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Bills secondary left out of top-tier mention

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Posted (edited)

I'm mad as h*** and I'm not gonna take it anymore!

 

Who does this Justin Diloro character think he is?? Really. Who is he?

Edited by LSHMEAB
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4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Fox everything is starting to become unwatchable

 

You cannot go to website just to read articles anymore.  It has become a tablet style video board.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

While I think this needs to be clarified (ran all over us) I do think if you defend the run better, you will see more pass attempts and thus the yardage will go up a bit.  So I'm not sure I have an issue here except with having the Browns over the Bills and Jags.  The Browns, based on last year shouldn't even be on this list.  I'll show why I think this below.  But let's look at this.

 

The Bills had to defend the run 440 times

 

The Bears 339 times

The Ravens 354 times

The Chargers 395 times

The Browns 454 times

 

The Bills had to defend the pass 492 times 30.8 attempts per game

 

The Bears 615 times  38.4 attempts per game

The Ravens 577 times 36.1 attempts per game

The Chargers 533 times  34.2 attempts per game

The Browns 626 times  39.1 attempts per game

 

Here is how I look at this.  The Bills because they had to defend the run more than the top 3 teams on that list were going to have less pass defense snaps per game.  The top 3 not only defended the run well forcing teams to pass, but they had more pass attempts to defend and when it comes to passing yards per game, which is what Micah cites to suggest that we've been slighted, they are still in the top 10 in yards per game too.  So to me, because those teams had more attempts to defend and they are around 30 yds or less per game in the ball park, I can't say that we clearly have the better secondary, if this is just based on numbers.  We had enough less attempts to defend to make those numbers be in our favor.

 

The Browns though.  To me, this is where the slap in the face comes in.  Let's look at them.  Not only did they have to defend the run more than we did, they had a significant number more pass attempts to defend and their total yards per game is not even in the same ball park.  We at least should have been on the damn list over the Browns.  Either us or Jacksonville before the Browns.  So to wrap this up I don't necessarily have an issue with them talking about Chicago, Baltimore, and San Diego per se.  But to have the Browns mentioned over us is just foolishness.

I really appreciate the breakdown as it points to some weak areas on our team, particularly the ineptitude of our offense as they afforded teams too much opportunity to play with leads and have the luxury of running the ball more. But that's another discussion.

 

But yeah, the run defense was weaker than it should have been. 

 

As to the pass defense stats, I think what I posted earlier bears repeating: passing yards given up is NOT the meaningful stat; ypa and QB passer rating against are the two that matter most. We finished tied for 1st in ypa against and finished 3rd in passer rating against (Bears, Ravens). Anybody analyzing the strength of passing defense needs to look at those numbers first and foremost. It says a lot about the authors of that FOX Sports poll that they didn't.

 

Shoddy research. At best. 

 

Edited by K-9
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5 hours ago, TroutDog said:

I agree our secondary is good but teams did run all over us last year so no need for huge passing numbers. 

 

don't spoil the narrative that a bunch of lines on a spreadsheet is more important than what honestly happened out there  :D

 

 

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The more chips on the shoulders of this team, the better. 

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6 hours ago, K-9 said:

Op/Ed is journalism. Just like investigative, special features, politics, and everything else under that umbrella.

 

Even a cursory examination of the pass defense stats suggests they were lazy in not mentioning the third best overall pass defense in the league last year. 

 

I could give two schits if any writer criticizes the Bills, warranted or not. But I have a low tolerance for laziness.

 

So you'd be upset over a lazy write up on an episode of masked singer then.

 

It's an equally weird thing to get worked up over in this day when we're surrounded by it in unimportant areas like creating unnecessary content about a sports league constantly.

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6 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

So you'd be upset over a lazy write up on an episode of masked singer then.

 

It's an equally weird thing to get worked up over in this day when we're surrounded by it in unimportant areas like creating unnecessary content about a sports league constantly.

