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YoloinOhio

Jets trade Darron Lee to Chiefs

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Cue @ScottLaw with some iteration of “McD is no better” in 3...2...1...

Could've sworn McD and company traded Darues, a former all pro DT for a 6th round pick midseason.... but carry on. 👍🏻

22 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Lee was never a difference maker or game-changer against the Bills. For that reason alone I will miss him. Too small to be effective as a run defender and average in pass coverage. 

Like Lawson he was overdrafted.

 

This. One of the reasons Mccagnon is out in NY. 

 

Edited by ScottLaw
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8 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

That 4th was involved in moving up to nab Dawson Knox. 

The 5th he got for McCarron was used to get Ford.

He got a 2nd for Sammy Watkins , 3rd for Darby which basically got us Allen and Edmunds. 

Beane is THE MAN!!

 

And all those great moves got the Bills 6 wins in 2018.  If the team doesn't do significantly better on the field, then Beane will be no better than the duds who preceded him in the Bills FO.

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46 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

So, Ian, if I can call you Ian, what the ***** exactly constitutes first round talent? This is the most idiotic of twits.

Is it ‘EEE-in’, or is it ‘EEN’?  🤔

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This will end up like the Corey Coleman trade.  Won't be shocked if Lee doesn't even make team.  He is just too small to play the type of game he has been coached up to do his whole life.  He is essentially a 3rd safety (Mark Barron), but still thinks he is a Ray Lewis LB.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

He was played out of position by the Jets.  As indicated in another post, he could be a weak side backer in a 4-3.  It looks like Gase is pulling the same thing he did in Miami.  Get rid of good players that he doesn't like and put inferior talent on the field.  Just another sad chapter in Jets football.

 

How is this different from McDermott and Beane?   McDermott didn't like Watkins, and he was traded and replaced by Benjamin.  McDermott didn't like Dareus, and he was replaced, eventually, by Loutelei.   McDermott didn't like Taylor, and McDermott attempted to replace him with Peterman in 2017, and then did see him replaced by Peterman in 2018.  While there wasn't any indication that McDermott didn't like Glenn per se, certainly he was deemed expendable and was replaced by Dawkins who played poorly enough as a sophomore that there's realistic questions about his role on the 2019 team.

 

I don't think that Bills fans should laugh too much at the Jests and their fans because the Bills have done nothing in 20 years to demonstrate that they are in any way a competent organization. The currrent Bills regime hasn't yet proven their competence either.

Edited by SoTier
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SoTier said:

And all those great moves got the Bills 6 wins in 2018.  If the team doesn't do significantly better on the field, then Beane will be no better than the duds who preceded him in the Bills FO.

 

No, they didn't get the Bills 6 wins.  What got them 6 wins was clearing cap space and having little on offense.

Edited by Doc
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6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How is this different from McDermott and Beane?   McDermott didn't like Watkins, and he was traded and replaced by Benjamin.  McDermott didn't like Dareus, and he was replaced, eventually, by Loutelei.   McDermott didn't like Taylor, and McDermott attempted to replace him with Peterman in 2017, and then did see him replaced by Peterman in 2018.  While there wasn't any indication that McDermott didn't like Glenn per se, certainly he was deemed expendable and was replaced by Dawkins who played poorly enough as a sophomore that there's realistic questions about his role on the 2019 team.

 

I don't think that Bills fans should laugh too much at the Jests and their fans because the Bills have done nothing in 20 years to demonstrate that they are in any way a competent organization. The currrent Bills regime hasn't yet proven their competence either.

What?

 

Beane is a top 5 GM. I read it here. 

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I wouldn't have minded Buffalo giving up a 6th for Lee, as a back up and special team player, he could have brought a bit of a nastiness to the D and ST.

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19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, they didn't get the Bills 6 wins.  What got them 6 wins was clearing cap space and having little on offense.

 

Yada yada.  The Bills have been blaming the salary cap for their on-field woes  -- and their fans have been accepting that excuse -- for twenty years.  You can continue to buy it if you want, but I'm no longer buying the BS the Bills are selling.  Either they produce on the field or McDermott and Beane deserve to go the way of all the other failed Bills HCs and GMs over the last twenty years.   I'm not going to lionize McDermott and Beane for drafting Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford or any of the other youngsters until those players prove themselves on the field, either.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, NewCastleFanBills said:

I wouldn't have minded Buffalo giving up a 6th for Lee, as a back up and special team player, he could have brought a bit of a nastiness to the D and ST.

