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StHustle

NFL.com ranks Top 25 QB's of All Time: Jim Kelly #21

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7 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Stupid list Aikman doesn't belong in the top 25 for sure. I would take Jim Kelly over Ben Roethlisberger any day of the week John Elway no way he's that high. Brady is a douchebag would not be on my top 25 list. Cool Joe Montana will always be greatest of all-time in my book

Brady wouldn’t crack my top 25 either. Rode the coattails of the Bellicheck system where cheating was arguably the biggest component of their success. There are hundreds of QBs in NFL history who could have done what Brady did on that team, with Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo being two of them.

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Just now, Troll Toll said:

Brady wouldn’t crack my top 25 either. Rode the coattails of the Bellicheck system where cheating was arguably the biggest component of their success. There are hundreds of QBs in NFL history who could have done what Brady did on that team, with Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo being two of them.

 

This is silly.  Borderline cute, really.

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4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Wins are a team statistic.

 

And QB is by far the most important player in determining winning and losing, and is the most important position in any sport. A QB can't win by himself, but good QBs elevate their team.

 

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

Brady wouldn’t crack my top 25 either. Rode the coattails of the Bellicheck system where cheating was arguably the biggest component of their success. There are hundreds of QBs in NFL history who could have done what Brady did on that team, with Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo being two of them.

 

Anyone who says Brady isn't a top 25 QB is a fool.

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

This is silly.  Borderline cute, really.

 

Put Brady on the Bills for his career and he doesn’t avoid the drought. He likely would have been out of the NFL by 2005.

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1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

 

Put Brady on the Bills for his career and he doesn’t avoid the drought. He likely would have been out of the NFL by 2005.

 

You are just ADORABLE!!  I want to squeeze your cheeks!

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27 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but I would bet that it would be close to unanimous among current and former HCs in favor of Manning over Rodgers.

Probably. But  to be fair I think a lot of that would be the ‘field general’ hype around Manning and the questions about Rodgers’ personality quirks.

 

Where the Manning argument gets some cred w me is that we’ve witnessed his whole career, downslide and all, whereas Rodgers is still pretty much in his prime. That’s valid. But wins and such...meh. Leaving aside the fact that one of the knocks against Manning was precisely his ability to win in the postseason, I’d argue he benefitted from better teams/coaching over Rodgers, not to mention the added QB-specific premium playing in a dome affords.

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9 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I think that's a bit low for Kelly.  I've become accustomed to calling him a top-15 QB.

 

But so much of it is subjective.

 

I think there's an unquestioned top 4 of (in no particular order) Unitas, Montana, Brady, Manning.  After that there's a HUGE chasm before you get to the next tier of 10-12 that includes, IMO: Elway, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Favre, Brees, and Graham.  I can see an argument for Bradshaw based upon Super Bowl wins, so throw him in there as well.  Same goes for Big Ben.  I think recency-bias is weighing too much when I see names like Rodgers, Wilson, and Warner in there, but if you add those dudes in there, then there's your group of 12.

 

So I suppose I'd say there's a top-4, a top-16, and after that it's highly debatable.

Elway and Brees are easily top 6.

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45 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Brady wouldn’t crack my top 25 either. Rode the coattails of the Bellicheck system where cheating was arguably the biggest component of their success. There are hundreds of QBs in NFL history who could have done what Brady did on that team, with Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo being two of them.

Wow...our scouting is much worse than I thought.....

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Kelly wins 1 super bowl you could put him probably up to 15. Right behind Aikman....

 

Phillip Rivers ever wins a Super Bowl you can slide him into the top 20...

 

This list is set off Super Bowl wins... Bradshaw was terrible skill wise but because he had 5 HOF players on each side of the ball plus all the Super Bowls he’s selected high.

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7 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

JK was as good a passer as any of them and a better leader than all of them.  Where he fell short was game management- he was just a little stubborn and would try to force things by sheer will power when he should not have against the better defenses.  No better example than Super Bowl  XXV.  

As far as ranking in the list - definitely top 10.  

He was as tough as nails but I am sure that he would readily admit that he should have taken better care of himself.

 

And do let me add that I am NOT judging him. Who knows how I would have acted having been in his situation. 

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8 hours ago, 416BillsFan said:

Looking really brings into focus how special Kelly vs Marino was. Can anyone name a recent QB rivalry within the same division that can compare? The only one at the moments that springs to mind is Rivers/Mahomes, but that doesn't exactly fit the bill as they came into the league 13 years apart.