Nobody’s “worked up” about anything. Except, apparently, you.

 

If people voicing voicing their opinion on a shoddily assembled list of top five secondaries in the NFL while providing superior information to back those opinions up is too “weird” for you, perhaps you should decline to participate. 

 

This place must drive you nuts. 

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Just now, K-9 said:

Nobody’s “worked up” about anything. Except, apparently, you.

 

If people voicing voicing their opinion on a shoddily assembled list of top five secondaries in the NFL while providing superior information to back those opinions up is too “weird” for you, perhaps you should decline to participate. 

 

This place must drive you nuts. 

 

No it doesn't, just don't really buy your explanation. The whole low tolerance thing suggests otherwise, but it's cool. 

 

I get annoyed being in line behind people at the store who take out the 87 cents to get back no change and take forever looking for it. Just take the 13 cents, society needs rules. If you take longer than 5 seconds your attempt is cancelled like a shot clock on change.

 

We've all got our things lol. Just giving an example, I know when I'm irrational with what annoys me.

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14 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

No it doesn't, just don't really buy your explanation. The whole low tolerance thing suggests otherwise, but it's cool. 

 

I get annoyed being in line behind people at the store who take out the 87 cents to get back no change and take forever looking for it. Just take the 13 cents, society needs rules. If you take longer than 5 seconds your attempt is cancelled like a shot clock on change.

 

We've all got our things lol. Just giving an example, I know when I'm irrational with what annoys me.

If the worst thing that happens to you on a given day is waiting a bit longer in line at the store, you’re having a damn good day.

 

Have you ever irked the person behind you for taking extra time? 

 

I don’t think calling into question a list of top defensive secondaries compiled via half-assed research is irrational in the least. If consumers don’t hold content providers accountable, who does? 

 

Anyway, we’ve tossed this around long enough. Feel free to avoid my takes in the future if it’s like the counting out 87 cents. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, K-9 said:

If the worst thing that happens to you on a given day is waiting a bit longer in line at the store, you’re having a damn good day.

 

Have you ever irked the person behind you for taking extra time? 

 

I don’t think calling into question a list of top defensive secondaries compiled via half-assed research is irrational in the least. If consumers don’t hold content providers accountable, who does? 

 

Anyway, we’ve tossed this around long enough. Feel free to avoid my takes in the future if it’s like the counting out 87 cents. 

 

 

You're a blast to talk to man. I see self-deprecation isn't a concept you understand much like media. 

 

Have a good one.

 

Edit: And btw I don't take extra time because I'm a considerate person. I take the employees consideration into mind and the others in line in mind. I usually have a good estimation of what I'm spending. 

Edited by Ol Dirty B

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Sure would be nice to worry about winning playoff games instead of winning some random asswipe’s top 5 list.

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9 hours ago, Logic said:

It's Fox Sports. They're the ones who allowed the rigged "best fanbase vote" to go on without any mention of all the cheating on behalf of Titans fans.

So, I guess what I'm saying is....Fox Sports Twitter polls are worth about as much as AOL stock at this point.

 

Did I hold onto my AOL stock to long?  Crap i got to call my broker

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, K-9 said:

If the worst thing that happens to you on a given day is waiting a bit longer in line at the store, you’re having a damn good day.

 

Have you ever irked the person behind you for taking extra time? 

 

I don’t think calling into question a list of top defensive secondaries compiled via half-assed research is irrational in the least. If consumers don’t hold content providers accountable, who does? 

 

Anyway, we’ve tossed this around long enough. Feel free to avoid my takes in the future if it’s like the counting out 87 cents. 

 

 

I usually pay with a card. My first priority is to be convenient for the employees and everyone else at the expense of myself. So if cash is the way to go, I'll do that. And I buy the same things all the time, so if I have the change it's ready. Otherwise I'm taking the 45 or 97 cents, whatever.