He’s soft. I don’t think he’s the type of player who brings that. I also don’t think Gase would trade him in the division if he had another option. 

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Just now, SoTier said:

Yada yada.  The Bills have been blaming the salary cap for their on-field woes  -- and their fans have been accepting that excuse -- for twenty years.  You can continue to buy it if you want, but I'm no longer buying the BS the Bills are selling.  Either they produce on the field or McDermott and Beane deserve to go the way of all the other failed Bills HCs and GMs over the last twenty years.   I'm not going to lionize McDermott and Beane for drafting Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford or any of the other youngsters until those players prove themselves on the field, either.

 

You sound miserable.  Why bother subjecting yourself to this?

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3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 Better than Milano? If you want him as a backup, you are giving up a 5th for a backup who would be a one year rental because he’s a FA this year. Then there his drug problem. I wouldn’t go near him if I’m the Bills. I think the chiefs actually need him to start (until he’s suspended again)


Better than? Nope. I just feel the Bills have abhorrent depth at linebacker, even after the drafting of Joseph. With our defense employing fast, undersized guys at the position, injuries are always a concern to me.

I also feel that Darron Lee is exactly the type of linebacker, in terms of playing style and athletic traits, that McDermott could make highly effective. He could back up all three spots. I suppose, if all goes well, that that's what Joseph could do, as well. Here's hoping Joseph turns into a real player.

At the end of the day, McDermott/Beane seem to be the type that like to bet on high round, athletic talent that were misused/underused. If given the chance, I bet they could've turned Lee into a productive player. 

In any case, I wonder if Lee's addition and the switch to a 4-3 defense in KC means they release Ragland.

 

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12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Gase wastes no time. Lee definitively not his type. 

 

Why do I feel Beane is currently scrutinizing a list of the Jets player personnel to see if there are any other guys he could at fire sale?

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12 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

What a MESS their 2016 draft was:

 

1st rounder – Traded for a 6th
2nd rounder – Traded for a conditional 7th (TBD)

To be fair, our 2016 draft is pretty much a nothingburger too

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Logic said:


Better than? Nope. I just feel the Bills have abhorrent depth at linebacker, even after the drafting of Joseph. With our defense employing fast, undersized guys at the position, injuries are always a concern to me.

I also feel that Darron Lee is exactly the type of linebacker, in terms of playing style and athletic traits, that McDermott could make highly effective. He could back up all three spots. I suppose, if all goes well, that that's what Joseph could do, as well. Here's hoping Joseph turns into a real player.

At the end of the day, McDermott/Beane seem to be the type that like to bet on high round, athletic talent that were misused/underused. If given the chance, I bet they could've turned Lee into a productive player. 

In any case, I wonder if Lee's addition and the switch to a 4-3 defense in KC means they release Ragland.

 

I would take Joseph all day over Lee, jmo. Plus a 5th for a backup who will be gone next year is a waste of an asset. I guess if he became good they would pay him,  but not sure how much he would play. He’s not really a McD type. 

Edited by YoloinOhio

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2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

And all those great moves got the Bills 6 wins in 2018.  If the team doesn't do significantly better on the field, then Beane will be no better than the duds who preceded him in the Bills FO.

Well even as a very optimistic fan , I knew deep down last year would be rough. We lead the league in dead cap by like 30 mil compared to the next team but we got alot of young guys playing time. The vision was always that we'd start really being a force in the upcoming season and we're built for long term success because these moves. 

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2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What?

 

Beane is a top 5 GM. I read it here. 

 

Are you and this guy the same person or just like uhh...spending time together?

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1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Yada yada.  The Bills have been blaming the salary cap for their on-field woes  -- and their fans have been accepting that excuse -- for twenty years.  You can continue to buy it if you want, but I'm no longer buying the BS the Bills are selling.  Either they produce on the field or McDermott and Beane deserve to go the way of all the other failed Bills HCs and GMs over the last twenty years.   I'm not going to lionize McDermott and Beane for drafting Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford or any of the other youngsters until those players prove themselves on the field, either.

 

 

 

I don’t have any issue with a fan adopting a “show me” attitude.  That’s where I stand.  But you can’t blame the failures of past regimes on this one.  You can question their moves, including the salary cap/player purge, their selections, etc. but only the ones they’re actually responsible for - and it’s only fair to take into consideration the circumstances they inherited.  Personally I haven’t loved all of their moves (but I have loved some of them), but there does seem to be a plan being executed (even if I haven’t liked parts of it).  How about starting with giving them credit for the moves you think are good?

