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OldTimeAFLGuy

Duke Williams-" I Can Play If I Stay Out Of Trouble"

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1 minute ago, Boca BIlls said:

I thought Sills was that guy....

Ha. Nice. I think Sills is that OTHER guy.

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22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, it's absolutely rose colored.  Maybe he just can't do it.   But the picture of the guy is very clear:  if there is any way, any way at all that he CAN do it, he WILL.   This is one determined dude.  May not be good enough, may screw up, may not make it for any number of reasons.  But this is second-round talent with new-found determination to succeed that has stayed on track for two years.   

If he makes it, he's beating out Zay.  Zay's not safe.   It sounds like this guy is as good or better than Zay at everything.   Definitely at making the big, contested catch.  But also route running, runs after catch, blocking.  He's a tough dude in all aspects of the game, and that's something we never say about Zay.  

I wear glasses that have rose colored prescription lenses.
Very positive about the Team in general. applies to Williams as well

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20 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

I thought Sills was that guy....

there are more than One of "that guy " to follow in camp.

Nice Bills have competition at so many positions this year.
O line 

 WR TE RB
D line and CB as well.

going to to be a very active board when OTAs and camp begin  : )

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1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

I thought Sills was that guy....

 

We'll have That Guy Twins at wideout this camp - Sills and Williams

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1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I wear glasses that have rose colored prescription lenses.
Very positive about the Team in general. applies to Williams as well

 

I did for years.  Then I went a long stretch without those glasses (rightfully so).  Since we drafted Josh Allen, I'm happy that I've gotten my rose colored prescription lenses back!

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23 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, it's absolutely rose colored.  Maybe he just can't do it.   But the picture of the guy is very clear:  if there is any way, any way at all that he CAN do it, he WILL.   This is one determined dude.  May not be good enough, may screw up, may not make it for any number of reasons.  But this is second-round talent with new-found determination to succeed that has stayed on track for two years.   

If he makes it, he's beating out Zay.  Zay's not safe.   It sounds like this guy is as good or better than Zay at everything.   Definitely at making the big, contested catch.  But also route running, runs after catch, blocking.  He's a tough dude in all aspects of the game, and that's something we never say about Zay.  

 

I agree with your initial assessment: you absolutely got the rose-colored glasses on.

 

And that's ok.  Optimism is good.  If we know anything, it's that as Bills fans, we better be optimists or we're bound for the Pit of Misery.

 

As far as the last sentence, maybe that's something you say.  It's not something I say.  Zay has proven he can run routes, make catches, and block in the NFL.  After this guy gets here and shows something, we can decide if he's better at preseason and even then, we won't know if he's better when it's for real.  Until then, Zay did more in college, Zay did more at the combine, and Zay never showed his stuff in the CFL 'cuz Zay stuck with his first NFL team. 

But it's all good.  You Do You.  It's fun to watch, actually.

 

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I did for years.  Then I went a long stretch without those glasses (rightfully so).  Since we drafted Josh Allen, I'm happy that I've gotten my rose colored prescription lenses back!

 

Congratulations!

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4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Troy Vincent

Did he break Jps leg? I remember that kinda but dont remember anything about it being a lesson taught moment. I was a little young i guess

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

They might just trot him out in the red zone to high point the ball in the corner of the end zone.

 

The fade route is probably one of the least efficient redzone calls...

 

He's no Da'rick lol. We've seen this before. I wish him the best, but I'm skeptical. 

Edited by Ol Dirty B

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13 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

The fade route is probably one of the least efficient redzone calls...

 

He's no Da'rick lol. We've seen this before. I wish him the best, but I'm skeptical. 

 

The rules are changed, one of few not favoring offenses - a DB can knock him out of sideline to prevent him WR from landing in bounds.

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"I can play if I stay out of trouble" ??? Wtf, how old is this guy? 12? Just stay out of trouble then you idiot. Ridiculous thing to say at 26.

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19 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

"I can play if I stay out of trouble" ??? Wtf, how old is this guy? 12? Just stay out of trouble then you idiot. Ridiculous thing to say at 26.