 

Which is why I think people who have a low tolerance for laziness are generally worthless and irreedemable because I know you're all up in that counting out 87 cents with like 18 nickles and 7 pennies because "your change purse is heavy". Because that's thrifty and a good days work to find a way to spend the 87 cents. 

 

Gross, count me out. I piss 87 cents.

 

Like everyone is going to give you a clap behind you in line for that nasty ass penny the cashier doesn't want to touch because you dug it up out of God knows where.

Edited by Ol Dirty B

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It’s Vontae’s fault!

 

That’s all the national guys remember about our secondary from last year, clearly :P

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14 hours ago, K-9 said:

I really appreciate the breakdown as it points to some weak areas on our team, particularly the ineptitude of our offense as they afforded teams too much opportunity to play with leads and have the luxury of running the ball more. But that's another discussion.

 

But yeah, the run defense was weaker than it should have been. 

 

As to the pass defense stats, I think what I posted earlier bears repeating: passing yards given up is NOT the meaningful stat; ypa and QB passer rating against are the two that matter most. We finished tied for 1st in ypa against and finished 3rd in passer rating against (Bears, Ravens). Anybody analyzing the strength of passing defense needs to look at those numbers first and foremost. It says a lot about the authors of that FOX Sports poll that they didn't.

 

Shoddy research. At best. 

 

 

I don't necessarily disagree, I was just going off of what Micah Hyde posted on twitter as proof.  What I would say though is yards per attempt and QB passer rating are directly impacted by the number of attempts.  In any case, to have the Browns even in the conversation is just idiocy on their part.  I guess they are everyone's redemption story now after being bad for so long.

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-pff-data-study-coverage-vs-pass-rush

 

This may have been posted previously on this board, but it is worth alt least skimming and reading the conclusion.  TL/DR: Coverage is more important than pass rush in pass defense, but is less predictable year to year.

 

One example cited is Pats vs. KC.  The Pats have a much better secondary and lesser pass rush while KC was the opposite.  We saw the results, much of which was due to Brady’s ability to get the ball out quickly.

 

The conclusions do bode well for the Bills who are definitely building the right way per the article.  It also alleviates some of my concerns about the DEs other than Hughes. 

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1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

I don't necessarily disagree, I was just going off of what Micah Hyde posted on twitter as proof.  What I would say though is yards per attempt and QB passer rating are directly impacted by the number of attempts.  In any case, to have the Browns even in the conversation is just idiocy on their part.  I guess they are everyone's redemption story now after being bad for so long.

 

They're not.  Yards per attempt is an average whereas QBR is a measure of how QB's did against them.  More attempts doesn't mean those would have increased, although yardage allowed certainly would have.

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20 hours ago, HOUSE said:

By: Justin DiLoro | 5 hours ago

 

Usually, teams who have the best secondaries often limit the number of passing yards allowed.

Apparently, Fox Sports didn’t get that memo.

 

 

It's Fox... they won't deal with the truth... they would rather perpetuate fiction. Nothing has changed!

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This ranking seems to me to be a silly thing to be irritated with. 

 

First, as @Virgil mentioned, there is currently no identifiable starter at CB2--how many different guys started there last year? Why would any media outlet rank a team in their top whatever when they can't even tell you who their CB2 is?

Second, while all NFL Ds attempt to work as a unit, I would say that McD's D absolutely depends on all parts of the D working together for its success, especially in the passing game. In fact, his LBs may be just as important as his DBs???  How is it they can plug in guys throughout the season and still make it work?  It's more the system than the talent, but talent sure helps. The Bills D is very good because McD's system and coaching make "the whole greater than the sum of its parts."  I think this is why the Pats are always so good as well--it has more to do with Belichick getting them to play as a unit than their talent.  

 

The D returns almost complete, with (maybe) 2 exceptions: Oliver and whoever wins the CB2 spot.  That continuity will make the unit even better this year, as will an O that is capable of scoring more and staying on the field more.  This is going to be a very stingy defense and should keep them in every game.  Who gives a rats ---- what the national media think at this point?!?  The accolades will come with Ws and a playoff berth....