 

Peyton and Brady?

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1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Elway and Brees are easily top 6.

 

I don't agree 

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10 hours ago, StHustle said:


Not a big Steve Young fan?


We all hate Brady and as much as I hate admitting this, it has become easier now that I know his retirement or sharp decline is imminent. But......Brady is the GOAT. Not only the greatest QB of all time but would have to be mentioned with the top overall players of all time. And that couple be considered for sports PERIOD. Not just the NFL.

+1  on Brady.  When I used to watch Jordan kill my Knicks on the way to their 6 championship, I used to hate Jordan.   Now when I  watch his videos (especially when you are so detached from the Knicks!!!) he is simple amazing.    the same goes for Brady.   He is the GOAT

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3 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

 

Put Brady on the Bills for his career and he doesn’t avoid the drought. He likely would have been out of the NFL by 2005.

Your name suits you well.

 

Tom Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all time and he'd be a winner anywhere. Would be have 6 rings? Probably not. But to insinuate the Bills wouldn't have been a playoff team is crazy talk. Of course we don't LIKE Tom Brady. But cognitive dissonance is not healthy.

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I think Marino should be higher. He wasn't great against the Bills all the time, but it was incredible just how far above the rest of the league he was with his stats, and there were times when the D-unit he was facing would know what was coming and he just moved the ball up and down the field like no-one else did from his era.  I actually think Elway is rated a bit too high.  I was never overly impressed by him.  I think his stock is higher than it should becaau of 'the drive', where he was picked (#1 overall) and his superbowls at the end of his career (that he didn't contribute too much toward).  Too many games I watched Elway (and I saw a ton of his games) where he made a dumb play or thew a bad interception that lost the game for the Broncos.

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3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Probably. But  to be fair I think a lot of that would be the ‘field general’ hype around Manning and the questions about Rodgers’ personality quirks.

 

Where the Manning argument gets some cred w me is that we’ve witnessed his whole career, downslide and all, whereas Rodgers is still pretty much in his prime. That’s valid. But wins and such...meh. Leaving aside the fact that one of the knocks against Manning was precisely his ability to win in the postseason, I’d argue he benefitted from better teams/coaching over Rodgers, not to mention the added QB-specific premium playing in a dome affords.

Manning could easily have zero SB rings. In his first win, he beat a REX GROSSMAN led Bears team. In his second, he had one of the most dominant defensive units of this generation and played a Trent Dilfer role. 

 

Agreed on Rodgers. From a pure statistical standpoint, he's the best QB of all time. I wouldn't put him at number 1, but he's in my top 6 or 7.

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13 hours ago, StHustle said:


Not a big Steve Young fan?


We all hate Brady and as much as I hate admitting this, it has become easier now that I know his retirement or sharp decline is imminent. But......Brady is the GOAT. Not only the greatest QB of all time but would have to be mentioned with the top overall players of all time. And that couple be considered for sports PERIOD. Not just the NFL.

 

No, he’s not.  He just played in an era where every rule was changed to favor the QBs and keep them playing.  He would have retired at 34 like the rest of them if he played a generation earlier.

 

And if you are seriously comparing him to Ruth and Gretzky, you must be drunk.

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15 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Stupid list Aikman doesn't belong in the top 25 for sure. I would take Jim Kelly over Ben Roethlisberger any day of the week John Elway no way he's that high. Brady is a douchebag would not be on my top 25 list. Cool Joe Montana will always be greatest of all-time in my book

 

I agree with just about everything here except the Elway comment--he deserves his spot.  Warner and Wilson ahead of Jim is not remotely funny.  If these pundits want to hold Kelly accountable for all those SB losses why don't they blame the aforementioned QB's for losing their second SB's when they should've won them easily? 

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7 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I think Marino should be higher. He wasn't great against the Bills all the time, but it was incredible just how far above the rest of the league he was with his stats, and there were times when the D-unit he was facing would know what was coming and he just moved the ball up and down the field like no-one else did from his era.  I actually think Elway is rated a bit too high.  I was never overly impressed by him.  I think his stock is higher than it should becaau of 'the drive', where he was picked (#1 overall) and his superbowls at the end of his career (that he didn't contribute too much toward).  Too many games I watched Elway (and I saw a ton of his games) where he made a dumb play or thew a bad interception that lost the game for the Broncos.