 

Reading way too much into it.  

 

The guy got thrown out of college and blew his 1st NFL chance, not through lack of talent, but as a consequence of getting in trouble - trouble a lot of young fellas get into in their late teens/early 20s.  It cost him his chance at millions, just as it sometimes costs other young men flunking out of school, blowing their first job or maybe an arrest record.

 

All he means is that there wasn't previously disproof of his NFL-level abilities, just whether he had a level head to go with them (and now he says he does).

 

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6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Reading way too much into it.  

 

The guy got thrown out of college and blew his 1st NFL chance, not through lack of talent, but as a consequence of getting in trouble - trouble a lot of young fellas get into in their late teens/early 20s.  It cost him his chance at millions, just as it sometimes costs other young men flunking out of school, blowing their first job or maybe an arrest record.

 

All he means is that there wasn't previously disproof of his NFL-level abilities, just whether he had a level head to go with them (and now he says he does).

 

I know his history, but to be 26 now and say "if he can stay out of trouble" seems ridiculous to me. Just prove you can play and stay out of trouble. For him to say 'if' implies he somehow has no control of his actions.

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2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I did for years.  Then I went a long stretch without those glasses (rightfully so).  Since we drafted Josh Allen, I'm happy that I've gotten my rose colored prescription lenses back!

i adjusted my prescription about the same time.
 we shall see how it turns out.
But it sure has taken a turn for the better being a Bills fan.

makes it easier to cheer for Williams and Kids like him.

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this guy is gonna be a stud wr for us.  period. i am so psyched...brown/ duke/ jones/beasely foster and combined with kroft and knox...not to mention shady out of the backfield,

we are gonna be unstoppable.  i'm looking for a big payday this year....and our defense is gonna be badass...

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2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Did he break Jps leg? I remember that kinda but dont remember anything about it being a lesson taught moment. I was a little young i guess

 

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/1866917

 

Buffalo Bills rookie quarterback J.P. Losman broke his left leg during practice Tuesday and will be out indefinitely.

 

The Bills must now decide whether to place Losman on injured reserve, a move that would sideline him for the season.

 

Losman, the second of Buffalo's two first-round picks, was hurt two hours into practice when he was finishing a run up the right side during a two-minute drill. As he was pulling up, cornerback Troy Vincent laid a shoulder into Losman's upper body, knocking him over.

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The two Eskimos fans in my life are hoping every day he returns to Edmonton shortly.

 

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1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

I know his history, but to be 26 now and say "if he can stay out of trouble" seems ridiculous to me. Just prove you can play and stay out of trouble. For him to say 'if' implies he somehow has no control of his actions.

I actually think there is some of that.  That comment makes him sound like an alcoholic - I'm never recovered and I'm fine if I stay on course.  And I don't think it was just the violent episode.  He admits that he kind of quit at the NFL level, and he didn't really know what it would take when he got to Canada.  So I think he's saying that he'll be fine so long as he stays committed.  

 

The reason I think it isn't much of an issue is because he understands now what it takes, and everyone in Canada says he was an unbelievable teammate - really tough competitor, completely dedicated to getting better and winning.   

 

The reason I think it isn't foolish to think he can have an impact is because he has the talent to be thought of as a first or second round pick AND he isn't a rookie coming in with that talent.  He's a guy who's played committed, serious professional football for two years at a very high level.  Yes, it was Canada, but it was serious football and his talent showed.  He learned routes, he learned checks, he learned defenses.   He know HOW to do it.   He has more to learn, but he isn't a rookie.  

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36 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The reason I think it isn't foolish to think he can have an impact is because he has the talent to be thought of as a first or second round pick AND he isn't a rookie coming in with that talent.  He's a guy who's played committed, serious professional football for two years at a very high level.  Yes, it was Canada, but it was serious football and his talent showed.  He learned routes, he learned checks, he learned defenses.   He know HOW to do it.   He has more to learn, but he isn't a rookie.  

 

Well he is not a rookie but we have heard nothing about him being paid more than a rookie so he is a player with more experience than a rookie and who Bills can hold contract on for multiple years to have him develop more.