Pancho Power.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, TPS said:

This ranking seems to me to be a silly thing to be irritated with. 

 

First, as @Virgil mentioned, there is currently no identifiable starter at CB2--how many different guys started there last year? Why would any media outlet rank a team in their top whatever when they can't even tell you who their CB2 is?

Second, while all NFL Ds attempt to work as a unit, I would say that McD's D absolutely depends on all parts of the D working together for its success, especially in the passing game. In fact, his LBs may be just as important as his DBs???  How is it they can plug in guys throughout the season and still make it work?  It's more the system than the talent, but talent sure helps. The Bills D is very good because McD's system and coaching make "the whole greater than the sum of its parts."  I think this is why the Pats are always so good as well--it has more to do with Belichick getting them to play as a unit than their talent.  

 

The D returns almost complete, with (maybe) 2 exceptions: Oliver and whoever wins the CB2 spot.  That continuity will make the unit even better this year, as will an O that is capable of scoring more and staying on the field more.  This is going to be a very stingy defense and should keep them in every game.  Who gives a rats ---- what the national media think at this point?!?  The accolades will come with Ws and a playoff berth....

Pancho Power.

 

 

Because that same secondary finished 1st and 3rd in the most important pass defense statistics without that identifiable #2 CB. 

 

And since Wallace did nothing less than solidify the position once he was inserted into the lineup and I’m not sure the job isn’t his to lose currently, I might argue we do know who our 2CB is. 

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10 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

It’s Vontae’s fault!

 

That’s all the national guys remember about our secondary from last year, clearly :P

 

There's actually a lot of truth to this. Sadly, national media people who get paid to cover the NFL don't follow the Bills and know this team nearly as well as the average TBD'er. Examples include Colin Cowherd, Shannon Sharpe, Stephen A. Smith, Cris Carter, etc. So much of what they know about the team comes from the following:

 

1. Vontae Davis quitting at halftime.

2. Nate Peterman and the ensuing blowouts.

3. Josh Allen not having over 60% completion percentage in small college program.

4. 17-year playoff drought coupled with Pats winning the division and sweeping us every year.

5. Antonio Brown rejecting us.

 

The narrative of the Bills being a joke will only change when they start winning games, and it probably won't even take much for the narrative to turn. Start the season 4-0 and watch as people suddenly start talking about us as a legit Super Bowl contender.

 

Regarding the pass defense, there were still a few major flaws I saw last year:

 

1. Below-average pass rush opposite Hughes. At least one of Lawson or a healthy Murphy needs to step up.

2. Instability at the CB position opposite White. Either Wallace or a healthy Gaines can secure this spot.

3. Statistically poor red zone defense. A lot of this may have been fatigue from the historically awful Bills offense last season.

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21 hours ago, TroutDog said:

I agree our secondary is good but teams did run all over us last year so no need for huge passing numbers. 

We were 16th in total yards rushing against us and 10th in yds per rush.

 

I guess if you consider that running all over us then Ok.  I think teams realized it was better to try running on us because our pass D was that good.

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33 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Because that same secondary finished 1st and 3rd in the most important pass defense statistics without that identifiable #2 CB. 

 

And since Wallace did nothing less than solidify the position once he was inserted into the lineup and I’m not sure the job isn’t his to lose currently, I might argue we do know who our 2CB is. 

 

More than that, Wallace didn't start until game 9, meaning the #2 spot was manned by a chump like Davis and then a dud like Ryan Lewis.  Meanwhile Taron Johnson was lost in game 11.  And again, the pass rush was deficient.

 

Wallace will be pencilled-in as the #2 CB.  Gaines may push him, but with Gaines' injury history, making him an every-down starter versus just having him play sparingly IMHO would not be the best way to go. 

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