest problem offensively remains talent. We just don't have enough good players. 

 

And I should say that I don't think Josh played a bad game on Saturday and while I see the point on some of those clips, on others yes there might have been different places Josh could have gone with the ball but the places he did go were still somewhat effective in those situations. 

 

But firing Daboll is not the answer to improving our offense. Josh getting better and the Bills improving the talent around him is. 

I agree with you that people can't look at every play that doesn't work and/or there's bad execution by the players and blame the OC. You can blame the OC for having a young QB on the road in his first playoff game throwing 46 passes or having him directly involved in 56 plays(46/9/1) vs only handing the ball off to the RBs 21 times. That's while leading or tied in almost the entire 69 minutes of the game. After his 15 scripted plays ran out he didn't call a good game, he consistently outsmarts himself.

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:


The throw to Williams and to  Smoke on the sideline were perfect.

 

Both receivers failed their QB in the clutch.

 

Both need to come down with those passes. Duke because he's on the field to get those type of catches and Brown's footwork was lazy at best. Has he never heard what a toe tap is?

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59 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

 

I don't have an agenda and you've missed my point. I video is unbiased and pure. who cares who posts it. I never said Allen didn't do anything right.  Your taking it personally and I have no idea why.  Just because someone that "hates" Allen posts videos of his bad plays doesn't invalidate his bad plays. If it would make you feel better I can link some videos of his good ones. My only point is nobody on this board (me included) knows if this is Dabolls fault.  I'm not citing this guys opinion but I watched everyone and he missed a whole bunch of stuff. It's typical of his season. Sooooo much better than last year but still not good enough.  Lets see what happens. This was always a point about Daboll anyhow, that Josh Allen isn't yet good enough is not controversial.  

 

Of course its about balance, his good vs bad. I'm super confused what your upset about. 

Perhaps I misunderstood your comments.  I simply ask why I should give validity to this guy’s analysis.  I think we all know Allen and every other QB sometimes make bad plays.

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16 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

I agree with you that people can't look at every play that doesn't work and/or there's bad execution by the players and blame the OC. You can blame the OC for having a young QB on the road in his first playoff game throwing 46 passes or having him directly involved in 56 plays(46/9/1) vs only handing the ball off to the RBs 21 times. That's while leading or tied in almost the entire 69 minutes of the game. After his 15 scripted plays ran out he didn't call a good game, he consistently outsmarts himself.

Both need to come down with those passes. Duke because he's on the field to get those type of catches and Brown's footwork was lazy at best. Has he never heard what a toe tap is?

 

That is why I said Daboll does deserve some criticism. I thought the pass / run balance in the 2nd half and OT was off abd there have been times this year when he has forgotten the run for stretches. But look, I don't think that is the main reason we lost. It comes down to talent and execution of what was called for me first and foremost. Firing Daboll to me is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it would likely do Josh's development more harm than good.

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2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is why the Dabol hate is so stupid.  Like, I don't think its just wrong. Its just stupid. 

There is a ton of stuff that can be commented on here, but I want to focus on just one thing, because it is so important.

 

Regarding the "Pick 6" that wasn't.  Watch that play over and over.  Josh telegraphs the throw the whole way and the DB is reading off of Josh, no doubt.  But watch how LATE Josh throws the football!  If that ball is in the air while Josh can only see the receiver's back, as it should have been, it is probably a catch, even with the DB reading Josh and sitting on the INT.

 

But Josh consistently lacks the ability to make those types of throws.  His notion of "open" is what he was used to at Wyoming and no different than Tyrod's notion of "open."


I.E., all too often, Josh (and Tyrod) need to see an open receiver, usually at a standstill, before they realize "oh, there's an open receiver and I should throw to him."

 

In the NFL that isn't going to work almost always.

 

My position with Josh is that at this point in his football career, he is either going to "get" this or not, and he clearly does not get it. He doesn't do the things top throwers do--consistently--and that's why he is not a top thrower.

 

He is always going to be the guy with unrealized potential.

 

The hope is that he will magically "learn" all this but if he doesn't have it now, he's not going to have it next September, or ever.

 

I often wonder if fans who complain about Daboll, the OL, and many other factors, really focus on Allen's individual characteristics/skills or lack thereof.  

 

We can also talk about his poor footwork, general lack of accuracy, inability to read a defense pre-snap, inability to be aware of where the safeties are at all times, inability to deal with a blitz, blah blah blah.


Just focus on his timing and making a TON of throws way late by NFL standards.

 

He runs into a lot of trouble simply because of that.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said:

28 starts , shouldn’t he be able to read these things by now?


I’ve seen veteran DCs confuse QBs that have 100 starts. 
 

Just look at what McDermott has done to Brady the last 3 years 

Edited by thebandit27
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2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There's that McKenzie play I've been ranting about - would've taken it to the house, most likely, but Josh throws it into the dirt.  Frustrating.

McKenzie also fell down coming out of his break but it’s not mentioned 

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9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is why I said Daboll does deserve some criticism. I thought the pass / run balance in the 2nd half and OT was off abd there have been times this year when he has forgotten the run for stretches. But look, I don't think that is the main reason we lost. It comes down to talent and execution of what was called for me first and foremost. Firing Daboll to me is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think it would likely do Josh's development more harm than good.

Agreed that firing Daboll would do more harm than good, but someone(McDermott or Beane) needs to sit him down and ask him WTH he was thinking. Josh is 2-4 when passing 35 times or more and now 0-3 when throwing over 40 times, he has to know those numbers, wouldn't you think? Including the Bills 48 attempts, the average number of passes for the 8 playoff teams last weekend was 31, we had 50% more than the average, again while leading or tied most of the game. Sometimes you can handcuff an offense with bad play calling, to me this was one of those game. Singletary was massively underutilized.

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21 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

Agreed that firing Daboll would do more harm than good, but someone(McDermott or Beane) needs to sit him down and ask him WTH he was thinking. Josh is 2-4 when passing 35 times or more and now 0-3 when throwing over 40 times, he has to know those numbers, wouldn't you think? Including the Bills 48 attempts, the average number of passes for the 8 playoff teams last weekend was 31, we had 50% more than the average, again while leading or tied most of the game. Sometimes you can handcuff an offense with bad play calling, to me this was one of those game. Singletary was massively underutilized.

 

I think he has struggled to really find an identity for the offense. There were signs of it in that run between Cleveland and Baltimore with the up tempo and the 11 personnel but after the Ravens stopped it they seemed to give up on the idea. 

 

As for Saturday. If we are 21-0 up as we should have been or if one of our 3 blockers blocks the Texans one defender we win the game. Yes I thought in the 2nd half and OT Singletary was underused. But our offense still had enough easy plays there to make. The players didn't make them. 

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