 

He needed follow rules for players for two years and not all players can.  I imagine they are about the same as it is for US other than beer is its own food group.

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3 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

this guy is gonna be a stud wr for us.  period. i am so psyched...brown/ duke/ jones/beasely foster and combined with kroft and knox...not to mention shady out of the backfield,

we are gonna be unstoppable.  i'm looking for a big payday this year....and our defense is gonna be badass...

That's a lot of optimism. Better than the alternative, for sure.

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Kinda torn because I want Duke Williams and David Sills to make this team. Only room for one I'm assuming.

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On 5/4/2019 at 11:49 AM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....he's the MMA guy right?....

 

Right, he’s the guy fighting in the “three and under class”............lol

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with your initial assessment: you absolutely got the rose-colored glasses on.

 

And that's ok.  Optimism is good.  If we know anything, it's that as Bills fans, we better be optimists or we're bound for the Pit of Misery.

 

As far as the last sentence, maybe that's something you say.  It's not something I say.  Zay has proven he can run routes, make catches, and block in the NFL.  After this guy gets here and shows something, we can decide if he's better at preseason and even then, we won't know if he's better when it's for real.  Until then, Zay did more in college, Zay did more at the combine, and Zay never showed his stuff in the CFL 'cuz Zay stuck with his first NFL team. 

But it's all good.  You Do You.  It's fun to watch, actually.

 

 

Congratulations!

 

Yeah I am not sure what the hate on Jones is on this board...him and Foster both came on pretty strong towards the end of the year last year...from Week 10 on, Jones was 37th in terms of production in the NFL at the WR spot, Foster was top 15...that's pretty damn good considering 3 WR sets are almost the base formation these days which means there are 96 WR's they are up against. Also note that many of these players had 8 games of work while Foster and jones only had 7 to put up their numbers.

 

Receiving Stats since Week 10, sorted by Yards(from Pro Football Reference)