I agree and disagree.

 

 

Marino threw 40 yard square outs. I saw him throw one at RWS. We can hate him all we want but the guy was incredible and an all time great..

 

Elway was a mega talented QB who was one of the best athletes to ever play. A few QBs who could throw 65 or 70 yard strikes got carried away and took to many risks. Elway fell into that category for a while. Imo he was a better QB when he learned to mix it up more and run the ball with Terrell Davis. He was top 10 imo.

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12 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

Brady wouldn’t crack my top 25 either. Rode the coattails of the Bellicheck system where cheating was arguably the biggest component of their success. There are hundreds of QBs in NFL history who could have done what Brady did on that team, with Matt Cassell and Jimmy Garoppolo being two of them.

Brady threw for 50 TD's and 8 INT's in 2007.  Cassel threw for 21 TD's and 11 INT's the next year with basically the same offense after Brady went down week 1.  Garoppolo only played in two and a half games when Brady was suspended.  This is a horrible take.  You just made me defend Tom fricken Brady.

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21 hours ago, row_33 said:

Kelly wasn’t a superstar, the O was very solid and trounced a horrible AFC

 

Jim was a perfect fit to lead Buffalo to its best years in franchise history

 

 

Marino screaming  at his WRs wouldn’t have worked for the Bills

 

Kelly wasn’t a superstar?!  

 

I mean it’s debatable where he falls on the list of all time greats, but anyone in the Top-25 debate is a superstar. 

 

🤦🏼‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I agree and disagree.

 

 

Marino threw 40 yard square outs. I saw him throw one at RWS. We can hate him all we want but the guy was incredible and an all time great..

 

Elway was a mega talented QB who was one of the best athletes to ever play. A few QBs who could throw 65 or 70 yard strikes got carried away and took to many risks. Elway fell into that category for a while. Imo he was a better QB when he learned to mix it up more and run the ball with Terrell Davis. He was top 10 imo.

 

Here's the problem with Marino: he went to a Super Bowl very early in his career, lost, and never returned.

 

That, on its face, is not the story.

 

The real story is that a QB from his same draft class entered the division a year later and proceeded to dominate the division for a decade.

 

I mean, we discount Jimbo for not winning the big one, and that's a single game played at the end of a grueling 6 month run. The division is a cumulative performance. If you cant win your own division, how great can you really be?

 

Did Marino ever beat either Elway or Kelly in the playoffs? Even once? Honestly asking because I haven't looked it up (admittedly I should; I am being lazy).

 

Marino was a great passer and deserves to be on this list. He isn't in the conversation as a top-tier, GOAT guy IMO.

 

PS happy fourth to you and yours 🇺🇸

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23 hours ago, row_33 said:

Kelly wasn’t a superstar, the O was very solid and trounced a horrible AFC

 

Jim was a perfect fit to lead Buffalo to its best years in franchise history

 

 

Marino screaming  at his WRs wouldn’t have worked for the Bills

 

The Bills during Kelly’s time beat more NFC teams than losses during his tenure, so to just purport a crappy AFC doesn’t account for the Oilers, Raiders,  Broncos, and so on.  The Chiefs were also pretty good back then.  I know it’s popular to say the AFC sucked back then, but it was not that much worse than the NFC as an aggregate.  I also would have put Kelly ahead of Warner.  I like Warner, but he had some bad years in NY, and resurrected his career in Arizona.

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4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Brady threw for 50 TD's and 8 INT's in 2007.  Cassel threw for 21 TD's and 11 INT's the next year with basically the same offense after Brady went down week 1.  Garoppolo only played in two and a half games when Brady was suspended.  This is a horrible take.  You just made me defend Tom fricken Brady.

Not unusual for you.

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On 7/5/2019 at 8:55 AM, thebandit27 said:

 

 

I like Steve Young, but on a per-game basis Jim was the superior QB.

http://pfref.com/tiny/02C2S

 

I think young is in the next tier.

Bandit, those numbers are completely flawed by the TB years.  Young on SF is a top 10 QBs of all time.  He was one of the greatest qbs I’ve ever seen during that window.

 

and I’ll say it but Kelly is overrated here (which I get).  He’s far and away our greatest but the Bills were one of the most loaded teams ever and he was terrible in the playoffs. He definitely belongs in the top 25 but towards the lower end. 

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