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18 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

To be fair, our 2016 draft is pretty much a nothingburger too

 

I can't argue from our current team POV, but it has to be viewed against the drumbeat of "regime and scheme change"

Through last season anyway, 4 of the guys had shown they could play in the NFL, their talents just weren't a good match (at all) for McDermott's scheme.

 

The overall success rate of guys drafted in the first 3 rounds is something like 30-35%, where success means "a guy who can play in the NFL", not a star.

As of right now, Washington is still looking for NFL work (or maybe not looking for NFL work?), and Kevon Seymour is a question after he spent last season on IR.

But Ragland and Lawson are still playing, Ragland for a contender.  2/3 for the first 3 rounds is good.

 

Our problem on the Bills is that due to constant regime change and (in my opinion) poor roster management of the guys who do prove out, we're constantly fielding unrealistic expectations for how many of our draftees will contribute and how much they'll contribute.  We've expected starters and stars out of the first 3 rounds, and from their first season, because that's what we've needed.  But that usually doesn't happen.

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1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

You sound miserable.  Why bother subjecting yourself to this?

 

Great, great question.  A lot of Bills "fans" seem to want people to talk them out of being mad at the Bills...hugely attention seeking/needy.

28 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Are you and this guy the same person or just like uhh...spending time together?

 

Same person.  Real name:  Mike Schopp.

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1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

To be fair, our 2016 draft is pretty much a nothingburger too

 

.......and that is why that GM is no longer with them.

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1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

To be fair, our 2016 draft is pretty much a nothingburger too

 

which may be why the GM from 2016 is not with the Bills either?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I don’t have any issue with a fan adopting a “show me” attitude.  That’s where I stand.  But you can’t blame the failures of past regimes on this one.  You can question their moves, including the salary cap/player purge, their selections, etc. but only the ones they’re actually responsible for - and it’s only fair to take into consideration the circumstances they inherited.  Personally I haven’t loved all of their moves (but I have loved some of them), but there does seem to be a plan being executed (even if I haven’t liked parts of it).  How about starting with giving them credit for the moves you think are good?

They've gotten some nice compensation back for a lot of trades. Tre White is a stud, nice finds with Hyde and Poyer and I really like how Allen and Foster played the last 6 games or so of the season.

 

Still a lot of question marks on those picks they got for the players they traded away. Their offensive FA moves last year all bombed, and their managing of the most important position in the sport was awful. 

 

The good has basically been clear cap space and get good draft pick compensation for a few players.... what they've done with the compensation and cap space is still yet to be played out. This year will tell a lot.

Edited by ScottLaw
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4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

How is this different from McDermott and Beane?   McDermott didn't like Watkins, and he was traded and replaced by Benjamin.  McDermott didn't like Dareus, and he was replaced, eventually, by Loutelei.   McDermott didn't like Taylor, and McDermott attempted to replace him with Peterman in 2017, and then did see him replaced by Peterman in 2018.  While there wasn't any indication that McDermott didn't like Glenn per se, certainly he was deemed expendable and was replaced by Dawkins who played poorly enough as a sophomore that there's realistic questions about his role on the 2019 team.

 

I don't think that Bills fans should laugh too much at the Jests and their fans because the Bills have done nothing in 20 years to demonstrate that they are in any way a competent organization. The currrent Bills regime hasn't yet proven their competence either.

I agree that Bills fans should not be laughing too much. because our past results have not been good either.  I think the Jets situation is a bit different.  Watkins was truly a bust by most accounts. He wasn't durable and was not worth the price.  It was the right decision to let him walk.  He has done very little with the Rams or the Chiefs.  He was a good young guy but missed too many games.  Cordy Glenn had injury issues as well and is on the downward slope of his career.  Cordy was a high priced guy that couldn't be depended upon to be on the field.  He was hurt a lot. He didn't exactly tear it up in Cincinnati.  Dareus was an overpaid, under performing player.  His behavior was a problem.  In Jacksonville, he has been mainly a rotational player but clearly not worth the value of his contract.  The common thread here is there was not enough value vs. the salary cost.  Lee doesn't fit this same pattern.  My point was that Gase has a history of having bad relationships within an organization (got him fired in Miami) and got rid of decent players for less than good reasons.  Furthermore, Gase is alleged to have made comments that Bell and Mosley aren't worth the value of their contracts.  Not the way to start building a working relationship with the guys that are likely to be the cornerstones and leaders of the offense and defense.  The Jets seem to be mired in this kind of crap frequently.  It goes beyond just having a bad team like previous Bills teams.

 

 

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