      Receiving
Rk Player Pos Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Ctch% Y/Tgt
1 T.Y. Hilton WR 28 2018 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 73 50 917 18.34 2 68.5% 12.56
2 JuJu Smith-Schuster WR 21 2018 NFL PIT 8 4 4 0 88 58 754 13.00 5 65.9% 8.57
3 Julio Jones WR 29 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 79 53 744 14.04 7 67.1% 9.42
4 Mike Evans WR 25 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 61 39 738 18.92 4 63.9% 12.10
5 Tyreek Hill WR 24 2018 NFL KAN 7 4 3 0 67 39 705 18.08 5 58.2% 10.52
6 Antonio Brown WR 30 2018 NFL PIT 7 3 4 0 78 53 703 13.26 6 67.9% 9.01
7 DeAndre Hopkins WR 26 2018 NFL HTX 7 5 2 0 73 52 678 13.04 4 71.2% 9.29
8 Amari Cooper WR 24 2018 NFL DAL 8 7 1 0 68 48 667 13.90 5 70.6% 9.81
9 Davante Adams WR 25 2018 NFL GNB 7 3 4 0 82 53 656 12.38 6 64.6% 8.00
10 Keenan Allen WR 26 2018 NFL SDG 8 6 2 0 70 50 566 11.32 5 71.4% 8.09
11 Tyler Lockett WR 26 2018 NFL SEA 8 6 2 0 33 29 549 18.93 4 87.9% 16.64
12 Kenny Golladay WR 25 2018 NFL DET 7 2 5 0 71 37 540 14.59 2 52.1% 7.61
13 Julian Edelman WR 32 2018 NFL NWE 7 4 3 0 64 43 528 12.28 4 67.2% 8.25
14 Michael Thomas WR 25 2018 NFL NOR 8 6 2 0 68 55 525 9.55 4 80.9% 7.72
15 Robert Foster WR 24 2018 NFL BUF 7 4 3 0 35 25 511 20.44 3 71.4% 14.60
16 Alshon Jeffery WR 28 2018 NFL PHI 8 5 3 0 48 36 502 13.94 2 75.0% 10.46
17 D.J. Moore WR 21 2018 NFL CAR 8 1 7 0 56 36 491 13.64 1 64.3% 8.77
18 Robert Woods WR 26 2018 NFL RAM 7 5 2 0 56 35 476 13.60 3 62.5% 8.50
19 Allen Robinson WR 25 2018 NFL CHI 7 6 1 0 51 30 469 15.63 2 58.8% 9.20
20 Mohamed Sanu WR 29 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 54 38 469 12.34 1 70.4% 8.69
Rk Player Pos Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Ctch% Y/Tgt
21 Chris Godwin WR 22 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 48 29 462 15.93 3 60.4% 9.63
22 Brandin Cooks WR 25 2018 NFL RAM 7 5 2 0 57 39 447 11.46 2 68.4% 7.84
23 Corey Davis WR 23 2018 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 46 29 440 15.17 3 63.0% 9.57
24 Adam Humphries WR 25 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 55 41 438 10.68 3 74.5% 7.96
25 Stefon Diggs WR 24 2018 NFL MIN 7 3 4 0 64 44 434 9.86 5 68.8% 6.78
26 Adam Thielen WR 28 2018 NFL MIN 7 3 4 0 50 35 426 12.17 2 70.0% 8.52
27 Tyler Boyd WR 23 2018 NFL CIN 6 1 5 0 42 27 408 15.11 2 64.3% 9.71
28 Robby Anderson WR 25 2018 NFL NYJ 6 1 5 0 51 29 406 14.00 3 56.9% 7.96
29 Jarvis Landry WR 25 2018 NFL CLE 7 5 2 0 48 26 398 15.31 2 54.2% 8.29
30 Curtis Samuel WR 22 2018 NFL CAR 8 1 7 0 53 31 388 12.52 3 58.5% 7.32
31 Jordy Nelson WR 33 2018 NFL RAI 7 2 5 0 50 38 386 10.16 0 76.0% 7.72
32 Doug Baldwin WR 30 2018 NFL SEA 7 5 2 0 49 32 382 11.94 5 65.3% 7.80
33 Larry Fitzgerald WR 35 2018 NFL CRD 8 1 7 0 57 35 377 10.77 4 61.4% 6.61
34 Dante Pettis WR 23 2018 NFL SFO 6 2 4 0 37 24 371 15.46 4 64.9% 10.03
35 Nelson Agholor WR 25 2018 NFL PHI 8 5 3 0 36 23 364 15.83 3 63.9% 10.11
36 Calvin Ridley WR 23 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 48 31 358 11.55 3 64.6% 7.46
37 Zay Jones WR 23 2018 NFL BUF 7 4 3 0 54 27 353 13.07 6 50.0% 6.54
38 Josh Doctson WR 25 2018 NFL WAS 8 2 6 0 43 25 342 13.68 1 58.1% 7.95
39 Sterling Shepard WR 25 2018 NFL NYG 8 4 4 0 48 26 330 12.69 2 54.2% 6.88
40 Mike Williams WR 24 2018 NFL SDG 8 6 2 0 34 25 326 13.04 5 73.5% 9.59
Edited by matter2003

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40 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Yeah I am not sure what the hate on Jones is on this board...him and Foster both came on pretty strong towards the end of the year last year...from Week 10 on, Jones was 37th in terms of production in the NFL at the WR spot, Foster was top 15...that's pretty damn good considering 3 WR sets are almost the base formation these days which means there are 96 WR's they are up against. Also note that many of these players had 8 games of work while Foster and jones only had 7 to put up their numbers.

 

Receiving Stats since Week 10, sorted by Yards(from Pro Football Reference)

