The Bills should re-sign Shaq and J. Phillips

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Why do I worry deep down that both of these guys will fall back after receiving fat new contracts?

[Putin]

On 12/18/2019 at 2:02 PM, WMDman said:

though this has been discussed to death, I agree

I agree , it’s been discussed to death 

[GoBills808]

15 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Phillips ain't getting anything close to the kind of deal I'm seeing in this thread. He had a grand total of 5.5 sacks in FIVE SEASONS prior to this year's outburst. Teams are gonna be leery about giving out a huge deal with that track record.

 

On the contrary, Shaq is gonna get MORE than the kind of deal I'm seeing theorized. His numbers have steadily risen, plays a premium position, and has everything you look for "on paper." 

 

 

I’m almost positive this is correct. I’m also of the opinion that McDermott knows exactly how much Phillips is worth and the offer will reflect that.

[Bangarang]

35 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

I thought you were too young to remember Marcell

High quality stuff

[DrDawkinstein]

22 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills are gonna be nearly 100 million under the cap. Not sure we need to be worrying about how much individual players are making right now. The Bills can afford whatever they want. 

 

This.

 

We can re-sign all of our own FAs to high-market deals, AND get our extensions done, AND still have about $30M in cap space.

 

No one should be worried about spending NFL TV-deal money, or Terry Pegula's money. Beane can go nuts and still not put us in cap jail.

[ColoradoBills]

7 hours ago, TPS said:

The fact that Oliver is a rookie makes it possible to sign Phillips. Give him a 4-year deal that sets up to release him in the 4th year when Oliver will either be given his 5th year option or extended. As for Shaq, there is no comparison between his production vs Murphy, but you are right to question that it's a contract year, and it will be interesting to see what Beane does.

As for future signings, especially when it comes to Josh and Edmunds, the current big contracts will ( most likely) all be gone--Star, Hughes, Morse, Brown, et al.  In general, I think the Bills need about 2 more drafts to get to the point where they are drafting replacements, and grooming them 1-2 years for starting roles.  For now, they will have to rely on FAs to fill some key roles until they get there. 

 

Morse and Brown most likely stay for their entire contracts.

[TPS]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Morse and Brown most likely stay for their entire contracts.

Brown is done in 2021, Morse in 22. Josh and Tremaine  are good through 2022 with their 5th year options.

The point is, Beane has them set up so that they can make some significant signings now AND retain their own moving forward.

[billsfan89]

I think Phillips is a must resign and I think Shaq you can justify a big contract for too. Although I would be more willing to have a limit as to what I would be willing to pay to keep Shaq (I think he is more of a rotational DE) but both would be a priority to keep. It would be great to keep Spain, Shaq, and Phillips while being able to sign another high end edge rusher. 

[Victory Formation]

I’d definitely re-sign Shaq and Jordan Phillips if the money is right. With that said we have to keep in mind that Von Miller, Bud Dupree and Matthew Judon are free agents as well and that’s just off the top of my head.

 

Shaq and Phillips are one year wonders, if they want top dollar I think you go elsewhere with that money. It has to be an incentive based contract and honestly, would you rather have Von Miller or Matthew Judon or Bud Dupree with that money? Keep in mind that we drafted Oliver #9 overall to play Phillips’ position. Hard decision although I think I’m getting cold feet.

 

 

[dayman]

Keep Shaq and in bring in Von Miller! Phillips is great but he can walk that's why we have Oliver.

[longtimebillsfan]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:59 AM, TPS said:

Both of these guys have bought into the process and should be re-signed. Statistically, I think they are the best options as well.

jordan Phillips is straightforward: 9.5 sacks on 460 defensive snaps. Compare that to A. DONALD who has 11 sacks on 823 defensive snaps. Hopefully, he'll be willing to take a home town discount. At any rate, signing him keeps their DT rotation in place and continuity is valuable. 

 

Shaq is the more interesting case. Many people want the Bills to go after yannick Ngakoue of the Jags. Compare their stats. Ngakoue has 8 sacks, 13 TFLs, and 13 QB hits on 680 defensive snaps; Shaq has 6.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 17 QB hits on 435 defensive snaps. There really is no comparison, Shaq is the better player based on production per snap. And, Again, continuity is valuable. The Bills should then draft an edge rusher in one of the first two rounds to groom behind Hughes. 

 

It would probably take $16-20 million/ year, but it would lock them in for their next 4-year super bowl run. If D. Johnson continues to develop, then they could also move on from Murphy which saves them $7 mil.  Shaq has been more productive anyway, and should be the starting LDE. 

 

At any rate, I think this may be the best route for the Bills, and it keeps the D nearly intact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My only concern with Shaq that this is his first really good year.  Is he motivated because it us s contract year or does he thrive in this system?  I would not guarantee much of the contact.  Insert lots of incentives.  IMHO.

[TPS]

19 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

My only concern with Shaq that this is his first really good year.  Is he motivated because it us s contract year or does he thrive in this system?  I would not guarantee much of the contact.  Insert lots of incentives.  IMHO.

I agree with you, definitely build incentives in. 

However, what is undeniable is his production compared to Murphy's, and many other 2020 FA DEs that have been talked about.  Even his 2018 production is also a little better than Murphy's.      

 

Btw, I'm pretty sure his first NFL sack was Brady, so I hope he continues that...