      Receiving
Rk Player Pos Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Ctch% Y/Tgt
1 T.Y. Hilton WR 28 2018 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 73 50 917 18.34 2 68.5% 12.56
2 JuJu Smith-Schuster WR 21 2018 NFL PIT 8 4 4 0 88 58 754 13.00 5 65.9% 8.57
3 Julio Jones WR 29 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 79 53 744 14.04 7 67.1% 9.42
4 Mike Evans WR 25 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 61 39 738 18.92 4 63.9% 12.10
5 Tyreek Hill WR 24 2018 NFL KAN 7 4 3 0 67 39 705 18.08 5 58.2% 10.52
6 Antonio Brown WR 30 2018 NFL PIT 7 3 4 0 78 53 703 13.26 6 67.9% 9.01
7 DeAndre Hopkins WR 26 2018 NFL HTX 7 5 2 0 73 52 678 13.04 4 71.2% 9.29
8 Amari Cooper WR 24 2018 NFL DAL 8 7 1 0 68 48 667 13.90 5 70.6% 9.81
9 Davante Adams WR 25 2018 NFL GNB 7 3 4 0 82 53 656 12.38 6 64.6% 8.00
10 Keenan Allen WR 26 2018 NFL SDG 8 6 2 0 70 50 566 11.32 5 71.4% 8.09
11 Tyler Lockett WR 26 2018 NFL SEA 8 6 2 0 33 29 549 18.93 4 87.9% 16.64
12 Kenny Golladay WR 25 2018 NFL DET 7 2 5 0 71 37 540 14.59 2 52.1% 7.61
13 Julian Edelman WR 32 2018 NFL NWE 7 4 3 0 64 43 528 12.28 4 67.2% 8.25
14 Michael Thomas WR 25 2018 NFL NOR 8 6 2 0 68 55 525 9.55 4 80.9% 7.72
15 Robert Foster WR 24 2018 NFL BUF 7 4 3 0 35 25 511 20.44 3 71.4% 14.60
16 Alshon Jeffery WR 28 2018 NFL PHI 8 5 3 0 48 36 502 13.94 2 75.0% 10.46
17 D.J. Moore WR 21 2018 NFL CAR 8 1 7 0 56 36 491 13.64 1 64.3% 8.77
18 Robert Woods WR 26 2018 NFL RAM 7 5 2 0 56 35 476 13.60 3 62.5% 8.50
19 Allen Robinson WR 25 2018 NFL CHI 7 6 1 0 51 30 469 15.63 2 58.8% 9.20
20 Mohamed Sanu WR 29 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 54 38 469 12.34 1 70.4% 8.69
Rk Player Pos Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Ctch% Y/Tgt
21 Chris Godwin WR 22 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 48 29 462 15.93 3 60.4% 9.63
22 Brandin Cooks WR 25 2018 NFL RAM 7 5 2 0 57 39 447 11.46 2 68.4% 7.84
23 Corey Davis WR 23 2018 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 46 29 440 15.17 3 63.0% 9.57
24 Adam Humphries WR 25 2018 NFL TAM 8 2 6 0 55 41 438 10.68 3 74.5% 7.96
25 Stefon Diggs WR 24 2018 NFL MIN 7 3 4 0 64 44 434 9.86 5 68.8% 6.78
26 Adam Thielen WR 28 2018 NFL MIN 7 3 4 0 50 35 426 12.17 2 70.0% 8.52
27 Tyler Boyd WR 23 2018 NFL CIN 6 1 5 0 42 27 408 15.11 2 64.3% 9.71
28 Robby Anderson WR 25 2018 NFL NYJ 6 1 5 0 51 29 406 14.00 3 56.9% 7.96
29 Jarvis Landry WR 25 2018 NFL CLE 7 5 2 0 48 26 398 15.31 2 54.2% 8.29
30 Curtis Samuel WR 22 2018 NFL CAR 8 1 7 0 53 31 388 12.52 3 58.5% 7.32
31 Jordy Nelson WR 33 2018 NFL RAI 7 2 5 0 50 38 386 10.16 0 76.0% 7.72
32 Doug Baldwin WR 30 2018 NFL SEA 7 5 2 0 49 32 382 11.94 5 65.3% 7.80
33 Larry Fitzgerald WR 35 2018 NFL CRD 8 1 7 0 57 35 377 10.77 4 61.4% 6.61
34 Dante Pettis WR 23 2018 NFL SFO 6 2 4 0 37 24 371 15.46 4 64.9% 10.03
35 Nelson Agholor WR 25 2018 NFL PHI 8 5 3 0 36 23 364 15.83 3 63.9% 10.11
36 Calvin Ridley WR 23 2018 NFL ATL 8 3 5 0 48 31 358 11.55 3 64.6% 7.46
37 Zay Jones WR 23 2018 NFL BUF 7 4 3 0 54 27 353 13.07 6 50.0% 6.54
38 Josh Doctson WR 25 2018 NFL WAS 8 2 6 0 43 25 342 13.68 1 58.1% 7.95
39 Sterling Shepard WR 25 2018 NFL NYG 8 4 4 0 48 26 330 12.69 2 54.2% 6.88
40 Mike Williams WR 24 2018 NFL SDG 8 6 2 0 34 25 326 13.04 5 73.5% 9.59

 

Thanks for the fact infusion.  I think the above is actually a basis for dissing on Jones.  The "hate" goes something like this:

1) Bills plan to improve WR in FA therefore we signed John Brown and Cole Beasley because we expect them to be better than anything we got on the roster at present.  #1 and #2 WR.

2) Foster had more yards and a higher catch % so Foster > Jones

3) Therefore Jones is at best, the #4 WR on the roster and if any of the new guys like Williams or Sills live up to ther college promise, he's gonna be gone

 

I'm often rightly tagged as being a stats geek - I own to it myself - but I believe this line of thinking emerges from not carefully watching the details of the passing game.  Many of Foster's receptions were "whistle blows, run like hell, catch the ball" affairs.  Many of Zay Jones receptions were much higher degree of difficulty - over the middle, or in traffic.  He didn't get looks as often as he got open, I think reflecting Allen's hesitation to make some of the throws, and many of the balls that came his way were off target, limiting his ability to gain YAC.  It's entirely possible that we'll trade Zay Jones (it would reflect a pattern of WR evaluation by our FO) but if so I think we'll watch him Robert Woods on us.

 

I said this elsewhere but I'll repeat: I think his performace in the first Jets game with Barkley throwing to him was not an accident.  Given a vet NFL QB who can still make the throws and is confident in what he sees to pull the trigger on time, Jones was where he was supposed to be and made the plays.  Jones is a decent blocker, as well.  He doesn't level, but he gets in the way and interferes or clears out space at the 2nd level.  This was under-appreciated because our RB seldom got there last year to take advantage of it.

 

As for John Brown and Cole Beasley, they've hopefully got more left than last preseason's additions of Jeremy Kerley or Terrelle Pryor or the previous preseason's additions of Andre Holmes, Deonte Thompson, and (attempted) addition of Anquan Boldin - but they're in the same age range where maybe they've got it left in the tank, maybe they don't.  I think they were signed because they were the best available guys at the price we were willing to pay, and because McBeane hopes they are professionals who will run their routes consistently and correctly all day every day and set a standard for the other guys.

I don't see anyone as a "shoo in" for a particular role going into camp with the exception of Roberts (whose KR/PR role is clear) and possibly Beasley (who pulled down a relatively large guaranteed contract).  It will depend upon who gets open and catches the ball the most, as well as upon how well Allen has really progressed as a pro QB.

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22 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Yeah I am not sure what the hate on Jones is on this board.

I don't hate him.   I have been a Zay defender since I came to this board.   

 

What I'm saying is that he could be a victim of the process that McBeane are running.  They want competition at all positions, and 2019 is the first year where they have assembled enough players to create competition.   And they are building with a serious eye to the future; that is, personnel decisions are not made strictly on what makes the team better for 2019.  2020 and 2021 are always on their radar.   

 

I don't think Zay's done a lot to stand out.  All he's done is be the best of a pretty bad collection of receivers.   Nobody at any time in 2018 was saying, "Zay's a keeper."  Compare him to Milano, for example.   Milano makes things happen.  Nobody said that about Zay last season.  

 

Zay's problem isn't so much whether he's good enough to make the team in 2019.   He clearly is.   His problem is that he isn't clearly good enough, not yet, to make the team in 2020.  How do I know?  Because McBeane will continue to bring in competition at all positions, including wide receiver.   