 

 

[3rdand12]

On 12/18/2019 at 2:59 PM, TPS said:

Both of these guys have bought into the process and should be re-signed. Statistically, I think they are the best options as well.

jordan Phillips is straightforward: 9.5 sacks on 460 defensive snaps. Compare that to A. DONALD who has 11 sacks on 823 defensive snaps. Hopefully, he'll be willing to take a home town discount. At any rate, signing him keeps their DT rotation in place and continuity is valuable. 

 

Shaq is the more interesting case. Many people want the Bills to go after yannick Ngakoue of the Jags. Compare their stats. Ngakoue has 8 sacks, 13 TFLs, and 13 QB hits on 680 defensive snaps; Shaq has 6.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 17 QB hits on 435 defensive snaps. There really is no comparison, Shaq is the better player based on production per snap. And, Again, continuity is valuable. The Bills should then draft an edge rusher in one of the first two rounds to groom behind Hughes. 

 

It would probably take $16-20 million/ year, but it would lock them in for their next 4-year super bowl run. If D. Johnson continues to develop, then they could also move on from Murphy which saves them $7 mil.  Shaq has been more productive anyway, and should be the starting LDE. 

 

At any rate, I think this may be the best route for the Bills, and it keeps the D nearly intact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. These two are part of a fine foundation.

 and something key for me with contracts. I do not perceive any let up from either of these guys once they get paid. they will not coast or become lazy.
Good investment.

 

This year is super interesting to me to see how McBeanes does McBeane with contracts. Very telling when they come out of this offseason and what they have going into draft etc

5 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Why do I worry deep down that both of these guys will fall back after receiving fat new contracts?

Bills trauma. its a formal affliction and noted in Medical dictionaries world wide.

 It was able to be localized with proper treatment.

 Have hope. You too can be healed Al.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I’m almost positive this is correct. I’m also of the opinion that McDermott knows exactly how much Phillips is worth and the offer will reflect that.

But will the Bills retain either or both?
I am sure McBeanes will make a very fair and respectful valued offer to both.

 Either before or after a sit down talk about allowing them to try the market if they feel the need.

 One thing is , i feel the FO will be upfront and honest.

 its a weird feeling. But i would be okay getting used to it.

 No river boat gambler McBeanes  lol

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

But will the Bills retain either or both?
I am sure McBeanes will make a very fair and respectful valued offer to both.

 Either before or after a sit down talk about allowing them to try the market if they feel the need.

 One thing is , i feel the FO will be upfront and honest.

 its a weird feeling. But i would be okay getting used to it.

 No river boat gambler McBeanes  lol

I think Lawson is the more valuable piece in this defense. But like you say both will probably get reasonable offers from the Bills imo

[longtimebillsfan]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

I agree with you, definitely build incentives in. 

However, what is undeniable is his production compared to Murphy's, and many other 2020 FA DEs that have been talked about.  Even his 2018 production is also a little better than Murphy's.      

 

Btw, I'm pretty sure his first NFL sack was Brady, so I hope he continues that...

 

 

His first sack may be worth resigning him.

[LSHMEAB]

My dream free agent is Yannick Ngakoue, but I'm not sure that's realistic. He'll have a ton of suitors, but I hope Beane get heavily involved.

 

Also quite possible he'll get tagged, but they did just draft Josh Allen. We shall see.

[3rdand12]

25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

My dream free agent is Yannick Ngakoue, but I'm not sure that's realistic. He'll have a ton of suitors, but I hope Beane get heavily involved.

 

Also quite possible he'll get tagged, but they did just draft Josh Allen. We shall see.

How do you feel about drafting , having patience, faith in Coaching?
 

 You well know Beanes will not outbid for FAs. Nor should he.

 Look how the Frank Clark thing turned out.

Grow you own.
Hughes will come to pass naturally over next two years. Murphy perhaps sooner or renegotiate (better option imo)
Star is on his way to retirement and knows it.
 Plenty of players on the D line to replace. I vote we keep what has been working and pay them what they have earned.

as i mentioned above , i have no reason to think their hustle and work ethic will leave after new contract arrives, ala Dareus etc.

 

If you are bringing in young players? and they should, i feel Phillips and Lawson are going to be decent mentors as well as great team mates

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

How do you feel about drafting , having patience, faith in Coaching?
 

 You well know Beanes will not outbid for FAs. Nor should he.

 Look how the Frank Clark thing turned out.

Grow you own.
Hughes will come to pass naturally over next two years. Murphy perhaps sooner or renegotiate (better option imo)
Star is on his way to retirement and knows it.
 Plenty of players on the D line to replace. I vote we keep what has been working and pay them what they have earned.

as i mentioned above , i have no reason to think their hustle and work ethic will leave after new contract arrives, ala Dareus etc.

 

If you are bringing in young players? and they should, i feel Phillips and Lawson are going to be decent mentors as well as great team mates

The thing with Lawson is that he's going to get paid 10 plus mil a year, so Beane could get into a bidding war just to keep him. Yannick will get paid more, but I think he's well worth the difference. They didn't land Clark, but they were definitely in on both he and Clowney. That action demonstrated that Beane is very "in" on landing a stud DE.

[BillsFan17]

I absolutely give Phillips a pay day. Shaq, while I love how hes developed, if he prices his way out, itll be tough, but understandable.