 

And his problem is whether this year he can make the top 3 receivers in terms of snaps.   If he isn't in the top 3, he isn't very valuable to the team.   Think about it:  If Brown, Beasley and Foster are top three (IF - I don't know if Foster can make it), then Zay becomes something like the 45th most important guy on a 53-man roster.   Why?   Well, Roberts is more important, because of his kick returning.   So that means in importance to the team, Zay is at best the 5th most important receiver on the roster.  There are 7 or 8 offensive linemen ahead of him, 6 to 8 defensive linemen ahead of him, 4 or 5 linebackers, 6 DBs, a punter, a place kicker, a long snapper, 4 running backs, a couple of special teamers, 3 tight ends.   Your fifth receiver just isn't a very important guy, and there isn't much difference between your fifth and your sixth.  

 

Now think about McBeane.  If Foster becomes their number three, then Zay just isn't a key man on the team.  They're mantra is continuous improvement, so they're looking at Zay and his competition in terms of their potential to improve and become an impact player.   That's when Zay is in trouble, because he just hasn't such much to make anyone think that they HAVE to have him.  It's all about who steps up, and who has the potential to step up.  As much as I like him and root for him, I'm not sure Zay does very well in that competition.  

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13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thanks for the fact infusion.  I think the above is actually a basis for dissing on Jones.  The "hate" goes something like this:

1) Bills plan to improve WR in FA therefore we signed John Brown and Cole Beasley because we expect them to be better than anything we got on the roster at present.  #1 and #2 WR.

2) Foster had more yards and a higher catch % so Foster > Jones

3) Therefore Jones is at best, the #4 WR on the roster and if any of the new guys like Williams or Sills live up to ther college promise, he's gonna be gone

 

I'm often rightly tagged as being a stats geek - I own to it myself - but I believe this line of thinking emerges from not carefully watching the details of the passing game.  Many of Foster's receptions were "whistle blows, run like hell, catch the ball" affairs.  Many of Zay Jones receptions were much higher degree of difficulty - over the middle, or in traffic.  He didn't get looks as often as he got open, I think reflecting Allen's hesitation to make some of the throws, and many of the balls that came his way were off target, limiting his ability to gain YAC.  It's entirely possible that we'll trade Zay Jones (it would reflect a pattern of WR evaluation by our FO) but if so I think we'll watch him Robert Woods on us.

 

I said this elsewhere but I'll repeat: I think his performace in the first Jets game with Barkley throwing to him was not an accident.  Given a vet NFL QB who can still make the throws and is confident in what he sees to pull the trigger on time, Jones was where he was supposed to be and made the plays.  Jones is a decent blocker, as well.  He doesn't level, but he gets in the way and interferes or clears out space at the 2nd level.  This was under-appreciated because our RB seldom got there last year to take advantage of it.

 

As for John Brown and Cole Beasley, they've hopefully got more left than last preseason's additions of Jeremy Kerley or Terrelle Pryor or the previous preseason's additions of Andre Holmes, Deonte Thompson, and (attempted) addition of Anquan Boldin - but they're in the same age range where maybe they've got it left in the tank, maybe they don't.  I think they were signed because they were the best available guys at the price we were willing to pay, and because McBeane hopes they are professionals who will run their routes consistently and correctly all day every day and set a standard for the other guys.

I don't see anyone as a "shoo in" going into camp.  It will depend upon who gets open and catches the ball the most, as well as upon how well Allen has really progressed as a pro QB.

This is good analysis, although I think that several pages back you said Brown, Beasley and Roberts ARE shoo-ins.  Just pointing it out, not arguing about that.   I don't think anyone's guaranteed a slot, but I will be surprised if any of those three don't make it.  

 

You're right about Foster and Jones last season.  As we've said, and I think you agree if Foster makes the next step, he can take the second wideout spot from Zay, leaving Zay #4.  I'm NOT saying Foster will do that, only that he could.   I think Zay's in a real fight for the #3 spot, because the coaches certainly would prefer Foster's speed in the lineup, if he can do the other things he needs to do.  And once Zay falls to 4, he's actually 5 because of Roberts, and the 5th receiver on almost any team just isn't all that important. 

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